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crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1608
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've done a lot testing today... The only aim assiantance is that some weapons now Sloooooow down while hip firing or ADS while over a target.
Other weapons do not have this drag. However I read a lot of people saying that if you stay still your gun will just move to a targets head... So I tested this on bad players with every single weapon. I used a proto gallente scout with proto damps so I wouldn't get spotted and an active scanner.
I would test the aim on target who were not moving and I found the only difference is about a 50% slow down while over the target. This moves even better on a moving target since it seems to match up the speed you are aiming with the speed they are moving. So when a scout was running fast the drag on my aim also seems to be faster so only about a 25% slowdown on my aim when compared to aiming at a still target and moving the aim around him.
However it doesn't readjust your aim towards their head at all... That's a blatant lie people need to stop spreading, it doesn't help with the feedback if it's not real..
On the other hand I have killed people AFTER they go out sight. Meaning they duck behind a wall and my AR would fire off a few more rounds and go THROUGH THE WALL and kill them. Is this part of the hit detection changes? If so it doesn't seem to quite understand cover. I was also killed by an AR twice after getting behind cover for sure.
Final words
Aim assist is nothing more than something that changes the speed/sensitivity while you have the aim over a target. Hip fire and ADS do this, however it more obvious with hip fire. The sensitivity changes based on the speed of the target. Only some weapons have aim assist, and I find it easier to kill people will it off all other other than with the LR in which case I no longer flail the thing wildly all over the place due to it "staying on target" by reducing the effect of the joystick on aiming while over a target.
Mouse users already had this advantage if they were using a mouse with a precision button.
So with it off you just need to learn to ease up on the joystick while over a target to get the same effect. It allows noobs who can only hold the joystick at full tilt nonstop to work the joystick the same way I already do anyways. Honestly I get more kills with it off than on, I don't want something changing my sensitivity while I'm playing without me being in control.
THERE IS NO AIM BOT
However if you at any time stop moving the joystick the aim assist is turned off 100% instantly. |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
163
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agreed. The aim-assist is very subtle and light-weight (I can't even tell if it's on or not).
|
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
181
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thanks for doing some proper testing on it i did not get a chance my self to properly test it i was even starting to wonder was there something i was missing about it but what you observed is pretty much everything i figured it only slows down sensitivity i did not see it tracking for me at all, to be honest this is a far cry from a aim bot.
Also that killing after getting back to cover thing i think it may be due to lag as i have seen it occur in other games i have played the last shot is determined to be a hit but only registers when there is something between you and them. |
Dust Project 514
Pistol King
263
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 18:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
I didn't read all that, because I've barely seen the Assist in action and yes it doesn't work for a lot of weapons.
It's just the detection that I'm noticing.
I may be wrong. I will try using it again, but so far I've only noticed increased hit detection and NOT crazy aim assist, let alone auto aim. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1611
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:Agreed. The aim-assist is very subtle and light-weight (I can't even tell if it's on or not).
It's just way more obvious on weapons with a high RoF since the game basicaly give you free shots with it on. Seems fair I can still speed tank I just need to change direction more offen than last build.
When someone fires at me, I start zig zaging so they still overshoot me and I don't give the aim slow down a chance to help them track me. If anything I'd say the aim assist can make it harder to hit in some cases. Not many, but some.
Also due to the way people bunny hop, bunny hopping is now a death sentence. Think about it, you aim at someone jumping *which already slows them down* the whole tie they are jumping you get 50% sensitivity on an already slower moving target with a clear and set jump path. |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
164
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not to mention, this is exactly how they explained the aim-assist was supposed to work:
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/fine-tuning-aiming-and-controls/ |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1611
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:05:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dust Project 514 wrote:I didn't read all that, because I've barely seen the Assist in action and yes it doesn't work for a lot of weapons.
It's just the detection that I'm noticing.
I may be wrong. I will try using it again, but so far I've only noticed increased hit detection and NOT crazy aim assist, let alone auto aim.
Try reading it. There is no auto aim it's just emulating the slow down button most gaming mice already have. It just makes it easier to make fine ajustments on a moving or still target but you still have to aim and I like having it off, since then I can just, you know, get over my target and then tilt the joystick less to get the same effect.
Most new players find it hard to move the joystick at anything but FULL TILT!!!! So it gives them an advantage compared to before. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
181
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Marc Rime wrote:Agreed. The aim-assist is very subtle and light-weight (I can't even tell if it's on or not).
It's just way more obvious on weapons with a high RoF since the game basicaly give you free shots with it on. Seems fair I can still speed tank I just need to change direction more offen than last build. When someone fires at me, I start zig zaging so they still overshoot me and I don't give the aim slow down a chance to help them track me. If anything I'd say the aim assist can make it harder to hit in some cases. Not many, but some. Also due to the way people bunny hop, bunny hopping is now a death sentence. Think about it, you aim at someone jumping *which already slows them down* the whole tie they are jumping you get 50% sensitivity on an already slower moving target with a clear and set jump path.
You may have a problem with this while zig zaging did work in last build i have tried it a bit in 1.4 and alway found cover to be more effective if you zig zag too often then you cross the stream of now hitdetection correct rounds headed your way do this to many times youll die any way |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1611
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Thanks for doing some proper testing on it i did not get a chance my self to properly test it i was even starting to wonder was there something i was missing about it but what you observed is pretty much everything i figured it only slows down sensitivity i did not see it tracking for me at all, to be honest this is a far cry from a aim bot.
Also that killing after getting back to cover thing i think it may be due to lag as i have seen it occur in other games i have played the last shot is determined to be a hit but only registers when there is something between you and them.
Yeah it did feel like I hit them even though they had already left the spot I was shooting... that might be making people feel like they are getting killed unfairly.. this game has had laggy hit detection before. But at least it's better.
http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/fine-tuning-aiming-and-controls/
Thanks for the link seems what I found is exactly what CCP said was going on. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1611
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Marc Rime wrote:Agreed. The aim-assist is very subtle and light-weight (I can't even tell if it's on or not).
It's just way more obvious on weapons with a high RoF since the game basicaly give you free shots with it on. Seems fair I can still speed tank I just need to change direction more offen than last build. When someone fires at me, I start zig zaging so they still overshoot me and I don't give the aim slow down a chance to help them track me. If anything I'd say the aim assist can make it harder to hit in some cases. Not many, but some. Also due to the way people bunny hop, bunny hopping is now a death sentence. Think about it, you aim at someone jumping *which already slows them down* the whole tie they are jumping you get 50% sensitivity on an already slower moving target with a clear and set jump path. You may have a problem with this while zig zaging did work in last build i have tried it a bit in 1.4 and alway found cover to be more effective if you zig zag too often then you cross the stream of now hitdetection correct rounds headed your way do this to many times youll die any way
Be smart about it, if someone is swinging an HMG zig towards his aim, then in a new direction not back TOWARDS the HMG stream. This throws off the aim assist.
If you zig away and then zag right back in the same direction you came you will get creamed. |
|
Beck Weathers
High-Damage
1
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
This slow down or "sticky" is sickly prominate at mid to long range, if your oponent is just alitle guy in the distance than the area of "sticky" is all you have to aim for for almost ALL your shots to hit them. Making dodging a poor shot imposible. I never had it drift for the head, but I can hip fire my laser in just around the sticky area and the laser will bend tward them hitting them even if im not moving my gun.
As a corp mate today said "I feel like im playing Wanted where our bulets will curve trough the air and hit people around corners"
So yeah just move your gun around till if feels sticky and spray, Aimassist will do the rest for you. |
Zekain K
Expert Intervention Caldari State
340
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
It just needs to be toned down a bit. Maybe reduce it by 10% or something. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
563
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1.
This forum needs more people the OP. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1617
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Beck Weathers wrote:This slow down or "sticky" is sickly prominate at mid to long range, if your oponent is just alitle guy in the distance than the area of "sticky" is all you have to aim for for almost ALL your shots to hit them. Making dodging a poor shot imposible. I never had it drift for the head, but I can hip fire my laser in just around the sticky area and the laser will bend tward them hitting them even if im not moving my gun.
As a corp mate today said "I feel like im playing Wanted where our bulets will curve trough the air and hit people around corners"
So yeah just move your gun around till if feels sticky and spray, Aimassist will do the rest for you.
No it won't, you need to keep it on the target. When you swing back super fast on the joystick to stay on target it slows down. It's easier to figure out where they are now you just feel it slow down and fire that's true.
But nothing is bending, the aim does not auto adjust, you adjust the aim. it's just easier since you don't have to use skill at slowing down the aim manually with lighter input it does the work for you. *I hate it it throws off my aim other than with the laser in which case... The faster the RoF the more the aim assist is effective....
also you turn faster while in ADS now than hipfire. This might be part of the issue too. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
779
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:So I've done a lot testing today... The only aim assiantance is that some weapons now Sloooooow down while hip firing or ADS while over a target.
Other weapons do not have this drag. However I read a lot of people saying that if you stay still your gun will just move to a targets head... So I tested this on bad players with every single weapon. I used a proto gallente scout with proto damps so I wouldn't get spotted and an active scanner.
I would test the aim on target who were not moving and I found the only difference is about a 50% slow down while over the target. This moves even better on a moving target since it seems to match up the speed you are aiming with the speed they are moving. So when a scout was running fast the drag on my aim also seems to be faster so only about a 25% slowdown on my aim when compared to aiming at a still target and moving the aim around him. *note this is why so many scouts like me are getting gunned down, people swing the aim over me and it slows down a bit in the middle while they fire blindly and I get hit more than before by noobs*
However it doesn't readjust your aim towards their head at all... That's a blatant lie people need to stop spreading, it doesn't help with the feedback if it's not real..
On the other hand, a seperate issue I feel concerns aim assist, I have killed people AFTER they go out sight. Meaning they duck behind a wall and my AR would fire off a few more rounds and go THROUGH THE WALL and kill them. Is this part of the hit detection changes? If so it doesn't seem to quite understand cover. I was also killed by an AR twice after getting behind cover for sure.
Final words
Aim assist is nothing more than something that changes the speed/sensitivity while you have the aim over a target. Hip fire and ADS do this, however it more obvious with hip fire. The sensitivity changes based on the speed of the target. Only some weapons have aim assist, and I find it easier to kill people will it off all other other than with the LR in which case I no longer flail the thing wildly all over the place due to it "staying on target" by reducing the effect of the joystick on aiming while over a target.
Mouse users already had this advantage if they were using a mouse with a precision button.
So with it off you just need to learn to ease up on the joystick while over a target to get the same effect. It allows noobs who can only hold the joystick at full tilt nonstop to work the joystick the same way I already do anyways. Honestly I get more kills with it off than on, I don't want something changing my sensitivity while I'm playing without me being in control.
THERE IS NO AIM BOT
However if you at any time stop moving the joystick the aim assist is turned off 100% instantly. There's no other way to say it, bro.
Empiricism rules. You rock.
Thanks for the reasearch. |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
182
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
Yeah i was thinking in a prolonged fight that already started the stream gets closer eventually you got to swithch direction or the aim will be on you i dont know if it works different for scouts iam actually a minmatar assualt so i have adapted to making heavy use of cover to cover hit and runs to kill large slow targets like heavies or even some heavily tanked logies. its particularly fun if you can get away with low shield as that sometimes baits em out into the open making killing them a lot easier as they no longer have cover to recover behind. |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
53
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
The OP seems to be based on evidence based reasoning - I literally just double-checked I was in GD and not still in Corp Forums. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1617
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Zekain K wrote:It just needs to be toned down a bit. Maybe reduce it by 10% or something. See this is what we need to talk about, is instantly halving the speed of a spray and pray player fair?
I propose 20% slow down for the LR 30% slowdown for the AR and HMG 40% slowdown for sidearms?
How does that sound? Instead of 50% slowdown for every weapon balance the aim assist based on weapon type? |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1623
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Yeah i was thinking in a prolonged fight that already started the stream gets closer eventually you got to swithch direction or the aim will be on you i dont know if it works different for scouts iam actually a minmatar assualt so i have adapted to making heavy use of cover to cover hit and runs to kill large slow targets like heavies or even some heavily tanked logies. its particularly fun if you can get away with low shield as that sometimes baits em out into the open making killing them a lot easier as they no longer have cover to recover behind.
Oh one more BIG tip as a scout, dropping out of sprint will completely throw someone off. They will keep holding the joystick thinking *cool my gun slowed down to hit that scout* and then you slow down and they do a 90 degree turn since they aren't expecting YOU to be the one doing the slowing down. Then hit sprint in a new direction 20-40 degrees left or right and get behind cover : )
Also it's nice how when they lose sight of you they can't use the radar anymore to find you |
Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
186
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:30:00 -
[20] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:Yeah i was thinking in a prolonged fight that already started the stream gets closer eventually you got to swithch direction or the aim will be on you i dont know if it works different for scouts iam actually a minmatar assualt so i have adapted to making heavy use of cover to cover hit and runs to kill large slow targets like heavies or even some heavily tanked logies. its particularly fun if you can get away with low shield as that sometimes baits em out into the open making killing them a lot easier as they no longer have cover to recover behind. Oh one more BIG tip as a scout, dropping out of sprint will completely throw someone off. They will keep holding the joystick thinking *cool my gun slowed down to hit that scout* and then you slow down and they do a 90 degree turn since they aren't expecting YOU to be the one doing the slowing down. Then hit sprint in a new direction 20-40 degrees left or right and get behind cover : ) Also it's nice how when they lose sight of you they can't use the radar anymore to find you
Nice sounds good as a tactic i might try out i usually weave a bit but that might work,
The Numbers for reducing sensitivity seem fair to me ive been around for a while so dont get as much out of it as some rookies but all honest this game need stuff like that to improve the quality of fun for them this game is by no means rookie friendly and this is one of those things that will help retain players. Not only that but with more people able to hit all of a sudden the game feels more fun to me for some reason i guess the game just felt to routeen after a while knowing i can survive doing this for x amount of time before running back to cover usually involved running out and trying to take out a few people and move into new cover to recharge. |
|
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
1123
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
People complain that can't hit anything. Then hit detection is improved and target magnetism and adhesion are turned back on and now people complain they are hit too much. I bet CCP could just say they dialed it back and the whining would stop as people chilled out and paid attention to what is happening.
Aim assist might be too strong but the community is prone to extreme exaggeration. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1627
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 19:46:00 -
[22] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:+1.
This forum needs more people the OP.
I've been posting on CCP forums for the past 10 years, I won't leave because too many people post crazy untrue things for me to leave. I hope I've inspired at least a few people to use reason but still get upset when it's justified. |
Dunk Mujunk
RestlessSpirits D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
39
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
The aim assist is much stronger than the OP is letting on. I would recommend the OP perform all his/her test again, but instead of just putting crosshairs on a target, quickly tap the Fire button while doing so.
I am an AR user and i'm just over a month in and approaching 3.5 million SP. From what I have experienced with the new aim assist, as long as I am rapidly tapping the R1 (Fire) Button (as opposed to just holding it) once 2-4 of my rounds hit the enemy my gun begins to "track" the enemy (as long as I keep firing) with ALMOST no input from me. Even if the enemy is strafing or jumping, doesn't matter. Now i'm not saying my crosshair is jumping 85 degrees and locking onto a guys head all by itself. I'm saying that if I open up on a guy, score a few hits, and keep firing, when he goes to strafe or jump as long as I give the right stick a slight bump in the general direction of his movement every, say half second (maybe less, maybe more), my crosshairs stay locked on the guy.
All of this happens over the course of maybe 2 seconds absolute max, not long I know, but an eternity when you are shooting at someone/getting shot at. Maybe i'm just imagining things..........
My average KDR pre patch was probably something like 9/7 or 7/10 or something like that. Yesterday I was hitting 17/7 and 23/14 type KDRs all day. Pre patch I was awful with the AR past medium range, yesterday I was consistently killing clones at looooooong range within 3/4 of a second.
I know they worked on the hit detection also, and that together with the aim assist may be making things seem disproportionately wacky, and maybe my mind is playing tricks on me a little, but i'll say this: Aim Assist (in my opinion) needs to be "turned down" or whatever by at least 50%. I have benefited immensely from the Aim Assist from a statistical point of view, but it's not making me a better player. I know some people could give a **** about being a better player and just want good looking stats, which is fine, but I think some level of required skill needs to be preserved and I feel the current Aim Assist system is overshadowing skill a little to much.
That being said, am I going to have Aim Assist on? You're god damn right I am lol. To powerful to pass up, hopefully the data post patch justifies turning it down.
EDIT: Oh, and I almost exclusively use ADS. I rarely hip fire, and have not done any hip fire testing post patch. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1634
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
^^ post a video showing this, use a webcam to record your hands
Your aim will NOT MOVE without INPUT
This whole nonsense of "just keep firing without using the joystick and your aim will move" doesn't happen it just doesn't.
so your saying your aim will move, a lot, even if you don't touch the joysticks at all...
also please confrim are you moving the joystick a little while firing? is there some combo of moving the joystick slightly while rapidly firing? help me recreate your conditions. |
pyramidhead 420
89th Infantry Division
16
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
wheres lucasaurus to CRY all over this thread? spilled milk here luca, got anything to say? |
Scalesdini
The Surrogates Of War
157
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:^^ post a video showing this, use a webcam to record your hands
Your aim will NOT MOVE without INPUT
This whole nonsense of "just keep firing without using the joystick and your aim will move" doesn't happen it just doesn't.
so your saying your aim will move, a lot, even if you don't touch the joysticks at all...
OP posts proofless thread decrying all who oppose aimbot assist
OP demands poster buy $100+ capture card/box and camera to record sync'd footage to prove otherwise
Legit.
If you think the aimbot assist is fine, you are dumb, bad, inept, and unobservant.
That's all I have to say in this thread. |
crazy space 1
Unkn0wn Killers
1634
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Scalesdini wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:^^ post a video showing this, use a webcam to record your hands
Your aim will NOT MOVE without INPUT
This whole nonsense of "just keep firing without using the joystick and your aim will move" doesn't happen it just doesn't.
so your saying your aim will move, a lot, even if you don't touch the joysticks at all... OP posts proofless thread decrying all who oppose aimbot assist OP demands poster buy $100+ capture card/box and camera to record sync'd footage to prove otherwise Legit. If you think the aimbot assist is fine, you are dumb, bad, inept, and unobservant. That's all I have to say in this thread.
I did post proof... and the devs said it's suppose to work this way. dude you are crazy |
Dunk Mujunk
RestlessSpirits D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
40
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:39:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:You may have a problem with this while zig zaging did work in last build i have tried it a bit in 1.4 and alway found cover to be more effective if you zig zag too often then you cross the stream of now hitdetection correct rounds headed your way do this to many times youll die any way
Yeah from what I've seen so far the emphasis on cover has increased by a massive amount. Best bet for heavy fights seems to be find the front line, find some cover, pop out for a quick second, kill someone, back into cover, ect. The distance between 2 sides in fire fights now feels like it's increased by a few meters, people seem a bit more timid to rush now that everyone is so accurate. All in all the general feel of matches feels like it has changed (at least to me). Not saying it's good or bad, just throwing my 2 cents into the pile. |
Sarducar Kahn
xCosmic Voidx The Superpowers
94
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Using my SG and trying to aim in cqc gets me killed, it's too easy to overcompensate now I look at the target once and aimbot does the rest. Test aim assist at close range hip firing somebody. |
Scalesdini
The Surrogates Of War
157
|
Posted - 2013.09.04 20:42:00 -
[30] - Quote
crazy space 1 wrote:Scalesdini wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:^^ post a video showing this, use a webcam to record your hands
Your aim will NOT MOVE without INPUT
This whole nonsense of "just keep firing without using the joystick and your aim will move" doesn't happen it just doesn't.
so your saying your aim will move, a lot, even if you don't touch the joysticks at all... OP posts proofless thread decrying all who oppose aimbot assist OP demands poster buy $100+ capture card/box and camera to record sync'd footage to prove otherwise Legit. If you think the aimbot assist is fine, you are dumb, bad, inept, and unobservant. That's all I have to say in this thread. I did post proof... and the devs said it's suppose to work this way. dude you are crazy. He could just record it with a phone camera I'm not looking for HD quality I'm trying to figure out whats changed not throw a hissy fit.
You posted text.
I have tested the aimbot assist. It does adjust towards the head, and it does track targets.
See my proof? It's right there. Same as yours. Except when someone disagrees with you, you demand they post not one but two videos, all but calling them a liar. Can you post a video of gameplay footage and a recording of your hands with aim assist proven to be on and prove that it doesn't track targets and adjust for the head? Guessing not, because it does.
As I said
If you think the aimbot assist is fine, you are dumb, bad, inept, and unobservant.
That's all I have to say in this thread |
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