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Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
217
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Posted - 2013.09.02 01:39:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm trying to wrap my head around why we have Scout suits in the game. As people have pointed out, they're not "light" versions of Assault suits, and they don't do Logi, or grenading or anything specific, really. So why do we have them? What is their "role?" I get they're very fast, but they're not glass cannons. They're just glass.
They have a small sig....ok good. They can't run around in the enemy redline, though, so they can't *really* clear out snipers. Maybe redline immunity would be cool, but I'd rather a fix where the redlines just apply to both teams. |
Sleepy Zan
Djentleman's Society
2474
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Posted - 2013.09.02 01:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
No idea what a scount would be used for... |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
785
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Posted - 2013.09.02 01:44:00 -
[3] - Quote
Actually the best ''scout'' is the Minmatar logi.... Kin cat Cardia Reg Profile Damp
And shield tank. Voila....
Self repair + hacking speed as bonuses. |
Kal Kronos
Svartur Bjorn
1
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Posted - 2013.09.02 01:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Fast flanking, RE baiting, objective capping, and soon scanning. Basically scouting and probing, go figure. |
Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
227
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Posted - 2013.09.02 01:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
I see scouts as having three main uses (assuming all classes sufficiently fill their role):
CQC stealth fighter: Slips into occupied areas and stealthily kills enemies. Medium range scouter: Advances ahead of rest of team, scouts out enemy's positions, and advices main force on enemy locations and best entry routes
^ both also serve well for hacking objectives/installations when enemy has their back turned
Long range counter-sniper: While not having the straight up damage of an Assault sniper, the supply line of a Logi sniper, or the toughness of a Heavy sniper, the scout sniper serves well in finding other snipers while not being detected themselves. |
Spec Ops Cipher
Seraphim Initiative..
431
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Posted - 2013.09.02 02:05:00 -
[6] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Actually the best ''scout'' is the Minmatar logi.... Kin cat Cardia Reg Profile Damp
And shield tank. Voila....
Self repair + hacking speed as bonuses. This. This guy knows...
Its all true, Minnie logi can run faster, for longer, with less profile, more hacking speed, more health and 4 equipment.
BUT
We scouts have sidearms. Yeeaah. |
Spec Ops Cipher
Seraphim Initiative..
431
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Posted - 2013.09.02 02:06:00 -
[7] - Quote
Krom Ganesh wrote:I see scouts as having three main uses (assuming all classes sufficiently fill their role):
CQC stealth fighter: Slips into occupied areas and stealthily kills enemies while enemy is distracted. Medium range scouter: Advances ahead of rest of team, scouts out enemy's positions, and advises main force on enemy locations and best entry routes
^ both also serve well for hacking objectives/installations and planting traps when enemy has their back turned
Long range counter-sniper: While not having the straight up damage of an Assault sniper, the supply line of a Logi sniper, or the toughness of a Heavy sniper, the scout sniper serves well in finding other snipers while not being detected themselves. All 3 of those can be fulfilled better by any assault suit. |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
217
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Posted - 2013.09.02 03:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
I wasn't making a joke or being facetious; I genuinely was curious what Scouts' roles are lol. I can't seem to see a clearly defined role for them. I get the "scouting" mechanic, but it doesn't seem that the game has created the tools for them to be successful, so I was just curious. |
Xender17
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
529
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Posted - 2013.09.02 03:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
The only advantage is the reduced profile. Which the Min lofi can easily overcome. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
3868
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Posted - 2013.09.02 03:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
What's a scount? |
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Krom Ganesh
Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire
229
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Posted - 2013.09.02 03:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
Spec Ops Cipher wrote:All 3 of those can be fulfilled better by any assault suit. That's why I said "assuming all classes sufficiently fill their role". As far as I was aware, this was a discussion of what role scouts ]should fill, not where they are now. |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
333
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Posted - 2013.09.02 03:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nuts to the Winmatter super logi-scout. My Minja Alt stabs people in the back. I used to think forge gunning a sniper up close was the best, wrong. Gonna love those Nova Knives when they start registering hits on moving targets more often. |
DJINN Marauder
Ancient Exiles
1003
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:07:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ahh the old chrom days when scouts were pretty good. 3 highs 3 lows 2 equipment. Or the vk1 with 3 everything but no sidearm.
I miss those days.
Even though I wasn't a scout back then. |
Godin Thekiller
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
434
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:10:00 -
[14] - Quote
SLAVS are **** too.... I think anything with "Scout" in the name has a curse on it..... |
Vespasian Andendare
Subsonic Synthesis Alpha Wolf Pack
217
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:What's a scount? This is why I didn't know what they were used for! lol good catch!
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Roy Ventus
Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance
448
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
The Scouts WERE good. Now they're a bit sucky. Imo they need specific modules or something. Idk. Scouts are supposed to Scout while Logistics are supposed to do Logistics.
The same way Cloaking is a Scout only thing(I believe it's been hinted that it's only for Scouts), there should be other modules/equipment only for light infantry. Tagging, Tracking, any thing else that helps make them an actual Scout...Actually I think I'm about to head to the suggestion room just because I feel strongly about this. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
860
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
I use my to detect enemy's for my team, and slip in to take out any stranglers.
Can't wait for squad shared vision to be turned off. |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
44
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:26:00 -
[18] - Quote
Easy kills for everyone else. |
RedZer0 MK1
Opus Arcana
31
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Posted - 2013.09.02 04:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
They don't have a role. There is little difference in scan radius to make them scouts. There isn't any advantage to running scout versus anything else. Perhaps they should get a second equipment... |
Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
411
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Posted - 2013.09.02 05:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
to give away +50 points to the enemy team every so often :( |
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DeadlyAztec11
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
2098
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Posted - 2013.09.02 05:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Not much. Unfortunately, the scan us broken so even at max levels you are only slightly better than assaults.
1.4 Should address these issues and more, though. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
160
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Posted - 2013.09.02 06:07:00 -
[22] - Quote
Scouts have no real role, it is CCPs forgotten child (kind of like CCPs mutant baby the Commando), despite the fact that it has been here forever.
1.4 won't change much for scouts, losing vision of both your teammates and the enemy will have both positive and negative effects, so that is pretty neutral. Active scanning still does nothing for wps and only is really effective if you have a full squad.
CCP has mentioned that they are going to look to see what they can do in 1.6, but considering that is 2 updates ahead, we know the glitch correction cycle will push that back another month, so I am guessing 1.7.
Again this is not to say that people can't play scouts, its just that you are performing with diminished results.
What scouts should be is the enemy team divider or anti logi, either by giving away the position of the team or by group harassment/disorientation through EWAR.
On the bright sides I do believe we are the best nova knifing class still |
Yan Darn
DUST University Ivy League
45
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Posted - 2013.09.02 06:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:I wasn't making a joke or being facetious; I genuinely was curious what Scouts' roles are lol. I can't seem to see a clearly defined role for them. I get the "scouting" mechanic, but it doesn't seem that the game has created the tools for them to be successful, so I was just curious.
This is pretty much the case I think. I never really saw the scout as being a ninja assassin or anything, but as it stands, nova knifing is the only thing a scout can really do better (shame I'm a Gallente scout...). What bothers me, isn't so much my KDr or WP (I don't do too bad in most pub matches) - its the fact if I post 'LFS Scout' in corp chat, people are more likely to avoid squadding with me...
Since there are no developed scan or stealth mechanics - the profile reduction thing is pretty much a non-thing.
No EWAR options besides...active scanner (which anyone can carry)?
I'm fine if the scout doesn't get additional speed or tank - those sound more like assault stats. What we need is stealth and detection, which means we need someway to avoid detection that other classes don't have. Which means the game needs more than 10m passive scans and for profile dampening and precision actually so something.
It really is tempting to go for the min-logis hp regen, greater tank, hack bonus and 2 additional equip slots. Realistically - the sidearm is all you are losing. If you want to know what a scouts role is - look no further than a recon spec'ed min-logi.
*sigh*
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Nestil
Seraphim Auxiliaries
40
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Posted - 2013.09.02 07:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
padding other players KDR -.- |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
399
|
Posted - 2013.09.02 08:15:00 -
[25] - Quote
The sole purpose of the scout suit is to differentiate the men from the boys.
Mission accomplished. |
Smooth Assassin
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
109
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Posted - 2013.09.02 08:30:00 -
[26] - Quote
A medium frame could use a shotgun (not a nova knife) so i'm not sure why a scout would use a shotgun a medium frame would be great cos extra health. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
396
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Posted - 2013.09.02 08:40:00 -
[27] - Quote
Oswald Rehnquist wrote:Scouts have no real role, it is CCPs forgotten child (kind of like CCPs mutant baby the Commando), despite the fact that it has been here forever.
1.4 won't change much for scouts, losing vision of both your teammates and the enemy will have both positive and negative effects, so that is pretty neutral. Active scanning still does nothing for wps and only is really effective if you have a full squad.
CCP has mentioned that they are going to look to see what they can do in 1.6, but considering that is 2 updates ahead, we know the glitch correction cycle will push that back another month, so I am guessing 1.7.
Again this is not to say that people can't play scouts, its just that you are performing with diminished results.
What scouts should be is the enemy team divider or anti logi, either by giving away the position of the team or by group harassment/disorientation through EWAR.
On the bright sides I do believe we are the best nova knifing class still
Actually I thought they said they would throw it in 1.5 as they had started working on it and tried to get the WPs for active scans in 1.4. They obviously didn't make the deadline though.
If you are in a decent corp then you should always find yourself in a full squad which means that the active scanners will be extremely useful.
Well trained scouts can put a serious panic to any heavy in there path.
I personally work as a counter logi and, if my team is competent, am able to do my job quite well.
I also keep uplinks on hadn. Yes a logi can place more but when you think about it... where do they ALWAY place them? Right on the front lines! This does no good for tactical players that would like to first put some distance between them and the enemy in order to plan out there next move. I prefer to place my uplinks behind enemy lines and at elevated positions. This give aggressive scouts (ninjas and shotgunners) a chance to attack from behind while allowing snipers instant access to a crow's nest (gotta hate spawning in a fire fight with nothing but dam sniper rifle).
My stealth and hacking speed allows me to hack defensive objectives in order to get the enemy's attention away from the major ones (if they ignore it then that's just more damage against there MCC)
Sure Logis CAN mod themselves for scout jobs but do to there desire to deal damage or stay alive, they usually don't.
Scouts are always on the move and planning there next way to disorient the enemy. In a RPG world the scout's job is to debuff and assassinate (heavy damage vs single targets).
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST. |
Oswald Rehnquist
Abandoned Privilege General Tso's Alliance
161
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Posted - 2013.09.02 10:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
ALPHA DECRIPTER wrote:Actually I thought they said they would throw it in 1.5 as they had started working on it and tried to get the WPs for active scans in 1.4. They obviously didn't make the deadline though. If you are in a decent corp then you should always find yourself in a full squad which means that the active scanners will be extremely useful. Well trained scouts can put a serious panic to any heavy in there path. I personally work as a counter logi and, if my team is competent, am able to do my job quite well. I also keep uplinks on hadn. Yes a logi can place more but when you think about it... where do they ALWAY place them? Right on the front lines! This does no good for tactical players that would like to first put some distance between them and the enemy in order to plan out there next move. I prefer to place my uplinks behind enemy lines and at elevated positions. This give aggressive scouts (ninjas and shotgunners) a chance to attack from behind while allowing snipers instant access to a crow's nest (gotta hate spawning in a fire fight with nothing but dam sniper rifle). My stealth and hacking speed allows me to hack defensive objectives in order to get the enemy's attention away from the major ones (if they ignore it then that's just more damage against there MCC) Sure Logis CAN mod themselves for scout jobs but do to there desire to deal damage or stay alive, they usually don't. Scouts are always on the move and planning there next way to disorient the enemy. In a RPG world the scout's job is to debuff and assassinate (heavy damage vs single targets).
`Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST .
1.5 will get a hot patch which they give more support wp across the board and 1.6 will be the scout patch from what I read.
Also what you have described is what economists call a comparative advantage, the fact that logis may do it better but most of them don't want to waste time and points flanking means that the more desperate scouts are more willing to fill in these roles is where the scout fall into game play.
You and I fill in similar roles, but we aren't counter logis but in fact logi lites. Scout Alpha strikes are lower than medium frames which ironically make sniping much weaker and riskier. The only reason we focus on "high" damage is because we can't continue on a traditional sustained fight. Meaning the only "assassins" roles we can actually function in is KInCat Shotgunning and KInCat NKing. You can definately hold your own with positive k/d ratios operating in these roles
Also disorientation is a one v group tactic aka team divider (what I call Beta Scouts), assassination in the heavy damage single target assassination (which I call Alpha Scouts). Scouts need to be versatile enough to be able to choose one of these two function, currently the tools for Beta scouts are lacking a bit and the risk/reward to Alpha scouts is heavily leaning towards a much higher risk. The reason for flattening scout ratios despite skill investment is because the skills themselves have a comparatively low effect on the fact that cqc scouts go in there is a 50%+ chance of death before getting your 1+ kills since speed tanking has its limits. Meaning there has to be more enter and escape options given to the scout, in fact if scouts got a unique method to break disengagements along with speed that alone would make the scout worthy of forum tears. |
GRIM GEAR
The Enclave Syndicate Dark Taboo
21
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Posted - 2013.09.02 11:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
What you can't be serious I mean what you haven't heard? SCOUT SUITS ARE ONLY GOOD FOR CANNON FODDER!. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
114
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Posted - 2013.09.02 11:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Vespasian Andendare wrote:I wasn't making a joke or being facetious; I genuinely was curious what Scouts' roles are lol. I can't seem to see a clearly defined role for them. I get the "scouting" mechanic, but it doesn't seem that the game has created the tools for them to be successful, so I was just curious.
Right now scouts have no real role on the battlefiedl other than beeing easy prey. Every role a scout can fullfil it gets outclasses by medium frame suits. Maybe the minniscout has some sort of role in term of a nova knifer if you want this niche call a role... |
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