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Knight Soiaire
Better Hide R Die
1660
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
894
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
I know the feeling...my guess is that they want a weapon that instantly evaporates people before the even start shooting. A weapon that you just die by looking at it ;
- Look a HMG !! Crap in dead. |
Che Cortez
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
43
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Posted - 2013.08.08 12:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
I haven't heard of cries for a Hmg buff in quantity for months, they do suffer a little at the top tiers but still have their place.
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Cat Merc
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
3951
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:05:00 -
[4] - Quote
A lot of heavies on the forums (D legendary as an example) seek to be so powerful that it takes multiple medium frames to take them down
Example: He suggested to buff the damage of the HMG to 34 per bullet |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
289
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
Questions are: - what made you create that post. - What dropsuit setup were you using - What HMG did he used? - Did he had is gun in your mouth or he was 40m away?
I never felt the HMG was underpowered really. It is just not the all around weapon that does good in every situation. The only thing worth complaining about for the heavy class is the lack of variety.
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Cat Merc
DUST CORE DARKSTAR ARMY
3951
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
martinofski wrote:Questions are: - what made you create that post. - What dropsuit setup were you using - What HMG did he used? - Did he had is gun in your mouth or he was 40m away?
I never felt the HMG was underpowered really. It is just not the all around weapon that does good in every situation. The only thing worth complaining about for the heavy class is the lack of variety.
HMG's shred at CQC, have decent damage at medium range (In fact, it rivals the DPS of AR's at that range) and only after that it starts suffering. I use this weapon when I feel like having mindless shoot outs. |
SOGZ PANDA
The Southern Legion
8
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:12:00 -
[7] - Quote
The only REAL difference in the hmg is that they took out sharpshooter
when that was taken out the bullet spread became more dispersed and therefore wouldn't drop people from 100ms away lol :P
(noted it is over exaggerating) |
Jimthefighter
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
6
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
I actually found that the range the HMG shreds at might be a little bit too small. I was up against a HMG with my Breach SMG in my basic medium suit, both blazing away at each other from about 15-20 meters (don't remember, it wasn't far, but it wasn't hugging each other). I'm pretty sure he wasn't using ADS and yet at such a relativly close range I still beat him handily.
I didn't sneak up on him, and all the damage he'd already taken was most (but not all) of his shields. No one else was firing on him. It was kinda odd. It the accuracy difference THAT much for the HMG between ADS and not? Or was my weapon at that range a good counter? |
martinofski
Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire
289
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
turn speed |
N1ck Comeau
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
929
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
HMG's with proficiency maxed and a damage mod, tear you up in a second. |
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Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
416
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
yep definitely turn speed, and also aiming down sight with the HMG is bad because the fire/flare/light from the weapon when firing is so blinding that you can't really track/see someone properly. so with HMG its better to just fire from the hip since we can see the target much easier. |
Lucifalic
Baked n Loaded
43
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Posted - 2013.08.08 13:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Shouldn't have more turn speed. It's a ... Wait for it... HEAVY weapon. Ps I'm not an ar user. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
3368
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 13:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
There WAS an issue with HMGs when Uprising first dropped.
Basically, they barely outranged SHOTGUNS at that point, and near the maximum limit of Shotgun range, Shotgun Scouts could damage-race Heavies of equal tier. It got fixed, because that had been... ummm... "stupid" isn't quite strong enough, but I suspect anything more accurate is likely to be censored.
Anyway, I'm happy with how HMGs are right now in terms of damage and range. So are most Heavy players I know. Turn speed and visibility while firing are still concerns for some, but as a non-Heavy myself, I don't feel justified in commenting on those elements. I can speak on balance discussions regarding damage and range, since I've helped players testing those aspects of various weapons in several builds, but the other factors are best discussed by people who play the role. |
low genius
the sound of freedom Renegade Alliance
260
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff?
i wouldn't say it's underpowered. i would say that it suffers from not being able to alpha-volley effectively as an ar does. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
998
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
The aiming changes in 1.4 i think are going to bring the HMG into its own for this build. Faster turn speed and easier tracking...
Think then maybe a little (really little) buff to the proto HMG and we're golden |
smoking the kind
RestlessSpirits D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
1
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff?
ok, I am a heavy and the only thing a HMG is good for is CQC, it is not necessarily under powered but does need to be polished up a lot to actually compete with other CQC weapons. Example, in CQC I can take people down quicker with my basic SMG than I can with a basic HMG. So the HMG like a lot of things in this game does deserve to be looked at and worked on, if it had a tighter cone of fire at close range, and or better aiming then the damage it has now now would be much better applied. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4027
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hit detection and the inability to "snare" enemies with something like a slow effect. |
Knight Soiaire
Better Hide R Die
1667
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Hit detection and the inability to "snare" enemies with something like a slow effect.
That Snare effect would kill Scouts.
Unless of course, Scouts get a special immunity to it. |
Soldiersaint
Deepspace Digital
311
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:23:00 -
[19] - Quote
The HMG is a defensive stance weapon same with the heavy suit. People want to run and gun with it. That is the wrong way to use the gun. (IMO) Heavies should play defensive and stay near teammates vehicles or objectives. You will rack up plenty of enemies like that trust me. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4027
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:Cosgar wrote:Hit detection and the inability to "snare" enemies with something like a slow effect. That Snare effect would kill Scouts. Unless of course, Scouts get a special immunity to it. Unless a scout is trying to face a heavy head on, I don't see a problem with this. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
4027
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
Soldiersaint wrote:The HMG is a defensive stance weapon same with the heavy suit. People want to run and gun with it. That is the wrong way to use the gun. (IMO) Heavies should play defensive and stay near teammates vehicles or objectives. You will rack up plenty of enemies like that trust me. When the other racial heavies come out, are they all going to be defensive? I'm okay with the Amarr being defensive, but what if the Minmatar or Gallente are more mobile for leading a charge into CQC areas? |
Kam Elto
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
51
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? it takes a few seconds of firing to get the bullet dispersion to it's minimum. so when you're running away the hmg is at it's maximum accuracy. you may be better off juking and jumping up close. we can't track enemies that well. |
Taeryn Frost
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
32
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
So many potent upclose weapons I need to stay away from. Maybe I should just go Tac AR and keep my distance...if only I could aim |
FATPrincess - XOXO
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
395
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Posted - 2013.08.08 14:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's the stupid hit detection and slow turn speed that makes it so frustrating to use.
-XOXO |
Paladin Sas
Pro Hic Immortalis League of Infamy
205
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:02:00 -
[25] - Quote
First - i am not a heavy. i run a proto caldari assault, last time i played with a HMG was in Precurser
second - my experience may be somewhat one sided, but im not sure its a damage buff the heavies need. that being said, i do tend to shred them pretty easily at medium range and would like to see them have a wee bit more firepower at distance. my thoughts on this being: 1. increase the optimal range of the HMG by about 5-10 yards. 2. introduce a sharpshooter skill that either tightens the spread faster when firing, or decreases maximum spread so that it can get really frikkin accurate.
these may seem meaningless, but its my personal belief that a slightly longer optimal with the ability to either get to maximum accuracy faster or get even more accurate over a duration may give the HMG the range it needs to at least decently defend itself. again, i dont want it to be to strong. at 30meters, an equal skilled AR should win vs a HMG, but at 20meters, it should be close with the odds weighed in the HMGs favor.
just my 0.02 ISK |
castba
Penguin's March
68
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Have only skilled into lvl 1 HMG, but I honestly find it to be quite easy to kill with. Dunno what the complaining is about. Maybe a very slightly decreased dispersion would be nice, say sharpshooter is 2% decrease per level, but it does heaps of damage so no additional needed really. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
88
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
it is funny to see all these mediums talk about the HMG. Try using it. You will notice you are firing 75% blanks. Not that it is UP but there are certain flaws that make it extremely frustrating to use.
-The pinpoint reticle on the cursor must be exactly on the hitbox of an enemy otherwise you are firing blanks. -No rounds outside of that point (the spread from the cone of fire) do damage. -Turn speed is ridiculous now that strafing has been picked up, not so much regular turn speed, but while firing, the HMG seems to not want to move. -Bugs when trying to swap weapons, especially when empty -Performance wise, ARs and ScRs have much higher DPS.
The list goes on but even I do not want to read all of it. And don't get me started on the role of the sentinel suit. "Stand guard on a point." You mean get out ranged, out maneuvered, or harassed/skirmish to death. In dust, HMGs work best as the center of an infantry assault team. A couple assaults at their flanks, a logi to their reserve, and a AV unit nearby...they turn into a walking redline, killing everything. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
879
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Posted - 2013.08.08 15:56:00 -
[28] - Quote
The main issue was the lack of range and the fact that the Heavy suits role is very unclear... Is it just a heavy weapons platform, or a defensive guarding suit, or an offensive linchpin? The problem with any of these is that DUST is mostly wide open spaces and the game modes do not promote defensive actions. |
TunRa
The Vanguardians
23
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Posted - 2013.08.08 16:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
I don't know what it is, but a SMG can match my boundles HMG. But if I have my Six Kin you better start running! |
Cosgar
ParagonX
4037
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 16:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
TunRa wrote:I don't know what it is, but a SMG can match my boundles HMG. But if I have my Six Kin you better start running! I don't know why, but sidearms seem to be the most consistent weapons in uprising and all the aiming issues. |
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oso tiburon
The Generals EoN.
192
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:15:00 -
[31] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? you probably are a gallente or ammar user so this wouldnt really make sense / but ill speak slowly
we all know that the different weapons deal different damage to certain types of hp i.e hybrid good for both . energy good vs shields . projectile good vs armor . ok follow me here
as heavys we have only one yes count only one type of true anit infantry weapon (the forge gun is not considered a.i.)
now count how many different flavors of suits we have ..... one thats right people one ok not bitching now take my ammar hybrid heavy against a cal assult or logi take into account the fect i have a -10 % damage modifyer against shields ok now take into the effect that still 60 % of players out there run cal suits and the hmg hes the lowest dps out of all the weapons . now ive been a heavy since chromosone im not crying for a buff or nerf just understand when i pull out my forge gun while i see 12 cal assults and logis running around with mass drivers why thats going on |
oso tiburon
The Generals EoN.
192
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:16:00 -
[32] - Quote
oso tiburon wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? you probably are a gallente or ammar user so this wouldnt really make sense / but ill speak slowly we all know that the different weapons deal different damage to certain types of hp i.e hybrid good for both . energy good vs shields . projectile good vs armor . ok follow me here as heavys we have only one yes count only one type of true anit infantry weapon (the forge gun is not considered a.i.) now count how many different flavors of suits we have ..... one thats right people one ok not bitching now take my ammar hybrid heavy against a cal assult or logi take into account the fect i have a -10 % damage modifyer against shields ok now take into the effect that still 60 % of players out there run cal suits and the hmg hes the lowest dps out of all the weapons . now ive been a heavy since chromosone im not crying for a buff or nerf just understand when i pull out my forge gun while i see 12 cal assults and logis running around with mass drivers why thats going on we dont need a buff we need the rest of our suits and weapons long story short and real heavys aint cryin for nothing we are used to being second class to the call of dusty players |
oso tiburon
The Generals EoN.
192
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 18:17:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kam Elto wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? it takes a few seconds of firing to get the bullet dispersion to it's minimum. so when you're running away the hmg is at it's maximum accuracy. you may be better off juking and jumping up close. we can't track enemies that well. btw kam gg last night |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:40:00 -
[34] - Quote
everyone wants to be invincible |
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
223
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:42:00 -
[35] - Quote
oso tiburon wrote:Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? you probably are a gallente or ammar user so this wouldnt really make sense / but ill speak slowly we all know that the different weapons deal different damage to certain types of hp i.e hybrid good for both . energy good vs shields . projectile good vs armor . ok follow me here as heavys we have only one yes count only one type of true anit infantry weapon (the forge gun is not considered a.i.) now count how many different flavors of suits we have ..... one thats right people one ok not bitching now take my ammar hybrid heavy against a cal assult or logi take into account the fect i have a -10 % damage modifyer against shields ok now take into the effect that still 60 % of players out there run cal suits and the hmg hes the lowest dps out of all the weapons . now ive been a heavy since chromosone im not crying for a buff or nerf just understand when i pull out my forge gun while i see 12 cal assults and logis running around with mass drivers why thats going on heavy suit can fit any and every weapon there is to offer
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Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
1164
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff?
Are you running straight at it?
Because when last I checked if you attacked from behind we can't turn around in time in kill you. If you are a proto-assault with shield stacking and competent strafing, we can't tear down your shields before you kill us outright.
Here's a better question -- why are you in CQC in the first place? As a lighter frame, you control the distance we fight at. So take a few steps back and there's nothing we can do but die.
Here's another tip -- if we are forced to move, our accuracy and DPS drops completely. That means we cannot strafe in combat without losing more than half of our effectiveness. So why are you losing to an enemy that is standing still? If we are not standing still, why is your health so low that we're able to kill you? |
Rusty Shallows
Black Jackals
234
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:55:00 -
[37] - Quote
Knight Soiaire wrote:How the HMG is underpowered?
Whenever I get into CQC with these things they tear me apart, taking my down in atleast a second or less. Even when I try run they still do incredible damage.
So whats the deal with it, and how does it deserve a damage buff? More data please.
Yesterday I got up close behind someone hacking an objective, tossed a flux, and it still took more than a second to kill someone stationary up close (HMG Prof 4, enhanced damage mod, baseline adv weapon). From experience I could have killed him quicker with my SMG or an AR. My Toxin to the head of a stationary target eats through armor. |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
592
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Posted - 2013.08.08 18:59:00 -
[38] - Quote
Been using it a bit more recently, been getting results. Speedfitted ADV Basic, two Complex Kinetic Catalysts, one Complex Damage, STD HMG, 6.7 m/s sprint. A heavy blitzer essentially.
The recoil and restriction on aiming can be mitigated without losing accuracy by feathering a little on the trigger. Medium range precision is better than you'd think... shoot for half a second while strafing then zero in on the head and crouch. It sounds silly but what will actually happen is your accuracy will increase so sharply that every single round will pile into their head killing them nigh-instantly.
Speed heavy is also great fun for ambushing if you play the terrain. No-one expects speed heavy. Lack of rep is the price paid but I think it's worth it. Controlling range and the terms of engagement with a HMG is wonderful, especially if you can also seize the element of surprise. |
I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
577
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Posted - 2013.08.08 19:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
The bullets don't register (do damage) unless the dot in the center of our reticule turns red.
Go test this out guys, I'm speaking the truth here. It's probably what is making our weapon feel "underpowered" right now |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3338
|
Posted - 2013.08.08 19:11:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: HMG's shred at CQC, have decent damage at medium range (In fact, it rivals the DPS of AR's at that range) and only after that it starts suffering. I use this weapon when I feel like having mindless shoot outs.
no. On paper it does, but paper stats doesn't equate the amount of dispersion and the length of time it takes to get decent accuracy. |
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I-Shayz-I
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
577
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Posted - 2013.08.08 19:14:00 -
[41] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:Cat Merc wrote: HMG's shred at CQC, have decent damage at medium range (In fact, it rivals the DPS of AR's at that range) and only after that it starts suffering. I use this weapon when I feel like having mindless shoot outs.
no. On paper it does, but paper stats doesn't equate the amount of dispersion and the length of time it takes to get decent accuracy.
Oh, and that dispersion doesn't even do damage. Bullets don't register unless we are directly aiming at a player and the dot turns red. |
Heathen Bastard
Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation
457
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Posted - 2013.08.08 19:42:00 -
[42] - Quote
The way I get kills is suppressive fire and idiots. watch for the chevron to approach to corner, hold down trigger, wait for numbnuts to walk into it. if they're smart and wait for you to go through a few bullets, hold off for about 2-3 seconds, makes them think you're reloading. then they pop out and you open fire, catching them off guard.
also, ALWAYS CROUCH! seriously, the thing kicks like a mule if you're standing. crouching though, what recoil? there's recoil? I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome this gun is to fire! |
calvin b
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
222
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Posted - 2013.08.08 21:15:00 -
[43] - Quote
The HMG is a joke 10M or more away. I have to spend over two hundred rounds just to weaken someone so someone can still my kill. Its not so much the damage its the fact you have to put this little white dot right on target or you get squat for you effort. Also range is terrible bump it up another 20M and I would be happy. We get outgunned by range by a freakin shotgun. I used to fire 50 caliber HMG in the USMC have you ever seen what these can do to a human or even a light armored vehicle, this gun is a joke. There is a reason snipers use 50 caliber sniper rifles to kill the enemy, you don't even need to hit center target. All it takes is one round to hit your leg or arm and well lets says its not pretty. |
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