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Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
897
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 15:23:00 -
[61] - Quote
FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:FLAYLOCK Steve wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:The standard lv1 mass driver has blast radius of 4 meters, a splash of 116 damage and a direct damage of 242. It has a clip of 6 and 18 shots total. It can fire one shot a second and a reload time of 4 seconds.
There are several different kinds of proto large missiles, so we will go through all of them. XT-201s: Direct damage is 507, splash is 104 and blast radius is 3m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly. XT-201 Cycled: Direct damage is 456.3, spash is 93.6 and blast radius is 1.8m. fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly. XT-201 Fragmented: Direct damage is 418, splash is 104 and blast radius is 4m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly. XT-201 Accelerated: Direct damage is 507. splash is 104 and blast radius is 3m. Fire interval is 2.5 seconds and fires 4 shots per volly.
As you can see the standard 1v1 mass driver has more splash radius and splash damage than the proto missile launchers mounted on tanks. A significant meter on most of them, only .4m more than fragmented but more than double the range than splash radius than the cycled.
MISSILE SPREAD
Now, the large missile turrents should have an advantage of payloads per firing interval, they should but the spread of the missiles are uneven and just as in accurate, your missiles will never travel the same flight path as lightning will never strike the same spot twice. This being said, you usally hit an infantry soldier with the splash of 1-3 missiles, never 4 but every so often 1, funny how that works. Standard mass driver only has to hit with its single round.
Lets take the average of 2 missiles splash damage, we will use the the fragmented because it has the largest blast. 104 damage per missile. 2 missiles= 208 damage if 3 missles hit it would be 312 damage. Keep in mind, the fire interval is 2.5 seconds, so the mass driver will have fired 2 rounds and will most likely have a third in the air before the tank fires its second volly. 2 standard mass driver rounds are 232 damage and the third would bump it to 348 damage. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes there are some direct hits with both weapons, but both are seldom and are devastating The standard mass driver can quite often out DPS proto large missles, as evident here.
Now that we know the standard mass driver dwarfs proto tank missiles, lets check out the proto mass driver... the boundless. 159.7 direct damage, 76.6 splash, blast radius of 6.6m, clip 8, reload of 4s and 25% higher fire rate than the standard MDs. yep... 6.6m splash. more than double the splash on most large missile turrents. almost 4 times the proto cycled. Add in the MD operation skill to even use the boundless (requires LV5, 5% blast radius per level) and the splash range is 8.25 splash radius... more than double the most anti infaintry missle, the proto fragmented, and nearly triple that of the other 2. not even gona talk about cycled... kinda depressing. throw on some damage mods and some profficentcy and it is much more potent than a tank wanting to blow stuff up You're missing the point. Tank = very high survailbty and infinite ammo. Mass driver users are squishy next to tanks. Fail post sir. LOL That's a joke right? High survivability? Packed Lai Dai do around 2000 damage considering the bonus against armor. High survivability? I'd LOVE to know what tank you're using so I can drive it. Is this a joke? A tank can out live any merc. That's my point.....guess you didn't catch it Jey steve, ive already comented on how this is comparing the superiority of the standard lv1 mass driver vs proto tank missiles, this is not a dropsuit vs vehical hull debate, its weapons |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
897
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:18:00 -
[62] - Quote
Anyone else bothered that standard mass drivers are better than tanks? |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1557
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:23:00 -
[63] - Quote
So wait I don't understand. Exmaple you said that both are broke. Now are you saying that the Mass Driver is OP and that Large Missile Turrets are broke or that infantry splash weapons are > than large splash turrets
I really think you shouldn't compare the two. You are bringing up the serious and necessary issue of how broken large missile turrets are while mingling it with the heated debate on mass drivers. It's just a bad combo man that's how you get people refusing to listen. They take it that you want to nerf mass drivers and bring up a single argument to be beat to death like baby chimp in a Gorilla cage.
Nerfing Infantry weapons according to Large Vehicle Weapons does not seem right but buffing Large Vehicle Weapons according to Infantry Weapons makes more sense. It's like how converse statements don't mean the same as the original statement.
I honestly think this should be purely on the nature of Large Missiles and what needs to be done. It would be more productive. It's like how most Buff Small Railgun Threads are quite serious and full of content. |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
898
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:38:00 -
[64] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:So wait I don't understand. Exmaple you said that both are broke. Now are you saying that the Mass Driver is OP and that Large Missile Turrets are broke or that infantry splash weapons are > than large splash turrets
I really think you shouldn't compare the two. You are bringing up the serious and necessary issue of how broken large missile turrets are while mingling it with the heated debate on mass drivers. It's just a bad combo man that's how you get people refusing to listen. They take it that you want to nerf mass drivers and bring up a single argument to be beat to death like baby chimp in a Gorilla cage.
Nerfing Infantry weapons according to Large Vehicle Weapons does not seem right but buffing Large Vehicle Weapons according to Infantry Weapons makes more sense. It's like how converse statements don't mean the same as the original statement.
I honestly think this should be purely on the nature of Large Missiles and what needs to be done. It would be more productive. It's like how most Buff Small Railgun Threads are quite serious and full of content. Im saying converse statements to let ppl know that both weapons are broken, yes. This is straight proof that both weapons are not balanced, it shows how terrabad the missiles are by being outdone by standard lv infaintry guns and shows the exact calculations of how devistating mass drivers are, expescially on proto level. this is undisputable math, it shows both are broken in oppisite extreems. So your correct, im not saying missiles will be fixed by nefing mds. Im saying buff missiles and nerf mass drivers, it is not enough to put large missile vollys on the same terms as a grenade launcher, the volly of missiles needs to be more devistating than the grenade launcher. They should not compare at all |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
229
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:41:00 -
[65] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:Hey example... yes you know who I am. Ahhhhhh that fan mail of yours was quite exquisite! So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die |
Bojo The Mighty
Zanzibar Concept
1557
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:45:00 -
[66] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote: Im saying converse statements to let ppl know that both weapons are broken, yes. This is straight proof that both weapons are not balanced, it shows how terrabad the missiles are by being outdone by standard lv infaintry guns and shows the exact calculations of how devistating mass drivers are, expescially on proto level. this is undisputable math, it shows both are broken in oppisite extreems
I don't think that works though. In order to have the numbers viable you would have to throw in a splash weapon that is balanced. Small Missile Turrets could work or maybe flaylock. Forge guns no.
You see when you use a broke and a "OP" weapon for reference, you either prove that one is OP or that the other is broken but not both. Including a non-broke/OP weapon for a third reference would make more sense because then you would have a basis of how broke or OP the two weapons are. That way you could prove that one is OP and that one is broken by reference of the balanced weapon.
The point to OP weapons is that they are unbalanced, that they are superior by all means. So by using a balanced weapon, if the mass driver is better than it by all means, it is OP. Using that same balanced weapon, you could take large missile launchers and prove that they are broken because they would be sub par to the balanced weapon.
I feel like a professor of arguments right now. Stear clear Breakin Stuff, now is not the time. |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
898
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:47:00 -
[67] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:Hey example... yes you know who I am. Ahhhhhh that fan mail of yours was quite exquisite! So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
229
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:51:00 -
[68] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:Hey example... yes you know who I am. Ahhhhhh that fan mail of yours was quite exquisite! So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
898
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:54:00 -
[69] - Quote
Bojo The Mighty wrote:Exmaple Core wrote: Im saying converse statements to let ppl know that both weapons are broken, yes. This is straight proof that both weapons are not balanced, it shows how terrabad the missiles are by being outdone by standard lv infaintry guns and shows the exact calculations of how devistating mass drivers are, expescially on proto level. this is undisputable math, it shows both are broken in oppisite extreems
I don't think that works though. In order to have the numbers viable you would have to throw in a splash weapon that is balanced. Small Missile Turrets could work or maybe flaylock. Forge guns no. You see when you use a broke and a "OP" weapon for reference, you either prove that one is OP or that the other is broken but not both. Including a non-broke/OP weapon for a third reference would make more sense because then you would have a basis of how broke or OP the two weapons are. That way you could prove that one is OP and that one is broken by reference of the balanced weapon. The point to OP weapons is that they are unbalanced, that they are superior by all means. So by using a balanced weapon, if the mass driver is better than it by all means, it is OP. Using that same balanced weapon, you could take large missile launchers and prove that they are broken because they would be sub par to the balanced weapon. I feel like a professor of arguments right now. Stear clear Breakin Stuff, now is not the time. Lol sadly i have not used a flaylock or more balanced weapon, the only argument i could mske is flaylocks still get kills and large missiles dont but i dont have the experience to reduce the amount of bias statments and assumptions to make the comparission.if someone else could do it its deffenetly open for discusiion. Tho this thread lacks a controle, a balanced weapon it is still getting the points across, dident say anything that wasent true |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
898
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 17:56:00 -
[70] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:Hey example... yes you know who I am. Ahhhhhh that fan mail of yours was quite exquisite! So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win Yep, your maken out pretty well, keep up the good work.speaking if fanmail, i asked you if you thought the mass driver was balsnced. you are very expert with the md, how you do feel about standard mds being better tha proto tank missiles? And mds as a whole? |
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hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
229
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 18:08:00 -
[71] - Quote
So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it[/quote] It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die[/quote] Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla[/quote] Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win[/quote] Yep, your maken out pretty well, keep up the good work.speaking if fanmail, i asked you if you thought the mass driver was balsnced. you are very expert with the md, how you do feel about standard mds being better tha proto tank missiles? And mds as a whole?[/quote]
ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART AFTER_____ Well for the record I didn't get that fanmail.
Also I am devoted dropships on one alt, and half devoted tanker on the other (tanker has 4.5 mil SP).
I can easily say vehicles need a buff. Especially RL. And bring the MD into a rocket thread is, understandable, but MD is a completely different weapon than the RL.
Yes I am a expert with the MD .
IMHO the only change to MD's shouldn't be direct. I think all explosives should do their MAX damage on impact, MAX SPLASH damage in the center of the explosion, and damage should drop depending on where the target is in the radius. (least damage at the edge) If this change was implemented t grenades and mass drivers, I think it would be enough, BUT if it wasn't there could be another nerf to something else. If to many things were changed about the MD, then it would be the next lazor.
Screwed up the quoting |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
898
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 18:27:00 -
[72] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die[/quote] Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla[/quote] Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win[/quote] Yep, your maken out pretty well, keep up the good work.speaking if fanmail, i asked you if you thought the mass driver was balsnced. you are very expert with the md, how you do feel about standard mds being better tha proto tank missiles? And mds as a whole?[/quote]
ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART AFTER_____ Well for the record I didn't get that fanmail.
Also I am devoted dropships on one alt, and half devoted tanker on the other (tanker has 4.5 mil SP).
I can easily say vehicles need a buff. Especially RL. And bring the MD into a rocket thread is, understandable, but MD is a completely different weapon than the RL.
Yes I am a expert with the MD .
IMHO the only change to MD's shouldn't be direct. I think all explosives should do their MAX damage on impact, MAX SPLASH damage in the center of the explosion, and damage should drop depending on where the target is in the radius. (least damage at the edge) If this change was implemented t grenades and mass drivers, I think it would be enough, BUT if it wasn't there could be another nerf to something else. If to many things were changed about the MD, then it would be the next lazor.
Screwed up the quoting[/quote] Makes sence, i agree with your idea almost entirely. My problem is the best proto missile has a splash range of 4m and none of their missiles are never in range to hit ppl because of the crazy missile spread. Cantcontrole it cuz they are unpredictable, they always fly different paths per volly. The proto boundless on theother hand, has a splash of 8.4m after skills and always hits were you aim it. I think 8.4 is abit much, hbu? |
hackerzilla
Defenders of the Helghast Dream
229
|
Posted - 2013.08.23 18:33:00 -
[73] - Quote
Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla[/quote] Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win[/quote] Yep, your maken out pretty well, keep up the good work.speaking if fanmail, i asked you if you thought the mass driver was balsnced. you are very expert with the md, how you do feel about standard mds being better tha proto tank missiles? And mds as a whole?[/quote]
ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART AFTER_____ Well for the record I didn't get that fanmail.
Also I am devoted dropships on one alt, and half devoted tanker on the other (tanker has 4.5 mil SP).
I can easily say vehicles need a buff. Especially RL. And bring the MD into a rocket thread is, understandable, but MD is a completely different weapon than the RL.
Yes I am a expert with the MD .
IMHO the only change to MD's shouldn't be direct. I think all explosives should do their MAX damage on impact, MAX SPLASH damage in the center of the explosion, and damage should drop depending on where the target is in the radius. (least damage at the edge) If this change was implemented t grenades and mass drivers, I think it would be enough, BUT if it wasn't there could be another nerf to something else. If to many things were changed about the MD, then it would be the next lazor.
Screwed up the quoting[/quote] Makes sence, i agree with your idea almost entirely. My problem is the best proto missile has a splash range of 4m and none of their missiles are never in range to hit ppl because of the crazy missile spread. Cantcontrole it cuz they are unpredictable, they always fly different paths per volly. The proto boundless on theother hand, has a splash of 8.4m after skills and always hits were you aim it. I think 8.4 is abit much, hbu?[/quote] It's actually 8.25 but the boundless hardly does any damage, still useable of course, but that would only be a problem it that was the radius of let's say the freedom. Also I think the RL hit detection needs a buff :/ |
Exmaple Core
Ancient Exiles
899
|
Posted - 2013.08.24 00:56:00 -
[74] - Quote
hackerzilla wrote:Exmaple Core wrote:hackerzilla wrote:So was your mass driver. Even more so than dusts finest missile tank, and somehow you think it's skill to kill someone with it? You can't troll or aim, biggest scrub I've seen to date. "i killed your scout suit with a mass driver so I must be good right :D" lol you clearly don't have to be smart to use the weapon Ethire. That line made my fan mail worth it It's funny that when some people run out of things to say, they start making things up. And btw I went over the recording of that game, and it was pretty fun when you pulled out the MD then... FAILED! But in all seriousness, if you were willing to change you fit the MD, then why not change suits? Adapt or die Bcuz im not a fotm scrub like you specing into the best suit and weapons. I like a challenge, its why i play all the hardest classes. easy mode dont make you better, jus makes you scrubzilla Lol but you didn't know I'm new edens biggest hipster I specced into proto MD before it was FOTM (or is it?). Anyways I couldn't give 2 ***** if I was using FOTM or not. To me it seems like a win-win; I get OP gear, and I also get more fanmail! See? Win-win[/quote] Yep, your maken out pretty well, keep up the good work.speaking if fanmail, i asked you if you thought the mass driver was balsnced. you are very expert with the md, how you do feel about standard mds being better tha proto tank missiles? And mds as a whole?[/quote]
ONLY PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PART AFTER_____ Well for the record I didn't get that fanmail.
Also I am devoted dropships on one alt, and half devoted tanker on the other (tanker has 4.5 mil SP).
I can easily say vehicles need a buff. Especially RL. And bring the MD into a rocket thread is, understandable, but MD is a completely different weapon than the RL.
Yes I am a expert with the MD .
IMHO the only change to MD's shouldn't be direct. I think all explosives should do their MAX damage on impact, MAX SPLASH damage in the center of the explosion, and damage should drop depending on where the target is in the radius. (least damage at the edge) If this change was implemented t grenades and mass drivers, I think it would be enough, BUT if it wasn't there could be another nerf to something else. If to many things were changed about the MD, then it would be the next lazor.
Screwed up the quoting[/quote] Makes sence, i agree with your idea almost entirely. My problem is the best proto missile has a splash range of 4m and none of their missiles are never in range to hit ppl because of the crazy missile spread. Cantcontrole it cuz they are unpredictable, they always fly different paths per volly. The proto boundless on theother hand, has a splash of 8.4m after skills and always hits were you aim it. I think 8.4 is abit much, hbu?[/quote] It's actually 8.25 but the boundless hardly does any damage, still useable of course, but that would only be a problem it that was the radius of let's say the freedom. Also I think the RL hit detection needs a buff :/[/quote]
Yup, hit detection needs to be fixed, wel see how it is in 1.4. weird how the md, flaylock and mostly grenades have zero hit detection issues but missiles do. But the boundless can have profficentcys, damage mods and an 8 round clip. can end up doing alot of damage over 8.25m with 8 rounds. its almost a sleek locus grenade per shot |
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