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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
898
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Posted - 2013.08.09 12:58:00 -
[91] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:New Show on GalNet
Rookies do the darndest things!
Hosted by Phil Crosby, war correspondent.
Watch these newly minted Immortal soldiers make the meet the most entertaining demises to the delight of millions of fans across New Eden. Watch as they get blown up, burnt, dissimulated, mangled and mutilated all at the cost of no human lives.
Yeah... ok.. sometimes is funny, i'm guilty of teasing the occasional NooB too...but i feel horrible after, and i let them kill me few times as a "Sorry" type of thing. Still... we should try to be a bit more welcoming with new players, and you know that. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7090
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:01:00 -
[92] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:New Show on GalNet
Rookies do the darndest things!
Hosted by Phil Crosby, war correspondent.
Watch these newly minted Immortal soldiers make the meet the most entertaining demises to the delight of millions of fans across New Eden. Watch as they get blown up, burnt, dissimulated, mangled and mutilated all at the cost of no human lives.
Yeah... ok.. sometimes is funny, i'm guilty of teasing the occasional NooB too...but i feel horrible after, and i let them kill me few times as a "Sorry" type of thing. Still... we should try to be a bit more welcoming with new players, and you know that.
Out of any known NPE method the taking people under the wing has been proven the most effective.
While I doubt we would ever reach Fails of the Weak status that halo enjoys, we can try to mitigate the worst of mistakes and the sorts by designing better training methods for the new player and try to work on matchmaking well enough so that the 'wall slam' doesn't happen as day one before the battle academy existed. |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
153
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:13:00 -
[93] - Quote
Academy folks that have not been in the game long, hell from the very start of the game, need clear progression points until your in the clear so to speak and have a decent amount of sp and battles under your belt.
Have some basic classes to look at visually and then have the game prompt you to skill towards (For instance a brawler type "Assault" visual image might suggest speccing into damage mods and core shield / armour skills where as an advanced medic type might suggest equipment and hit point extenders like shield extenders and armour plates. Maybe a testing area for the weapon types and ranges, a firing range would be ideal.
Also academy should be just like the original game modes, yes you can tweak the clone count but dont make it too small.
Some basic voice overs and visual guides would do the trick to inform the new players about things like null cannon objectives, what supply depots and CRU`s do etc...
Thinking further into this now - New characters could be given bonuses for completing basic objectives.
Get your first 100 kills = 200k sp bonus.
Get your first 1000 wp for some basic items
Kill 50 enemies using a sidearm = 50 basic sidearms of the players choice with a little sp put into the basic prerequisit skill.
Get 20,000 War points to leave the academy and face harder opponents - grants 1m isk and 500k skill points
Ideas ^^^ |
Mamertine Son
R.E.B.E.L.S
61
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:14:00 -
[94] - Quote
Man, I'm actually pretty good at BF3. I generally manage to score my way into top 5 but this game is especially hard.
in bf3, if a player has a lot of battle awareness, they can make kills mainly by spotting the enemy first and performing solid flanks. Battle awareness in dust is so different because even if you get the drop on somebody its not a guaranteed kill.
Maybe the enemy is shield tanking or they're a heavy or they're using an MD (in which case run as far away as possible), there are some many variables in dust that it makes battle awareness in bf3 look like where's waldo. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7090
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:18:00 -
[95] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:Academy folks that have not been in the game long, hell from the very start of the game, need clear progression points until your in the clear so to speak and have a decent amount of sp and battles under your belt.
Have some basic classes to look at visually and then have the game prompt you to skill towards (For instance a brawler type "Assault" visual image might suggest speccing into damage mods and core shield / armour skills where as an advanced medic type might suggest equipment and hit point extenders like shield extenders and armour plates. Maybe a testing area for the weapon types and ranges, a firing range would be ideal.
Also academy should be just like the original game modes, yes you can tweak the clone count but dont make it too small.
Some basic voice overs and visual guides would do the trick to inform the new players about things like null cannon objectives, what supply depots and CRU`s do etc...
Wishes audio voice overs localizations were not so expensive >< |
CommanderBolt
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
154
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:20:00 -
[96] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:Academy folks that have not been in the game long, hell from the very start of the game, need clear progression points until your in the clear so to speak and have a decent amount of sp and battles under your belt.
Have some basic classes to look at visually and then have the game prompt you to skill towards (For instance a brawler type "Assault" visual image might suggest speccing into damage mods and core shield / armour skills where as an advanced medic type might suggest equipment and hit point extenders like shield extenders and armour plates. Maybe a testing area for the weapon types and ranges, a firing range would be ideal.
Also academy should be just like the original game modes, yes you can tweak the clone count but dont make it too small.
Some basic voice overs and visual guides would do the trick to inform the new players about things like null cannon objectives, what supply depots and CRU`s do etc... Wishes audio voice overs localizations were not so expensive ><
Have the voice overs in basic English, with text subtitles for other languages. Hell most people speak English. Its also the required language for these forums so I think that would be a good start. |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:21:00 -
[97] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:CommanderBolt wrote:Academy folks that have not been in the game long, hell from the very start of the game, need clear progression points until your in the clear so to speak and have a decent amount of sp and battles under your belt.
Have some basic classes to look at visually and then have the game prompt you to skill towards (For instance a brawler type "Assault" visual image might suggest speccing into damage mods and core shield / armour skills where as an advanced medic type might suggest equipment and hit point extenders like shield extenders and armour plates. Maybe a testing area for the weapon types and ranges, a firing range would be ideal.
Also academy should be just like the original game modes, yes you can tweak the clone count but dont make it too small.
Some basic voice overs and visual guides would do the trick to inform the new players about things like null cannon objectives, what supply depots and CRU`s do etc... Wishes audio voice overs localizations were not so expensive ><
isnt it possible to use the current TUT ai voice to speak out different strings of text |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7093
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:25:00 -
[98] - Quote
Last time I checked 'athena' was localized as well as the annoying war barge lady though.
and no "Athena" is not a vocaloid nor is Aurua they're real people. |
Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:26:00 -
[99] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Last time I checked 'athena' was localized as well as the annoying war barge lady though.
lame, but if done properly wouldnt "athena" be able to be used for more than just that localized first time speaking
I.E when using google translate, you can have it read short sentences back to you in any language, or how some old computers used to have a text to speech function |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
7093
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:30:00 -
[100] - Quote
Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Last time I checked 'athena' was localized as well as the annoying war barge lady though. lame, but if done properly wouldnt "athena" be able to be used for more than just that localized first time speaking I.E when using google translate, you can have it read short sentences back to you in any language, or how some old computers used to have a text to speech function edit- I see and you know IWS, it becomes difficult to have conversations or debates with you as a lot of the time you edit your previous post instead of posting a new one
I don't have complete thoughts and I am conscious on how many posts I make. If I had not been doing this I would have about.... 40,000+ posts. |
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Dimitri Rascolovitch
The Immortal Knights
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 13:33:00 -
[101] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Dimitri Rascolovitch wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Last time I checked 'athena' was localized as well as the annoying war barge lady though. lame, but if done properly wouldnt "athena" be able to be used for more than just that localized first time speaking I.E when using google translate, you can have it read short sentences back to you in any language, or how some old computers used to have a text to speech function edit- I see and you know IWS, it becomes difficult to have conversations or debates with you as a lot of the time you edit your previous post instead of posting a new one I don't have complete thoughts and I am conscious on how many posts I make. If I had not been doing this I would have about.... 40,000+ posts.
that tends to happen to me a lot, although i dont bother to focus on my post count |
Gorra Snell
Guardian Solutions
76
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 15:05:00 -
[102] - Quote
I was as terribad as the player in the video for the first few days. I've played a fair number of FPSs over the years, but usually PvE/story mode...PvP is a different thing entirely, and much more difficult. Also, I'd always played FPSs on PC, so the DS3 controller messed me up.
Two things caused me to stick around. First, I figured out I could attach M+KB to the PS3, so my years of muscle memory could be put to use. Second, and more germane to this thread, I figured out how to get WP other than through killing opponents. I think anything that shows new players the various ways they can earn WP would greatly enhance the NPE. It gives players a way feel productive/good while they're getting up to speed on the strategy, tactics, and others nuances of the core part of the game...PvP. Hacking is a big one, so I think the Academy should be based on Skirmish, even if it's a scaled down version. |
Shion Typhon
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
204
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 15:42:00 -
[103] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:New Eden is doing exactly what it is supposed to do. Chewing up the people who can't handle it and letting them know exactly where they stand.
Frankly, if certain people were not getting overwhelmed and driven off I would be highly disappointed in this game.
The only thing it needs to do as far as im concerned is make itself worthy of the people who can handle it. There is always a market for hardcore competitive games with basically zero hand-holding. They just need to be good enough to justify their existence.
Don't ever try to get a job in the game industry. |
Vrain Matari
ZionTCD
669
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 17:35:00 -
[104] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I don't think most Vets or CCP realize what a HUGE disadvantage new players have....No core skills to back into, poor equipment that is not match against anything, rubbish aiming mechanics that doesn't allow to use your skills and experience. Dust 514 should have in the EULA ; - Noobs not welcome, if you new to Dust 514 STFU and leave... we don't like people like you. I'm thinking it's not the skillpoints or the gear, but the knowledge of how DUST/New Eden works, which is completely teachable in a good tutorial.
I went ahead and did an experiment because i was unhappy with the 400 WP graduation requirement CCP is using this week for the academy.
Linking it here for reference:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1156757#post1156757 |
A'Real Fury
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
341
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 19:31:00 -
[105] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:I remember the first time I was getting ammo from a resupply depot. I was like oh yea I found the mother load I'm so going to get so many points. 3 games I went back to the same spot thinking I was getting points! ...lol...
Then I laughed so hard at myself once I actually figured out what a supply depot was actually doing. Ding ding ding
Yep I remember doing that as well. I spent some time running away, learning the maps, and wondering why my team spawned on the other side of the map.
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TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
165
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 19:34:00 -
[106] - Quote
That damn militia suit has more health than my advanced mimi logi suit. the way god intended. |
Aisha Ctarl
The Generals EoN.
989
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 19:47:00 -
[107] - Quote
I think I screamed "reload," "throw a grenade," and "move" at the screen a few more times than I ought to.
God that was painful to watch....if I were her I would've been like "screw it" and deleted DUST off my HD. |
BARDAS
DUST University Ivy League
277
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 19:55:00 -
[108] - Quote
So she got absolutely murdered by AR's, Mass Driver, Forge Guns, HMGs, and even Murder Taxied once I thought I saw there by an LLAV. Sums up a typical match lmao...
Also, sad that the only kill she got was a Scout. Further points to the fact at how bad off the Scout class is when a person who obviously has no idea what they are doing in a starter fit murders it without much effort involved. |
Bethhy
Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation
51
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 23:39:00 -
[109] - Quote
We all know through history CCP has been very poor at actually explaining how to play their games, it comes with creating sandbox's and then reacting to how the kids played in it.
Player built tutorials still pretty much is how most players learn the basic's of EVE.
Battle academy was only supposed to be a temporary solution to an actual matchmaking system. which who knows if its even viable anymore with the limited populations we have been pulling.
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Cryius Li-Moody
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2013.08.09 23:58:00 -
[110] - Quote
new players need a better way to learn dust. i made this alt and on my first few matches out i got a total of 100(all alts at different times if your just looking up this one) and about 40~ death without spending isk or sp. fought tanks off because i knew how to use the free SL on weak vehicles and ran an ok gun game because of practice and match making helped some. |
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Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
31
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 00:22:00 -
[111] - Quote
I'm betting she doesn't have much, if any, SP invested into assault rifles. Some of her lining up should have done more than that. Frankly I found I needed to be at around 4 operation and 3 sharp shooting before I could hit. It wasn't that I wasn't aiming well at all - it was like her - she lines up, should atleast do some damage - and misses entirely.
I ending up writing that on my blog as well, since it's a shame that the AR gun game kinda unlocks only if you dump a fair amount of SP into it (don't go thinking you can go putting SP all around the place) |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
606
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 00:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
One of these days I'm going to compile a comparison of fairly typical AR medium fits at different stages across an SP timeline... maybe with a graph. Everyone loves graphs.
Will likely illustrate a quite massive chasm between starters/intermediates and veterans. Significantly behind in total health, damage output, damage recovery and possibly speed. Oh, and grenades. Grenades also scale incredibly. They don't just get increased radius, they don't just get increased damage, no. They get both. In droves.
Pretty similar story with Extenders. The prototype is 200% better than the basic, 100% better than the enhanced. It's pretty whack. Go Complex or go home.
Basically the statistical disadvantage at the various stages in a mercenary's lifetime is what I'd like to examine. The video in this thread illustrates the issue of inexperience taken to an extreme. Both of these hurdles mixed together make for quite the venomous cocktail.
Matchmaking and improved academy are two things to think about as solutions, I would also advocate looking at all instances where a jump from basic to prototype increases performance exponentially. These warrant examining on a case-by-case basis to try and determine if there is a good reason for them to spike in performance like they do. |
XxWarlordxX97
187.
4422
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 03:28:00 -
[113] - Quote
CCP needs to give new people more SP,
and they need to know this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYXffQMXXxM |
XxWarlordxX97
187.
4422
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 03:30:00 -
[114] - Quote
I hope this helps |
Svipdagr Hero
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
44
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 03:38:00 -
[115] - Quote
I vote no academy. Get good or get out. |
Baal Roo
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2249
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 04:04:00 -
[116] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:One of these days I'm going to compile a comparison of fairly typical AR medium fits at different stages across an SP timeline... maybe with a graph. Everyone loves graphs.
Will likely illustrate a quite massive chasm between starters/intermediates and veterans. Significantly behind in total health, damage output, damage recovery and possibly speed. Oh, and grenades. Grenades also scale incredibly. They don't just get increased radius, they don't just get increased damage, no. They get both. In droves.
Pretty similar story with Extenders. The prototype is 200% better than the basic, 100% better than the enhanced. It's pretty whack. Go Complex or go home.
Basically the statistical disadvantage at the various stages in a mercenary's lifetime is what I'd like to examine. The video in this thread illustrates the issue of inexperience taken to an extreme. Both of these hurdles mixed together make for quite the venomous cocktail.
Matchmaking and improved academy are two things to think about as solutions, I would also advocate looking at all instances where a jump from basic to prototype increases performance exponentially. These warrant examining on a case-by-case basis to try and determine if there is a good reason for them to spike in performance like they do.
It's quite the strange design choice to make higher tier gear scale up more than lower tier stuff, isn't it? Doesn't it seem it would be logical for higher tiers to give diminishing returns on investment?
as an example, take a look at shield extenders:
STD 22 HP ADV 33 HP PRO 66 HP
Wouldn't it make much more sense to do something like:
STD 22 ADV 33 PRO 40
With this sort of balance, veterans would be grinding for AN EDGE instead of grinding for a massive advantage.
As far as I'm concerned, until guys in serious matches are running with a mix of STD, ADV, and PRO gear to maximize their output, the balance is all wrong.
leveling should lead to more OPTIONS and customization, not deliberate advantages where the rule thumb is to pack as much proto gear as possible onto every fit. |
Cobra CLUTCH79
OVERLORDS OF THE ONI SERPENT
27
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 04:11:00 -
[117] - Quote
give her time she'll get better. with time comes skill. |
J3f3r20n Gh057
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
46
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 04:14:00 -
[118] - Quote
Why CCP dont make a proper Tutorial explainning everything with pictures or vids or somethings? this tutorial we have is deplorable.
Back on Metal Gear Online, there was an option to search battle based on you level, CCP could do the same thing based on life time SP, idk, maybe tier based search with militia, adv and proto option.
Every PSN game that i've played have a Online Manual section below the "exit game" on XMB.
And really, 400 wp? Then kick the new players to instant battle where they will face Corps like 0uter.Heaven, D3lta Forc3, all those big overpowered corps with players that are playing this game since its foundantion?
Unfair CCP, Unfair.
At least there's some good folks trying to help. |
J3f3r20n Gh057
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
46
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 04:33:00 -
[119] - Quote
^ Here we have a well done tutorial about a gunplay technique. Really, new players NEED to see this video, really interesting. |
XxWarlordxX97
187.
4422
|
Posted - 2013.08.10 04:40:00 -
[120] - Quote
J3f3r20n Gh057 wrote:^ Here we have a well done tutorial about a gunplay technique. Really, new players NEED to see this video, really interesting. It will lead to less deaths, and please if you are new this will really help |
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