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Monkey MAC
killer taxi company General Tso's Alliance
316
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Posted - 2013.09.09 00:05:00 -
[61] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:SirManBoy wrote:Unless this aim assist is removed or everyone's HP receives some kind of crazy triple buff, the Dust 514 experience and economy is in serious jeopardy. There is no justification for the speed in which players die now and the related costs are far too excessive. I refuse to believe that this was the intended effect because it's way too radical compared the way Dust was before 1.4.
What say you? 1.) there is no "economy" in this game. Theres a play and be rewarded system. Along with a "give money" function. But theres no standing market, therefore the economy isn't at risk...... simply because there isn't one. 2.) This game already has the longest 1v1 battles of any game ive ever played. Aim assist doesn't make people do so much more damage as to warrant a "triple buff" Aim assist in 1.4 simply made the game more tactical and less "whoever strafes better wins" No longer is a 1v1 decided on who can strafe and aim better, but by whomever makes the better positioning decision before the engagement. Which personally I enjoy. And speed isn't useless now either. its just less relevant in a 1v1 strafe fight. Its still excellent for running between objectives.
Or being spotted my mini with less health has better survivability because no one sees me flanking them!! |
Everything Dies
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
66
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Posted - 2013.09.09 00:12:00 -
[62] - Quote
I've noticed quite a few games with one or more players finishing the battle with over 15 deaths...some with over 20. In my opinion, the problem is that the high ROF weapons (AR and SMG) are simply dealing too much damage too quickly; previously, getting the drop on someone was enough to give you an advantage in a duel, but you still had to dance together before one of you was killed. Now? Getting the drop with an AR or SMG virtually assures you of a kill/death before a player can even turn around.
Look no further than the increase in AR/SMG deaths on the kill feeds now. My best guess would be that CCP will either reduce the damage dealt by these weapons or reduce their ROF, as simply buffing armor/shields further would only hurt players that don't use those weapons. That, or else they'll increase the spread of the bullets fired to force the weapons to be used much closer to be effective. |
Minor Treat
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
103
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Posted - 2013.09.09 00:41:00 -
[63] - Quote
Vell0cet wrote:I think CCP could remove the 10% weapon damage buff they gave to all weapons at the launch of uprising. It's nice to see that proto is much less viable in pub matches. I've been arguing for a long time that balancing cost is the best way to keep the freedom to use proto gear when you want (DUST is supposed to be a sandbox after all), but be unable to sustain that play style indefinitely. Managing pricing of cost vs loss is part of the sandbox. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1029
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 01:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Just increase the TTK's probably best done on the weapon side. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2062
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Posted - 2013.09.09 01:25:00 -
[65] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Just increase the TTK's probably best done on the weapon side.
Agreed. TTKs are too low, more likely due to better hit detection than aim assist. But i'm sure AA isn't making TTKs any longer. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1029
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 01:30:00 -
[66] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Just increase the TTK's probably best done on the weapon side. Agreed. TTKs are too low, more likely due to better hit detection than aim assist. But i'm sure AA isn't making TTKs any longer. Yes and HD is probably more important those Duvolles ******* hurt now let alone the Balac's |
Fire9er Greko
Mango and Friends
31
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Posted - 2013.09.09 01:32:00 -
[67] - Quote
I hate people complaining cause they don't kill as much as a sniper FU |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2063
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Posted - 2013.09.09 01:45:00 -
[68] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Just increase the TTK's probably best done on the weapon side. Agreed. TTKs are too low, more likely due to better hit detection than aim assist. But i'm sure AA isn't making TTKs any longer. Yes and HD is probably more important those Duvolles ******* hurt now let alone the Balac's
Yeah... I thought the AR was pretty balanced before myself... but now? Yeah man, that **** is OP. |
Ludvig Enraga
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
457
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 02:20:00 -
[69] - Quote
Marston VC wrote:SirManBoy wrote:Unless this aim assist is removed or everyone's HP receives some kind of crazy triple buff, the Dust 514 experience and economy is in serious jeopardy. There is no justification for the speed in which players die now and the related costs are far too excessive. I refuse to believe that this was the intended effect because it's way too radical compared the way Dust was before 1.4.
What say you? 1.) there is no "economy" in this game. Theres a play and be rewarded system. Along with a "give money" function. But theres no standing market, therefore the economy isn't at risk...... simply because there isn't one. 2.) This game already has the longest 1v1 battles of any game ive ever played. Aim assist doesn't make people do so much more damage as to warrant a "triple buff" Aim assist in 1.4 simply made the game more tactical and less "whoever strafes better wins" No longer is a 1v1 decided on who can strafe and aim better, but by whomever makes the better positioning decision before the engagement. Which personally I enjoy. And speed isn't useless now either. its just less relevant in a 1v1 strafe fight. Its still excellent for running between objectives.
We had a whole class rotating around speed - scouts. 1.4 just canceled that. As plain as that. We used to have UP scouts, now scouts don't count at all anymore. |
Nemo Bluntz
TeamPlayers EoN.
587
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Posted - 2013.09.09 02:22:00 -
[70] - Quote
gabriel login wrote: an you must be a kb / mouse user if you cant kill a person with a mouse you suck.
Haha, go ahead and try to use the mouse. See how super precise it is.
You must be one of those people who talk about things that they haven't experienced it. |
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KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
917
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 02:23:00 -
[71] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:Unless this aim assist is removed or everyone's HP receives some kind of crazy triple buff, the Dust 514 experience and economy is in serious jeopardy. There is no justification for the speed in which players die now and the related costs are far too excessive. I refuse to believe that this was the intended effect because it's way too radical compared the way Dust was before 1.4.
What say you?
I did 5 million in one day (1 million every 3-4 matches). What you QQ about here bro? |
Torneido Achura
The Suicide Kingz
33
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Posted - 2013.09.09 03:44:00 -
[72] - Quote
Strafing is wrong, if you use the "kbm strafing" that is, and any of you who have used such tactic against any DS3 user should feel ashamed and quite frankly I bet you just played Dust to feel like you were big shots, now.. well, now you are target practice mofos, so suck on that.. ahahhaah
*this was for the lulz, nonetheless I'm serious about all of it
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
1036
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 03:48:00 -
[73] - Quote
Torneido Achura wrote:Strafing is wrong, if you use the "kbm strafing" that is, and any of you who have used such tactic against any DS3 user should feel ashamed and quite frankly I bet you just played Dust to feel like you were big shots, now.. well, now you are target practice mofos, so suck on that.. ahahhaah
*this was for the lulz, nonetheless I'm serious about all of it
So what about the trashing of Regen and Speed tanking? |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
685
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 03:50:00 -
[74] - Quote
Thread title is funny. Made me realize...
AA + Hit Detection + Corp Financing = 1.4 is the Death And Taxes update?
How...certain. |
Grief PK
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
56
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Posted - 2013.09.09 03:53:00 -
[75] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:gabriel login wrote:DJINN Marauder wrote:I agree. Ppl die to fast now. You can't strafe as well anymore which ruins what dust was. i hope your jokeing about the strafe thing because if you need that to win an have fun you suck just as much as the guy who made the post. Strafing is an essential part of a tracking FPS, you know, what Dust 514 is supposed to be. It makes fights more interesting than who has the highest EHP and the fastest trigger finger. People don't like strafing because it exposes a weakness that this "modern" FPS generation lacks- aiming. I'm not talking about point, click, shoot but sustained aim and the ability to track a moving target. (Bunch of spoiled brats, back in my day we had to rocket jump to school, over a pit of lava...)
rocket jump <3 ... all the nubs love playing games on the quake engine ... how many of them ever played Quake! IMO I come from the teachings of the Counter Strike world... strafe or die. |
Grief PK
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
56
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 03:55:00 -
[76] - Quote
Torneido Achura wrote:Strafing is wrong, if you use the "kbm strafing" that is, and any of you who have used such tactic against any DS3 user should feel ashamed and quite frankly I bet you just played Dust to feel like you were big shots, now.. well, now you are target practice mofos, so suck on that.. ahahhaah
*this was for the lulz, nonetheless I'm serious about all of it
I want to use this quote 'Strafing is wrong' ... lol zomg lol ... if what you say is true and I play Dust to feel like a big shot ... I thank you for the QQ deposit sir! :) |
SgtDoughnut
M.E.R.C. Elite D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
65
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Posted - 2013.09.09 03:59:00 -
[77] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Killar-12 wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Just increase the TTK's probably best done on the weapon side. Agreed. TTKs are too low, more likely due to better hit detection than aim assist. But i'm sure AA isn't making TTKs any longer. Yes and HD is probably more important those Duvolles ******* hurt now let alone the Balac's Yeah... I thought the AR was pretty balanced before myself... but now? Yeah man, that **** is OP. they need to tone the damage of the AR's back down now that hit detection is working again. They buffed them to try to make them semi useful while hit detection was borked. |
2-Ton Twenty-One
Ancient Exiles
936
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 04:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:Cosgar wrote:I-Shayz-I wrote:Don't need a hp buff, more like a damage reduction nerf
They increased damage by 10% because of bad hit detection and that fixed some things. Now that hit detection is fixed, they need to remove that 10% damage buff. That's just one hot fix we know about because it was documented. Imagine all the little ninja fixes they did between 1.0 and 1.4 uprising. I wouldn't be surprised if they tweaked anything from weapon dispersion to hit boxes to compensate for hit detection and aiming. Your both wrong. The 10% buff was because of the removal of the 10% buff that the Weaponry skill used to provide that was removed at uprising when the whole skill tree was changed. the damage has not been buffed at all. CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:Posting the following info on upcoming changes to weapon damage and HMG balance on behalf of CCP Rement since he's knee deep in making these changes. He will also be answer questions and discussing this topic in this thread as well.
Tl;dr version: GÇó In the next hot-fix weapons will all get a 10% damage increase to compensate for the removal of the Weaponry skill bonus. GÇó HMG damage buffed to 18 HP (including aforementioned 10% increase) and given a 5% dispersion buff. GÇó In the near future, we will address range issues by removing the hard stop that currently takes place at maximum weapon range.
In Chromosome, the Weaponry skill gave an across the board 2% damage bonus to handheld weapons per level. Given the low SP cost of the skill (and the fact that itGÇÖs a pre-req for every weapon in the game) the majority of players would just skill straight to level 5 making the skill pretty pointless. So, in Uprising we removed the skill bonus. The side effect of this, of course, is that time-to-kill has increased.
This, combined with some of the control issues weGÇÖve been seeing, has led to combat feeling worse than it did in Chromosome. We will address this with a hot-fix that gives an across the board 10% increase to all handheld weapon damage to put DPS back to where it was. Additionally, weGÇÖve increased HMG damage and reduced the dispersion penalty when moving by 5% to address issues with the weapon.
The removal of the Sharpshooter skill (which gave bonuses to range) has also highlighted some issues with range in general. Weapon classes need unique range profiles. I doubt anyone would dispute that. And the sharpshooter skill was pushing far too many weapons beyond their intended engagement ranges. While itGÇÖs removal has caused some issues, the SS skill was a crutch and it hid more deep-seated problems with range in the game. It will not be coming back.
Right now, all weapons have an optimal and maximum range. Unfortunately, at its max range the weapon simply stops doing damage. This is bad for a whole host of reasons and weGÇÖll be addressing this with a point release in the near future by giving all weapons an optimal, effective and absolute range. Up to the optimal range weapons will do 100% damage (shield/armor profiles notwithstanding) and then drop off slowly towards their effective range. From effective range out to the absolute range damage will drop noticeably but weapons will still do incidental damage even at extreme ranges.
SO what I said right? the fact that there was hit detection issues in no way affects that damage for pretty much all weapons was kept constant from what it was in Chromosome when hit detection was good. |
Torneido Achura
The Suicide Kingz
33
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 04:29:00 -
[79] - Quote
Grief PK wrote:Torneido Achura wrote:Strafing is wrong, if you use the "kbm strafing" that is, and any of you who have used such tactic against any DS3 user should feel ashamed and quite frankly I bet you just played Dust to feel like you were big shots, now.. well, now you are target practice mofos, so suck on that.. ahahhaah
*this was for the lulz, nonetheless I'm serious about all of it
I want to use this quote 'Strafing is wrong' ... lol zomg lol ... if what you say is true and I play Dust to feel like a big shot ... I thank you for the QQ deposit sir! :)
dear hit***... *facepalm* No, thank you for those tears, didnt you read? the * section, guess you just wanted any reason to QQ
I don't even give a sh** if you use aimbot or not, if you strafe or not, if you go proto, militia or aur, I'm going to kill you at some point |
Grief PK
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
61
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 04:44:00 -
[80] - Quote
Torneido Achura wrote:Grief PK wrote:Torneido Achura wrote:Strafing is wrong, if you use the "kbm strafing" that is, and any of you who have used such tactic against any DS3 user should feel ashamed and quite frankly I bet you just played Dust to feel like you were big shots, now.. well, now you are target practice mofos, so suck on that.. ahahhaah
*this was for the lulz, nonetheless I'm serious about all of it
I want to use this quote 'Strafing is wrong' ... lol zomg lol ... if what you say is true and I play Dust to feel like a big shot ... I thank you for the QQ deposit sir! :) dear hit***... *facepalm* No, thank you for those tears, didnt you read? the * section, guess you just wanted any reason to QQ I don't even give a sh** if you use aimbot or not, if you strafe or not, if you go proto, militia or aur, I'm going to kill you at some point
^ Ok, see you in match ... ? "Well keep the light on for you" |
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KGB Sleep
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State
192
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 04:58:00 -
[81] - Quote
People need to die somewhat fast. If they don't this becomes a game where people can get away from anything, hide and regen.
Already there are 1k HP builds and I'm not talking about heavies. DROPSUITS ARE NOT TANKS.
Play the game for a couple of weeks and see if you can adapt. Proto still trumps most engagements but it isn't invincible, nor should it be. It should just be an edge you use to take critical points or use in important situations. Unfortunately, people have learned to use it for farming and stomping with impunity. Now they cry because they can't bully pubs anymore.
CCP will tweak stuff as needed, so maybe the whiners could stop crying for awhile and start trying to adapt. All I read is threads about people getting owned and crying about it.
Get professional help for your bruised egos.
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Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
147
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Posted - 2013.09.09 07:56:00 -
[82] - Quote
SirManBoy wrote:I can't believe that some of you prefer this drastically different TTK in 1.4. Whole classes have been devalued because of it. Support logis can hardly do their thing without getting obliterated; scouts die almost instantly; and heavies have little to show for their HP advantage because standard and militia ARs rip through them like a knife through warm butter. These maps are too big and this game is too diverse for it to become some Tom Clancy tactical FPS where people instantly wither under fire.
The only people who benefit from this change are cheap fit assault players who now enjoy far too much success thanks to a game mechanic that doesn't require AR users to have any individual skill to slay high HP players.
This is the biggest Problem I see, with 1.4 CCP has removed nearly all of the RPG part. Whats left is only a lobby shooter where neither SP nor equipment really matters.
Right now grinding means nothing as it don't give you a real advantage in survivability. With the combination of a strong aim assist and improved hit detection for most weapons even proto suits and high SP player die in seconds. I don't know if thats rally a good thing sure new players will have an easier time but there will be the moment when they realise that the protosuits means nothing on the battlefield.
With 1.4 CCP simply has devalued SP gain and higher tier gear. IMHO thats a step in the wrong direction if you consider that Dust claims to be more than a fps... |
Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 08:06:00 -
[83] - Quote
being a heavy and having over 1000 EHP and over 10mil SP invested into the heavy class, i feel like its wasted since now that i die in about 2 seconds flat from an exile AR. shields gets torn apart like its paper and armor doesnt last that long enough is there really a point in having a heavy now in this game? a heavy is suppose to be good at CQC but even at CQC an AR user with AA takes me out in 2 seconds.
so basically after 1.4 playing as a heavy doesnt seem so viable now. im running with my skin weave suits since heavies just can't survive anymore with the AA on. We already have it tough before 1.4 but that was still manageable, now after 1.4 not so much |
DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles
1135
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 08:08:00 -
[84] - Quote
Chibi Andy wrote:being a heavy and having over 1000 EHP and over 10mil SP invested into the heavy class, i feel like its wasted since now that i die in about 2 seconds flat from an exile AR. shields gets torn apart like its paper and armor doesnt last that long enough is there really a point in having a heavy now in this game? a heavy is suppose to be good at CQC but even at CQC an AR user with AA takes me out in 2 seconds. so basically after 1.4 playing as a heavy doesnt seem so viable now. im running with my skin weave suits since heavies just can't survive anymore with the AA on. We already have it tough before 1.4 but that was still manageable, now after 1.4 not so much Lets hope heavies and scouts get some love in 1.5/6 |
Cosgar
ParagonX
5033
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Posted - 2013.09.09 08:12:00 -
[85] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:SO what I said right? the fact that there was hit detection issues in no way affects that damage for pretty much all weapons was kept constant from what it was in Chromosome when hit detection was good. We're both kind of half right. The biggest issue was TTK. Because nobody could aim properly and shots weren't registering consistently, the 10% damage was put in to compensate. Uprising was all about making passive skills gear specific than character specific so that your fittings became more powerful instead of just your toon. That's most likely why they got rid of the weaponry skill bonus in the first place. You want 10% damage added to your weapons? Use a complex damage mod. |
Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
487
|
Posted - 2013.09.09 08:17:00 -
[86] - Quote
DJINN Marauder wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:being a heavy and having over 1000 EHP and over 10mil SP invested into the heavy class, i feel like its wasted since now that i die in about 2 seconds flat from an exile AR. shields gets torn apart like its paper and armor doesnt last that long enough is there really a point in having a heavy now in this game? a heavy is suppose to be good at CQC but even at CQC an AR user with AA takes me out in 2 seconds. so basically after 1.4 playing as a heavy doesnt seem so viable now. im running with my skin weave suits since heavies just can't survive anymore with the AA on. We already have it tough before 1.4 but that was still manageable, now after 1.4 not so much Lets hope heavies and scouts get some love in 1.5/6
man the scouts and heavies havnt received any love for some time now, sure there were some buffs here and there but its not enough to keep us going in the long run. and after 1.4 we're bordering extinction for the class |
SirManBoy
Molon Labe. RISE of LEGION
195
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Posted - 2013.09.09 09:30:00 -
[87] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:SirManBoy wrote:I can't believe that some of you prefer this drastically different TTK in 1.4. Whole classes have been devalued because of it. Support logis can hardly do their thing without getting obliterated; scouts die almost instantly; and heavies have little to show for their HP advantage because standard and militia ARs rip through them like a knife through warm butter. These maps are too big and this game is too diverse for it to become some Tom Clancy tactical FPS where people instantly wither under fire.
The only people who benefit from this change are cheap fit assault players who now enjoy far too much success thanks to a game mechanic that doesn't require AR users to have any individual skill to slay high HP players. This is the biggest Problem I see, with 1.4 CCP has removed nearly all of the RPG part. Whats left is only a lobby shooter where neither SP nor equipment really matters. Right now grinding means nothing as it don't give you a real advantage in survivability. With the combination of a strong aim assist and improved hit detection for most weapons even proto suits and high SP player die in seconds. I don't know if thats rally a good thing sure new players will have an easier time but there will be the moment when they realise that the protosuits means nothing on the battlefield. With 1.4 CCP simply has devalued SP gain and higher tier gear. IMHO thats a step in the wrong direction if you consider that Dust claims to be more than a fps...
Exactly. |
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