what if i hide in a hole with an anti tank weapon?

you cant see me but i see you and i can fuk you up

just because you in a tank it doesnt mean you dont need infantry

this is the point of the post. read it carefully and you will get it

what i'm talking about is vehicles and infantry working side by side without one overpowering the other or dividing them into separate areas i.e vehicle vs everything, infantry vs infantry, av vs tank

Heres a problem with you basing some of this on real life
A RPG-29 from the 80s is still able to penetrate the frontal hull armor of a Challenger II main battle tank, a vehicle with 10 years of armor advancement between it and the RPG-29

So honestly if you want to base tank and AV balance on real life its going to give properly positioned AV players many great ways to bust tanks while the tank itself only gets countermeasures such as flare launchers or Nakidka camouflage to lower the enemies ability to lock on them

I honestly really dont know where people get this idea that real life tanks are impervious to your average soldier on foot if he has the gear for it, I mean its not like we spent decades advancing weapon technology to make destroying them easier and easier which is why they are primarily infantry support vehicles now

an idea was mentioned elsewhere so please tell me what you think

1: reduce large turrets effectiness against infantry, making them primarily AV oriented
2: increase effectivness of small turrets against infantry
3:inscrease survivability slightly

this would have the effect of wanting to fill your tank with gunners against infantry, and have a squad oriented tank.

would this be in line with your idea?

can you input any changes to this idea to make it more in line with your vision?

i don't think that is drastic enough to fix the underlying problems

what else would you add/change to the equation?

that is basicly what i said but it needs to be a drastic change to create a distinctive gap between the vehicles and infantry rather than just shifting that damage to a different weapon but increasing survivability at the same time.

80% reduction to damage to infantry basicly accounts for the inability to target a small fast moving target such as a person. the other turrets should be more supressive as the primary role of a tank should be to provide heavy av support.
80% reduction to damage taken from infantry weapons doesn't mean we cant take the vehicle out but adds survivability when infantry is everywhere.

overall infantry survival against tanks is up meaning less proto av is needed and vehicle survival is up meaning lower loss bills for them and less hiding and more supporting.

no more 1 man army's in tanks or av

they need to have SOME anti infantry ability or they are restricted to anti tank.

and there would be no reason to bbring out tanks if their only role is to kill other tanks, whos only role is to kill the first tanks....

it would create a system where there are two seperate fights going on, tanks trying to kill each other for fun but not really helpful to the team, and infantry actuallly fighting for ground.

they would still be able to kill infantry as they will still be putting out allot of dps even with a reduction through all the weapon systems onboard. what you dont get in direct kills you will make back in sheer volume of assists

im an AV player. my only role is to take out vehicles. if i see infantry i attempt to flee first as i'm not suited to that in my current role.

add in the fact they can now be used as cover or mobile cru's without the threat of everyone using av on them from all ranges then the enemy would be daft not to bring out their own to take it out.

makes sence the massive assist mobile wouldnt be too bad concidering its effectivness against vehicles would be top notch.

i actually realy like this balance

i'm glad someone can see the point i'm trying to make.

and reduce the effectiveness of av on tanks by a similar amount.

it just came to me a few mins ago that tanks kill mercs too easy and that mercs kills tanks too easy. it just dawned on me that the whole mechanic of tanks vs merc is badly broken and thats why it will never truly be balanced.

now i'm going to base this purely on RL and i believe this is the only way to offer the balance we need to save both sides of the argument.

I can not agree with that because of shoots registration issue in this patch - many times I was shooting people that get 0 dmg, and I was clearly hear sound notification that they shield is getting hit.

Beside that I think that after cutting HAV dmg overall HAV vs. HAV battles are on very good level, but HAV vs. Infantry need some tweaks at favor of Blaster HAV - but in the first place we have to deal with dmg registration issue.

an idea was mentioned elsewhere so please tell me what you think

1: reduce large turrets effectiness against infantry, making them primarily AV oriented
2: increase effectivness of small turrets against infantry
3:inscrease survivability slightly

this would have the effect of wanting to fill your tank with gunners against infantry, and have a squad oriented tank.

would this be in line with your idea?

can you input any changes to this idea to make it more in line with your vision?

Heres a problem with you basing some of this on real life
A RPG-29 from the 80s is still able to penetrate the frontal hull armor of a Challenger II main battle tank, a vehicle with 10 years of armor advancement between it and the RPG-29

So honestly if you want to base tank and AV balance on real life its going to give properly positioned AV players many great ways to bust tanks while the tank itself only gets countermeasures such as flare launchers or Nakidka camouflage to lower the enemies ability to lock on them

I honestly really dont know where people get this idea that real life tanks are impervious to your average soldier on foot if he has the gear for it, I mean its not like we spent decades advancing weapon technology to make destroying them easier and easier which is why they are primarily infantry support vehicles now

Ow god you used Support and Vehicle in the same sentence /gasp, you just killed every 12 year old in this game !

In that case I believe I deserve a medal for my pre teen slaughter

in real life tanks fill the role of "super long range combat" that infantry cant fit into (outside snipers)

int he game they cant really do that.

so by your "real life" definition of what tanks should be in the game they shouldnt be doing much of anything, ever, just sitting around lobbing artillery at each other and the ocasional infantry encampment from distances longer than what our redline even alows

so care to come up with something relevant to the game we are playing rather than trying to fit things into a real life model?

I can imagine you getting half a stiffy thinking you made a point with all your QQ

Oh look, heres something I grabbed just by googling "tank combat role" and it explains a tanks role in urban combat as infantry support, how about that
Oh and your "Tanks are super long range combat in the real world" falls apart since we have other better and cheaper options to use, granted those options dont exist in this game

Tanks as a bombarding death machine have been on the decline for decades, longer than you or I have likely been alive, and have shifted into a new role
In other words they didnt want to die so they adapted, maybe you should do the same

Inb4 QQ about how you did adapt but still die, or you ironically complain about render distance while being in a corp that exploited the hell out of a true invisibility glitch

Provide video proof to CCP that is truly is a glitch, that it can be exploited, and can be triggered by the player whenever they please

Thats how you bring stuff to their attention, not by using it to cheat your asses off


So far your "reason and logic" is you whining like a ***** telling people there is this glitch out there most people havent experienced and then making limp dicked thinly veiled threats about how you can exploit it while at the same time attempting to take some asinine sort of moral high ground saying "but we totally wont this time"

And you wonder why I dont take you or anything you say about balance seriously

bugg reports have been filed, just like with invisability.

picture evidence was forwarded along with it since video isnt feasable with the tools we have.

that was a month ago, unlike the invisable shotgunner spree wich got fixed in like 2 weeks

this has been exploited for a few months now, its nothing new.

loads of people are aware of this glitch on BOTH sides, and aparently just because YOU havnt heard of it means it doesnt exsist.

Honestly I dont believe you
What I do believe is that render distances inside the vehicle are bad and most drivers get tunnel vision anyway so describe a lot of things as invisible when they arent minus the actual swarm cluster itself since its rendering is handled poorly

I also find it hard to believe that something that has been exploited for months according to you has had no evidence brought to public light in all that time, that all the tankers that have apparently experienced it for months have waited until the past few weeks to start bringing it up en masse, and that for months and hundreds of matches played with thousands of players that not one single time that I have gone Av hunting have I encountered this bug that is being widely exploited according to you


Bring some proof if you want to make these claims otherwise its easy as hell to shoot down and exposes the weakness of your position, especially since its all you keep restating


Edit: Taking off in like 15 minutes, got laundry to do and a new sink faucet to install and other things to do today

i agree, tanks NEEDS to be infantry centric

infantry should want tanks around, they should be benificial to the team in many ways, but limited in others.

i see tanks being more important on open ground



tanks should be about defending their infantry, providing mobile cover and a place to hide, supporting infantry with cover fire and protecting them from enamy tanks

i think tanks need a damage reduction and a survivability boost (or an AV nerf causing a survivability boost) but their overall killing power should depend ont heir infantry.


the assaist machine you came up with is a nice representation of this.

thgey can still kill infantry, but they are more about focused firepower over a whole squad then a solo killing machine.

alone a tank should have trouble killing infantry off

in a squad the combine fire should make quick work of enamy infantry.


that would ensure a tank has a role, but isnt the be all end all bettlefield presence, as well as make sure that its not a complete pushover.


i think tanks should be more about defence than offence