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Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
525
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 21:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make Drop Uplinks Self Destruct when the originating suit is swapped/destroyed.
What's the point in holding CRUs if uplinks are better? What's the point in vehicle Mobile CRUs when uplinks are better? I feel uplinks should be tied to the originating suit to make the decision to drop an uplink vrs taking the cru matter. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1864
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 21:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Make Drop Uplinks Self Destruct when the originating suit is swapped/destroyed.
There is already a varriant that acts that way. Go look it up. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
525
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 21:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Make Drop Uplinks Self Destruct when the originating suit is swapped/destroyed. There is already a varriant that acts that way. Go look it up. I know, I'm proposing that they all act that way. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1866
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:00:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ah, so you want to make it impossible for someone to use his own uplinks.
You also want a kill on any uplink deployer to give a DU kill bonus and negate all the effort expeded in placing uplinks in strategic locations.
No. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
525
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Ah, so you want to make it impossible for someone to use his own uplinks.
You also want a kill on any uplink deployer to give a DU kill bonus and negate all the effort expeded in placing uplinks in strategic locations.
No. I'm looking for a way to make CRUs and mobile CRUs matter again verses the current uplinks. They are simply better. How would you improve the balance between them, Skihids? |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
499
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Skihids wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Make Drop Uplinks Self Destruct when the originating suit is swapped/destroyed. There is already a varriant that acts that way. Go look it up. I know, I'm proposing that they all act that way. What if Uplinks have the # of Spawns per uplink Reduced? OR What if the uplinks cannot be placed in a certian distance from one another?
So MLT Uplink 3 spawns STD Uplink 5 spawns ADV 11 Spawns (2 squads) Normal PRO 15 Spawns (1 team) Special PRO Spawn that can deploy more people per uplink (30 spawns)
OR
MLT cannot be placed in 50 m of another Uplink STD cannot be placed in 40 m of another Uplink ADV cannot be placed in 25 m of another Uplink PRO cannot be placed in 15 m of another Uplink Special PRO Spawn can be placed anywhere the user pleases |
Kadar Saeleid
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
43
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'd like to see a limit on the number of uplinks in an area. I don't think you should be able to have 15 uplinks in a 5x5 m area. They should cancel each other out if too close. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
526
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Or perhaps a special uplink timer, so using uplinks takes more time than using a CRU. Do you place a strategic uplink for slower deployments, or use the CRU? |
Stephen Rao
Ahrendee Frontlinez Omega Commission
50
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I'm looking for a way to make CRUs and mobile CRUs matter again verses the current uplinks. They are simply better. How would you improve the balance between them, Skihids? CRU's and (to a lesser extent) Mobile CRU's are infinitely more survivable then Drop Uplinks. I've used one Flux to take out 4 DU's simultaneously, whereas a CRU is a more reliable and permanent point of deployment.
Boom, difference and viability! |
Monty Mole Clone
Shiv M
37
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Skihids wrote:Ah, so you want to make it impossible for someone to use his own uplinks.
You also want a kill on any uplink deployer to give a DU kill bonus and negate all the effort expeded in placing uplinks in strategic locations.
No. I'm looking for a way to make CRUs and mobile CRUs matter again verses the current uplinks. They are simply better. How would you improve the balance between them, Skihids?
you can flux any kind of uplink
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Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
159
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
All this would do is make uplink deployment the role of dedicated redline dwellers, putting themselves at risk only long enough to spam their full capacity of uplinks again. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
527
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
New proposal for uplink balancing:
Positioning for Speed: Perhaps a special uplink timer, so using uplinks takes more time than using a CRU. Do you place a strategic uplink for slower deployments, or use the CRU? Or, you could make CRU spawns much faster?
Something like this may be viable: Militia Uplink: 25s spawn in timer, and with bleed out wait, would be a 18s timer.
A proto uplink would be a 17 second wait, or 10 seconds with bleed-out timer finished. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
503
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Skihids wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Make Drop Uplinks Self Destruct when the originating suit is swapped/destroyed. There is already a varriant that acts that way. Go look it up. I know, I'm proposing that they all act that way. What if Uplinks have the # of Spawns per uplink Reduced? ORWhat if the uplinks cannot be placed in a certian distance from one another? So MLT Uplink 3 spawns STD Uplink 5 spawns ADV 11 Spawns (2 squads) Normal PRO 15 Spawns (1 team) Special PRO Spawn that can deploy more people per uplink (30 spawns) ORMLT cannot be placed in 50 m of another Uplink STD cannot be placed in 40 m of another Uplink ADV cannot be placed in 25 m of another Uplink PRO cannot be placed in 15 m of another Uplink Special PRO Spawn can be placed anywhere the user pleases
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Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
368
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
nope but how about you get 10% less armor when you spawn on one like the description says |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
503
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:nope but how about you get 10% less armor when you spawn on one like the description says And your shields regenerate 10% slower. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
527
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:nope but how about you get 10% less armor when you spawn on one like the description says And your shields regenerate 10% slower. Random modules on the drop-suit are deactivated when spawning in on an uplink. Maybe your gun is damaged and is at 0/0, maybe one or two of your shield modules are burned out, perhaps your regulators etc may be malfuncting. I think it is an interesting mechanic. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
503
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Killar-12 wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:nope but how about you get 10% less armor when you spawn on one like the description says And your shields regenerate 10% slower. Random modules on the drop-suit are deactivated when spawning in on an uplink. Maybe your gun is damaged and is at 0/0, maybe one or two of your shield modules are burned out, perhaps your regulators etc may be malfuncting. I think it is an interesting mechanic. Make it fast but risky, with better uplinks having less chance to malfunction. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
527
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
More ideas, anything that might buff the Mobile CRU or regular CRU and bring them into balance with the current Uplinks? Any changes to current uplinks that will bring Mobile CRUs and regular CRUs into line with them, making them a true part of any tactician's toolbox? |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
1621
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:36:00 -
[19] - Quote
I still think, if you make uplinks squad based and CRUs/mCRUs team based.. you've pretty much solved the issue entirely.
It would also make it so that imperial drop uplinks are no longer the only ones worth running.
Calling in OMS depots and CRUs would also really help down the road. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:More ideas, anything that might buff the Mobile CRU or regular CRU and bring them into balance with the current Uplinks? Any changes to current uplinks that will bring Mobile CRUs and regular CRUs into line with them, making them a true part of any tactician's toolbox? MCRU's need to deploy out side the Vehicles if the vehicle is full Make it so People cannot spawn on objectives in skirmish
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Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
159
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Question,
What specifically are you trying to solve? You say CRU's are inferior, but what aspect of them makes them inferior to you? I think the issue can be better addressed by looking at that. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:Question,
What specifically are you trying to solve? You say CRU's are inferior, but what aspect of them makes them inferior to you? I think the issue can be better addressed by looking at that. Immobility, longer wait to spawn in on, ease of detection. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
284
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
say no to balancing until we have a full set of suits and vehicles. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
527
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Question,
What specifically are you trying to solve? You say CRU's are inferior, but what aspect of them makes them inferior to you? I think the issue can be better addressed by looking at that. Immobility, longer wait to spawn in on, ease of detection. Hackability. |
Killar-12
The Corporate Raiders
504
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:49:00 -
[25] - Quote
low genius wrote:say no to balancing until we have a full set of suits and vehicles. Doesn't make a difference in this regard. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
159
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 22:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:Question,
What specifically are you trying to solve? You say CRU's are inferior, but what aspect of them makes them inferior to you? I think the issue can be better addressed by looking at that. Immobility, longer wait to spawn in on, ease of detection. Immobility of CRU's is what gives drop uplinks a point to exist. Mobile CRU's not withstanding, but I see those so rarely that they almost don't factor in. If they gave WP's and dropships were more desirable mobile CRU's would become an issue that resolves itself.
I can see the spawn wait being increased, but it can't and won't incentivise CRU use as the location of the spawn outweighs the spawn timer unless the 2 are close enough that you may question why you would have placed the uplink at that location.
Ease of detection on the other hand seems to favor CRU's. Enemy CRU's can and do disappear on the hud at ranges lower than uplinks, so I don't see the issue there.
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Hackability. This is a part of the inherent nature on structure CRU's. Changing this means a rework of how CRU's function, not an issue with uplinks. Also, mobile CRU's are not hackable either. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
660
|
Posted - 2013.08.12 23:37:00 -
[27] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:
Speed trade for strategic deployment: Something like this may be viable: Militia Uplink: 25s spawn in timer, and with bleed out wait, would be a 18s timer.
A proto uplink would be a 17 second wait, or 10 seconds with bleed-out timer finished.
Intersting concept to change it entirely opposite! This might help, but not resolve.
Quote:What if Uplinks have the # of Spawns per uplink Reduced?
Won't help in dealing with uplink spam. Only would make it more necessary to have plenty of them.
Quote:What if the uplinks cannot be placed in a certian distance from one another?
This is good! The distances need some work tho.
Possible, might help a bit but not too much. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1870
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Technically uplinks aren't a replacement for CRUs, they are wormhole targets that you push an already activated clone through.
Lore wise anyone using an uplink has to be reanimated inside a CRU of some type first. To my knowledge CCP hasn't stated where this and the wormhole generator resides, but my guess would be the warbarge as it also needs wormholes to get the RDV's down to the planet's surface in a single second or less.
There is absolutely no explanation for spawning on an objective as there are no clones there nor are there any wormhole targets. For that matter the random spawning in ambush also has zero explanation.
You would want to address the whole spectrum of spawning issues if you wanted to balance spawning.
DU's would be slower because you need to reanimate in a CRU, then get shoved through a wormhole. Random spawning in ambush would take longer than either because you would need to get reanimated on the warbarge, then shoved through a wormhole that terminates in some random place in the atmosphere (since you can't precisely target the endpoint without the uplink) and fall the rest of the way.
Or you could simply ignore physics and lore and use the immersion breaking "It's a video game so it just works that way" excuse. |
Jake Bloodworth
DUST University Ivy League
75
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Skihids wrote:Ah, so you want to make it impossible for someone to use his own uplinks.
You also want a kill on any uplink deployer to give a DU kill bonus and negate all the effort expeded in placing uplinks in strategic locations.
No. I'm looking for a way to make CRUs and mobile CRUs matter again verses the current uplinks. They are simply better. How would you improve the balance between them, Skihids?
Pretty sure CRU's and Mobile CRU's have "slightly" higher EHP. I would have to check in game though just in case I'm wrong. I haven't played in a couple days. Are flux grenades destroying all the CRU's in range of their blasts? |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr. EoN.
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Uplink spam is annoying and doesn't utilize uplinks in a way that promotes strategic or tactical use, rewarding WP's for pretty much nothing in many cases (not always).
I think an inherent penalty should exist when two or more uplinks are set in close proximity of one another; the spawn timer increases, the number of clones they can spawn decreases while the chances for them to appear on the radar and map increase. The further apart, their signature profile is significantly lowered, spawn timer and clone counts remain the same. I'd say 10 meters would be reasonable. This, over time and with experimention, would promote more diverse use of uplinks.
How about uplinks performing better the nearer they are to a functioning CRU (within a 25 meter radius)? Say a 5% boost to spawn time.
I'd love to be able to hack uplinks, too. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
4175
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:17:00 -
[31] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Make it so People cannot spawn on objectives in skirmish
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1870
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
Taking that idea further, you would actually need to declare just where those clones are if you have a fixed number of them.
How many are in that particular CRU? How many are in your warbarge and available for DU wormhole placement?
Then you get into the fun of being able to steal clones in battle by hacking CRUs or being able to destroy multiple enemy clones by blowing up a MRCU.
Oh, the strategic implications of being forced to conform to your lore... |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr. EoN.
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Taking that idea further, you would actually need to declare just where those clones are if you have a fixed number of them.
How many are in that particular CRU? How many are in your warbarge and available for DU wormhole placement?
Then you get into the fun of being able to steal clones in battle by hacking CRUs or being able to destroy multiple enemy clones by blowing up a MRCU.
Oh, the strategic implications of being forced to conform to your lore...
I'm not sure this is how clones work but that would make for a fairly interesting addition to tactical consideration; at least, on a PC level. This would be terrible for pubs. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4175
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Taking that idea further, you would actually need to declare just where those clones are if you have a fixed number of them.
How many are in that particular CRU? How many are in your warbarge and available for DU wormhole placement?
Then you get into the fun of being able to steal clones in battle by hacking CRUs or being able to destroy multiple enemy clones by blowing up a MRCU.
Oh, the strategic implications of being forced to conform to your lore... What if CRUs had a set number of respawns or added to the number of available clones over time to what team had control over it? |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1871
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Skihids wrote:Taking that idea further, you would actually need to declare just where those clones are if you have a fixed number of them.
How many are in that particular CRU? How many are in your warbarge and available for DU wormhole placement?
Then you get into the fun of being able to steal clones in battle by hacking CRUs or being able to destroy multiple enemy clones by blowing up a MRCU.
Oh, the strategic implications of being forced to conform to your lore... What if CRUs had a set number of respawns or added to the number of available clones over time to what team had control over it?
You would have to eliminate physical clone bodies as the limiting factor and substitute some non-physical limit in its place, akin to the BPC concept.
The problem with that is CCP has already specified physical clones as the limit in PC and I don't see an easy way to reconcile the two.
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Zero Notion
Red Star Jr. EoN.
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:40:00 -
[36] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Cosgar wrote:Skihids wrote:Taking that idea further, you would actually need to declare just where those clones are if you have a fixed number of them.
How many are in that particular CRU? How many are in your warbarge and available for DU wormhole placement?
Then you get into the fun of being able to steal clones in battle by hacking CRUs or being able to destroy multiple enemy clones by blowing up a MRCU.
Oh, the strategic implications of being forced to conform to your lore... What if CRUs had a set number of respawns or added to the number of available clones over time to what team had control over it? You would have to eliminate physical clone bodies as the limiting factor and substitute some non-physical limit in its place, akin to the BPC concept. The problem with that is CCP has already specified physical clones as the limit in PC and I don't see an easy way to reconcile the two.
There could exist a mechanical variable that allows for a bonus of X amount of clones based on retaining a CRU for a period of time; if you successfully keep and defend your CRU, you gain 25 clones. Hack and retain an enemy CRU, you gain 10, for a potential total of 35 extra clones. There is only one chance on each timer, as soon as it is disrupted there is no chance to regain the bonus clones.
The timer could be 5 minutes on each CRU.
I think this would also mean that each team would have no 'starting' CRU (as in already owned) and would have to hack it at the beginning of the match to begin the timer. |
Dr Stabwounds
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
75
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:48:00 -
[37] - Quote
OP's idea's are terrible.
Mobile CRU's just need WP's added to them. No changes needed for Uplinks. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1871
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:55:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zero Notion wrote:Skihids wrote:Cosgar wrote:Skihids wrote:Taking that idea further, you would actually need to declare just where those clones are if you have a fixed number of them.
How many are in that particular CRU? How many are in your warbarge and available for DU wormhole placement?
Then you get into the fun of being able to steal clones in battle by hacking CRUs or being able to destroy multiple enemy clones by blowing up a MRCU.
Oh, the strategic implications of being forced to conform to your lore... What if CRUs had a set number of respawns or added to the number of available clones over time to what team had control over it? You would have to eliminate physical clone bodies as the limiting factor and substitute some non-physical limit in its place, akin to the BPC concept. The problem with that is CCP has already specified physical clones as the limit in PC and I don't see an easy way to reconcile the two. There could exist a mechanical variable that allows for a bonus of X amount of clones based on retaining a CRU for a period of time; if you successfully keep and defend your CRU, you gain 25 clones. Hack and retain an enemy CRU, you gain 10, for a potential total of 35 extra clones. There is only one chance on each timer, as soon as it is disrupted there is no chance to regain the bonus clones. The timer could be 5 minutes on each CRU. I think this would also mean that each team would have no 'starting' CRU (as in already owned) and would have to hack it at the beginning of the match to begin the timer.
Are you talking about a physical variable, or just a ticket system? I can't see how you can shift from a ticket system to one that conforms to physics without significantly altering clone counts during the match. |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr. EoN.
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 17:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
That was poor wording. The mechanic I was referring to would be the timer to achieve the bonus clones. |
Dusters Blog
Galactic News Network
401
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:03:00 -
[40] - Quote
as seen in pc, a small mobile spawn has the ability to break the game. would like to see uplinks cost most cpu/pg as well as be limited to one per player [it is a mini wormhole after all] they should be separated by how many spawns they allow not by allowing them to be spammed.
5 for blue print, 8 for std, 15 for adv and 20 for proto. |
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Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1871
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:09:00 -
[41] - Quote
Zero Notion wrote:That was poor wording. The mechanic I was referring to would be the timer to achieve the bonus clones.
That wouldn't do anything to rationalize physical constraints of clones as you can't grow any inside a CRU. |
Skihids
Bullet Cluster
1871
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
Dusters Blog wrote:as seen in pc, a small mobile spawn has the ability to break the game. would like to see uplinks cost most cpu/pg as well as be limited to one per player [it is a mini wormhole after all] they should be separated by how many spawns they allow not by allowing them to be spammed.
5 for blue print, 8 for std, 15 for adv and 20 for proto.
A DU is not a wormhole, it is simply a target for a wormhole opening.
And that gets to the question of why a piece of equipment requires suit CPU and PG after it is tossed on the ground. How does it get suit power after I take a LAV ride to the other end of the battlefield? |
Zero Notion
Red Star Jr. EoN.
193
|
Posted - 2013.08.13 18:17:00 -
[43] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Zero Notion wrote:That was poor wording. The mechanic I was referring to would be the timer to achieve the bonus clones. That wouldn't do anything to rationalize physical constraints of clones as you can't grow any inside a CRU.
I didn't assume that clones would be growing within the CRUs.
My line of thought would be that during an emergency situation (a district under attack), the activation of a CRU would signal Genolution that the mercenary corporation may have need for 'emergency clones' (produced in a Genolution lab). Use of these clones would have an ISK equivalent due to the short notice need (the five minute timer) and providing the wormhole transport of the clones (through the CRU). Payout would be taken from the corporate wallet with each clone used or taken from the total payout at the end of the match, an overall percentage that each player would lose. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Better Academy.
531
|
Posted - 2013.08.14 17:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
Zero Notion wrote:Skihids wrote:Zero Notion wrote:That was poor wording. The mechanic I was referring to would be the timer to achieve the bonus clones. That wouldn't do anything to rationalize physical constraints of clones as you can't grow any inside a CRU. I didn't assume that clones would be growing within the CRUs. My line of thought would be that during an emergency situation (a district under attack), the activation of a CRU would signal Genolution that the mercenary corporation may have need for 'emergency clones' (produced in a Genolution lab). Use of these clones would have an ISK equivalent due to the short notice need (the five minute timer) and providing the wormhole transport of the clones (through the CRU). Payout would be taken from the corporate wallet with each clone used or taken from the total payout at the end of the match, an overall percentage that each player would lose.
Clone reanimation units may also have a built in uplink for people to drop in. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
686
|
Posted - 2013.08.15 00:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
If I was building a CRU for my Minmatar brothers and sisters in arms, i'd:
Give it accurate long-range sensors.
Put an extended umbrella shield on it, and spawn my precious warriors behind the protection of the shield.
Build in armor and shield regenerators for friendlies.
Put autoturrets on top.
GIve it automatic flashbang and smoke generators.
I'm not saying it's balanced, but f*ck balanced, these are my people we're talking about here.
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