there's multiple missiles per shot, so It's fine.

Yea, we know. They are **** per missile. But, there's multiple missiles per shot, so It's fine.

Yea, we know. They are **** per missile. But, there's multiple missiles per shot, so It's fine.

Yea, we know. They are **** per missile. But, there's multiple missiles per shot, so It's fine.

Cycled missile > standard MD

Lets take the average of 2 missiles splash damage, we will use the the fragmented because it has the largest blast.
104 damage per missile. 2 missiles= 208 damage if 3 missles hit it would be 312 damage.

I'm glad someone said it. I had they same idea but I was like, 'naw, some one could not miss something so obvious, I must be missing something' LOL

The standard lv1 mass driver has blast radius of 4 meters, a splash of 116 damage and a direct damage of 242.
It has a clip of 6 and 18 shots total. It can fire one shot a second and a reload time of 4 seconds.

There are several different kinds of proto large missiles, so we will go through all of them.
XT-201s: Direct damage is 507, splash is 104 and blast radius is 3m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
XT-201 Cycled: Direct damage is 456.3, spash is 93.6 and blast radius is 1.8m. fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
XT-201 Fragmented: Direct damage is 418, splash is 104 and blast radius is 4m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
XT-201 Accelerated: Direct damage is 507. splash is 104 and blast radius is 3m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.

As you can see the standard 1v1 mass driver has more splash radius and splash damage than the proto missile launchers mounted on tanks. A significant meter on most of them, only .4m more than fragmented but more than double the range than splash radius than the cycled.

MISSILE SPREAD

Now, the large missile turrents should have an advantage of payloads per firing interval, they should but the spread of the missiles are uneven and just as in accurate, your missiles will never travel the same flight path as lightning will never strike the same spot twice. This being said, you usally hit an infantry soldier with the splash of 1-3 missiles, never 4 but every so often 1, funny how that works. Standard mass driver only has to hit with its single round.

---

Lets take the average of 2 missiles splash damage, we will use the the fragmented because it has the largest blast.
104 damage per missile. 2 missiles= 208 damage if 3 missles hit it would be 312 damage.
Keep in mind, the fire interval is 2.5 seconds, so the mass driver will have fired 2 rounds and will most likely have a third in the air before the tank fires its second volly.
2 standard mass driver rounds are 232 damage and the third would bump it to 348 damage.
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Yes there are some direct hits with both weapons, but both are seldom and are devastating
The standard mass driver can quite often out DPS proto large missles, as evident here.

Now that we know the standard mass driver dwarfs proto tank missiles, lets check out the proto mass driver... the boundless.
159.7 direct damage, 76.6 splash, blast radius of 6.6m, clip 8, reload of 4s and 25% higher fire rate than the standard MDs.
yep... 6.6m splash. more than double the splash on most large missile turrents. almost 4 times the proto cycled.
Add in the MD operation skill to even use the boundless (requires LV5, 5% blast radius per level) and the splash range is 8.25 splash radius... more than double the most anti infaintry missle, the proto fragmented, and nearly triple that of the other 2. not even gona talk about cycled... kinda depressing. throw on some damage mods and some profficentcy and it is much more potent than a tank wanting to blow stuff up

Just some nit picking here: if it shoots four shots, why do you only account for 2-3?
Secondly, did you account for Mass Driver - Missile Travel times?

did you not read my statement about the missile spread? i am a caldari enforcer proto missile tank, they get bonuses to large missiles and i also dab with the standard MD. I explained how the missles dont hit while the MD does

You're missing the point. Tank = very high survailbty and infinite ammo. Mass driver users are squishy next to tanks. Fail post sir.

Yea, we know. They are **** per missile. But, there's multiple missiles per shot, so It's fine.

because it is extreemly rare for all 4 missles to hit, the only time they would is if you are about 6 to 10 meters away from your target, but even then its not guaranteed because of the unpredictable missile spread, it is never consistant. but by then you would be AV naded to death and wouldent bother shooting because your trying to get away. The travel times would favor the mass driver, its a CQC weapon and missles are long to medium range, you do not CQC with missles

Yea, I did. That's what makes them ****; the terrible ass spread. Fix the spread and hit detection, and it will be fine.

My handheld gun should be stronger than a mounted gun gtfo seriously you know ****

At what point did i say a mass driver user is harder to kill than a tank? your missing the point, fail troll sir, im comparing the damage output of a missile tanker to a MD user, not the survive-ability of a drop-suit to tank

The standard lv1 mass driver has blast radius of 4 meters, a splash of 116 damage and a direct damage of 242.
It has a clip of 6 and 18 shots total. It can fire one shot a second and a reload time of 4 seconds.

There are several different kinds of proto large missiles, so we will go through all of them.
XT-201s: Direct damage is 507, splash is 104 and blast radius is 3m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
XT-201 Cycled: Direct damage is 456.3, spash is 93.6 and blast radius is 1.8m. fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
XT-201 Fragmented: Direct damage is 418, splash is 104 and blast radius is 4m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
XT-201 Accelerated: Direct damage is 507. splash is 104 and blast radius is 3m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.

As you can see the standard 1v1 mass driver has more splash radius and splash damage than the proto missile launchers mounted on tanks. A significant meter on most of them, only .4m more than fragmented but more than double the range than splash radius than the cycled.

MISSILE SPREAD

Now, the large missile turrents should have an advantage of payloads per firing interval, they should but the spread of the missiles are uneven and just as in accurate, your missiles will never travel the same flight path as lightning will never strike the same spot twice. This being said, you usally hit an infantry soldier with the splash of 1-3 missiles, never 4 but every so often 1, funny how that works. Standard mass driver only has to hit with its single round.

---

Lets take the average of 2 missiles splash damage, we will use the the fragmented because it has the largest blast.
104 damage per missile. 2 missiles= 208 damage if 3 missles hit it would be 312 damage.
Keep in mind, the fire interval is 2.5 seconds, so the mass driver will have fired 2 rounds and will most likely have a third in the air before the tank fires its second volly.
2 standard mass driver rounds are 232 damage and the third would bump it to 348 damage.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes there are some direct hits with both weapons, but both are seldom and are devastating
The standard mass driver can quite often out DPS proto large missles, as evident here.

Now that we know the standard mass driver dwarfs proto tank missiles, lets check out the proto mass driver... the boundless.
159.7 direct damage, 76.6 splash, blast radius of 6.6m, clip 8, reload of 4s and 25% higher fire rate than the standard MDs.
yep... 6.6m splash. more than double the splash on most large missile turrents. almost 4 times the proto cycled.
Add in the MD operation skill to even use the boundless (requires LV5, 5% blast radius per level) and the splash range is 8.25 splash radius... more than double the most anti infaintry missle, the proto fragmented, and nearly triple that of the other 2. not even gona talk about cycled... kinda depressing. throw on some damage mods and some profficentcy and it is much more potent than a tank wanting to blow stuff up

It hasent been fixed sence early-mid chormosome (last build) and sadly because of that the missles simply do not hit, you never hit with all four and its a treat to hit with 3. There is a lot of wasted damage potential because the missiles are so inacurate and have pisspoor splash radius compared to the infaintry grenade launcher

Allow me to just nit pick some more here. I'm not against nor for your argument, just trying to clear some things up.

You are applying the variable of spread to Large Missiles, that is what you have just stated. Therefore you can not apply all 4 shots into factoring, that is what you have said.

However you are implying that the Mass Driver is always hitting its mark as well, that it is in point blank range where travel time is not even a factor.

So the Missile launcher in your scenario never hits 100% but the mass driver does? That seems biased. I understand that missiles spread without control but with the mass driver there is travel time, a shot can surely be missed.

Small turrets aren't that hard to beat.

I would rather use a standard flaylock than a proto small cycle missile- they're absolutely terrible.

It certainly can, your right. That depends on the skill of the mass driver user, as well as the missile tanker. Not sure if you ever missile tanked before but it is extreemly easy to miss all 4 shots with fragmented missiles, its just as possible for the tanker to completely miss. though the mass driver user should have an advantage in hitting infaintry considering most missiles have a range of 3ms and mass drivers have a range from 4m to 8.8 depending on what MD their using

I've used large missiles and yes they need fixing.
But thank you for admitting a little bias here.

Also, why are you comparing a non-broke weapon to a severely broke weapon?

Turret. Turret TURRET. There is no N in turret. Not sure why but that makes me angry could just be me.

Honestly, I've never understood it. Is that a word somewhere? brb, google.

EDIT:It is a word!

turrent
In architecture, a turret (from Italian: torretta, little tower; Latin: turris, tower) is a small tower that projects vertically from the wall of a building such as a medieval castle. ...

thanks google.

ikr? But if they just made the spread just right (a fixed spread instead of this BS random spread), then fix hit detection (Still a problem with missiles), then the small splash radius would be fine, as it's multiple missiles firing off making a bigger splash.

Mass driver is wielded by a squishy infantry player easily killed by everything in the game.

Missiles are on a tank... that is only vulnerable to specific AV weaponry and has a crap ton of health.

If anything they need to be nerfed, same goes for blasters.

even the accelerated can't hit an installation at 100 meters with anything more than the first or second missiles. 3 is a massive surprise.

of course, it's also the only explosive weapon with damage falloff as well. because ccp will fix everything except tanks.

it doesn't help that large missiles lose efficiency over distances. Kinda bs considering missile installations can shoot the whole map at max efficiency

I'm glad someone said it. I had they same idea but I was like, 'naw, some one could not miss something so obvious, I must be missing something' LOL

You're missing the point. Tank = very high survailbty and infinite ammo. Mass driver users are squishy next to tanks. Fail post sir.

Small turrets aren't that hard to beat.

I would rather use a standard flaylock than a proto small cycle missile- they're absolutely terrible.

Mass driver is wielded by a squishy infantry player easily killed by everything in the game.

Missiles are on a tank... that is only vulnerable to specific AV weaponry and has a crap ton of health.

If anything they need to be nerfed, same goes for blasters.

He already pointed out he's comparing the damage output of missile turrets vs mass drivers, not the survivability of the platforms using aforementioned weapons. Why do you refuse to miss that point?

He's talking about large.

As it was proven before the TAR nerf that they were better than large blasters.

Yea, we know. They are **** per missile. But, there's multiple missiles per shot, so It's fine.

lol large cycled are useless.

-XOXO

I'm not sure where to do with this post Bc on one hand, the missile turret absolutely decimates armor tanks, but is worthless for killing infantry compared the the mass driver. The mass driver can kill tanks though, of it is a shield tank and the merc has a few flux grenades on him. Perhaps the answer is making the fragmented like a beefed up version of the boundless mass driver. Increase missile range 50m, increase blast radius to 8m, and make splash damage 75 and direct damage 150. It would be a spam machine but to be fair, even a soma could take it out and tanks in general aren't hard to kill. Just food for thought.

He's talking about large.

As it was proven before the TAR nerf that they were better than large blasters.

Allow me to just nit pick some more here. I'm not against nor for your argument, just trying to clear some things up.

You are applying the variable of spread to Large Missiles, that is what you have just stated. Therefore you can not apply all 4 shots into factoring, that is what you have said.

However you are implying that the Mass Driver is always hitting its mark as well, that it is in point blank range where travel time is not even a factor.

So the Missile launcher in your scenario never hits 100% but the mass driver does? That seems biased. I understand that missiles spread without control but with the mass driver there is travel time, a shot can surely be missed.

Hey example... yes you know who I am. Ahhhhhh that fan mail of yours was quite exquisite!

Missiles were good as a AI weapon. Again, CCP never took my advice, 2 models of missiles, large and small: lock on AV, low splash, but made to penetrate vehicle armor, and a dumbfire high splash but low hit dmg, made specifically for clearing infantry.

I dunno man. Ppl are jus dumb, im very impressed how popular "i wont allow your proof to prove to me your right" is in this community

Allow me to just nit pick some more here. I'm not against nor for your argument, just trying to clear some things up.

You are applying the variable of spread to Large Missiles, that is what you have just stated. Therefore you can not apply all 4 shots into factoring, that is what you have said.

However you are implying that the Mass Driver is always hitting its mark as well, that it is in point blank range where travel time is not even a factor.

So the Missile launcher in your scenario never hits 100% but the mass driver does? That seems biased. I understand that missiles spread without control but with the mass driver there is travel time, a shot can surely be missed.

Exmaple....you have to understand. They dont use this weapon so they dont want it to be adjusted upwards. But they DO use the MD and they cannot stand having it nerfed/changed at all. How will they be able to easily get their kills if they dont have this crutch?


Oh and killing Exmaple with the MD does elicit some awesome rage. He rages against my std MD constantly when I use it. LOL!!

Except mass driver is easy mode. The splash necessitates a hit even when the aim is ****. Missiles are a challenge to land more than a single hit and it takes a while before your next shot. Hence even a basic mass driver is better.

Personally it isn't a direct comparison and works better as a way of proving the mass driver as OP rather than making a meaningful argument about this game. It really proves nothing.

LOL That's a joke right? High survivability? Packed Lai Dai do around 2000 damage considering the bonus against armor. High survivability? I'd LOVE to know what tank you're using so I can drive it.

Is this a joke? A tank can out live any merc. That's my point.....guess you didn't catch it

Is this a joke? A tank can out live any merc. That's my point.....guess you didn't catch it

So wait I don't understand. Exmaple you said that both are broke. Now are you saying that the Mass Driver is OP and that Large Missile Turrets are broke or that infantry splash weapons are > than large splash turrets

I really think you shouldn't compare the two. You are bringing up the serious and necessary issue of how broken large missile turrets are while mingling it with the heated debate on mass drivers. It's just a bad combo man that's how you get people refusing to listen. They take it that you want to nerf mass drivers and bring up a single argument to be beat to death like baby chimp in a Gorilla cage.

Nerfing Infantry weapons according to Large Vehicle Weapons does not seem right but buffing Large Vehicle Weapons according to Infantry Weapons makes more sense. It's like how converse statements don't mean the same as the original statement.

I honestly think this should be purely on the nature of Large Missiles and what needs to be done. It would be more productive. It's like how most Buff Small Railgun Threads are quite serious and full of content.

So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it

Im saying converse statements to let ppl know that both weapons are broken, yes. This is straight proof that both weapons are not balanced, it shows how terrabad the missiles are by being outdone by standard lv infaintry guns and shows the exact calculations of how devistating mass drivers are, expescially on proto level. this is undisputable math, it shows both are broken in oppisite extreems

It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die

Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla

I don't think that works though. In order to have the numbers viable you would have to throw in a splash weapon that is balanced. Small Missile Turrets could work or maybe flaylock. Forge guns no.

You see when you use a broke and a "OP" weapon for reference, you either prove that one is OP or that the other is broken but not both. Including a non-broke/OP weapon for a third reference would make more sense because then you would have a basis of how broke or OP the two weapons are. That way you could prove that one is OP and that one is broken by reference of the balanced weapon.

The point to OP weapons is that they are unbalanced, that they are superior by all means. So by using a balanced weapon, if the mass driver is better than it by all means, it is OP. Using that same balanced weapon, you could take large missile launchers and prove that they are broken because they would be sub par to the balanced weapon.

I feel like a professor of arguments right now.
Stear clear Breakin Stuff, now is not the time.

Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win

So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it

It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die

Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla