DUST Search - Connection and lag issues.RENT SERVERS.

Sky Dovahkiin wrote:

Csikszent Mihalyi wrote:

Sky Dovahkiin wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Sky Dovahkiin wrote:

I totally agree that better servers would be better but there are many server rental companies in every country and that would solve everything,CCP would just have to pay those companies to use their servers and the technical support would be done by those third party companies,just like DICE did with BF3 and we all know that works.

You still don't get it.

Battlefield has over 100k different games each a fragment away from each other with no relation whatsoever.

Dust 514 EVERY FIGHT is non-instanced. Its physically occurring somewhere in New Eden at a certain specific location every time. I can fly to a planet in Eve look at it and can tell if there is a fight actively going on the ground or not.

Yes,i know,and i think its badly done at the moment.What you got now is 5 servers(if im not mistaken) that send all information to one main server and back again.If you had the rental servers you would have lots of servers sending the data to the main server.
Maybe youre right and it wouldnt work and maybe im totally wrong.
Im just trying to help,but the fact that its connected to eve might make it the same thing or even worse with the rental system.

You are indeed mistaken, there is no limit to the number of physical servers used to create individual battle instances. You can't run an MMO like Dust 514 on a handful of servers, and CCP wouldn't be foolish enough to attempt that. CCP is no stranger to distributed networking, as EVE requires a much more complicated server architecture which they are handling very well.

It is absolutely critical though that all of these servers are part of the internal CCP network, because otherwise you could not trust the data they send to the master server (e.g. how many SP and ISK each player earned).

Also you cannot outsource server resources in an MMO, not just because of the trust issues, but also because providing reliable server resources is what (some) active players pay for. The situation is much different with Battlefield, where DICE has no ongoing financial model for the multiplayer part, and each server is completely isolated, so does not have to be trusted.

I agree and i know its an mmo but thats not the issue,the only reason why rented servers wouldnt work is the human factor,and by that i mean the data could be compromised.
If CCP had servers in every country and you could rent them,the game would have less lag, dont you agree?


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Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 50	Posted - 2013.08.18 23:32:00 - [1] - Quote You are mistaken about a few minor things: 1) There is no point in "saving space" when it comes to text, please do use paragraphs. 2) The CCP servers are fine. It's a cloud based setup where individual battles are instantiated on dedicated nodes. We are of course _not_ all playing on the same servers. 3) Rented servers will not improve cross region gameplay, because they will still be bound to regions. CCP server farms are located in four different areas of the world, if you can't get a good connection to either of them, you are living somewhere so obscure that it would be hard to find anybody to play with on a local server anyway. Rented servers are not going to happen, it's just completely incompatible with how the game is structured, and it would not provide any significant benefit.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 50	Posted - 2013.08.19 03:15:00 - [2] - Quote Sky Dovahkiin wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sky Dovahkiin wrote: I totally agree that better servers would be better but there are many server rental companies in every country and that would solve everything,CCP would just have to pay those companies to use their servers and the technical support would be done by those third party companies,just like DICE did with BF3 and we all know that works. You still don't get it. Battlefield has over 100k different games each a fragment away from each other with no relation whatsoever. Dust 514 EVERY FIGHT is non-instanced. Its physically occurring somewhere in New Eden at a certain specific location every time. I can fly to a planet in Eve look at it and can tell if there is a fight actively going on the ground or not. Yes,i know,and i think its badly done at the moment.What you got now is 5 servers(if im not mistaken) that send all information to one main server and back again.If you had the rental servers you would have lots of servers sending the data to the main server. Maybe youre right and it wouldnt work and maybe im totally wrong. Im just trying to help,but the fact that its connected to eve might make it the same thing or even worse with the rental system. You are indeed mistaken, there is no limit to the number of physical servers used to create individual battle instances. You can't run an MMO like Dust 514 on a handful of servers, and CCP wouldn't be foolish enough to attempt that. CCP is no stranger to distributed networking, as EVE requires a much more complicated server architecture which they are handling very well. It is absolutely critical though that all of these servers are part of the internal CCP network, because otherwise you could not trust the data they send to the master server (e.g. how many SP and ISK each player earned). Also you cannot outsource server resources in an MMO, not just because of the trust issues, but also because providing reliable server resources is what (some) active players pay for. The situation is much different with Battlefield, where DICE has no ongoing financial model for the multiplayer part, and each server is completely isolated, so does not have to be trusted.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 51	Posted - 2013.08.19 15:11:00 - [3] - Quote Sky Dovahkiin wrote: Csikszent Mihalyi wrote: Sky Dovahkiin wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sky Dovahkiin wrote: I totally agree that better servers would be better but there are many server rental companies in every country and that would solve everything,CCP would just have to pay those companies to use their servers and the technical support would be done by those third party companies,just like DICE did with BF3 and we all know that works. You still don't get it. Battlefield has over 100k different games each a fragment away from each other with no relation whatsoever. Dust 514 EVERY FIGHT is non-instanced. Its physically occurring somewhere in New Eden at a certain specific location every time. I can fly to a planet in Eve look at it and can tell if there is a fight actively going on the ground or not. Yes,i know,and i think its badly done at the moment.What you got now is 5 servers(if im not mistaken) that send all information to one main server and back again.If you had the rental servers you would have lots of servers sending the data to the main server. Maybe youre right and it wouldnt work and maybe im totally wrong. Im just trying to help,but the fact that its connected to eve might make it the same thing or even worse with the rental system. You are indeed mistaken, there is no limit to the number of physical servers used to create individual battle instances. You can't run an MMO like Dust 514 on a handful of servers, and CCP wouldn't be foolish enough to attempt that. CCP is no stranger to distributed networking, as EVE requires a much more complicated server architecture which they are handling very well. It is absolutely critical though that all of these servers are part of the internal CCP network, because otherwise you could not trust the data they send to the master server (e.g. how many SP and ISK each player earned). Also you cannot outsource server resources in an MMO, not just because of the trust issues, but also because providing reliable server resources is what (some) active players pay for. The situation is much different with Battlefield, where DICE has no ongoing financial model for the multiplayer part, and each server is completely isolated, so does not have to be trusted. I agree and i know its an mmo but thats not the issue,the only reason why rented servers wouldnt work is the human factor,and by that i mean the data could be compromised. If CCP had servers in every country and you could rent them,the game would have less lag, dont you agree? There are still two flaws with that reasoning: 1) You seem to make the assumption that CCP cannot provide sufficient server resources by themselves, which is unfounded. Server resources for an MMO must be financed through the MMOs financial model. Asking people to essentially pay for server resources would just be asking them to pay more money in general. There is no sign at all that CCP is struggling to pay for the required server resources. 2) Servers in every country would only help if everybody playing on a server would be from the same country. This would create way too much separation between the players though, not to mention that the player base is much too small for this to be feasible. Right now we barely have enough players to get consistent matches going in each region, let alone each country. Also, most people on good connections can get ping times of ~50ms to at least one of the regions, which is perfectly fine for online gaming. The advantage of scrubbing off a few more ms by playing on a server in the same country is not really worth creating an additional separation between players.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 51	Posted - 2013.08.19 16:55:00 - [4] - Quote Sky Dovahkiin wrote: You can have servers in each country and still play with people from the other side of the world,but it shares the load and reduces the lag... The reason you find it bearable is because you're american. The world is not just america! Many years from now when youre playing with no lag thanks to this system i'm describing,you'll all feel very dumb..lol I give up...lol You're all right and i'm wrong... Sorry, that's not possible. All realtime interaction during a battle has to happen in the same process. Even if you'd find a way to share the load between servers on different physical locations, the data would still have to travel between the locations and you'd gain nothing other than to increase latency for everybody. Also I'm not American, I'm living much closer to you than you might think. This is not a threat.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 51	Posted - 2013.08.19 18:48:00 - [5] - Quote I'll try to address your various points individually, because you are kind of jumping around between different issues. 1) Technology will improve, but we cannot solve the fundamental problem that it takes time for data to travel around the world. This will be solved through faster connectivity, better servers are irrelevant for this problem. 2) If you experience lag against corps from other regions then this is either because you are playing in their region (a problem that more servers cannot solve) or what you experience is actually them lagging because they are playing in your region (again, not a problem multiple servers can solve). 3) It's not about the time it takes for processors to calculate. As long as servers are fast enough to handle requests at a respectable tick rate, adding additional server resources won't do anything to improve lag. 4) Whether you have fibre optics or not makes no difference, because this only affects the speed of data between your computer and your nearest host. When data has to travel across the globe, it will have to travel through many hosts and it will still be delayed significantly. Your personal connection has no affect on that at all. Again, right now it is physically impossible to play a realtime game with people across the globe, without some significant latency. Only improving the state of internet connectivity around the world is going to make a difference with this. Aside from that, the only thing games can do is to hide the effects of lag as much as possible or only put you up against local players. If CCP servers could not handle the bandwidth or processing requirements for the game, then this would indeed be a problem that can be fixed by throwing more physical hardware at it. But there is no indication that this is actually the case.
Csikszent Mihalyi DUST University Ivy League 55	Posted - 2013.08.20 00:23:00 - [6] - Quote I'm sorry to disappoint Sky, we just can't all be as smart as you are. *