DUST Search - How to balance Dust 514

Garrett Blacknova wrote:

Alldin Kan wrote:

This first one is a must have: Let's say I'm using the DS3, "Press X to move over Object/Railing" (I know you want this to show up in a patch). Heavies only have that option while not wielding a Heavy weapon (switch to sidearm). The time it takes for a person to move over the object/railing is dependent on the Dropsuit's speed.

Please don't.

Just... no.

When I'm shooting an enemy while I'm near a railing, and there's a reason for me to want to jump, I DON'T WANT A CONTEXTUAL ACTION OVERRIDING MY JUMP.

This should be a dynamic action when you jump at a railing that's low enough in a non-Heavy suit, or in a Heavy suit with a non-Heavy weapon equipped. It should NOT be something that interferes with player control.

UE3 (the engine DUST is built on) was also use to create the dynamic vaulting and sliding animations shown off in Mirror's Edge and a similar dynamic system in Brink, in which you could continue firing (with reduced accuracy) during acrobatic moves like this. Brink also had a size-based movement system with small, medium and large body types, each having its own movement profile, much like DUST. A similar, but less in-depth, system would be great here.

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Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 552	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:05:00 - [1] - Quote AV and Vehicles are being reworked so I won't be mentioning them. Scouts should get cloaking at some point and they're meant for hit-n-run tactics anyways so no mention either. This first one is a must have: Let's say I'm using the DS3, "Press X to move over Object/Railing" (I know you want this to show up in a patch). Heavies only have that option while not wielding a Heavy weapon (switch to sidearm). The time it takes for a person to move over the object/railing is dependent on the Dropsuit's speed. New Breach AR/SMG stats: Breach AR Damage - 70.1 HP Breach AR RoF - 450 High Kick for Breach AR Breach SMG RoF - 882.8 Breach SMG clip size - 62 Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG New Grenade Stats: All Grenade types except Fused will have Max. Ammo of 2 Grenades cannot be resupplied from Nanohives, this is to prevent spam and use it tactically. Fused Locus Grenade - 350 dmg, 2.5 splash radius, 9 CPU and 2 PG M2 Contact Locus Grenade - 400 dmg, 2.8 splash Radius, 18 CPU and 3 PG Thukker Contact Locus Grenade - 450 dmg, 3.0 splash radius, 48 CPU and 6 PG (buff because of point 2) New Assault Scrambler Rifle stat: Increase Optimal Range to 50m. New Tactical Sniper Rifle Stats: Increase Clip Size by 5 RoF reduced to 78.4 New Laser Rifle Stats: Damage - 19.5 HP Add RoF stat in "Attributes" New stats for Ammar Commando: Shield - 320 HP Armor - 320 HP Shield Recharge Rate - 17.0 HP/s CPU/PG would receive a slight increase Ammar Commando Bonus - 10% to efficacy of Shield/Armor Modules per level Plasma Cannon Assault Variant: 30% Higher Direct damage than current PLC stats Same Splash Damage stats as the current PLC Base Splash Radius is 3.8 Max. Ammo at 12 Plasma Cannon Normal Variant: 45% higher Direct damage than current PLC stats 15% higher Splash damage than the Assault Variant Base Splash Radius is still 3.5 Charge time is 1 s Plasma Cannon Breach Variant: 75% higher damage than current PLC stats (to be more AV oriented) Splash damage is the same as Normal Variant Splash radius is 1.8 Charge time is 1.4 s The operation skill for the PC weapon is to be replaced with 8% Splash Radius increase per level. I say 8% because I tested the damage received on different distances from the point of impact and I only received the full damage around 2 meters or less. The current operation skill is about as useless as the old Splash Radius increase for Swarm Launcher (5% reduction per level to charge time of 0.6s isn't helpful). This weapon in its current condition is not worth using. I'll keep bumping this thread as necessary and maybe add new things.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 746	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:10:00 - [2] - Quote Holy crap, this actually seems to make a bit of sense! I figured this was going to be a whiny child screeching "Delete the MD!" Cause they seem unable to understand that you are supposed to out range it to kill it.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation 431	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:19:00 - [3] - Quote Is the ARs ranged being reduced? What's your take on the MD? It sounds like you've been reading the forums. The RoF of the laser sounds cool. It's going to pump out higher concetration of laser, faster! Nice. Good post. Are there any special weapons you'll like to see made?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 2875	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:22:00 - [4] - Quote Nice to see your opinions on these, particularly as they're intelligently presented. I agree with a few of them. I made a similar post on weapon balance, if you'd like to read it, though I no longer agree with some of the things I wrote. Naturally there are some differences in solutions, but particularly on grenades I found it interesting to see how much I agree with you.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 554	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:24:00 - [5] - Quote Need a moment for the scanning stuff...
Patrick57 GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 87	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:26:00 - [6] - Quote Why would it make any sense that an assault rifle with a lower rate of fire has more kick?
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 554	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:26:00 - [7] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Holy crap, this actually seems to make a bit of sense! I figured this was going to be a whiny child screeching "Delete the MD!" Cause they seem unable to understand that you are supposed to out range it to kill it. Edit- But, I find you numbers a bit overkill, these would make Breach weapons OP. I'll respond in a bit, when I have something more suitable to replieing in a quote. Increased kick helps. Patrick57 wrote: Why would it make any sense that an assault rifle with a lower rate of fire has more kick? Concentrated shots would result in higher kick.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster 138	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:32:00 - [8] - Quote Damn, nice list of suggestions +1 good sir.
Auld Syne Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 97	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:34:00 - [9] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: Breach AR Damage - 70.1 HP Breach AR RoF - 450 High Kick for Breach AR Breach SMG RoF - 882.8 Breach SMG clip size - 62 Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG You've got my attention with these numbers. I like them. I do have a question about the Breach AR, are you talking about a basic Breach AR doing 70 damage?
Godin Thekiller Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 419	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:38:00 - [10] - Quote Those PC changes aren't very good. It doesn't need to hit harder.........

Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 274	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:41:00 - [11] - Quote Ive been doing some work with breach AR, 70 dmg per bullet is a ccp style buff lol. The rof i think will be good at 500, 60 dmg should do the trick.
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 274	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:48:00 - [12] - Quote Also think forge bonus to shields and swarm bonus to armor should be generously be reduced.
Auld Syne Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:49:00 - [13] - Quote You have a great amount of respect from me because usually when people suggest numbers to the community they are pulled out of their ass but not you sir, no, not you.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 558	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:51:00 - [14] - Quote Auld Syne wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: Breach AR Damage - 70.1 HP Breach AR RoF - 450 High Kick for Breach AR Breach SMG RoF - 882.8 Breach SMG clip size - 62 Slightly Higher Kick for Breach SMG You've got my attention with these numbers. I like them. I do have a question about the Breach AR, are you talking about a basic Breach AR doing 70 damage? My bad, this is PRO tier stat.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 977	Posted - 2013.08.31 16:52:00 - [15] - Quote Assert Dominance wrote: Also think forge bonus to shields and swarm bonus to armor should be generously be reduced. Forge is 90/110 and thus has no bonus to shields. Swarms are supposed to be 80/120 but all explosives are screwed up at the moment, so once that is fixed Swarms would be in a slightly better place.
8213 Grade No.2 215	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:03:00 - [16] - Quote How to Balance all FPS games. Only way o do it: Make everything OP as f*ck. Take the skill factor completely out of it. Sorry, its the only way.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3403	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:08:00 - [17] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: This first one is a must have: Let's say I'm using the DS3, "Press X to move over Object/Railing" (I know you want this to show up in a patch). Heavies only have that option while not wielding a Heavy weapon (switch to sidearm). The time it takes for a person to move over the object/railing is dependent on the Dropsuit's speed. Please don't. Just... no. When I'm shooting an enemy while I'm near a railing, and there's a reason for me to want to jump, I DON'T WANT A CONTEXTUAL ACTION OVERRIDING MY JUMP. This should be a dynamic action when you jump at a railing that's low enough in a non-Heavy suit, or in a Heavy suit with a non-Heavy weapon equipped. It should NOT be something that interferes with player control. UE3 (the engine DUST is built on) was also use to create the dynamic vaulting and sliding animations shown off in Mirror's Edge and a similar dynamic system in Brink, in which you could continue firing (with reduced accuracy) during acrobatic moves like this. Brink also had a size-based movement system with small, medium and large body types, each having its own movement profile, much like DUST. A similar, but less in-depth, system would be great here.
Assert Dominance Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 274	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:10:00 - [18] - Quote 8213 wrote: How to Balance all FPS games. Only way o do it: Make everything OP as f*ck. Take the skill factor completely out of it. Sorry, its the only way. Or... Take your time, think it through, adjust numbers reasonably, play the game and see how it plays out, hotfix any overperforming traits accordingly.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 558	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:15:00 - [19] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Alldin Kan wrote: This first one is a must have: Let's say I'm using the DS3, "Press X to move over Object/Railing" (I know you want this to show up in a patch). Heavies only have that option while not wielding a Heavy weapon (switch to sidearm). The time it takes for a person to move over the object/railing is dependent on the Dropsuit's speed. Please don't. Just... no. When I'm shooting an enemy while I'm near a railing, and there's a reason for me to want to jump, I DON'T WANT A CONTEXTUAL ACTION OVERRIDING MY JUMP. This should be a dynamic action when you jump at a railing that's low enough in a non-Heavy suit, or in a Heavy suit with a non-Heavy weapon equipped. It should NOT be something that interferes with player control. UE3 (the engine DUST is built on) was also use to create the dynamic vaulting and sliding animations shown off in Mirror's Edge and a similar dynamic system in Brink, in which you could continue firing (with reduced accuracy) during acrobatic moves like this. Brink also had a size-based movement system with small, medium and large body types, each having its own movement profile, much like DUST. A similar, but less in-depth, system would be great here. I'm pretty sure you would need to be looking directly at the object/railing and moving towards it to do the contextual action...
TunRa Ill Omens 108	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:21:00 - [20] - Quote I remember I used to play a game (forgot the name) but it only had 1 weapon. That weapon was a accurate, high damage rifle that could kill in 1 - 3 shots. The only reason it wasn't OP was because EVERYONE had it. A few months after the game was released the creator added in 2 more weapons. Then all hell broke loose and the game kept getting weapons nerfed and buffed and no one was happy. In the world of FPS nothing is ever balanced, ever...

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 3404	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:26:00 - [21] - Quote Alldin Kan wrote: I'm pretty sure you would need to be looking directly at the object/railing and moving towards it to do the contextual action... The way you described it, you'd only need to be facing it and you'd have a prompt on-screen, if you want to jump, you'd have to turn away to avoid triggering it. I don't want it to be something that comes with a prompt, and I don't want it to be automatically triggered just by facing the railing and hitting the button. If you have to be moving towards the railing, and maybe even have to hold the jump button to vault something, that's fine. But then it stops being a contextual interaction overriding your jump, and becomes exactly what I was asking for instead.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 558	Posted - 2013.08.31 17:34:00 - [22] - Quote TunRa wrote: I remember I used to play a game (forgot the name) but it only had 1 weapon. That weapon was a accurate, high damage rifle that could kill in 1 - 3 shots. The only reason it wasn't OP was because EVERYONE had it. A few months after the game was released the creator added in 2 more weapons. Then all hell broke loose and the game kept getting weapons nerfed and buffed and no one was happy. In the world of FPS nothing is ever balanced, ever... Have you played Team Fortress 2?
Morathi III Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 213	Posted - 2013.08.31 19:16:00 - [23] - Quote Interesting stuff Alldin, good things
Shadow of War88 0uter.Heaven 59	Posted - 2013.08.31 19:22:00 - [24] - Quote y would a low rate of fire breach ar have high recoil? LOL hives will forever resupply grenades
Fargen Icehole SyNergy Gaming EoN. 122	Posted - 2013.08.31 22:14:00 - [25] - Quote Shadow of War88 wrote: y would a low rate of fire breach ar have high recoil? LOL hives will forever resupply grenades You could make the argument that the more powerful projectile or more powerful plasma (or whatever you wish to imagine is shooting out of the gun) creates more heat and thus more gas is discharged from the weapon. The gas is released from the bottom of the barrel and causes upward recoil. Re: nanohives Making it so that ONLY supply depots replenished grenades, would inherently make it so someone couldn't lay down a nanohive and spam AV nades on tanks. This would take away the argument that some tankers have that AV nades are OP. Since 2 or 3 AV nades (even proto ones) can't kill a maxxed out/high level tank.
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 559	Posted - 2013.08.31 22:14:00 - [26] - Quote bump
Alldin Kan TeamPlayers EoN. 559	Posted - 2013.09.01 03:20:00 - [27] - Quote bump
Shotty GoBang Intara Direct Action Caldari State 746	Posted - 2013.09.01 04:38:00 - [28] - Quote Hi OP, Thank you for the well-written post. I have two weaponry-related questions for you , if I may: 1) How would you respond to claims of AR "every-role" superiority evidenced by Duvolle proliferation in PC? 2) What changes, if any, would you propose to bring balance to CQC? Best Regards, Shotty GoBang
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 551	Posted - 2013.09.01 05:50:00 - [29] - Quote I like this thread so much that ill help you bump it.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 350	Posted - 2013.09.01 06:09:00 - [30] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Hi OP, Thank you for the well-written post. I have two weaponry-related questions for you , if I may: 1) How would you respond to claims of AR "every-role" superiority evidenced by Duvolle proliferation in PC? 2) What changes, if any, would you propose to bring balance to CQC? Best Regards, Shotty GoBang Would like to hear the answer to this as well Alldin.



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