DUST Search - CCP Mass drivers are ****.

McFurious wrote:

demonkiller 12 wrote:

The problem is everyone shield tanks - 1 flux and 1 std mass driver round kills most non heavies
itd be the same against armor tanker - 2 shots from a std scrambler and a std or adv locus grenade would kill most non heavies

Armor tanker here. Everything kills me. Any advantage armor has is negated by the fact that I'm very slow and easy to hit. My advance minmatar suit has better survivability than my proto gallente. Can't wait for 1.4 buffs.

Even still, I don't have much of a problem against MD's. They kill me sometimes but so does everything else.

So here's some tips: Either take them on at very close range where they risk hurting themselves or long range because most MD players can't hit a tank that's sitting still at long range but don't stand still, ffs, use that sprint-strafe action. Even better: flank. If you hear that unmistakable MD sound, act accordingly. Much like being too close to a heavy with a HMG, you try not to fight them where they're strongest.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 85	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:44:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. I certainly appreciate the resistance to making a kneejerk reaction to appease forum rage and relying primarily on statistics for that end. You continue to impress, Wolfman.
McFurious TeamPlayers EoN. 318	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:44:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. Most likely. Even the Chromosome MD's weren't a problem with the aiming was great. Maybe the MD will need a buff after 1.4.
Crimson Cerberes Hammer Of Light Covenant of the Phoenix Alliance 0	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:45:00 - [33] - Quote So what is it that flaylock pistols and mass drivers have in common? oh thats right they are overpowered AOE weapons. EDIT: well it is what they used to havein common until CCP nerfed the butt off of flaylock
I-Shayz-I Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 718	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:47:00 - [34] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Not to mention Mass Driver users that have to deal with armor players with increased health. Then again, it's not like Assault Rifles don't take down players 10x faster from range -_-

CCP Wolfman C C P C C P Alliance 1618	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:49:00 - [35] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Is there any chance they might one day go back to 4/6 clips instead of 6/8, now that explosions register properly and what not? We didn't have any plans to, I'll file that thought away in the possible nerfs draw until we see the impact of 1.4.

Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2588	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:50:00 - [36] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Not to mention Mass Driver users that have to deal with armor players with increased health. Then again, it's not like Assault Rifles don't take down players 10x faster from range -_- Bear in mind (as I have covered very very extensively in testing) that Splash Damage does not take into account resistances. So, while the Mass Driver -SHOULD- be doing 130% damage to Armor, it's only doing 100%.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 2588	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:50:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Is there any chance they might one day go back to 4/6 clips instead of 6/8, now that explosions register properly and what not? We didn't have any plans to, I'll file that thought away in the possible nerfs draw until we see the impact of 1.4. Off topic but, any idea when Plasma Cannon re-balancing is going to come in?
Void Echo Echo Galactic Industries 1137	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:52:00 - [38] - Quote Bane R3AP wrote: You fixed the failock, and miraculously everyone stopped using them. maybe because that "fix" for you, was actually a nerf for them, if something is fixed, then people wont stop using it, if its nerfed, people will stop using it.
Jenza's Pants Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 98	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:54:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Is there any chance they might one day go back to 4/6 clips instead of 6/8, now that explosions register properly and what not? We didn't have any plans to, I'll file that thought away in the possible nerfs draw until we see the impact of 1.4. No nerfs plz? MD is about as balanced as it can be right now, and with aiming updates, AR's will feel alot more powerful. The only OP thing around here is the forum whining.
Charlotte O'Dell 0uter.Heaven 1244	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:55:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. wolfman is the man

Thumb Green Novashift 351	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:59:00 - [41] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I almost never win a 1v1 vs a MD. Only when I am smart and use a Flux + SMG combo do I win. I think this is because I can miss, and its hard for them to miss. Any weapon, even the shot gun is outdone by the MD in CQC because it is hard to miss with it. I personally think its absolutely ridiculous that a grenade launcher is the best weapon to use in close quarters, it just seems... Wrong. MD > Shotguns is a hit detection issue, not a balance issue. The fact that the MD is even viable as a CQC weapon is a balance issue.
Tallen Ellecon KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 650	Posted - 2013.08.30 03:59:00 - [42] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Is there any chance they might one day go back to 4/6 clips instead of 6/8, now that explosions register properly and what not? We didn't have any plans to, I'll file that thought away in the possible nerfs draw until we see the impact of 1.4. Please don't nerf the MD, it really is in a great spot right now.
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 212	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:04:00 - [43] - Quote QIT WHINING ABOUT THE MASSDRIVER IT HAS ALREADY BEEN REBALENCED
Jenza's Pants Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 100	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:05:00 - [44] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: I almost never win a 1v1 vs a MD. Only when I am smart and use a Flux + SMG combo do I win. I think this is because I can miss, and its hard for them to miss. Any weapon, even the shot gun is outdone by the MD in CQC because it is hard to miss with it. I personally think its absolutely ridiculous that a grenade launcher is the best weapon to use in close quarters, it just seems... Wrong. MD > Shotguns is a hit detection issue, not a balance issue. The fact that the MD is even viable as a CQC weapon is a balance issue. How? Its far more balanced that that fact everyone is running around spamming 3 core locus grenades...
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 1064	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:15:00 - [45] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. If the MD is doing the damage it's supposed to be doing an AR user only has to land 1/3 of his rounds to kill the MD user first. The MD can go back to softening up squads that are hiding behind cover and too tightly bunched up. I hope 1.4 fixes things so I can go back to the MD without being a mass hole.
Thumb Green Novashift 351	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:21:00 - [46] - Quote Jenza's Pants wrote: How? Its far more balanced that that fact everyone is running around spamming 3 core locus grenades... If someone is jumping circles around someone else spamming grenades at their feet they're far more likely to kill themselves than someone doing the same thing with the MD.
Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:39:00 - [47] - Quote ladwar wrote: get good.. the MD has the longest time to kill out of any other weapon Got video's of your last 10 encounters with an exo MD? Heck, even if you only die in half of them, I'd pay your point. But we wont be seeing that from you, of course. Because words = cheap.
Obodiah Garro Tech Guard General Tso's Alliance 301	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:40:00 - [48] - Quote Signed
KING CHECKMATE Bragian Order Amarr Empire 705	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:42:00 - [49] - Quote the ONLY time i will accept someone calling a MD OP is if its coming from a scout. Why? Because Scouts are supposed to be able to outrun them , get close or at least survive a single shot from them.But its not the case. I will not take into account a QQ post by a player that im 90% sure, uses ARs....
demonkiller 12 Seraphim Auxiliaries 146	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:43:00 - [50] - Quote The problem is everyone shield tanks - 1 flux and 1 std mass driver round kills most non heavies itd be the same against armor tanker - 2 shots from a std scrambler and a std or adv locus grenade would kill most non heavies

Blake Kingston Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 71	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:48:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: I think with the aiming updates in 1.4 we are going to see massholes getting dropped a lot faster. We need to see the full impact of these changes before we make any nerfs/buffs. Gunna release any stats on that when it happens (perhaps with a break down of how effective it is vs proto and vs militia - not a good idea to say the MD is fine by mixing the two stats, when really new players are getting a bad game from it (ie, facing an 'I win button' weapon) and proto aren't) Atleast some kind of test of them is sheduled.
Commander Tuna KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.08.30 04:49:00 - [52] - Quote why it was changed from a denial of area/support weapon to an end all be all cqc weapon is beyond me. Seriously, I do not understand how people can defend this gun as it is.
McFurious TeamPlayers EoN. 319	Posted - 2013.08.30 05:27:00 - [53] - Quote demonkiller 12 wrote: The problem is everyone shield tanks - 1 flux and 1 std mass driver round kills most non heavies itd be the same against armor tanker - 2 shots from a std scrambler and a std or adv locus grenade would kill most non heavies Armor tanker here. Everything kills me. Any advantage armor has is negated by the fact that I'm very slow and easy to hit. My advance minmatar suit has better survivability than my proto gallente. Can't wait for 1.4 buffs. Even still, I don't have much of a problem against MD's. They kill me sometimes but so does everything else. So here's some tips: Either take them on at very close range where they risk hurting themselves or long range because most MD players can't hit a tank that's sitting still at long range but don't stand still, ffs, use that sprint-strafe action. Even better: flank. If you hear that unmistakable MD sound, act accordingly. Much like being too close to a heavy with a HMG, you try not to fight them where they're strongest.
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 773	Posted - 2013.08.30 06:16:00 - [54] - Quote any idea about flaylock realancing. its radius needs a massive buff, although the damage should stay as is. (radius increase by 50% for std, adv, proto)
D legendary hero THE WARRIORS OF LEGEND 773	Posted - 2013.08.30 06:21:00 - [55] - Quote Idk why everyone is scared of mass drivers after 1.4... Can you imagine all the ARs (milita to proto) that with auto aim will be hitting you with every shot from 0 -75 meters range with anywhere between the minimum 467 dps to the averge max 690 dps? I mean your average suit already dies fast to ARs, and they miss alot of shots. imagine when auto aim makes them a flipping aim bot? you won't b ablr to use any gun other than ARs
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. 24	Posted - 2013.08.30 06:30:00 - [56] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Idk why everyone is scared of mass drivers after 1.4... Can you imagine all the ARs (milita to proto) that with auto aim will be hitting you with every shot from 0 -75 meters range with anywhere between the minimum 467 dps to the averge max 690 dps? I mean your average suit already dies fast to ARs, and they miss alot of shots. imagine when auto aim makes them a flipping aim bot? you won't b ablr to use any gun other than ARs AScRs
Quill Killian Better Hide R Die 252	Posted - 2013.08.30 06:40:00 - [57] - Quote CCP: Do what you will with the mass driver. I've used it since the closed beta, well before it was the "flavor of the month," and I plan to continue using it. Just know this GÇö the moment you nerf it (again), you'll see folks hopping to the next FotM weapon, and the long-time users of those weapons will end up getting nerfed, too, because of the FotM crowd. So, to the folks yipping for a nerf, beware what you wish for. You might wind up regretting when the FotM crowd comes your way.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 89	Posted - 2013.08.30 07:03:00 - [58] - Quote Time to kill is such a non-sense statistic for mass drivers. Even if both players directly engage each other, any other weapon is not going to hit every single shot. But what's more important is that mass drivers can make themselves extremely elusive. The best mass drivers strafe like mad men in close combat (they'd be silly not to) and still hit every single shot because it's practically impossible to miss with it. Especially combined with the disorienting elements of being hit by the grenades, this alone creates a major imbalance. But even more significantly, a mass driver can stay behind cover for 90% of the time, either popping out for a split second to launch a round, or even hitting the target behind cover. The little targeting triangles are essentially a wall-hack which makes this tactic incredibly easy. A rifle user has to stay within line of sight during 100% of their damage output, which makes it practically impossible to compete with mass drivers who really know what they are doing. Yes, the mass driver has poor effective range (which is ridiculous considering it's a grenade launcher) and limited ammunition which may be keeping it at bay to some extend, but in close to mid range it really is an "I win" button and it's not that hard to get into this range. It's not bad enough to make me quit the game, but it saddens me that CCP apparently has no opinion on it other than "let's wait for the statistics". Everything recently seems to be about statistics and metrics. You know, it is possible to analyse these things beforehand... That's what game designers should be paid for. My prediction is that the situation is going to gradually escalate until we will get the inevitable correction in 1.5 or 1.6. Let's see if I'm wrong. Personally I think it would be horrible to just nerf the mass driver as it is, because that would just make it a worse weapon without addressing the fundamental problem with it. There are many possible changes which would make the weapon more interesting and balanced without necessarily reducing it's potential efficiency at the hands of a skilled user. One such possibility would be the minimum flight time which has been brought up a few times. Another would be gradual damage fall-off for explosives, so higher accuracy is actually rewarded. I would much rather see a change like that, than simply reduced clip size or damage properties. If you only tweak values as a response to metrics, you run the risk of losing sight of the bigger picture. This isn't an RPG after all.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 89	Posted - 2013.08.30 07:05:00 - [59] - Quote D legendary hero wrote: Idk why everyone is scared of mass drivers after 1.4... Can you imagine all the ARs (milita to proto) that with auto aim will be hitting you with every shot from 0 -75 meters range with anywhere between the minimum 467 dps to the averge max 690 dps? I mean your average suit already dies fast to ARs, and they miss alot of shots. imagine when auto aim makes them a flipping aim bot? you won't b ablr to use any gun other than ARs There is no such thing as auto aim... I suggest you read the aiming blog again because it describes very well how the aim assists are going to work. It's not going to change anything other than to close the gap between DS3 and mouse a little bit.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 89	Posted - 2013.08.30 07:12:00 - [60] - Quote McFurious wrote: demonkiller 12 wrote: The problem is everyone shield tanks - 1 flux and 1 std mass driver round kills most non heavies itd be the same against armor tanker - 2 shots from a std scrambler and a std or adv locus grenade would kill most non heavies Armor tanker here. Everything kills me. Any advantage armor has is negated by the fact that I'm very slow and easy to hit. My advance minmatar suit has better survivability than my proto gallente. Can't wait for 1.4 buffs. Even still, I don't have much of a problem against MD's. They kill me sometimes but so does everything else. So here's some tips: Either take them on at very close range where they risk hurting themselves or long range because most MD players can't hit a tank that's sitting still at long range but don't stand still, ffs, use that sprint-strafe action. Even better: flank. If you hear that unmistakable MD sound, act accordingly. Much like being too close to a heavy with a HMG, you try not to fight them where they're strongest. The problem is, a mass driver is a light weapon that can be fitted on anything, particularly on light and fast suits which are able to dictate range themselves. And the mass driver is scarier in close- to mid-range combat than the HMG. If you get into extreme close range they might blow themselves up, but chances are that they take you down with them. It's hardly a satisfying solution... When I use the mass driver, I'm certainly not scared of anybody getting close to me, quite the opposite.



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