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Sergamon Draco
Rautaleijona Top Men.
93
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 08:41:00 -
[31] - Quote
Denak Kalamari wrote:Honestly, I have a hard time taking anything Sergamon claims seriously, since he seems to have conflicting ideals depending on the argument, makes baseless threats towards innocent people and can barely write coherent sentences. Ok my native language isn`t english,and that`s why my texts may be full of typo and errors.Maybe that is the reason why mr kalamari read my text wrong,In there was no threats against innocent people,only threats i make was against those who is responsible of those crimes.Heck this is my character and it has his own opinions,ideals,motivation etc etc,like real world people will have diffrent point of wiew how they deal with things,and those ideals,opinion,reasons makes world/new eden more intresting place(and is top of the list when asked why i play dust)So mr kalamari you dont take me seriously and are eager to comment my text,ok that is your opinion and it is your right to say so and it is your right also play your character like "people commissar of dust forums" |
Denak Kalamari
Intaki Liberation Front Intaki Prosperity Initiative
344
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 08:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Sergamon Draco wrote: Ok my native language isn`t english,and that`s why my texts may be full of typo and errors.Maybe that is the reason why mr kalamari read my text wrong,In there was no threats against innocent people,only threats i make was against those who is responsible of those crimes.Heck this is my character and it has his own opinions,ideals,motivation etc etc,like real world people will have diffrent point of wiew how they deal with things,and those ideals,opinion,reasons makes world/new eden more intresting place(and is top of the list when asked why i play dust)So mr kalamari you dont take me seriously and are eager to comment my text,ok that is your opinion and it is your right to say so and it is your right also play your character like "people commissar of dust forums"
((I sent you a PM in DUST, please go read it. And stop commenting OOCly on my thread, seriously.)) |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1332
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 09:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sergamon Draco wrote:Mr adamance no im not ruled anger,im seeking justice for those 863 people who died in those days.And justice they and those who are responsible of those 863 deaths,those people who is quilty of those deaths,they will see that they cannot hide or escape from justice or punishment what they deserves.You say those caldari civilians had to help,but i did see how they enjoyed what they did,they enjoyed when they molested girls and womans,they enjoyed when caldari reqular killed baby with knive and they enjoy when.....But no more in that what they did.They were no slavers or blood raides, they was unit from Caldari Marine Expeditionary Forces with mission to kill and wipe out gallente and minmatar civilians,reason why i know is that insignia of Caldari Marine Expeditionary Forces has etch in my mind and i have crossed path with c.m.e.f with same emblems. I simply find this evidence hard to process because it comes from one who almost ironically is shaped by his memories of this.
863 people dying in this sort of incident would be more than enough to make the head lines of every paper cluster wide and in almost all circumstances enough to provoke and internal response from both the Amarr and Caldari into the matters.
If it was as bad as you have said I am sure the authorities from within the Empire and State have done all they can to prosecute these individuals for their heinous acts of unwarranted murder, any who remain are more likely excommunicate from their respective peoples.
In any case as know that the Caldari peoples were recently under the thumb of Tiberius Heth who is now suspect of affiliations with the Templis Dragonaurs, and suspected of terrorist attacks against Gallente people.
How could the Caldari soldiers refuse their leader, loyalty and duty is ingrained in them too deeply. As for your allegations against the Caldari citizens....my experiences with the Caldari peoples have taught me to greatly respect them and their culture, dishonourable acts are frowned upon by Caldari, it seems odd that they would willingly disgrace their ancestors like this.
As for the Amarr **** is a sin, it is enough to say that Amarrian soldiers do not participate in such orgiastic and sinful rituals. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
199
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 15:03:00 -
[34] - Quote
Sergamon Draco wrote:Mr adamance no im not ruled anger,im seeking justice for those 863 people who died in those days.And justice they and those who are responsible of those 863 deaths,those people who is quilty of those deaths,they will see that they cannot hide or escape from justice or punishment what they deserves.You say those caldari civilians had to help,but i did see how they enjoyed what they did,they enjoyed when they molested girls and womans,they enjoyed when caldari reqular killed baby with knive and they enjoy when.....But no more in that what they did.They were no slavers or blood raides, they was unit from Caldari Marine Expeditionary Forces with mission to kill and wipe out gallente and minmatar civilians,reason why i know is that insignia of Caldari Marine Expeditionary Forces has etch in my mind and i have crossed path with c.m.e.f with same emblems.
Soldier, short of a genocidal war (which could some day happen if a lot of very unpleasant people all simultaneously get their way), Caldari military is unlikely to have a mission to wipe out Gallentean and Matari civilians.
Quite simply, they're not that stupid.
You do understand that an insignia is just a symbol? That it can be copied? That it can be worn by anyone?
That said, your visions are unsettling enough that I can see why you would believe them. That, however, makes me question the accuracy of your recollection rather than whether there's something about Caldari civilians that makes them want to engage in barbaric acts against their neighbors.
It's possible, of course, that you (and they) encountered the Templis Dragonaurs, who have a long history as terrorists and who have a special dislike of seeing Caldari living among foreign elements. Under those circumstances, it's entirely possible that the Templis would have demanded that the locals participate or face death for both themselves and their families.
If that's true, then you have seen the Caldari faction that bombed the dome at Nouvelle Rouvenor and let in the sea, to the tune of half a million dead. This same face went to war against our allies from among the Intaki to keep them from living alongside the Caldari, and has made trouble for those of my people, the Achura, who have adopted Caldari ways. This same face backed the traitor Tibus Heth in his recent, desperate attempt to acquire war material to retake Caldari Prime.
For the Caldari, generally, Caldari identity is about culture. For the Templis, contemptible fools that they are, it is about blood. The kind of horrors you describe, if they occurred, would make an excellent false flag operation to stir tensions between the State and Federation.
They want you to demonize us, you see. It is in their interests to make you hate us, to want us all dead. The use of Amarrian gear would be consistent with this, as well: while the Dragonaurs are unlikely to work with the Amarr, they are quite likely to be able to get Amarrian gear.
So, speaking of extremists, we do have our own. They want you to be as extreme as they are, so that you will commit atrocities against the Caldari and inspire further hatred.
A war of blood against blood: that is their aim. It sounds as though they have done their work well, in your case, soldier.
Please remember, of course, that such forces are no stranger to the Gallentean experience, either. The Great War was not the doing of the Dragonaurs alone: they were not the ones who decided that orbital bombardment was a good medicine to prescribe for Caldari population centers. |
Sergamon Draco
Rautaleijona Top Men.
93
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 19:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
I know that there is possibility, that dragonaurs are responsible for those heinous acts.I have also in my writings told,my opinion and views about caldari and ammarian people.Someone could say that im racist and fanatic,but in my defence those opinions and views did started after what happened in those days.I have to say that i have never attacked against civilian targets,Also i condemn any act of terror against civilians.I know also none of the factions can say "we dont have anything wrong doings in our conscience" And what mr adamance pointed out,ethnic cleansing of 863 people would have been reported somewhere.I have tried to get raport of that incident,and only reply i got "There isn`t any mention of incident like this in records"Sound`s very strange,but strange thing also is that i cant remember anything of my childhood prior to the event.Before that thing diden`t bother me,untill i heard this conspiracy theory "Factions possess the kind of technology that can replace the memories with new memories" After this i have started to think,if that is possible are they doing it to people in program,to get fanatical fighters. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1341
|
Posted - 2013.08.18 22:07:00 -
[36] - Quote
Sergamon Draco wrote:I know that there is possibility, that dragonaurs are responsible for those heinous acts.I have also in my writings told,my opinion and views about caldari and ammarian people.Someone could say that im racist and fanatic,but in my defence those opinions and views did started after what happened in those days.I have to say that i have never attacked against civilian targets,Also i condemn any act of terror against civilians.I know also none of the factions can say "we dont have anything wrong doings in our conscience" And what mr adamance pointed out,ethnic cleansing of 863 people would have been reported somewhere.I have tried to get raport of that incident,and only reply i got "There isn`t any mention of incident like this in records"Sound`s very strange,but strange thing also is that i cant remember anything of my childhood prior to the event.Before that thing diden`t bother me,untill i heard this conspiracy theory "Factions possess the kind of technology that can replace the memories with new memories" After this i have started to think,if that is possible are they doing it to people in program,to get fanatical fighters. An interesting insight into Mr Draco, though as I said before to the Amarr molestation is a sin. Soldiers of the Empire do not do such things. |
Galm Fae
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
63
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 00:11:00 -
[37] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Sergamon Draco wrote:I know that there is possibility, that dragonaurs are responsible for those heinous acts.I have also in my writings told,my opinion and views about caldari and ammarian people.Someone could say that im racist and fanatic,but in my defence those opinions and views did started after what happened in those days.I have to say that i have never attacked against civilian targets,Also i condemn any act of terror against civilians.I know also none of the factions can say "we dont have anything wrong doings in our conscience" And what mr adamance pointed out,ethnic cleansing of 863 people would have been reported somewhere.I have tried to get raport of that incident,and only reply i got "There isn`t any mention of incident like this in records"Sound`s very strange,but strange thing also is that i cant remember anything of my childhood prior to the event.Before that thing diden`t bother me,untill i heard this conspiracy theory "Factions possess the kind of technology that can replace the memories with new memories" After this i have started to think,if that is possible are they doing it to people in program,to get fanatical fighters. An interesting insight into Mr Draco, though as I said before to the Amarr molestation is a sin. Soldiers of the Empire do not do such things. Adamance is telling the truth Draco. Ethnic cleansing just doesn't make sense from the Amarr point of view. Not only is it out of their moral code, but it counteracts the entire point of Reclamation: to incorperate outside cultures and peoples into the Amarr faith. They seek to assimilate, not exterminate.
Not to say that it never happens. The Amarr just aren't the ones that get their hands dirty. They would much rather outsource the violence to commandos and turn a blind eye to the destruction they cause while Amarr forces focus on more important matters whenever a population is declared a "lost cause."
I've been in the ranks of the Dragonaurs, and I can tell you that you don't give them enough credit. I don't deny what Ryeon-haani informed us of, they have committed horrible acts. Still, most are only acting according to what they think is best for the State. They can also be valuable allies if you commit to the Caldari cause. The team I was in was only one link in a chain of intelligence sleepers they have across Pure Blind. There was a time when they worked directy with the Provosts in exchange for ensured amnesty if an agent was ever compramised. For us, it wasn't about the killing. It was about doing what was best for our State.
Dragonaur teams are across the cluster conducting psy-ops and search and destory missions, but that is only one face of their operations. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
200
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 02:42:00 -
[38] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:I don't deny what Ryeon-haani informed us of, they have committed horrible acts. Still, most are only acting according to what they think is best for the State. They can also be valuable allies if you commit to the Caldari cause. The team I was in was only one link in a chain of intelligence sleepers they have across Pure Blind. There was a time when they worked directy with the Provosts in exchange for ensured amnesty if an agent was ever compramised. For us, it wasn't about the killing. It was about doing what was best for our State. Of course.
But that is what a fanatic is, Fae-haan: someone who embraces a perceived truth fully, utterly, without question or space for doubt. It's not someone who loves to kill; it's someone who kills out of deep conviction that they are doing what is right, what needs to be done.
The Templis are not evil. They do not need to be. They need only be disastrously mistaken.
Like the Amarr, they do what they believe they must. Unlike the Amarr, their concern is narrowed to a relatively small group of people: the ethnic Caldari-- but also unlike the Amarr, they see the rest of us as a severe problem.
For the Caldari to be alone again, at home on their frozen world with the Winds to guide them: that is the Dragonaur prayer. To be left entirely alone. Even the Intaki and Achura are an affront to them.
They are fools longing for a lost past. That they are not necessarily evil does not make them any less fools, or any less brutal, ruthless, or deadly. |
Galm Fae
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 03:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote:Galm Fae wrote:I don't deny what Ryeon-haani informed us of, they have committed horrible acts. Still, most are only acting according to what they think is best for the State. They can also be valuable allies if you commit to the Caldari cause. The team I was in was only one link in a chain of intelligence sleepers they have across Pure Blind. There was a time when they worked directy with the Provosts in exchange for ensured amnesty if an agent was ever compramised. For us, it wasn't about the killing. It was about doing what was best for our State. Of course. But that is what a fanatic is, Fae-haan: someone who embraces a perceived truth fully, utterly, without question or space for doubt. It's not someone who loves to kill; it's someone who kills out of deep conviction that they are doing what is right, what needs to be done. The Templis are not evil. They do not need to be. They need only be disastrously mistaken. Like the Amarr, they do what they believe they must. Unlike the Amarr, their concern is narrowed to a relatively small group of people: the ethnic Caldari-- but also unlike the Amarr, they see the rest of us as a severe problem. For the Caldari to be alone again, at home on their frozen world with the Winds to guide them: that is the Dragonaur prayer. To be left entirely alone. Even the Intaki and Achura are an affront to them. They are fools longing for a lost past. That they are not necessarily evil does not make them any less fools, or any less brutal, ruthless, or deadly. They also typically don't smile upon half-breeds, but for reasons that still puzzle me to this day an exception was made.
You have to remember, it was YC110. After the 5th took Caldari Prime, the dream of Caldari isolationism seemed within reach. For a teenager whose only other option in life would have been repairing dropships for an ever-increasing sea of mercenaries for the Legion, the Dragonaurs seemed like heroes. Even if some in our team were not entirely supportive of the Dragonaur's past, we all felt that they were a means to finally securing our homeworld. It was our duty as ethnic Caldari to help our race reclaim what we had lost. We were all just playing our part to help the greater good of the State.
I hope that might serve as insight into my reasons for defending individuality over collectivism today. |
Jackson Olosko
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
10
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 09:43:00 -
[40] - Quote
I've never been good at speaking out about big issues. I take a stand of neutrality, if you will. I long for peace within the galaxy, and throughout the universe, so I'm not really one to attack others ideals in defense of my own. And if I ever do, I've got a damn good reason. I will defend my own thoughts, but only if I am certain they are just. I always like to take a look at the whole picture rather than taking a side and rambling on about trivial things. It's just a waste of time.
As for people who are so vehement upon following an idea without question or reason, those are the people who I get into fights with. I'm generally not an angry person, but I won't sit by and let someone mindlessly blasphemize everyone else in the name of their own ideas. If you want people to know that you stand for something, that sure as hell isn't the way to do it. It's a slow process, one that takes respect and discipline. One who doesn't take these into account is risking looking like a fool. And who is going to take you or what you stand for seriously if you're being a fool about it?
I can understand mild fanatacism, it happens. But people who just go off for no reason at all... I think it's a huge contributor to the reason we're fighting in the first place. I'm waiting for the day all of us can just shut up and come together as the United Universal Republic Federal Empire State.
Or something like that. |
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1360
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 10:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jackson Olosko wrote:I've never been good at speaking out about big issues. I take a stand of neutrality, if you will. I long for peace within the galaxy, and throughout the universe, so I'm not really one to attack others ideals in defense of my own. And if I ever do, I've got a damn good reason. I will defend my own thoughts, but only if I am certain they are just. I always like to take a look at the whole picture rather than taking a side and rambling on about trivial things. It's just a waste of time.
As for people who are so vehement upon following an idea without question or reason, those are the people who I get into fights with. I'm generally not an angry person, but I won't sit by and let someone mindlessly blasphemize everyone else in the name of their own ideas. If you want people to know that you stand for something, that sure as hell isn't the way to do it. It's a slow process, one that takes respect and discipline. One who doesn't take these into account is risking looking like a fool. And who is going to take you or what you stand for seriously if you're being a fool about it?
I can understand mild fanatacism, it happens. But people who just go off for no reason at all... I think it's a huge contributor to the reason we're fighting in the first place. I'm waiting for the day all of us can just shut up and come together as the United Universal Republic Federal Empire State.
Or something like that. Or just be united under the singular banner and faith of the Amarrian Empire. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
200
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 16:52:00 -
[42] - Quote
Galm Fae wrote:They also typically don't smile upon half-breeds, but for reasons that still puzzle me to this day an exception was made.
You have to remember, it was YC110. After the 5th took Caldari Prime, the dream of Caldari isolationism seemed within reach. For a teenager whose only other option in life would have been repairing dropships for an ever-increasing sea of mercenaries for the Legion, the Dragonaurs seemed like heroes. Even if some in our team were not entirely supportive of the Dragonaur's past, we all felt that they were a means to finally securing our homeworld. It was our duty as ethnic Caldari to help our race reclaim what we had lost. We were all just playing our part to help the greater good of the State.
I hope that might serve as insight into my reasons for defending individuality over collectivism today. Well ... the Dragonaurs are surely focused on the common good of the Caldari, it is true. Broadly, however, much harm is done by true believers of all ideologies. It is difficult to say whether "collectivism" is really more troublesome in this way than individualism.
In the final accounting, the two are the sides of a single ancient coin. A society consists of individuals-- social individuals who more or less constantly interact. So it has been, perhaps, as long as there have been humans. The group and the individual are both critically important; to ennoble one at the expense of the other is to willfully close one's eyes to the other side of that truth. Both are important. Strong societies can be built emphasizing either one or the other (the State, the Federation)-- but probably not by excluding either (a state of anarchy, Sansha's Nation).
In the end, it does not seem to be so much a question of which is better as a question of what each approach is good for. I am pro-community, largely because that approach lends itself to relative peace and order, and allows the patterns the community enshrines to persist, relatively unchanged, for a long, long time.
I wish to see my faith and culture survive. Thus, favoring the community over the individual is a matter of utility for me, not of high ideal. |
Sergamon Draco
Rautaleijona Top Men.
93
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:05:00 -
[43] - Quote
But what if those conspiracy theories are true, and the memory of my own would be exchanged in place of the atrocities. Only that they would get soldiers to fight blindly and fanatically On behalf of faction.That would mean that there is also many others whose memory,And who knows what else would have changed. What if you learned that your memory would be wiped out and replaced by new memories,would that change how you think about your faction and other factions and races? |
XANDER KAG
Red Star. EoN.
201
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:31:00 -
[44] - Quote
I like to think I take a more moderate view on most subjects. Combat is best suited to the battlefield.
Unlike most of my brothers and sisters I merely wish to see my people free to make real choices about their lives. As of now we pretty much get Cartel, slave, be surrounded by racists(sorry Federation but its true if not on a grand scale), or be a citizen of a economically troubled Tribal-Republic. I haven't heard of any mass movement of our people to Caldari territory so I don't know about conditions there. Not exactly the good life any way around.
However if slavers are involved I want them to die, or if it threatens my people I will fight tooth and nail against it. |
Galm Fae
Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY
64
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:43:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yun Hee Ryeon wrote: Well ... the Dragonaurs are surely focused on the common good of the Caldari, it is true. Broadly, however, much harm is done by true believers of all ideologies. It is difficult to say whether "collectivism" is really more troublesome in this way than individualism.
In the end, it does not seem to be so much a question of which is better as a question of what each approach is good for. I am pro-community, largely because that approach lends itself to relative peace and order, and allows the patterns the community enshrines to persist, relatively unchanged, for a long, long time.
I wish to see my faith and culture survive. Thus, favoring the community over the individual is a matter of utility for me, not of high ideal. I wished to see my faith and culture flourish, thus I made the choice of joining the Dragonaurs in the first place. Maybe this isn't for me to say, but I don't think I am all that different from you. I just took the extra step of applying myself fully to the betterment of the State, an act that I now see was a mistake. It did however, help me finally see through cencepts like honor and utilitarianism.
As for you Draco, false memories and wipes aren't uncommon in the State, I am sure the Federation can't be much different. It is particularly rampant in cases were the mentally unstable are "corrected" and made to fold back into society. So if you are going to question if your memories are real, then you simply can't deny the possibility that you are absolutely insane. |
Yun Hee Ryeon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
200
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
XANDER KAG wrote:I haven't heard of any mass movement of our people to Caldari territory so I don't know about conditions there. There's a good reason for that, Mr. Kag. The Caldari State welcomes those who are willing to abandon their prior identities and become fully Caldari. Ethnicity is relatively unimportant, but culture is everything.
Having just had someone spend a thousand years trying to stamp out your culture, it is not surprising if your people are reluctant to abandon their own culture and adopt that of the Caldari.
Actually, the State doesn't see many immigrants of any sort. |
Mistaahh Juvenile
Synergy United
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 18:45:00 -
[47] - Quote
This is the exact reason why I do not indulge myself in politics. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
1368
|
Posted - 2013.08.19 21:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
XANDER KAG wrote:I like to think I take a more moderate view on most subjects. Combat is best suited to the battlefield.
Unlike most of my brothers and sisters I merely wish to see my people free to make real choices about their lives. As of now we pretty much get Cartel, slave, be surrounded by racists(sorry Federation but its true if not on a grand scale), or be a citizen of a economically troubled Tribal-Republic. I haven't heard of any mass movement of our people to Caldari territory so I don't know about conditions there. Not exactly the good life any way around.
However if slavers are involved I want them to die, or if it threatens my people I will fight tooth and nail against it.
Well I don't think the Minmatar would be able to properly settle en masse in the State. Primarily because citizenship is not based on the correct legal forms, it is based on your status within one of the mega corporations, and the Caldari would be unwilling to give corporate citizenship to outsiders over their own people.
I'm not saying the Matari don't have it tough but if they would just open their eyes to what the Amarr had to offer without all the fear mongering from the Gallente and Tribal Elders perhaps more would willingly come over the empire. |
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