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bjorn morkai
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
15
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Posted - 2013.09.12 15:39:00 -
[31] - Quote
I'm not sure how much info you're going to get from the burst HMG. It does this weird thing where it gets more accurate at the end of its firing cycle. Kind of confusing. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2823
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Posted - 2013.09.12 15:40:00 -
[32] - Quote
bjorn morkai wrote:I'm not sure how much info you're going to get from the burst HMG. It does this weird thing where it gets more accurate at the end of its firing cycle. Kind of confusing.
Accuracy doesn't actually affect efficacy though, that's the part I'm grateful for.
Using the SMG as an example - you CAN do damage to someone at 100 meters but that's entirely if you hit them! |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1560
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
I could see DPS really start to matter in a different way if and when we do get PvE. If you have to have something like 1000 DPS to burn something down for a few seconds before its shields immediately come back, that would be crazy hard.
How crazy would it be if you had to alpha through 10000 HP of shield with a 2 second regen of 2500 HP/s just to take out 2000 HP armor. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2824
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:04:00 -
[34] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:I could see DPS really start to matter in a different way if and when we do get PvE. If you have to have something like 1000 DPS to burn something down for a few seconds before its shields immediately come back, that would be crazy hard.
How crazy would it be if you had to alpha through 10000 HP of shield with a 2 second regen of 2500 HP/s just to take out 2000 HP armor.
That'd actually be really awesome o_o |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1578
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:06:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:bjorn morkai wrote:I'm not sure how much info you're going to get from the burst HMG. It does this weird thing where it gets more accurate at the end of its firing cycle. Kind of confusing. Accuracy doesn't actually affect efficacy though, that's the part I'm grateful for. Using the SMG as an example - you CAN do damage to someone at 100 meters but that's entirely if you hit them! ADS is pretty much 100% accurate. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2824
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
ladwar wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:bjorn morkai wrote:I'm not sure how much info you're going to get from the burst HMG. It does this weird thing where it gets more accurate at the end of its firing cycle. Kind of confusing. Accuracy doesn't actually affect efficacy though, that's the part I'm grateful for. Using the SMG as an example - you CAN do damage to someone at 100 meters but that's entirely if you hit them! ADS is pretty much 100% accurate.
You ever tried shooting pixels at 100 meters? O_o;
Was hard enough just putting the retical on a non-moving target, lol. |
Severus Smith
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
332
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:14:00 -
[37] - Quote
Looking at this graph it makes me wish they had weapon type profiles. Where Blasters, Lasers and Ballistic weapons all had different behaviors.
Blasters: high damage potential short but they fall a cliff after their optimal (due to plasma dissipation).
Lasers: build damage potential up to their optimal then flatten to their max range (similar to the laser rifle in the chart) and then fall gradually.
Ballistics: Flat to their optimal then gradual falloff as the bullet loses kinetic energy.
This gives each weapon type a flavor. Blasters do excel in short range but can't hit at far ranges. Lasers don't do so well in short range, excel at moderate ranges and are ok at long ranges. Ballistics do well in short range, well in moderate range and ok at long ranges. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
1580
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:ladwar wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:bjorn morkai wrote:I'm not sure how much info you're going to get from the burst HMG. It does this weird thing where it gets more accurate at the end of its firing cycle. Kind of confusing. Accuracy doesn't actually affect efficacy though, that's the part I'm grateful for. Using the SMG as an example - you CAN do damage to someone at 100 meters but that's entirely if you hit them! ADS is pretty much 100% accurate. You ever tried shooting pixels at 100 meters? O_o; Was hard enough just putting the retical on a non-moving target, lol. yes...and i have made kills at that range with SMGs. not many but made at least 3, but that is not what it is meant for. it should only have about 55m worth of range before it no longer does damage. |
Beren Hurin
Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION
1560
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Posted - 2013.09.12 16:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Severus Smith wrote:Looking at this graph it makes me wish they had weapon type profiles. Where Blasters, Lasers and Ballistic weapons all had different behaviors.
Blasters: high damage potential short but they fall a cliff after their optimal (due to plasma dissipation).
Lasers: build damage potential up to their optimal then flatten to their max range (similar to the laser rifle in the chart) and then fall gradually.
Ballistics: Flat to their optimal then gradual falloff as the bullet loses kinetic energy.
This gives each weapon type a flavor. Blasters do excel in short range but can't hit at far ranges. Lasers don't do so well in short range, excel at moderate ranges and are ok at long ranges. Ballistics do well in short range, well in moderate range and ok at long ranges.
This would make sense, but if the burst is supposed to represent the minmatar combat rifle, you'd think it would be the one getting a bit more range and the AR would be a little shorter than it is. If the minmatar combat rifle is closer range optimal with an earlier drop off it would either have to be higher DPS than AR, making it a different concept than Eve, or it would have to have a very long falloff with a moderate DPS so that it would actually do more damage than plasma well into plasma's falloff. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2839
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Posted - 2013.09.13 00:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Original post now updated to show all HMG variants and Scrambler Rifles.
Enjoy |
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Powerh8er
Norwegian Dust514 Corporation Top Men.
69
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Posted - 2013.09.13 04:17:00 -
[41] - Quote
Im not sure this is correct. I feel my hmg has got better range than the Ar, maybe because most Ar users are good dancers, but not so good at shooting. |
Musta Tornius
Cannonfodder PMC
575
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Posted - 2013.09.13 08:33:00 -
[42] - Quote
Lovely graphs, nice work +1.
Oh and do you mind if I stick the latest graph picture into the range thread? Will give credit of course :) |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2851
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Posted - 2013.09.13 08:35:00 -
[43] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:Im not sure this is correct. I feel my hmg has got better range than the Ar, maybe because most Ar users are good dancers, but not so good at shooting.
This would probably be because your HMG gets more accurate over range =)
Though, it is interesting. I might have to test later to see if that increased accuracy has any effect on efficacy, though I doubt it. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2871
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Posted - 2013.09.13 14:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
Quick update guys - after I finish some studies I'm going to be running tests on the SMG and Scrambler Pistol variants as they are the only ones I don't think I have yet. Stay frosty..! Or... Something. |
Musta Tornius
Cannonfodder PMC
575
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Posted - 2013.09.13 18:00:00 -
[45] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Quick update guys - after I finish some studies I'm going to be running tests on the SMG and Scrambler Pistol variants as they are the only ones I don't think I have yet. Stay frosty..! Or... Something.
Oi, did you miss my question or are you ignoring me? :D
Anyway, do you mind if I link this thread from my range thread? It's got some great info in it. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2899
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Posted - 2013.09.14 05:55:00 -
[46] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Quick update guys - after I finish some studies I'm going to be running tests on the SMG and Scrambler Pistol variants as they are the only ones I don't think I have yet. Stay frosty..! Or... Something. Oi, did you miss my question or are you ignoring me? :D Anyway, do you mind if I link this thread from my range thread? It's got some great info in it.
Sure, absolutely!
Edit: Oh, yeah I just missed it sorry xD |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2013.09.14 10:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
I like the graph ;).
EDIT: Looks to me like ARs could do with a much shorter falloff, especially now that they hit for >20% damage way past that anyway. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2900
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Posted - 2013.09.14 10:20:00 -
[48] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:I like the graph ;).
EDIT: Looks to me like ARs could do with a much shorter falloff, especially now that they hit for >20% damage way past that anyway.
Eh, Assault Scrambler Rifles just need lower damage, imo. |
Canari Elphus
Pro Hic Immortalis
436
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Posted - 2013.09.14 15:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:
This would make sense, but if the burst is supposed to represent the minmatar combat rifle, you'd think it would be the one getting a bit more range and the AR would be a little shorter than it is. If the minmatar combat rifle is closer range optimal with an earlier drop off it would either have to be higher DPS than AR, making it a different concept than Eve, or it would have to have a very long falloff with a moderate DPS so that it would actually do more damage than plasma well into plasma's falloff.
The Minnie CR should have range to it but less ROF. It needs to fit with the playstyle of the suits which are speedy but cant tank as well as others. It needs to support hit-n-run tactics which is all about range right now with hit detection the way it is. I agree that it should have a much more gradual falloff than the AR.
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
2908
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Posted - 2013.09.14 15:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Canari Elphus wrote:Beren Hurin wrote:
This would make sense, but if the burst is supposed to represent the minmatar combat rifle, you'd think it would be the one getting a bit more range and the AR would be a little shorter than it is. If the minmatar combat rifle is closer range optimal with an earlier drop off it would either have to be higher DPS than AR, making it a different concept than Eve, or it would have to have a very long falloff with a moderate DPS so that it would actually do more damage than plasma well into plasma's falloff.
The Minnie CR should have range to it but less ROF. It needs to fit with the playstyle of the suits which are speedy but cant tank as well as others. It needs to support hit-n-run tactics which is all about range right now with hit detection the way it is. I agree that it should have a much more gradual falloff than the AR.
Quite the contrary, I think the Combat Rifle should centralize around high rate of fire and lower damage output.
Now, these numbers aren't correct, I'm just using them as an example because I'm studying at the moment (lol) and can't get on the game but....
If the Burst AR's Damage is 50 and RoF is 10 (per second) than the Combat Rifle's Damage should be 45.45 and RoF as 11
Crude example, I know, but considering that the Assault Rifle and the Assault Scrambler Rifle are so close in the DPS it just makes sense that the Burst AR, the weapon the Gallente use to emulate the Combat Rifle, would also be close. Likewise, the Assault Combat Rifle could have similar DPS and performance as the Assault Rifle.
Just the general theme of things it looks like. I'd honestly prefer it if the weapons were more unique, with the Combat Rifle having less overall DPS but slightly longer range with a faster fire rate - kind of like a suped up SMG |
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Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
10858
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Posted - 2013.11.29 19:20:00 -
[51] - Quote
Nice chart.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Electronics =// Unlocked
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. Renegade Alliance
3968
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Posted - 2013.11.29 19:25:00 -
[52] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nice chart.
Thread got necroed O_o;
Have to update it (eventually) with the 1.7 changes/new content.
Fix the Frames, Fix the game
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M Zwei
Nyain San Renegade Alliance
14
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Posted - 2014.01.01 09:39:00 -
[53] - Quote
waiting for 1.7 new graphs :) |
Martyr Saboteur
Amarrtyrs
116
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Posted - 2014.01.01 10:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
M Zwei wrote:waiting for 1.7 new graphs :) He's going to need more colors...Perhaps he should start using patterns as well?
ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQTSTALLION... I AM THE STALLION
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Shruikan Iceeye
0uter.Heaven
137
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Posted - 2014.01.01 11:06:00 -
[55] - Quote
The Tac AR is really that effective at 90 m? Damn
That Pretty Motherfucker
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CommanderBolt
ACME SPECIAL FORCES
523
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Posted - 2014.01.01 11:16:00 -
[56] - Quote
Hey man I forgot you did those graphs a while back. The HMG update is awesome.
Is there any chance you can add to the graph the new CR and RR's? Also I offer to help get you an armour graph, you could use me as a static target while someone else keeps my shields down while you test weapons?
Oh btw - Headshot damage % for shields and armour are also pretty cool. |
Bunny Demon
Scions of Athra
52
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Posted - 2014.01.01 11:17:00 -
[57] - Quote
I believe that the ScR has a longer ranger than the TAR but the graph says it's lower
Amarr logi ftw :D
(Also...ScR is pretty good)
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Mortedeamor
1163
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Posted - 2014.01.01 11:20:00 -
[58] - Quote
show me a video where the lr has prime effect at 120m or it didnt happen at 94m yes 120m ,...no
why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
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Mortedeamor
1163
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Posted - 2014.01.01 11:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
this has real lr ranges http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.png
never mind on my prior post ..now can u overlap and add the rr so we can watch how and why lr is extinct
why use suits when ccp gave us nice shiny op as hell tanks that cost next to nothing
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Borne Velvalor
Endless Hatred
1966
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Posted - 2014.01.01 11:37:00 -
[60] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:this has real lr ranges http://i.imgur.com/krRr5EZ.pngnever mind on my prior post ..now can u overlap and add the rr so we can watch how and why lr is extinct Efficacy is only half the picture when you're dealing half the DPS before damage build up.
Many suits I've worn, many burdens I've borne, for the oaths I've sworn.
Panda.
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