That doesn't change the fact, they are already powerful as ****, why are they being improved. Maybe you could make a teleporting insta hit version while ya there....oh wait invisible swarms are already here.

What you the magical CCP are not understanding is that if someone is 350m away from my tank he is way out of render range, this gives him invisible swarms, so he fires one volley, at the flight speed, before they even hit, he already launched volley number 2 so we get 2 sets of invisi swarms, no reliable hit detection display on where they came from, another beautiful invisi swarm benefit. So we have to keep running to avoid, though we are running blind, possibly moving into an area that is still in his view and range.
The only viable way to tank will be redline rail sniping, on a rocker postion, so we can roll over hit a few shots then roll back into cover. So beta had spider tanking, we have trapdoor spider tanking, without the ability to detect motion.

AV should not be touched in udate 1.4, It should be configured and released with Update 1.5, AV and Vehicles should ALWAYS be configured, tested and released together. Half your problem right now is the fact you went ahead and released ADV/PRO/OFFICER(rare) grade AV, whilst vehicles have bugged properties(resistances wrongly penalized, reps not working correctly[tho this benfits amor tanks it is nontheless a bug, PG skill not working right etc.) and are only available in MLT(Sica and Soma), ADV MLT(Vayu and Falchion), and STD(Madruger and Gunloggi). Which instantly bring inbalance, that has been left for months, and the 1st sign of any AV or Vehicle adjustments come in the form of making forge guns easier to use and swarmers deadlier.

As several people mentioned above this post, I would like to point out that you will have to re-lock your target between shots with the swarm launcher. It's not a case of lock->fire->0.2sec delay->fire. It's Lock->fire-0.2sec delay->lock->fire->0.2sec delay.

We'll be taking a look at the plasma cannon along with all AV weapons as part of the vehicle work we are doing in 1.5.

How are you going to give us meaningful feedback before you even try the changes? Or is your brain so awesome that you can look into the future? And while we are on the subject of feedback, guys, a few one liners and a catch word here and there really doesn't help. If you really care about improving the game, then please structure your feedback in a way that will:

1. List specific issues and the circumstance when it happened. We then put these in a weekly report and discuss them with the dev team on ways to address this.

2. Provide insight on why you think this is happening, if you can. Translation, explain as best as you can on how to reproduce the error/bug you encountered.

The patch notes are there to let players know what changes are coming so they can plan their gameplay accordingly, not so that people can theory craft before hand on how things will work before they actually try it.

+1 excellent point. Be careful though. CCP doesnt like it when people prove them wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. What I see here soon is the locking of all swarm threads and then the banning of all of us who have proved our case that a buff was the last thing that swarms needed.

No we can not see the future... but we can do math?

Hey the armour buff will also be like a nerf to ascr..I don't need to see the future to know that..its like saying by me eating more and more everyday I can't say that ill gain weight cuz I can't see the future, bodybuilders don't see the future they use math and that's what gets results

but.... how can he say "we dont know how it will go, you cant tell the future" when they present the math in front of us?
Wait i got it, this is what hes saying:

"Swarm launcher wrecks vehicals. Now swarm launcher shoots faster. You can not assume swarm launcher will wreck vehicals faster because it has not happened yet"

No we can not see the future... but we can do math?

I feel sorry for Tanks (since my alt is a tanker), but when 1.4 comes around, I see dropships being completely useless until 1.5. Seems like we are going to be seeing a "Dark Era" for dropship pilots soon, since we all know the time between 1.4 and 1.5 is looking close to a month at the least...

This is a 9th grade math level question. What is so hard about it? CCP is blowing smoke when they say that they are play their own game extensively. You have ZERO time to prevent your tank from being blown apart in those 3.8 seconds. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO CUT IT!!! All I can do is shake my head and wonder who makes these decisions.

are you smarter than a 5th grader? CCPs vehical improvements is making me dumber

Nope. I dumb tank driver. all kidding aside possibly, but one thing is for sure. Blam and wolfman are not. They have the listening skills of a 5th grader, but they are no better at math or logic than a kid.

hahah i reallyy dont wanna agree with you. Like, i reaaaallyyy dont wanna but i have no choice, im sorry wolfman but please dont make these same mistakes Blam did, this is terrorable just listen to us the thread is up there in the link and theres plenty of other stuff here on the fourms, just do the right thing and take our advice. We dont know how to code or make artword, design or whatever but we do play the game and we know whats balanced. We dident call for that buff anywere, we called for the exact oppisite so listen to us. Patience is about gone with this slip up

Proto Vehicles in 1.5/6

Everybody chill the *** out.

Really, pigs have functional wings where you live?

I guess we should count ourselves lucky they forgot AV grenades?

nah, those are going to get buffed to 6000 damage and carrying 5 at STD.

CCP is most certainly going to buff the living crap out of vehicles in 1.5, cause not only have vehicle players been QQing for a while now, they will up their QQ to insane levels once the swarms get changed.

Tank turkeys are getting their proto tanks back in 1.5, so they will once again be an invincible force to reckon with (instead of just being mildly invincible like they are now). And aside from the plasma cannon, AV will likely get a huge nerf in 1.5, and the vehicles will be out of control OP. Heck, proto AV now is really the only effective thing against std tanks (aside from the adv forge, which is about right), we're going to need super-officer AV to replace proto to deal with the proto tank scrubs that will come out of 1.5

Ugh, wish they could have kept proto tanks out for good, as it is still unbalanced in favor of the tanks now, even with our proto AV.

CCP is most certainly going to buff the living crap out of vehicles in 1.5, cause not only have vehicle players been QQing for a while now, they will up their QQ to insane levels once the swarms get changed.

Tank turkeys are getting their proto tanks back in 1.5, so they will once again be an invincible force to reckon with (instead of just being mildly invincible like they are now). And aside from the plasma cannon, AV will likely get a huge nerf in 1.5, and the vehicles will be out of control OP. Heck, proto AV now is really the only effective thing against std tanks (aside from the adv forge, which is about right), we're going to need super-officer AV to replace proto to deal with the proto tank scrubs that will come out of 1.5

Ugh, wish they could have kept proto tanks out for good, as it is still unbalanced in favor of the tanks now, even with our proto AV.

I feel sorry for Tanks (since my alt is a tanker), but when 1.4 comes around, I see dropships being completely useless until 1.5. Seems like we are going to be seeing a "Dark Era" for dropship pilots soon, since we all know the time between 1.4 and 1.5 is looking close to a month at the least...

Were all f*cked, CCP has lost it. To think i made a post yesterday of how i thought their making progress and how pleased we are with the update of 1.4... so disapointing

I feel sorry for Tanks (since my alt is a tanker), but when 1.4 comes around, I see dropships being completely useless until 1.5. Seems like we are going to be seeing a "Dark Era" for dropship pilots soon, since we all know the time between 1.4 and 1.5 is looking close to a month at the least...

CCP is most certainly going to buff the living crap out of vehicles in 1.5, cause not only have vehicle players been QQing for a while now, they will up their QQ to insane levels once the swarms get changed.

Tank turkeys are getting their proto tanks back in 1.5, so they will once again be an invincible force to reckon with (instead of just being mildly invincible like they are now). And aside from the plasma cannon, AV will likely get a huge nerf in 1.5, and the vehicles will be out of control OP. Heck, proto AV now is really the only effective thing against std tanks (aside from the adv forge, which is about right), we're going to need super-officer AV to replace proto to deal with the proto tank scrubs that will come out of 1.5

Ugh, wish they could have kept proto tanks out for good, as it is still unbalanced in favor of the tanks now, even with our proto AV.

In 1.4, they decided lolrandomAVbuff to swarms for some reason.

lol random? Tell that to the LLAV drivers that go 24-0 because swarms can't deal with them. Haha, "random."

And tanks aren't just dropping left and right to swarms. Use the active modules, don't play like you should be totally invincible, and its easy to get 10+ kills without dying. Just like in almost any dropsuit. Play smart, retreat when needed, you'll be just fine.

Drop ships are a whole other story. They need some kind of flare or something. But I've had them outrun swarms I've shot at them with almost no issue. Its rare to actually take a DS down with swarms.

Seriously. Swarms at this point aren't that good. They have their job, buts its no "win button." This whole bitching about issues that haven't even happened yet is so silly. Especially since the forge gun will still be objectively better in every possible way.

but.... how can he say "we dont know how it will go, you cant tell the future" when they present the math in front of us?
Wait i got it, this is what hes saying:

"Swarm launcher wrecks vehicals. Now swarm launcher shoots faster. You can not assume swarm launcher will wreck vehicals faster because it has not happened yet"

No we can not see the future... but we can do math? Theyve already done math in their dev blog
*Swarm Launcher base lock-on time has been increased to 1.4 from 1.2 and its fire interval has been reduced from 2 to 0.3
*The Swarm Launcher Operation skill bonus has been changed from increasing the clip size to reducing the lock-on time by 5%
"The proto swarm lock on time is 1.4 now but is buffing to 1.05. Fire interval is 2 seconds but is buffing to .3. How do youknow thats a buff? it dident happen yet... what are you, a future teller or somethen?"

This is a 9th grade math level question. What is so hard about it? CCP is blowing smoke when they say that they are play their own game extensively. You have ZERO time to prevent your tank from being blown apart in those 3.8 seconds. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO CUT IT!!! All I can do is shake my head and wonder who makes these decisions.

lol random? Tell that to the LLAV drivers that go 24-0 because swarms can't deal with them. Haha, "random."

And tanks aren't just dropping left and right to swarms. Use the active modules, don't play like you should be totally invincible, and its easy to get 10+ kills without dying. Just like in almost any dropsuit. Play smart, retreat when needed, you'll be just fine.

Drop ships are a whole other story. They need some kind of flare or something. But I've had them outrun swarms I've shot at them with almost no issue. Its rare to actually take a DS down with swarms.

Seriously. Swarms at this point aren't that good. They have their job, buts its no "win button." This whole bitching about issues that haven't even happened yet is so silly. Especially since the forge gun will still be objectively better in every possible way.

While this does sound like I'm definitely not going to be pulling my vehicles out for the next month, which really sucks for the 8mil sp i have in vehicles, but there are some lights at the end of the tunnel.

First, with the changes to squad/team vision, I foresee vehicles not sticking out and drawing fire as bad as they currently do.

Then future thinking, AV countermeasures, vehicles with signature radii that affect how long a swarm launcher takes to lock on, and modules/skills to modify as needed.

Now how are they going to buff forge/AV nades so that we can get countermeasures to those...?

While this does sound like I'm definitely not going to be pulling my vehicles out for the next month, which really sucks for the 8mil sp i have in vehicles, but there are some lights at the end of the tunnel.

First, with the changes to squad/team vision, I foresee vehicles not sticking out and drawing fire as bad as they currently do.

Then future thinking, AV countermeasures, vehicles with signature radii that affect how long a swarm launcher takes to lock on, and modules/skills to modify as needed.

Now how are they going to buff forge/AV nades so that we can get countermeasures to those...?

Well, this thread has been enlightening.

interesting point, i like the part were the entire enemy team no longer sees your tank whenever a single enemy aims at it, but those countermeasures are 2-5 months away

exmaple......im dissapointed in you. out of all people you should know better than to expect those in half a year. we are too busy making swarms more balanced so those av guys have a fighting chance

Be quiet. You're not a pilot, so you don't understand. I hardly ever see a decent pilot acting like a idiot. More like, fleeing, and still dies, while going from cover to cover for a full 30 seconds or so.

Why doesn't CCP just give a buff to swarm damage to LAVs and leave the damage on HAVs and drop ships the same. The over buffing of LAVs is the only reason I could find that would be reason for an AV buff. HAVs are, from my experience, weak to AV because they are so slow but LAV can easily speed beyond swarms. If they do get his, they have near the same defense of a militia HAV. No LAV should have the capability of possessing nearly the same defense of an HAV.

If HAV's hadn't been nerfed from what they were in Chromosome, I think it would have been ok. I actually enjoyed going after HAV's with squad mates due to the satisfaction of destroying up such a powerful adversary.

CCP, you are horrible at developing Dust.

lol random? Tell that to the LLAV drivers that go 24-0 because swarms can't deal with them. Haha, "random."

And tanks aren't just dropping left and right to swarms. Use the active modules, don't play like you should be totally invincible, and its easy to get 10+ kills without dying. Just like in almost any dropsuit. Play smart, retreat when needed, you'll be just fine.

Drop ships are a whole other story. They need some kind of flare or something. But I've had them outrun swarms I've shot at them with almost no issue. Its rare to actually take a DS down with swarms.

Seriously. Swarms at this point aren't that good. They have their job, buts its no "win button." This whole bitching about issues that haven't even happened yet is so silly. Especially since the forge gun will still be objectively better in every possible way.

You're obviously playing something different.

Just a couple of glaring mistakes in your thread ...

First your OP claims ... "Then, intelligent ppl like this guy above puts in some very analitcal and correct input, and the only response we get from CCP so far is:"
Yet the following statement was quoted in the "guy above"s post, so he was responding to the dev.

Secondly further down you state ... "No we can not see the future... but we can do math?" ... well you'll know what an incomplete equation looks like then ... look again and this time factor in the additional reloads from the reduced clip sizes ... it's easy to see "thats gonna hurt me more" without looking at the complete equation, but I guess you knew that already or you wouldn't have missed it out.

Also have you seen a patch that didn't contain anything that wasn't in the patch notes ... how do you know there's not a slight adjustment to base resists for the different vehicles, just to smooth things over till 1.5 ... have you played 1.4 yet ?

How about "yeah were not getting any proto nuthen for 1.5 or any time soon. There was no mention of new content, just rebalancing what we have" ... again have you seen Patch Notes for 1.5 ? ... has there been mention of there not being new content ? ... then don't make statements like "yeah were not getting any proto nuthen for 1.5 or any time soon." just to rally your cause, cos all it does is discredit your legitimate complaint.

Here's another one ... "interesting point, i like the part were the entire enemy team no longer sees your tank whenever a single enemy aims at it, but those countermeasures are 2-5 months away" ... here's one from the Patch Notes for you ... "Shared passive scanner vision for squads disabled (results of active scanners are still shared with squads)" ... and as to the second part, really, can you link the devblog this was stated in please ?

6 sets of nerfs now in a row, more than 6 nerfs in total more like 15 i bet maybe more

Lets not forget the blast radius is now the entire map

You guys don't think that they dropped your PG (1.1?) to prepare the field for better variants?

That's been my theory all along.