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Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
727
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 19:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've been experimenting with the active scanner (it's ok. It won't be replacing my RE's) and I found some annoyances with it.
1) You have to have it out to use it: As an assault, I want my gun to be out 99% of the time. I would also like to know where the enemies are. So for instance, I'm trying to capture the only enemy point left. Obviously, there will be quite a few enemies there. Assaulting the point will be a little tougher without knowing who is where and where is what. It would be very useful for me to be able to have scans on a point while still being able to shoot people.
2) Only being able to scan in front of me: I know a person can just turn around a few times and get a full 360 view, but that takes too much time. I would like to place something down and go. Not pick it out turn around switch it back and THEN go.
So what's the solution? A Scan beacon. A droppable little capsule that can stick to side surfaces. You could argue that the Active scanner is a "logi" equipment, but here's something more "Assault Friendly"
STATS I am away from the game now so the stats will mostly be words not numbers. If you guys find anything I failed to list and/or sounds completely OP/UP, list some suggestions below.
Slot- Equipment
Cost- More than the Active scanner. (Can't really give any numbers. But not too crazy expensive) Give it some disadvantages to it's sister. as well as advantages.
PG/CPU- This one I have no clue about. Maybe you guys can put some ideas below??
Scan radius- This should be less than the active scanner, but this should be a 360 degree scan. Maybe a radius of 25-50m?
Pulse Interval I didn't mention above that the scans should be in pulses instead of one ongoing scan. A pulse interval every 3 seconds. Lasting for 120 seconds.
PROS: - A drop and go item - Better for assaults - 360 degree scan - Long lasting
CONS: - Cost more than the active scanner. (Now that I saw this, maybe it can be called the passive scanner - Less scan radius - In pulses so there will be a short time where your scans aren't visible. - Limited. Unlike the active scanner - Can be scanned by other types of scanners. So it can pulse on your radar to tell you where it is. Making it available to destroy if it causes too much trouble
Like I said before. If you guys find anything I failed to list and/or sounds completely OP/UP, list some suggestions below. |
Dominus Fatali
Nox Aeterna Security
203
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 20:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
I really like this idea. I think it would be fairly balanced if it only lasted a certain period of time, based on the level, gave the usual 'You have been scanned/Scan Prevented' message, and emitted some sort of visual cue when it scans. Perhaps it could function only as a radar, highlighting the enemies on the radar for an extremely brief period of time, just enough that you see them coming before whilst hacking, resupplying, etc.
Example numbers: 60 second time until it autodestructs, scans every 6 seconds, 40 scan precision, 15 m radius. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3146
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
Did you know we already have passive scanning? Probably not, because it's hilariously broken and has been pretty much forever.
Your first point sickens me, by the way. Active scanners are OP as it is atm, wanting to run them without even having to switch is a lolworthy idea. |
Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
729
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Did you know we already have passive scanning? Probably not, because it's hilariously broken and has been pretty much forever.
Your first point sickens me, by the way. Active scanners are OP as it is atm, wanting to run them without even having to switch is a lolworthy idea.
OP? Explain. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
102
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Might be reasonable to have this as sort of a "remote explosive" thing. Except it's a "remote scan" thing. Range and precision increases per skill level. Up to .. 30m?
This might be considered by some to be unreasonable. but personally, I find the field-of-view automatic forward ID (reguardless of your scan range or precision skill) to be EXTREMELY unreasonable. So this is small potatoes compared to that.
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Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
729
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:50:00 -
[6] - Quote
Dominus Fatali wrote:I, highlighting the enemies on the radar for an extremely brief period of time, just enough that you see them coming before whilst hacking, resupplying, etc.
That's the idea I was going for. Just a flash on the radar saying that there are 6 guys there. Knowledge=power.
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Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
729
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 21:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Might be reasonable to have this as sort of a "remote explosive" thing. Except it's a "remote scan" thing. Range and precision increases per skill level. Up to .. 30m?
This might be considered by some to be unreasonable. but personally, I find the field-of-view automatic forward ID (reguardless of your scan range or precision skill) to be EXTREMELY unreasonable. So this is small potatoes compared to that.
Agreed. The Active scanner isn't really my thing. It replaces my REs for something that is useful, but not practical. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
169
|
Posted - 2013.09.11 22:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would like something like this but it does scan forward, and can be planted on walls. If you put it in a corridor it would provide Intel on which direction the enemy is coming from. I'm imagining a tripwire like laser scanner, that if the enemy passes through they would light up on your HUD. This would be very good for defending the research lab I would imagine. |
Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
731
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 00:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:I would like something like this but it does scan forward, and can be planted on walls. If you put it in a corridor it would provide Intel on which direction the enemy is coming from. I'm imagining a tripwire like laser scanner, that if the enemy passes through they would light up on your HUD. This would be very good for defending the research lab I would imagine.
What practicality does it have attacking?
It's a good idea though. It would give you a message saying "Scan tripped" or something like that.
Very good way to use REs "Scan tripped" BOOOM! |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
313
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 01:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
why not in a grenade slot? |
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Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
733
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 02:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
SponkSponkSponk wrote:why not in a grenade slot?
Good Idea. I can use them AND my REs.
In a perfect world. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1026
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 02:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yeah...no...
Scouts are ALREADY suffering the active scanner and you want a passive one?
I admit its a well thought idea,sadly,since the scouts RELY on stealth , the only changce they get to kill you is if they catch you with active scanner on hand.
AS AN ASSAULT,if you are already Rocking a Mid frame + AR and besides you KNOW WHERE EVERY RED DOT IS, pretty much makes you god in DUST.
So i will say no to this idea. |
Shattered Mirage
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
185
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 02:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
****... I really need to catch up on my sleep.
I thought this said Scanner Bacon for a second... I feel like an idiot |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
227
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 03:40:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Did you know we already have passive scanning? Probably not, because it's hilariously broken and has been pretty much forever.
Your first point sickens me, by the way. Active scanners are OP as it is atm, wanting to run them without even having to switch is a lolworthy idea.
its not broken (as in it works), but the range of it is 10 meters unless you increase it by skills / modules.
We already have passive scans, the OP just choose to ignore them in exchange for your dps/ehp potential, and active scanners are for those who wish to make the trade off and provide utility for the team that isn't already served as it is a role on its own.
The Scanner Beacon idea is on par with saying that the AR should also have anti vehicle capabilities because AR scrubs can't be burden with training into SL/PC. |
Ghermard-ol Dizeriois
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 08:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
You know, such item already exists in another game, Ghost Recon Future Soldier - and it's called "Sensor", since it uses X-Rays to pinpoint enemies. They work as grenades and last 2~3 minutes and cannot be destroyed in multiplayer battles (AFAIK).
Now, back to Dust 514, they should definitely replace Locus grenades, but they can be destroyed anytime more than just "expiring" after a bunch of minutes.
Militia beacon: Range 15m 360-¦ / 8 secs pause / 40 accuracy / last 64 secs - you carry 2 of them Standard beacon: Range 15m 360-¦ / 6 secs pause / 45 accuracy / last 60 secs - you carry 3 of them Advanced beacon: Range 20m 360-¦ / 5 secs pause / 45 accuracy / last 70 secs - you carry 3 of them Prototype beacon: Range 25m 360-¦ / 4 secs pause / 50 accuracy / last 80 secs - you carry 3 of them Every scan last 3 seconds
Special models: Advanced "lighthouse": Range 22m 360-¦ / 6 secs / 48 accuracy / last 66 secs - you carry 3 of them It boosts range scan and accuracy but reduces life span and increases delay between scans
Prototype -¦white glint-¦: Range 28m 360-¦ / 5 secs pause / 55 accuracy / last 75 secs Same as above.
Advanced model "third eye": Range 25m 180-¦ / 4 secs pause / 50 accuracy / lasts 70 secs. This model focus only on a 180-¦ scan range, but increases accuracy and lasts longer than similar models.
Prototype model "skyeye": Range 30m 180" / 3 secs pause / 55 accuracy / last 90 secs Same as above. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
103
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Yeah...no...
Scouts are ALREADY suffering the active scanner and you want a passive one?
I admit its a well thought idea,sadly,since the scouts RELY on stealth , .... So i will say no to this idea.
There is a standard dust style arms race with scout stealth. By default, scouts are invisible to the tier 1 scanners. So no "suffering" there. But someone gets an ADV scanner, oh noes! .. well, scout just needs to skill into ADV dampening (and use a module)
BUT.. BUT.. PROTO! yeah, well, arms race to proto dampener.
Yes theres the "supperdooper special" proto scanner. But that thing costs about 50k, plus I'm guessing almost no-one uses it on a regular basis. They're gonna use the quantum, "shows enemies for 25 seconds" version, not the flux one.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
268
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 17:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
I'm all for scanning beacons. More EWAR is better EWAR.
I think there should also be a powerful hand-wielded active dampener that stays active while you're not sprinting to help scouts navigate the new hazards. If the one side has to switch to an equipment to scan down the other, the other should have the option to counter this in the same manner. |
DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
143
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think that a grenade slot item of this type would be great, although, in my dream scout world, it would be something like this...
Slot: Grenade Cost: honestly? we care? CPU/PG: Same as similar tier locus grenades Scan Radius: 5-15m Scan Precision: 46-36 (so the basic has the same precision as a basic scanner, but a proto beacon has the same precision as a advanced scanner)
Works like a proxy mine, but for infantry. You can use this as a early warning system in corridors or on likely avenues of approach. Just it going off would tell you a scout was in the area, even if it didn't see them. It would look like the active scanner on a vehicle going off (if you haven't seen it, looks like the aura around a nano hive, but white and covering a huge area.) |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3155
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:26:00 -
[19] - Quote
Skipper Jones wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Did you know we already have passive scanning? Probably not, because it's hilariously broken and has been pretty much forever.
Your first point sickens me, by the way. Active scanners are OP as it is atm, wanting to run them without even having to switch is a lolworthy idea. OP? Explain.
They're OP because they can pick up such a huge amount so easily. The area covered is gigantic - the degree angle barely matters because you can spin it on the spot. You only need to cover someone for an instant to have the scan apply. Once the scan is applied, there is no way for them to do anything about it. A suitable active scanner will pick up an all-skills maxed scout with three profile dampeners. Some of the higher tier scanners can paint a target for over 20 seconds, with nothing they can do about it.
This completely breaks the stealth mechanics, 100% breaks them. It becomes impossible to sneak up on someone if you're a bright dot on their radar. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
42
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 19:56:00 -
[20] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Did you know we already have passive scanning? Probably not, because it's hilariously broken and has been pretty much forever.
Your first point sickens me, by the way. Active scanners are OP as it is atm, wanting to run them without even having to switch is a lolworthy idea. OP? Explain. They're OP because they can pick up such a huge amount so easily. The area covered is gigantic - the degree angle barely matters because you can spin it on the spot. You only need to cover someone for an instant to have the scan apply. Once the scan is applied, there is no way for them to do anything about it. A suitable active scanner will pick up an all-skills maxed scout with three profile dampeners. Some of the higher tier scanners can paint a target for over 20 seconds, with nothing they can do about it. This completely breaks the stealth mechanics, 100% breaks them. It becomes impossible to sneak up on someone if you're a bright dot on their radar.
QFT. Having to put away your gun for a moment is the only thing that balances the insanity of current active scanners. While more EWAR options would be good, drop-and-forget 360 degree passive scanners are a no-no. |
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1096
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 20:21:00 -
[21] - Quote
Skipper Jones wrote:So I've been experimenting with the active scanner (it's ok. It won't be replacing my RE's) and I found some annoyances with it. 1) You have to have it out to use it: As an assault, I want my gun to be out 99% of the time. I would also like to know where the enemies are. So for instance, I'm trying to capture the only enemy point left. Obviously, there will be quite a few enemies there. Assaulting the point will be a little tougher without knowing who is where and where is what. It would be very useful for me to be able to have scans on a point while still being able to shoot people. 2) Only being able to scan in front of me: I know a person can just turn around a few times and get a full 360 view, but that takes too much time. I would like to place something down and go. Not pick it out turn around switch it back and THEN go. So what's the solution? A Scan beacon. A droppable little capsule that can stick to side surfaces. You could argue that the Active scanner is a "logi" equipment, but here's something more "Assault Friendly" STATS I am away from the game now so the stats will mostly be words not numbers. If you guys find anything I failed to list and/or sounds completely OP/UP, list some suggestions below. Slot- Equipment Cost- More than the Active scanner. (Can't really give any numbers. But not too crazy expensive) Give it some disadvantages to it's sister. as well as advantages. PG/CPU- This one I have no clue about. Maybe you guys can put some ideas below?? Scan radius- This should be less than the active scanner, but this should be a 360 degree scan. Maybe a radius of 25-50m? Pulse Interval I didn't mention above that the scans should be in pulses instead of one ongoing scan. A pulse interval every 3 seconds. Lasting for 120 seconds. PROS: - A drop and go item - Better for assaults - 360 degree scan - Long lasting CONS: - Cost more than the active scanner. (Now that I saw this, maybe it can be called the passive scanner - Less scan radius - In pulses so there will be a short time where your scans aren't visible. - Limited. Unlike the active scanner - Can be scanned by other types of scanners. So it can pulse on your radar to tell you where it is. Making it available to destroy if it causes too much trouble Like I said before. If you guys find anything I failed to list and/or sounds completely OP/UP, list some suggestions below. Sounds badass +1 As long as scout's profile is reduced |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
104
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: A suitable active scanner will pick up an all-skills maxed scout with three profile dampeners. Some of the higher tier scanners can paint a target for over 20 seconds, with nothing they can do about it.
you're trying to prove your point, by being inapproprately vague about details.
There is only ONE, proto level scanner that can do that, and my bet is that almost no-one uses it, because the other proto scanner is more useful 95% of the time. the one that can pick up a fully damped scout, is not the one that paints for 20+ seconds. It only paints for 5 seconds.
Unless you can see someone equipping a logi suit with BOTH scanners? which would mean the suit cost would be roughly 50k for the scanners alone? (the special one, is 30k, all by itself) !
Don't think so
PS; math. Remember that all but the best non-ultimate scanner, scan only to 28db.
An "All skills maxed scout", means scout suit 5, dampening skill 5, and lets say 2 proto dampeners. That means: 45db start. scout suit skill -5% /level = (.95^5) damping skill -2%/level =( .98 ^5) 2x proto dampener -25% = (.75 ^2)
Ao, resulting scan profile of "maxed" scout, would be
45 * .77378 * .903920 * .5625 = 17.704 dB
That's pretty safely below 28dB Even with "only" one proto damper, it should be 23dB
Heck, even with ONE ADV dampener with those skills, it should be 45 * .77378 * .903920 * .80 = 25.179 dB
Other permutations that work:
Scout suit skill @5, damp @3 . Use two basic. (because 1 ADV doesnt cut it) 45 * (.95^5) * ( .98^2) * (.85^2) =24.161
Heck, lets go the other way with skill weights. Scout suit skill @3, damp @5. Use two basic damps. 45 * (.95^3) * ( .98^5) * (.85^2) = 25.15 (amusingly 2xbasic better than 1xproto, since .85^2=.722, which is less than .75) |
Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
738
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Yeah...no...
Scouts are ALREADY suffering the active scanner and you want a passive one?
I admit its a well thought idea,sadly,since the scouts RELY on stealth , the only changce they get to kill you is if they catch you with active scanner on hand.
AS AN ASSAULT,if you are already Rocking a Mid frame + AR and besides you KNOW WHERE EVERY RED DOT IS, pretty much makes you god in DUST.
So i will say no to this idea.
Maybe the scouts/ scout skill can have lower scan detection. Maybe at level 3 scouts are off the radar. |
Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
738
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:26:00 -
[24] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Did you know we already have passive scanning? Probably not, because it's hilariously broken and has been pretty much forever.
Your first point sickens me, by the way. Active scanners are OP as it is atm, wanting to run them without even having to switch is a lolworthy idea. OP? Explain. They're OP because they can pick up such a huge amount so easily. The area covered is gigantic - the degree angle barely matters because you can spin it on the spot. You only need to cover someone for an instant to have the scan apply. Once the scan is applied, there is no way for them to do anything about it. A suitable active scanner will pick up an all-skills maxed scout with three profile dampeners. Some of the higher tier scanners can paint a target for over 20 seconds, with nothing they can do about it. This completely breaks the stealth mechanics, 100% breaks them. It becomes impossible to sneak up on someone if you're a bright dot on their radar.
hmmm. Never thought about it that way. Maybe the Scan beacon can replace the active one?
Just typing out random ideas here. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3161
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: A suitable active scanner will pick up an all-skills maxed scout with three profile dampeners. Some of the higher tier scanners can paint a target for over 20 seconds, with nothing they can do about it.
you're trying to prove your point, by being inapproprately vague about details. There is only ONE, proto level scanner that can do that, and my bet is that almost no-one uses it, because the other proto scanner is more useful 95% of the time. the one that can pick up a fully damped scout, is not the one that paints for 20+ seconds. It only paints for 5 seconds. Unless you can see someone equipping a logi suit with BOTH scanners? which would mean the suit cost would be roughly 50k for the scanners alone? (the special one, is 30k, all by itself) ! Don't think so -snip-
Fair comment. I was too vague on the difference between the focused scanner and the quantum scanner.
Even so, the amount of information the scanner currently provides is staggering. The ability to see enemies through walls and paint them, even for a few seconds so you can see where they're facing and where they are is invaluable - and the scanners can cover such a large area by spinning around.
While you've thoroughly debunked the idea of scouts being particularly vulnerable to scanners, you have to remember that it forces them to fit profile dampeners to avoid them. That gimps the tank, speed, or whatever else the slot would have been used for. Essentially, you're forced to compromise a large amount of fitting versatility to avoid being vulnerable to scanning. That doesn't sound bad, but the end result is that most people are easily scannable, affording a huge advantage to anyone with a scanner. |
Skipper Jones
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
738
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
Is there a way to make this deployable Passive/Scan beacon not OP? I understand that scouts get screwed over with active scanners now. You find him and with the improved hit detection he's dead in a second.
But even then, can these be balanced? If it means giving scouts a lower scan detection. As in LOW. A level 5 scout with scan damping skills shouldn't be popping up on the radar.
I don't know. I don't play as a scout so I can't speak of how bad active scanners are. |
BARDAS
DUST University Ivy League
465
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
As a Scout I would only support this if it completely shows where EVERYONE is friendly and enemy alike to EVERYONE on the map. So it has a negative to use it. While you may know where people are in range everyone else knows exactly where you are while it is active as well. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3163
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Skipper Jones wrote:Is there a way to make this deployable Passive/Scan beacon not OP? I understand that scouts get screwed over with active scanners now. You find him and with the improved hit detection he's dead in a second.
But even then, can these be balanced? If it means giving scouts a lower scan detection. As in LOW. A level 5 scout with scan damping skills shouldn't be popping up on the radar.
I don't know. I don't play as a scout so I can't speak of how bad active scanners are.
It's a nice concept tbh - I'm just a little sore about the active scanner. Perhaps if it only warned you if enemies were in the area and didn't give you a precise location - like flashing red on your minimap when enemies are within a certain radius. Variants could give a general direction or area perhaps. |
Quil Evrything
DUST University Ivy League
110
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 22:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Skipper Jones wrote:Is there a way to make this deployable Passive/Scan beacon not OP? I understand that scouts get screwed over with active scanners now. You find him and with the improved hit detection he's dead in a second.
But even then, can these be balanced? If it means giving scouts a lower scan detection. As in LOW. A level 5 scout with scan damping skills shouldn't be popping up on the radar.
I don't know. I don't play as a scout so I can't speak of how bad active scanners are.
Ill point out that a scout suit,(and even a "light" suit), is invisible to the level 1 scanner out of the box)
A scout, with scout suit skill capped at 5, and dampening skill @5, is invisible to the most popular ADV level scanners. They scan to 36db. The above-mentioned scout has a scan profile of 45 * (.95^5) * (.98 ^5) = 31.x
The most comon scanner in the field, is the A-45 Quantum Active Scanner. It scans to 36dB, and lights up enemies for 16s. And its relatively cheap for 4k.
So, my point being, its still relatively easy for a scout to avoid *most* scanning, by equipping a single dampener, of almost any type. And for dedicate scouts, its even easier. |
DISGRUNTLEDev
Ancient Exiles
144
|
Posted - 2013.09.12 23:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Actually, you only need scout skills to 3 and dampening to 4. That gets you to 35 and some change. |
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