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Cosgar
ParagonX
4789
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 09:37:00 -
[31] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:And leave people that "don't" want to use the aim-assist in a disadvantage ? What about KB/M users ? I didn't say change the aim-assist, I'm suggesting that we balance around it instead of snowballing hot fixes to problems that have been fixed. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
1106
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 09:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:And leave people that "don't" want to use the aim-assist in a disadvantage ? What about KB/M users ? I didn't say change the aim-assist, I'm suggesting that we balance around it instead of snowballing hot fixes to problems that have been fixed.
If you reduce the damage of weapons, that is only going to benefit people that uses the aim-assist...in fact we should do the opposite, boost the damage of all weapons by 10%, so skills, reflexes, and tactical awareness counts for "something". |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4789
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 09:46:00 -
[33] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:And leave people that "don't" want to use the aim-assist in a disadvantage ? What about KB/M users ? I didn't say change the aim-assist, I'm suggesting that we balance around it instead of snowballing hot fixes to problems that have been fixed. If you reduce the damage of weapons, that is only going to benefit people that uses the aim-assist...in fact we should do the opposite, boost the damage of all weapons by 10%, so skills, reflexes, and tactical awareness counts for "something". Then why have damage mods? Better yet, why have SP, dropsuits, and fittings either? We can all run around with ARs and die to 4 bullets in fast paced, enclosed maps. Sound familiar? |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
340
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 09:56:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:And leave people that "don't" want to use the aim-assist in a disadvantage ? What about KB/M users ? I didn't say change the aim-assist, I'm suggesting that we balance around it instead of snowballing hot fixes to problems that have been fixed. If you reduce the damage of weapons, that is only going to benefit people that uses the aim-assist...in fact we should do the opposite, boost the damage of all weapons by 10%, so skills, reflexes, and tactical awareness counts for "something". Then why have damage mods? Better yet, why have SP, dropsuits, and fittings either? We can all run around with ARs and die to 4 bullets in fast paced, enclosed maps. Sound familiar?
so you can drop shields and stack mods - your choice of setup.
I would actually prefer to see the 2% put back on the skill tree. IMO there is too much levelling up of skills that do nothing
and no we are not dying to 4 bullets. The fact is we have never played this on a LAN so we have no idea what CCPs idea of time to kill is - it doesnt seem that bad to me |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4789
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:Cosgar wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:And leave people that "don't" want to use the aim-assist in a disadvantage ? What about KB/M users ? I didn't say change the aim-assist, I'm suggesting that we balance around it instead of snowballing hot fixes to problems that have been fixed. If you reduce the damage of weapons, that is only going to benefit people that uses the aim-assist...in fact we should do the opposite, boost the damage of all weapons by 10%, so skills, reflexes, and tactical awareness counts for "something". Then why have damage mods? Better yet, why have SP, dropsuits, and fittings either? We can all run around with ARs and die to 4 bullets in fast paced, enclosed maps. Sound familiar? so you can drop shields and stack mods - your choice of setup. I would actually prefer to see the 2% put back on the skill tree. IMO there is too much levelling up of skills that do nothing and no we are not dying to 4 bullets. The fact is we have never played this on a LAN so we have no idea what CCPs idea of time to kill is - it doesnt seem that bad to me Apparently, it's just you and a few others that prefer that twitch playstyle. There's nothing wrong with that preference, but the game needs to accommodate it or have a nice happy medium for other playstyles like we've had in the past. Fittings and character customization should dictate that instead of everyone being forced to conform to one specific way.
Also, if you want more damage, that's what the weapon proficiency skill is for. One of the things Uprising did right was bind passive skills to fittings and not simply to your character. You can have all the SP in the world but you still have to build your suit.
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Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1025
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:27:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:You're missing my point. And you seem to be missing mine.
In Chromosome the 10% bonus was on the Weaponry skill. Aiming was fine in Chromosome and personally I didn't have any trouble with killing anyone. In Uprising they removed that 10% bonus on the Weaponry skill, which would mean that TTK would be increased to more than was intended, so they moved that same 10% bonus to all weapons base damage instead, to keep TTK the same as in Chromosome.
Due to terrible aiming in Uprising and various other reasons, everyone became bullet sponges and TTK was increased because people couldn't hit their targets properly. Now that hit detection and aiming has been at least somewhat improved (aim assist maybe too much) TTK is back at the intended levels.
The 10% bonus to damage shouldn't be removed because we're currently at the intended TTK levels. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4791
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:29:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Cosgar wrote:You're missing my point. And you seem to be missing mine. In Chromosome the 10% bonus was on the Weaponry skill. Aiming was fine in Chromosome and personally I didn't have any trouble with killing anyone. In Uprising they removed that 10% bonus on the Weaponry skill, which would mean that TTK would be increased to more than was intended, so they moved that same 10% bonus to all weapons base damage instead, to keep TTK the same as in Chromosome. Due to terrible aiming in Uprising and various other reasons, everyone became bullet sponges and TTK was increased because people couldn't hit their targets properly. Now that hit detection and aiming has been at least somewhat improved (aim assist maybe too much) TTK is back at the intended levels. The 10% bonus to damage shouldn't be removed because we're currently at the intended TTK levels. I haven't seen anywhere where they've said these are the intended TTK levels. Would you mind posting a link? |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1028
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:33:00 -
[38] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:I haven't seen anywhere where they've said these are the intended TTK levels. Would you mind posting a link? Considering the damage values have been the same ever since December 2011 to now, I think it's a clear indication that what we have now are intended TTK levels. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4791
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:36:00 -
[39] - Quote
Bendtner92 wrote:Cosgar wrote:I haven't seen anywhere where they've said these are the intended TTK levels. Would you mind posting a link? Considering the damage values have been the same ever since December 2011 to now, I think it's a clear indication that what we have now are intended TTK levels. But has someone that actually works on this game stated that these are the optimal TTK levels. I don't want your indication, I want to see something from someone with CCP next to their name stating that. You know about as much as I do on here and the only ones that really know what's going on have a blue tag whenever they post. But at this point, I doubt they know either. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
904
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:44:00 -
[40] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Michael Arck wrote:
Why do that? There is always a way around a situation. Always.
Please teach us your ways, oh Grand l33t master pro.
I get this same response from many people. I'm not some grand master. I do lose. And I do win.
The fact is I don't give up as easily as you. If any lesson needs to be learned is the lesson that the strong will always persevere.
That's something you should have already learned. Instead of trying to be sarcastic, you reveal the lack of your own self fortitude.
FIGHT BACK!!!! |
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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
306
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:xAckie wrote: so you can drop shields and stack mods - your choice of setup.
I would actually prefer to see the 2% put back on the skill tree. IMO there is too much levelling up of skills that do nothing
and no we are not dying to 4 bullets. The fact is we have never played this on a LAN so we have no idea what CCPs idea of time to kill is - it doesnt seem that bad to me
Apparently, it's just you and a few others that prefer that twitch playstyle. There's nothing wrong with that preference, but the game needs to accommodate it or have a nice happy medium for other playstyles like we've had in the past. Fittings and character customization should dictate that instead of everyone being forced to conform to one specific way. Also, if you want more damage, that's what the weapon proficiency skill is for. One of the things Uprising did right was bind passive skills to fittings and not simply to your character. You can have all the SP in the world but you still have to build your suit.
Decrease damage by 15% for all weapons.
Add 1% damage and rate of fire per level to the Weaponry skill.
Remove Weapon Proficiency skills. All Fitting Optimization and Rapid reload skills become children of Weapon Operation skills instead (for now).
Move damage bonus(3% per level) from weapon proficiency skills into the Sidearm- Light Weapon- and Heavy Weapon Operation skills (instead of the fitting bonus).
Move fitting bonus(3% CPU per level) from Sidearm- Light Weapon- and Heavy Weapon Operation skills to the Handheld Weapon Upgrades skill.
Remove Damage Modifier CPU reduction bonus from Handheld Weapon Upgrades.
Change Damage Modifier effect to 1/3/5% damage and rate of fire; CPU cost to 20/35/50.
Change Damage Modifiers to work by technology rather than weapon size: Heat Sink, Gyro Stabilizer, Magnetic Stabilizer and Ballistic Control Unit for Lasers, Projectiles, Hybrids and Missiles respectively.
Should increase TTK a bit and smooth some of the ridiculous advantages in damage (15%) that occur in the Specialization skill tier by moving them to lower tier skills. Damage mods also become slightly more situational, and affect your choice of weapon loadout to some degree. Fewer pointless SP sinks.
Thoughts? |
THE TRAINSPOTTER
ROMANIA Renegades C0VEN
354
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:49:00 -
[42] - Quote
you can turn aim assist off if you dont like it |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
341
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 10:51:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:Cosgar wrote:I haven't seen anywhere where they've said these are the intended TTK levels. Would you mind posting a link? Considering the damage values have been the same ever since December 2011 to now, I think it's a clear indication that what we have now are intended TTK levels. But has someone that actually works on this game stated that these are the optimal TTK levels. I don't want your indication, I want to see something from someone with CCP next to their name stating that. You know about as much as I do on here and the only ones that really know what's going on have a blue tag whenever they post. But at this point, I doubt they know either.
they play this on a LAN - they know the %
the % have not changed in over a year
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Vin Mora
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
124
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 11:06:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:steadyhand amarr wrote:Aim assist is not that strong it does not even have a snap. No I'm sorry but if ur dieing loads learn the freaking concepts of cover y. The game is longer matching you up with newbs your know facing people that can shoot.
Sorry about ur ego.
Pretty much all the aim assits posts iv read are load of rubish to be honest. now everybody can fight so deal with it. If u wanted to Do PC welcome to what matches would have been like people at that level don't miss The problem is that with the new strafing cap and aim assist, nobody misses. I must be nobody because I miss a lot. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4794
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 11:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Cosgar wrote:Bendtner92 wrote:Cosgar wrote:I haven't seen anywhere where they've said these are the intended TTK levels. Would you mind posting a link? Considering the damage values have been the same ever since December 2011 to now, I think it's a clear indication that what we have now are intended TTK levels. But has someone that actually works on this game stated that these are the optimal TTK levels. I don't want your indication, I want to see something from someone with CCP next to their name stating that. You know about as much as I do on here and the only ones that really know what's going on have a blue tag whenever they post. But at this point, I doubt they know either. they play this on a LAN - they know the % the % have not changed in over a year They played this game on a LAN and and nerfed the MD based on how many people in the office were using it.
CCP Remnant wrote:To be perfectly honest, I'm a little baffled at what's happened with the Mass Driver. The reason for the splash and blast range nerf was that in playtests we found the MD to be so effective that at one point almost half the people in the office were using it in battles. Clearly, that's not been the case with Uprising and after getting the engineers to go elbow deep into the code it appears there may be a few reasons beyond dry numbers that are contributing to the MDs underwhelming performance.
One, there appears to be a de-sync between client and server so that (more often than it should) the server and client think the projectile exploded in different places. They're not far off, but enough so that shots you *think* are spot on are off the mark enough to do only minor splash damage. And two, I'm told splash occlusion is getting blocked by a single player character more than it should, contributing to the "randomness" of the damage dealt and the sometimes smudgy feeling of the weapon.
I'm hesitant to rebalance the weapon until we get these issues looked at (which is happening right now). If it doesn't happen on Tranquility, it doesn't count. |
BLACKSTAR AND TSUBAKI
SVER True Blood Public Disorder.
19
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 11:22:00 -
[46] - Quote
yeah **** the ar they made it to where im dieing from like 3 shots from duvoule and 5 from mlt gear ;-; |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
816
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 13:13:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Remove the 10% weapon damage buff on all weapons that was a short term solution to aiming problems in 1.0 and remove the strafing speed cap. Discuss! Agreed as a short-term measure for playability's sake.
Save the real weapon balancing pass for when we have all the racial suits and weapons.
Also, recalibrate Aim Assist with the release of 1.5. Give CCP and us a solid month of data. |
semperfi1999
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
870
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 13:30:00 -
[48] - Quote
Protocake JR wrote:Michael Arck wrote:
Why do that? There is always a way around a situation. Always.
Please teach us your ways, oh Grand l33t master pro.
I love if when people claim there is cover. Seriously what cover? People claim that Dust is supposed to be tactical but cover is so sparse that you spend 80% of your time in game out in the open.....and if you arent then you are camping a single objective (or camping in the redline). |
RydogV
Shadow Company HQ
282
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 13:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Honestly, I have noticed very little difference in aiming. Some people say it is worse. Others say it is 'easy mode'.
I think most people don't even know what the hell they are talking about.
Try and keep up...before 1.4 aiming mechanics were 'meh'...after 1.4 aiming mechanics are 'improved'...doesn't it stand to reason that if you now actually hitting what you are aiming at, that you would kill them more effectively and efficiently?
How the kitten does that translate into 'easy mode'? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4821
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:25:00 -
[50] - Quote
RydogV wrote:Honestly, I have noticed very little difference in aiming. Some people say it is worse. Others say it is 'easy mode'.
I think most people don't even know what the hell they are talking about.
Try and keep up...before 1.4 aiming mechanics were 'meh'...after 1.4 aiming mechanics are 'improved'...doesn't it stand to reason that if you now actually hitting what you are aiming at, that you would kill them more effectively and efficiently?
How the kitten does that translate into 'easy mode'? Depends on what you're using. Aim-assist is meant to compensate for the advantages of M/KB's superior input. But from what I've experienced, the mouse runs off of joystick emulation, making those advantages sparse since you don't get full control over your turn radius like in other games. On top of that, the current DS3 aim-assist overcompensates for hip fire tracking to the point that ADS is near pointless in situations where it's meant to be superior. Add that to the lateral and backwards movement caps that almost eliminate the would be advantages of the lower plate penalties and the hit box variations based on movement and the game has reduced to who has the best reflexes and highest EHP instead of who has the best aim.
As much as people dislike the idea of strafing, it's an essential part of gunplay in a game like this. Maps are too wide open to play to that tactical duck and cover style of play that people are using as an excuse. The game isn't any more tactical than it was last week. People just die a hell of a lot faster to the point that BPO fits are more advantageous than prototype and modules like armor reppers, kin cats, regulators and rechargers/energizers are near pointless.
Then there's the topic of new players. Supposedly, having this lower TTK is supposed to help narrow the gap between new players and veterans? Wasn't matchmaking supposed to resolve that so they don't get forced into matches with more experienced players? All I see now is a contest of who has the fastest reflexes over situational awareness and dynamic fittings. This doesn't help anyone. They went through all the trouble of balancing out the skill tree to the point that your fitting makes your character over how many passives you have and 1.4 has done nothing but eliminate that. There's no diversity, just bricked out suits using their preferred aim-assisted weapon, hoping the other guy dies before them only to get gunned down by the next guy because they're already half dead anyway. And while all this is going on, scouts get boned once again. Even dropships have more survivability than them now and that's saying something. |
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Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
964
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
Some Food for thought the AR's RoF is 12.5 Rounds per second, and basic AR's (no skill) do around 30 Dam an Duv with Prof 5 and 2 complex damage mods is around 51 dam per bullet
Duv base damage 37.5 * 1.15(Prof 5) * 1.17 (complex dam mods) = 50.456 dam
So it's pretty powerful even at base 31 * 12 bullets in 1 second thats 372 Hit points, more than a Breach MD direct hit, more than a light blaster turret in the same period of time, more than plenty of other things in one SECOND! |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
2037
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Remove the 10% weapon damage buff on all weapons that was a short term solution to aiming problems in 1.0 and remove the strafing speed cap. Discuss!
Good idea, +1.
Bring back the strafing speed of 1.3, thus making it easier to break out of the AA magnetism and making AA less useful in CQC engagements.
The hit detection buffs have definitely made weapon damage too high. I would support a reduction to weapon damage for sure.
I think its time we talk about the lack of rifle kick in this game too. It might be time to remove sharpshooter and change AR/SMG/CR operation to dispersion reduction. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4824
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:38:00 -
[53] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Remove the 10% weapon damage buff on all weapons that was a short term solution to aiming problems in 1.0 and remove the strafing speed cap. Discuss! Good idea, +1. Bring back the strafing speed of 1.3, thus making it easier to break out of the AA magnetism and making AA less useful in CQC engagements. The hit detection buffs have definitely made weapon damage too high. I would support a reduction to weapon damage for sure. I think its time we talk about the lack of rifle kick in this game too. It might be time to remove sharpshooter and change AR/SMG/CR operation to dispersion reduction. Either sharpshooter has to go or kick/dispersion needs to be ramped up to Chromosome values again on the AR to limit its long range capabilities. I have 0 SP invested into the AR on my main and my Exile thinks about climbing after the good part of a clip. Clip size might need an adjustment too but one thing at a time. Sweeping changes brought us here, yet again. |
semperfi1999
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
872
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:43:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Remove the 10% weapon damage buff on all weapons that was a short term solution to aiming problems in 1.0 and remove the strafing speed cap. Discuss! Good idea, +1. Bring back the strafing speed of 1.3, thus making it easier to break out of the AA magnetism and making AA less useful in CQC engagements. The hit detection buffs have definitely made weapon damage too high. I would support a reduction to weapon damage for sure. I think its time we talk about the lack of rifle kick in this game too. It might be time to remove sharpshooter and change AR/SMG/CR operation to dispersion reduction. Either sharpshooter has to go or kick/dispersion needs to be ramped up to Chromosome values again on the AR to limit its long range capabilities. I have 0 SP invested into the AR on my main and my Exile thinks about climbing after the good part of a clip. Clip size might need an adjustment too but one thing at a time. Sweeping changes brought us here, yet again.
The ASCR never climbs ever throughout its entire clip. It does start to shake back and forth a little but nothing much. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4824
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:49:00 -
[55] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Remove the 10% weapon damage buff on all weapons that was a short term solution to aiming problems in 1.0 and remove the strafing speed cap. Discuss! Good idea, +1. Bring back the strafing speed of 1.3, thus making it easier to break out of the AA magnetism and making AA less useful in CQC engagements. The hit detection buffs have definitely made weapon damage too high. I would support a reduction to weapon damage for sure. I think its time we talk about the lack of rifle kick in this game too. It might be time to remove sharpshooter and change AR/SMG/CR operation to dispersion reduction. Either sharpshooter has to go or kick/dispersion needs to be ramped up to Chromosome values again on the AR to limit its long range capabilities. I have 0 SP invested into the AR on my main and my Exile thinks about climbing after the good part of a clip. Clip size might need an adjustment too but one thing at a time. Sweeping changes brought us here, yet again. The ASCR never climbs ever throughout its entire clip. It does start to shake back and forth a little but nothing much. I think the ScR is in a good place because of what kind of weapon it actually is. The overheat mechanic and fitting costs are more than enough to balance it out compared to the AR. The only thing I would change is better range for the standard variant and a militia assault version to be included with the Amarr starter fits to promote weapon diversity. |
semperfi1999
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
872
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 15:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:semperfi1999 wrote:Cosgar wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:Cosgar wrote:Remove the 10% weapon damage buff on all weapons that was a short term solution to aiming problems in 1.0 and remove the strafing speed cap. Discuss! Good idea, +1. Bring back the strafing speed of 1.3, thus making it easier to break out of the AA magnetism and making AA less useful in CQC engagements. The hit detection buffs have definitely made weapon damage too high. I would support a reduction to weapon damage for sure. I think its time we talk about the lack of rifle kick in this game too. It might be time to remove sharpshooter and change AR/SMG/CR operation to dispersion reduction. Either sharpshooter has to go or kick/dispersion needs to be ramped up to Chromosome values again on the AR to limit its long range capabilities. I have 0 SP invested into the AR on my main and my Exile thinks about climbing after the good part of a clip. Clip size might need an adjustment too but one thing at a time. Sweeping changes brought us here, yet again. The ASCR never climbs ever throughout its entire clip. It does start to shake back and forth a little but nothing much. I think the ScR is in a good place because of what kind of weapon it actually is. The overheat mechanic and fitting costs are more than enough to balance it out compared to the AR. The only thing I would change is better range for the standard variant and a militia assault version to be included with the Amarr starter fits to promote weapon diversity.
Why would anyone ever spec into AR if they do the changes you suggest then? the ASCR is already better than the AR. If you do those changes the ASCR will absolutely roflpwn the AR. If you want to change the AR then you need to think about changing the scr too. |
Michael Arck
Anubis Prime Syndicate
913
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Let's just hug it out brosef... |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4826
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:06:00 -
[58] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:The ASCR never climbs ever throughout its entire clip. It does start to shake back and forth a little but nothing much. I think the ScR is in a good place because of what kind of weapon it actually is. The overheat mechanic and fitting costs are more than enough to balance it out compared to the AR. The only thing I would change is better range for the standard variant and a militia assault version to be included with the Amarr starter fits to promote weapon diversity. [/quote]
Why would anyone ever spec into AR if they do the changes you suggest then? the ASCR is already better than the AR. If you do those changes the ASCR will absolutely roflpwn the AR. If you want to change the AR then you need to think about changing the scr too.[/quote] I'm only talking about enough range to make the ScR's range superior to the TAC AR since the TAC AR is meant to only emulate it. There's a whole topic on the subject. Adding a militia variant (along with every other weapon) needs to happen as well so that new players can try everything out without having to spend SP. Also, including a full auto racial rifle on each racial starter fit would stop funneling players into just using the AR. |
Jammeh McJam
Robbing The Hood Public Disorder.
32
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:12:00 -
[59] - Quote
defo strafing, idk about the damage buff, I like killing people uber fast |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4833
|
Posted - 2013.09.06 16:39:00 -
[60] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:defo strafing, idk about the damage buff, I like killing people uber fast Then use damage mods. That's why they're there. |
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