i like everything but shotgun is getting imprved tomorrow. I hope it's good so we get more scout shotties.

The aim assist completely destroys all variety in game. Whoever now has the strongest tank (read: heavy suit) now loses. There is no more skill needed, you don't even need to aim properly. It's a shooter with training wheels now.

There is ZERO reason to play a scout now because you can't evade anymore and scout tanks obviously suck. There is ZERO reason to play an assault because the heavy is simply better. And playing a logi as a KB/M user is pointless because the equipment wheel is totally broken now.

Less variety = bad

As long as aim assist is in game, I feel like playing with an aim bot. I'm going back to Project Zomboid until they remove it...if not, goodbye Dust.

Try taking advantage of the fact there isn't squad shared vision anymore and the scout's stealth. Its really not about avoiding bullets but evading detection.

Just wow.... you assume people don't use battle tactics? yet again another person who thinks taking cover and understanding how the game works, suddenly makes up for computer generated tracking and aiming.

Look people know how to hide behind box's at a certain skill level, they have spent enough time going through the market learning modules and skills. They even know scouts are harder to detect*SHOCKER* and shared vision is off... People even admit hit detection is good now and should be praised.

What they can't come to a consensus on is how strong a toggled "aim for you" button should actually be... Is it to help people who think a computer helping your aim will help you learn and ultimately be better at aiming?... which to anyone who goes through the learning curve knows isn't true.

To be honest every point about Aim assist has already been made through the closed and open beta process of DUST 514. the problem is we have come full circle back to the same issue for the third time, we have already been over this extensively in the past. Its a waste of everyone's time specially when they should of already learned.

Try taking advantage of the fact there isn't squad shared vision anymore and the scout's stealth. Its really not about avoiding bullets but evading detection.

Doesn't change the fact that this essentially removes all skill. It took me weeks to become good at aiming with the scrambler pistol for example...but thanks to the latest patch, EVERYONE is now exactly as good at aiming. Skill doesn't matter anymore.

The "use cover" argument isn't valid either because that argument was valid before the patch as well. "Don't get shot at" is a silly piece of advice, no offense.

Tell me, do you think it's fair that someone just starting at the game now is just as good at aiming as a 1yr veteran? How does CCP intend to motivate players long term? If skill doesn't matter, why should I keep on playing the same maps over and over and over again?

Basically, in a 1vs1 situation, you can't really beat an AR heavy anymore if you run a scout/assault/logi. Whoever has the best tank wins, because damage wise we're all pretty much getting the same damage now (due to hitting the same amount).

This patch essentially stole all long term motivation for me...unless it gets fixed I'm back to Project Zomboid. At least that's not a "training wheel" game.

Last time I checked, getting shot was a failure in any amount of skill you had.

You're bound to get shot at unless you face complete idiots who don't watch their back. Being stealthy shouldn't mean you die the second someone fires more than 2 bullets in your general direction.

Also, a single heavy with a scrambler pistol or AR now murders most players he sees.

Scouts shouldn't rely on glitchy hit detection and rubber banding to dodge bullets. Scouts are paper-thin, so it only goes to show that if they're discovered they should quickly die by just about any weapon. Nobody likes playing the dancing shotgun scout game except possibly the dancing glitchy scout. That just isn't what the role is meant to be though.

So who's fault is it for learning a play style that shouldn't have existed in the first place???

This build is the best build I've played for Dust. Great job CCP!

Last time I checked, getting shot was a failure in any amount of skill you had.

Your logic fails. Hard.

Last time I checked, my heavy suit's job description was to get shot at. In fact, if a heavy is doing it properly, he should have several people shooting at him at any given moment. We have the most hp, the largest hitbox, and the slowest movement speed with the most intimidating weapons. Our job description is literally "walking target - with a huge gun", which saves our squishier blues from taking damage.

The problem with the aimbot assist is that it is too good. When people saw a heavy three days ago, panic set in. We didn't take less damage because we were harder to hit - that 10% reduction to our strafe speed amounts to what, less than half a meter per second? Nor do I believe we were being blessed with much benefit from any lag or hit detection problems because of our awful mobility made it impossible to take advantage of said problems. It was because panicking red dots don't tend to aim well while also dodging HMG fire.

Now, the intimidation is gone. Those panicking reds? They no longer have to aim well while dodging HMG fire because their aimbot assist can track us especially perfect given our huge hitbox size and lack of mobility - all they have to do is run side to side and jump up and down with their superior maneuverability while the computer aiming handles the hard part for them.

Scouts are screwed not because of a lack of mobility, but because of their paper thin armor. The aim assist doesn't have to track them nearly as well or for nearly as long.

If you cannot see how broken this is, you need to step down as a CPM member and let someone less biased or more observant handle the task of representing the community at large.

Claiming that people need to use tactics is a serious affront to the majority of the playerbase, it assumes the poster saying this is somehow one of the only ones intelligent enough to know how to hide behind a wall or move in a group, which is a ridiculous assumption to make given that the vast majority of the playerbase already knows how to hide behind walls or move with a group. Even the stupidest of blue dots understands this concept, and assuming you're the Zhuge Liang of Dust because you use the most basic fundamental tactics to give yourself a strategic advantage is hilariously presumptuous.

Try taking advantage of the fact there isn't squad shared vision anymore and the scout's stealth. Its really not about avoiding bullets but evading detection.

Notice how the only gun doing this is the Ar

So in short, they just removed variety from the game...and you consider that great.

They completely removed any advantage speed had. There is no real reason to play as a scout now. An assault is pretty much as good at playing the "cover game" and has a better tank.

Your logic fails. Hard.

Last time I checked, my heavy suit's job description was to get shot at. In fact, if a heavy is doing it properly, he should have several people shooting at him at any given moment. We have the most hp, the largest hitbox, and the slowest movement speed with the most intimidating weapons. Our job description is literally "walking target - with a huge gun", which saves our squishier blues from taking damage.

The problem with the aimbot assist is that it is too good. When people saw a heavy three days ago, panic set in. We didn't take less damage because we were harder to hit - that 10% reduction to our strafe speed amounts to what, less than half a meter per second? Nor do I believe we were being blessed with much benefit from any lag or hit detection problems because of our awful mobility made it impossible to take advantage of said problems. It was because panicking red dots don't tend to aim well while also dodging HMG fire.

Now, the intimidation is gone. Those panicking reds? They no longer have to aim well while dodging HMG fire because their aimbot assist can track us especially perfect given our huge hitbox size and lack of mobility - all they have to do is run side to side and jump up and down with their superior maneuverability while the computer aiming handles the hard part for them.

Scouts are screwed not because of a lack of mobility, but because of their paper thin armor. The aim assist doesn't have to track them nearly as well or for nearly as long.

If you cannot see how broken this is, you need to step down as a CPM member and let someone less biased or more observant handle the task of representing the community at large.

Claiming that people need to use tactics is a serious affront to the majority of the playerbase, it assumes the poster saying this is somehow one of the only ones intelligent enough to know how to hide behind a wall or move in a group, which is a ridiculous assumption to make given that the vast majority of the playerbase already knows how to hide behind walls or move with a group. Even the stupidest of blue dots understands this concept, and assuming you're the Zhuge Liang of Dust because you use the most basic fundamental tactics to give yourself a strategic advantage is hilariously presumptuous.

HTFU.

I agree.

The scout's best armour is to never get spotted.


Munch

You are completely wrong. The improvements to the hit detection mean that if anyone gets caught in my line of fire, they die. The only way I get outgunned now is if there are multiple hostiles focusing fire on only me, even then I am able to take out at least one of them sometimes more, depending on if I can retreat behind cover in time. Prior to 1.4, one guy with an AR could do the 2 step strafe dance inside my line of fire and gun me down with little effort.

Currently if one guy in a Med frame tries to solo me, he dies. If another comes up after him to sole me, he also dies! If he gets the drop on me, I actually have a chance to turn and take him out. If two or three come at me at once, I am more than likely going to lose the engagement, but not before I take at least one out. This is how a Heavy should be! Before, if one guy with a MLT AR got the drop on me I was done for, even in my proto suit! Trust me, I feel more than intimidating in my Heavy Suit now! If an enemy isn't intimidated when he first approaches me, he quickly realizes he should have been! Maybe you are doing it wrong?

You simply cannot stand in the open and strafe in circles expecting to win 85% of your engagements anymore. Strafing is now an effective means to get to cover in a firefight, while still dealing damage to your opponent. You know, what strafing is meant for!

Previously, scouts relied on the broken strafing, and broken hit detection to dodge 95% of incoming gunfire. This is no longer possible! Scouts need to use their stealth to sneak around cover and engage in CQC! I have been bested by good scouts who play this type of role perfectly after 1.4!

Gone are the days when you can simply rush an opponent head on in the wide open spaces!

Congratulations, you've failed to address a single point in my post while stroking your ego (did the aim assist help you target it as well?) for no apparent reason other than you get immense personal satisfaction from doing so.

But see, scouts never had "speed", they had glitchy rubberband behavior. There's a difference. Scouts shouldn't be able to strafe their way to safety or a kill. If you liked playing that way, tough. It's not how the game is meant to be played.

HTFU.

scouts whernt glitching anymore than anyone else, they where just fast enough to close the distance before you could get good aim on them... not that aimings a problem now. The scout could suomersault its way to you and you almost ever shot will conect due to Easyassist

Scouts shouldn't rely on glitchy hit detection and rubber banding to dodge bullets. Scouts are paper-thin, so it only goes to show that if they're discovered they should quickly die by just about any weapon. Nobody likes playing the dancing shotgun scout game except possibly the dancing glitchy scout. That just isn't what the role is meant to be though.

So who's fault is it for learning a play style that shouldn't have existed in the first place???

This build is the best build I've played for Dust. Great job CCP!

I understand enough to exploit vulnerabilities in them. Squads are slow to notice people disappearing from the back of formations.

The thing is I never played a scout as a front liner, always a back stabber sort of person. New Squad blindness is a godsend for my play style as a scout. Scouts have always died as soon as someone sneezed on them so you have to work around that fact and try other things like not getting sneezed on in the first place.

Your logic fails. Hard.

Last time I checked, my heavy suit's job description was to get shot at. In fact, if a heavy is doing it properly, he should have several people shooting at him at any given moment. We have the most hp, the largest hitbox, and the slowest movement speed with the most intimidating weapons. Our job description is literally "walking target - with a huge gun", which saves our squishier blues from taking damage.

The problem with the aimbot assist is that it is too good. When people saw a heavy three days ago, panic set in. We didn't take less damage because we were harder to hit - that 10% reduction to our strafe speed amounts to what, less than half a meter per second? Nor do I believe we were being blessed with much benefit from any lag or hit detection problems because of our awful mobility made it impossible to take advantage of said problems. It was because panicking red dots don't tend to aim well while also dodging HMG fire.

Now, the intimidation is gone. Those panicking reds? They no longer have to aim well while dodging HMG fire because their aimbot assist can track us especially perfect given our huge hitbox size and lack of mobility - all they have to do is run side to side and jump up and down with their superior maneuverability while the computer aiming handles the hard part for them.

Scouts are screwed not because of a lack of mobility, but because of their paper thin armor. The aim assist doesn't have to track them nearly as well or for nearly as long.

If you cannot see how broken this is, you need to step down as a CPM member and let someone less biased or more observant handle the task of representing the community at large.

Claiming that people need to use tactics is a serious affront to the majority of the playerbase, it assumes the poster saying this is somehow one of the only ones intelligent enough to know how to hide behind a wall or move in a group, which is a ridiculous assumption to make given that the vast majority of the playerbase already knows how to hide behind walls or move with a group. Even the stupidest of blue dots understands this concept, and assuming you're the Zhuge Liang of Dust because you use the most basic fundamental tactics to give yourself a strategic advantage is hilariously presumptuous.

Try taking advantage of the fact there isn't squad shared vision anymore and the scout's stealth. Its really not about avoiding bullets but evading detection.

... obviously you don't play scout?

There is only two things ever designed in the history of warfare in getting shot, decoys and practice targets.

You claim the logic of not getting shot fail hard yet you fail to provide as to why the logic is faulty rather you present your old context in making getting shot acceptable. Where in the world does it make sense to get shot at? As you kindly put it, the stupidest blues even know that getting shot is BAD, its always bad, there is nothing good about getting shot. Nothing good ever comes out of getting shot and if the player is more than capable of preventing getting shot they will exploit it as such. Why in the world are you advocating the idea of just stupidly standing in front of anything for anti-infantry to anti armor aimed at your head as an acceptable battlefield measure?

You can't actually be that dense, right? You're just trolling, right?

Your literal defense of aimbot assist boils down to "STAY IN COVER AT ALL TIMES EVEN AT THE COST OF SHOOTING BACK. LALALALALALA IF YOU'RE GETTING SHOT AT ALL EVER YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE", ignoring entirely one suit's role on the battle field, even when confronted with the fact that it's designed specifically to be shot at. Lots.

Plugging your ears and going "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" doesn't make my point any less valid. There is a suit specifically designed to be shot - if it wasn't designed to be shot at, it would be fast and stealthy (almost like a uh, what're those things... oh right, scouts) - but it's slow, it's got crap mobility, and it has the armor of a tank. Because, again, it's designed to be shot at. It even says so right in the description.

Since you think you're the master of tactics because you know how to hide behind walls, I'm going to assume you know what flanking is. In Dust, a flank only works if someone is taking the enemy fire. Since only a full on ****** is going to shoot at a wall someone is behind (I'm guessing this applies to you?), sometimes distracting the enemy means getting shot. Repeatedly. Until such time as the flankers can get into position to kill the things shooting at you. There are numerous other situations which involve exposing yourself to hostile gunfire, on purpose, for the greater good of the team. If you do not understand this, I'm going to venture a guess you're a solo player with no idea how to work with a team, and that you've got a much poorer understanding of tactics than you would like to believe.

Yes, getting shot, in general, is a bad thing. However, if we were all supposed to never get shot EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!11111ONEONEONE as you seem to think, heavies would not be in the game, logis would be completely useless, and we would all be using scout suits with sniper rifles. This does not sound like a fun game. Judging by the fact that the aforementioned suits do in fact exist, and we aren't all running around in scouts with sniper rifles, I'm guessing CCP agrees with me here.

Again, I feel I need to reiterate, you've got no business being a CPM member. You're far too ignorant of the core mechanics of the game to do any member of this community any good as the medium between the players and the devs. Please do us all - yourself included - a favor and step down immediately.

Do you have a brain?

Just because you can take a few more shots than a Medium suit does not mean you should stand out in the open like a jackass soaking up rounds from multiple enemies!

If you did this before 1.4 you probably died as fast or faster, except you weren't able to kill anyone because the hit detection did not work.

It says in the Heavy description that some Heavies have been known to stand toe to toe with vehicles LOL! The description means very little in terms of actual gameplay. It is lore plain and simple.

You can be a distraction for your team to flank the enemy without standing out in the open absorbing the fire from all enemies. I had a long paragraph worked out, but I'm not going to sit here and school you on how to play your role. If you think you should be able to just soak up clip after clip from an AR while standing out in the open, well lol, you are going to seriously hemorrhage ISK! I can't even believe I have to explain this simple fact!

Scout's most valuable asset is stealth. Do a tiny bit of research on "scouts" in militaries. You will quickly find this to be the case. The main job of a "scout" is recon! To be able to do any reconnaissance, you must remain hidden! The speed of a scout is there if he should so happen to be spotted from a distance. Speed is a scout's secondary streangth. It allows him to get away (YES scouts can still get away) NOT to get in close by rushing head on at an enemy! Shotgun scouts are useful in CQC scenarios where there is no open spaces, lots of corners etc. This way, he can use his superior stealth to his advantage in getting close to the enemy and taking him by surprise! By the time you spot a scout, it should be too late for you, otherwise, he is doing his job wrong!

You can't actually be that dense, right? You're just trolling, right?

Your literal defense of aimbot assist boils down to "STAY IN COVER AT ALL TIMES EVEN AT THE COST OF SHOOTING BACK. LALALALALALA IF YOU'RE GETTING SHOT AT ALL EVER YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG HUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUE", ignoring entirely one suit's role on the battle field, even when confronted with the fact that it's designed specifically to be shot at. Lots.

Plugging your ears and going "I CAN'T HEAR YOU" doesn't make my point any less valid. There is a suit specifically designed to be shot - if it wasn't designed to be shot at, it would be fast and stealthy (almost like a uh, what're those things... oh right, scouts) - but it's slow, it's got crap mobility, and it has the armor of a tank. Because, again, it's designed to be shot at. It even says so right in the description.

Since you think you're the master of tactics because you know how to hide behind walls, I'm going to assume you know what flanking is. In Dust, a flank only works if someone is taking the enemy fire. Since only a full on ****** is going to shoot at a wall someone is behind (I'm guessing this applies to you?), sometimes distracting the enemy means getting shot. Repeatedly. Until such time as the flankers can get into position to kill the things shooting at you. There are numerous other situations which involve exposing yourself to hostile gunfire, on purpose, for the greater good of the team. If you do not understand this, I'm going to venture a guess you're a solo player with no idea how to work with a team, and that you've got a much poorer understanding of tactics than you would like to believe.

Yes, getting shot, in general, is a bad thing. However, if we were all supposed to never get shot EVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES!!!!11111ONEONEONE as you seem to think, heavies would not be in the game, logis would be completely useless, and we would all be using scout suits with sniper rifles. This does not sound like a fun game. Judging by the fact that the aforementioned suits do in fact exist, and we aren't all running around in scouts with sniper rifles, I'm guessing CCP agrees with me here.

Again, I feel I need to reiterate, you've got no business being a CPM member. You're far too ignorant of the core mechanics of the game to do any member of this community any good as the medium between the players and the devs. Please do us all - yourself included - a favor and step down immediately.

Sometimes life's hard, the only thing you can do is Harden the @#$% Up.

First point.

This is what aimbots look like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYGlWjIKoY4

Try backing off the vitriol and flavor-aid a bit before trying again.

Secondly try less attacking me and more attacking the issue.

Try taking advantage of the fact there isn't squad shared vision anymore and the scout's stealth. Its really not about avoiding bullets but evading detection.

It's incredible that you can be this moronic and still manage to not electrocute yourself by simply operating a computer keyboard.

In any of my statements can you find my assertion that I think heavies should be able to stand still, in the open, for prolonged periods of time wantonly absorbing gunfire with no semblance of repercussions? No? Because it doesn't exist. I was responding to a nincompoop whose idea of playing "properly" involves never exposing oneself to gunfire at all, which is not only not possible, but a terribly selfish notion held by someone who's clearly incapable of working with a squad and can only quote military doctrine he found on google, not realizing that not all of it translates well into a video game.

In your defense of said nincompoop, you decided to interpret my points in a manner you felt like so that you could berate my intelligence instead of coming up with any logical counter argument to them, because there is no counter argument to them, because my points are correct and everyone knows it. Choosing to accept it on the other hand is an entirely different manner, one which I have no influence over.

As for standing toe to toe with vehicles being "just for the lore" and meaning very little to actual gameplay? I've done it many times over the past 14 or so months. It's not "just for the lore", you're just not good enough to do it, so you write it off as something that surely was not meant to possibly ever happen. It's fine if you want to think that in your head, but as the saying goes, it's better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and prove the point.

You can stop trying to white knight for IWS or aimbot assist (or both) now. I seriously doubt anyone is going to throw you any virtual brownie points for doing so.

Your logic fails. Hard.

Last time I checked, my heavy suit's job description was to get shot at. In fact, if a heavy is doing it properly, he should have several people shooting at him at any given moment. We have the most hp, the largest hitbox, and the slowest movement speed with the most intimidating weapons. Our job description is literally "walking target - with a huge gun", which saves our squishier blues from taking damage.

The aim assist completely destroys all variety in game. Whoever now has the strongest tank (read: heavy suit) now loses. There is no more skill needed, you don't even need to aim properly. It's a shooter with training wheels now.

There is ZERO reason to play a scout now because you can't evade anymore and scout tanks obviously suck. There is ZERO reason to play an assault because the heavy is simply better. And playing a logi as a KB/M user is pointless because the equipment wheel is totally broken now.

Less variety = bad

As long as aim assist is in game, I feel like playing with an aim bot. I'm going back to Project Zomboid until they remove it...if not, goodbye Dust.

Oh wow here we go. You should really follow your own advice, sir.

Unless, of course you never said this. It sure kind of looks like you did though.

You're forgetting to think of one fairly important and rather obvious thing in relation to my post about a walking target.

People without aimbot assist don't always hit a walking target. This is the problem with your entire "counter argument" - you're working on the assumption that everyone should have equal and perfect skill in aiming. They shouldn't, but they currently do with aim assist, and that is the entire ******* problem. The rest of the self-aggrandizing drivel in your post is not worth responding to, but by all means, cool story bro.

Jesus, some of the posts on this forum are so dumb they make my hair hurt.

FINALLY got to play some today!

CCP, Thank you for this update!

Don't listen to the crybabies! The aim assist is not what they are making it out to be! The Hit detection is perfect! My HMG actually hits like it should now! There is little to no "magnetism" you do actually still have to aim. You can't "let go of the right stick" as some claim.