Pages: 1 2 3 [4] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Marc Rime
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 13:45:00 -
[91] - Quote
Well, he does sort of have a point in that the closer (network wise) you are to a server, the less latency you get...
...which no doubt is why CCP doesn't host the dust battle servers in London next to their TQ cluster.
The horse is dead. Now stop beating it. |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 15:11:00 -
[92] - Quote
Sky Dovahkiin wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Sky Dovahkiin wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Sky Dovahkiin wrote: I totally agree that better servers would be better but there are many server rental companies in every country and that would solve everything,CCP would just have to pay those companies to use their servers and the technical support would be done by those third party companies,just like DICE did with BF3 and we all know that works.
You still don't get it. Battlefield has over 100k different games each a fragment away from each other with no relation whatsoever. Dust 514 EVERY FIGHT is non-instanced. Its physically occurring somewhere in New Eden at a certain specific location every time. I can fly to a planet in Eve look at it and can tell if there is a fight actively going on the ground or not. Yes,i know,and i think its badly done at the moment.What you got now is 5 servers(if im not mistaken) that send all information to one main server and back again.If you had the rental servers you would have lots of servers sending the data to the main server. Maybe youre right and it wouldnt work and maybe im totally wrong. Im just trying to help,but the fact that its connected to eve might make it the same thing or even worse with the rental system. You are indeed mistaken, there is no limit to the number of physical servers used to create individual battle instances. You can't run an MMO like Dust 514 on a handful of servers, and CCP wouldn't be foolish enough to attempt that. CCP is no stranger to distributed networking, as EVE requires a much more complicated server architecture which they are handling very well. It is absolutely critical though that all of these servers are part of the internal CCP network, because otherwise you could not trust the data they send to the master server (e.g. how many SP and ISK each player earned). Also you cannot outsource server resources in an MMO, not just because of the trust issues, but also because providing reliable server resources is what (some) active players pay for. The situation is much different with Battlefield, where DICE has no ongoing financial model for the multiplayer part, and each server is completely isolated, so does not have to be trusted. I agree and i know its an mmo but thats not the issue,the only reason why rented servers wouldnt work is the human factor,and by that i mean the data could be compromised. If CCP had servers in every country and you could rent them,the game would have less lag, dont you agree?
There are still two flaws with that reasoning:
1) You seem to make the assumption that CCP cannot provide sufficient server resources by themselves, which is unfounded. Server resources for an MMO must be financed through the MMOs financial model. Asking people to essentially pay for server resources would just be asking them to pay more money in general. There is no sign at all that CCP is struggling to pay for the required server resources.
2) Servers in every country would only help if everybody playing on a server would be from the same country. This would create way too much separation between the players though, not to mention that the player base is much too small for this to be feasible. Right now we barely have enough players to get consistent matches going in each region, let alone each country.
Also, most people on good connections can get ping times of ~50ms to at least one of the regions, which is perfectly fine for online gaming. The advantage of scrubbing off a few more ms by playing on a server in the same country is not really worth creating an additional separation between players. |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:44:00 -
[93] - Quote
You can have servers in each country and still play with people from the other side of the world,but it shares the load and reduces the lag... The reason you find it bearable is because you're american. The world is not just america! Many years from now when youre playing with no lag thanks to this system i'm describing,you'll all feel very dumb..lol I give up...lol You're all right and i'm wrong... |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
322
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:46:00 -
[94] - Quote
Sky Dovahkiin wrote:You can have servers in each country and still play with people from the other side of the world,but it shares the load and reduces the lag... The reason you find it bearable is because you're american. The world is not just america! Many years from now when youre playing with no lag thanks to this system i'm describing,you'll all feel very dumb..lol I give up...lol You're all right and i'm wrong...
and when the rapture happens all your enemies will be punished... |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:55:00 -
[95] - Quote
Sky Dovahkiin wrote:You can have servers in each country and still play with people from the other side of the world,but it shares the load and reduces the lag... The reason you find it bearable is because you're american. The world is not just america! Many years from now when youre playing with no lag thanks to this system i'm describing,you'll all feel very dumb..lol I give up...lol You're all right and i'm wrong...
Sorry, that's not possible. All realtime interaction during a battle has to happen in the same process. Even if you'd find a way to share the load between servers on different physical locations, the data would still have to travel between the locations and you'd gain nothing other than to increase latency for everybody.
Also I'm not American, I'm living much closer to you than you might think. This is not a threat. |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:59:00 -
[96] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:Sky Dovahkiin wrote:You can have servers in each country and still play with people from the other side of the world,but it shares the load and reduces the lag... The reason you find it bearable is because you're american. The world is not just america! Many years from now when youre playing with no lag thanks to this system i'm describing,you'll all feel very dumb..lol I give up...lol You're all right and i'm wrong... Sorry, that's not possible. All realtime interaction during a battle has to happen in the same process. Even if you'd find a way to share the load between servers on different physical locations, the data would still have to travel between the locations and you'd gain nothing other than to increase latency for everybody. Also I'm not American, I'm living much closer to you than you might think. This is not a threat.
Ok,but youre speaking as if technology will stall... |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 17:32:00 -
[97] - Quote
Just one more thing... You said that it wouldnt solve anything with the technology we have atm... But i disagree, because even with the present tech, i only experience lag when im in corp battles with corps from far away regions. I'll even go as far as saying that if this game was properly programmed, i wouldnt feel any lag... I got fiber optics but im selfless when i say there should be better and more servers because it will take a long time until every one has fiber optics... This discussion just turned into a battle of proud minds, because IT IS OBVIOUS that the only way to solve the lag problem for everyone would be more servers, and most people said that more servers wouldnt work and lag more...That is not true. People Forget that if everyone had fiber optics there would be no lag, for example...and when nano technology becomes cheap and ordinary there will be a lot more servers than we have know.Its all about the time it takes for processors to calculate mathematical equations, its about the way data is processed and transfered,so you will eventually realise that i was right...Think outside the box... |
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:48:00 -
[98] - Quote
I'll try to address your various points individually, because you are kind of jumping around between different issues.
1) Technology will improve, but we cannot solve the fundamental problem that it takes time for data to travel around the world. This will be solved through faster connectivity, better servers are irrelevant for this problem.
2) If you experience lag against corps from other regions then this is either because you are playing in their region (a problem that more servers cannot solve) or what you experience is actually them lagging because they are playing in your region (again, not a problem multiple servers can solve).
3) It's not about the time it takes for processors to calculate. As long as servers are fast enough to handle requests at a respectable tick rate, adding additional server resources won't do anything to improve lag.
4) Whether you have fibre optics or not makes no difference, because this only affects the speed of data between your computer and your nearest host. When data has to travel across the globe, it will have to travel through many hosts and it will still be delayed significantly. Your personal connection has no affect on that at all. Again, right now it is physically impossible to play a realtime game with people across the globe, without some significant latency. Only improving the state of internet connectivity around the world is going to make a difference with this. Aside from that, the only thing games can do is to hide the effects of lag as much as possible or only put you up against local players.
If CCP servers could not handle the bandwidth or processing requirements for the game, then this would indeed be a problem that can be fixed by throwing more physical hardware at it. But there is no indication that this is actually the case. |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:59:00 -
[99] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I'll try to address your various points individually, because you are kind of jumping around between different issues.
1) Technology will improve, but we cannot solve the fundamental problem that it takes time for data to travel around the world. This will be solved through faster connectivity, better servers are irrelevant for this problem.
2) If you experience lag against corps from other regions then this is either because you are playing in their region (a problem that more servers cannot solve) or what you experience is actually them lagging because they are playing in your region (again, not a problem multiple servers can solve).
3) It's not about the time it takes for processors to calculate. As long as servers are fast enough to handle requests at a respectable tick rate, adding additional server resources won't do anything to improve lag.
4) Whether you have fibre optics or not makes no difference, because this only affects the speed of data between your computer and your nearest host. When data has to travel across the globe, it will have to travel through many hosts and it will still be delayed significantly. Your personal connection has no affect on that at all. Again, right now it is physically impossible to play a realtime game with people across the globe, without some significant latency. Only improving the state of internet connectivity around the world is going to make a difference with this. Aside from that, the only thing games can do is to hide the effects of lag as much as possible or only put you up against local players.
If CCP servers could not handle the bandwidth or processing requirements for the game, then this would indeed be a problem that can be fixed by throwing more physical hardware at it. But there is no indication that this is actually the case.
Youre saying stuff i said earlier and the way a server is set and the way a game is programmed does affect lattency... |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7505
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
Sky Dovahkiin wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I'll try to address your various points individually, because you are kind of jumping around between different issues.
1) Technology will improve, but we cannot solve the fundamental problem that it takes time for data to travel around the world. This will be solved through faster connectivity, better servers are irrelevant for this problem.
2) If you experience lag against corps from other regions then this is either because you are playing in their region (a problem that more servers cannot solve) or what you experience is actually them lagging because they are playing in your region (again, not a problem multiple servers can solve).
3) It's not about the time it takes for processors to calculate. As long as servers are fast enough to handle requests at a respectable tick rate, adding additional server resources won't do anything to improve lag.
4) Whether you have fibre optics or not makes no difference, because this only affects the speed of data between your computer and your nearest host. When data has to travel across the globe, it will have to travel through many hosts and it will still be delayed significantly. Your personal connection has no affect on that at all. Again, right now it is physically impossible to play a realtime game with people across the globe, without some significant latency. Only improving the state of internet connectivity around the world is going to make a difference with this. Aside from that, the only thing games can do is to hide the effects of lag as much as possible or only put you up against local players.
If CCP servers could not handle the bandwidth or processing requirements for the game, then this would indeed be a problem that can be fixed by throwing more physical hardware at it. But there is no indication that this is actually the case. Youre saying stuff i said earlier and the way a server is set and the way a game is programmed does affect lattency...
1. Theory of Relativity is the limit here. 2. More servers would complicate and lag this problem even MORE. 3. Improving client talk has far greater effect than server expansion. 4. Hence why more servers are always bad
|
|
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:33:00 -
[101] - Quote
I know the main reason for lag is client talk, i can still lag if i dont use my mic and im done with this discussion. If you really think better servers and better programming wouldnt solve anything,than youre just plain wrong. You started up with the theory of relativity...not me.But i actually understand it. |
Bittersteel the Bastard
WarRavens League of Infamy
162
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:34:00 -
[102] - Quote
This went from me laughing at IWS trolling to me not wanting to live on this earth anymore. |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
5
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 19:39:00 -
[103] - Quote
Bittersteel the Bastard wrote:This went from me laughing at IWS trolling to me not wanting to live on this earth anymore.
And if you wasnt his friend or wasnt a girl,he would criticise you for not using comas just now...lol |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
326
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 20:42:00 -
[104] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I'll try to address your various points individually, because you are kind of jumping around between different issues.
1) Technology will improve, but we cannot solve the fundamental problem that it takes time for data to travel around the world. This will be solved through faster connectivity, better servers are irrelevant for this problem.
2) If you experience lag against corps from other regions then this is either because you are playing in their region (a problem that more servers cannot solve) or what you experience is actually them lagging because they are playing in your region (again, not a problem multiple servers can solve).
3) It's not about the time it takes for processors to calculate. As long as servers are fast enough to handle requests at a respectable tick rate, adding additional server resources won't do anything to improve lag.
4) Whether you have fibre optics or not makes no difference, because this only affects the speed of data between your computer and your nearest host. When data has to travel across the globe, it will have to travel through many hosts and it will still be delayed significantly. Your personal connection has no affect on that at all. Again, right now it is physically impossible to play a realtime game with people across the globe, without some significant latency. Only improving the state of internet connectivity around the world is going to make a difference with this. Aside from that, the only thing games can do is to hide the effects of lag as much as possible or only put you up against local players.
If CCP servers could not handle the bandwidth or processing requirements for the game, then this would indeed be a problem that can be fixed by throwing more physical hardware at it. But there is no indication that this is actually the case.
this is a strangely coherent dust u player. well done. |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
7
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:13:00 -
[105] - Quote
low genius wrote:Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I'll try to address your various points individually, because you are kind of jumping around between different issues.
1) Technology will improve, but we cannot solve the fundamental problem that it takes time for data to travel around the world. This will be solved through faster connectivity, better servers are irrelevant for this problem.
2) If you experience lag against corps from other regions then this is either because you are playing in their region (a problem that more servers cannot solve) or what you experience is actually them lagging because they are playing in your region (again, not a problem multiple servers can solve).
3) It's not about the time it takes for processors to calculate. As long as servers are fast enough to handle requests at a respectable tick rate, adding additional server resources won't do anything to improve lag.
4) Whether you have fibre optics or not makes no difference, because this only affects the speed of data between your computer and your nearest host. When data has to travel across the globe, it will have to travel through many hosts and it will still be delayed significantly. Your personal connection has no affect on that at all. Again, right now it is physically impossible to play a realtime game with people across the globe, without some significant latency. Only improving the state of internet connectivity around the world is going to make a difference with this. Aside from that, the only thing games can do is to hide the effects of lag as much as possible or only put you up against local players.
If CCP servers could not handle the bandwidth or processing requirements for the game, then this would indeed be a problem that can be fixed by throwing more physical hardware at it. But there is no indication that this is actually the case. this is a strangely coherent dust u player. well done.
I find a lot of incoherence. First of all faster connectivity is faster servers and if everyone had fiber optics it would lose latency lol Second of all,server processors need to make mathematical equations especially in an mmo,a server is not a router lol Third my personnal connection has EVERYTHING to do it, if i have a better connection i dont lag, you mustbe really dumb and are trying to act smart and wasting my time...That doesnt work on me lol Fourth CCP servers CANT handle this game and that IS OBVIOUS!!! Fifth if the game was properly programmed and there were more servers to share the load of the flow of information it helps Translation to layman...With better connection(fiber optics) and better and more servers it gets less lag... I dont want to seem arrogante but i was fixing computers before the CCP best TECHS were out of their diapers
|
Csikszent Mihalyi
DUST University Ivy League
55
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:23:00 -
[106] - Quote
I'm sorry to disappoint Sky, we just can't all be as smart as you are. * |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
8
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:31:00 -
[107] - Quote
Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:I'm sorry to disappoint Sky, we just can't all be as smart as you are. *
Its not about being smarter,ive just been working with computers longer. |
Dimmu Borgir II
Consolidated Dust
35
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 01:02:00 -
[108] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Sky Dovahkiin wrote: I totally agree that better servers would be better but there are many server rental companies in every country and that would solve everything,CCP would just have to pay those companies to use their servers and the technical support would be done by those third party companies,just like DICE did with BF3 and we all know that works.
You still don't get it. Battlefield has over 100k different games each a fragment away from each other with no relation whatsoever. Dust 514 EVERY FIGHT is non-instanced. Its physically occurring somewhere in New Eden at a certain specific location every time. I can fly to a planet in Eve look at it and can tell if there is a fight actively going on the ground or not.
Then can I clarify that you're basically admitting that the programming is shoddy Iron Wolf? You're admitting that that's where the problem lies and that it's not necessarily the data transfer that's the problem, it's the size of the packets of data being transferred that are too large, too complicated and not sufficiently streamlined, ergo the programming is shoddy? Is that what you're saying? That's interesting.
Oh and by the way, nothing is physically occurring anywhere, it's virtually occurring somewhere...It would be crazy if it were physically occurring somewhere... a Matrix level of crazy!!! hehe |
Sky Dovahkiin
WAR LIONS
8
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 01:18:00 -
[109] - Quote
Dimmu Borgir II wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Sky Dovahkiin wrote: I totally agree that better servers would be better but there are many server rental companies in every country and that would solve everything,CCP would just have to pay those companies to use their servers and the technical support would be done by those third party companies,just like DICE did with BF3 and we all know that works.
You still don't get it. Battlefield has over 100k different games each a fragment away from each other with no relation whatsoever. Dust 514 EVERY FIGHT is non-instanced. Its physically occurring somewhere in New Eden at a certain specific location every time. I can fly to a planet in Eve look at it and can tell if there is a fight actively going on the ground or not. Then can I clarify that you're basically admitting that the programming is shoddy Iron Wolf? You're admitting that that's where the problem lies and that it's not necessarily the data transfer that's the problem, it's the size of the packets of data being transferred that are too large, too complicated and not sufficiently streamlined, ergo the programming is shoddy? Is that what you're saying? That's interesting. Oh and by the way, nothing is physically occurring anywhere, it's virtually occurring somewhere...It would be crazy if it were physically occurring somewhere... a Matrix level of crazy!!! hehe
He doesnt even know what a packet is, he thinks servers are routers and that they dont need to process the data packets... |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |