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Cross Atu wrote:

Can anyone who is reading this thread provide a first hand account of using either Injectors or Repair Tools to great effect in PC matches?

What are the shortcomings others are experiencing when using equipment in coordinated competitive battles?

From my own testing so far;

Injectors and Prox are essentially stricken from use.
Nanohives and Repair Tools are used moderately in selective situations when someone has left over PG/CPU (the exception being if you're assigned to a specific Heavy sometimes both are actually primary fittings considerations).
REs, Active Scanners, Uplinks - These are all virtually mandatory, usually more than one member of each squad is packing these as they have fewer bugs and more flexible applications thus being of higher value tactically.

I've continued testing myself, as well as gathering feedback in game from other Logi, but I would like more input from support players reading this thread, specifically regarding PC battles, or FW battles with organized teams on both sides.
[In Pubs I find it easy to make at least nominal use of all equipment but that is due to the disorganized nature of the opposing force allowing for more 'slack' times within combat and poorer levels of objective coverage. As such it seems a very poor metric upon which to base balance considerations.]

0.02 ISK
Cross

EDIT: Active Scanners are great, I've been testing STD-PRO lately, it would be nice if the equipment stat blocks all contained their scan profile now since there is clearly a mechanic in place for that. Also the 'stealth' types would be an even more tactical addition now that the Active Scanners are back and working.

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RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 411	Posted - 2013.08.20 19:14:00 - [31] - Quote I very much agree with your fixes. I don't see the suggested repair tool as problematic, I see it as the one I would probably uniquely run because of the possibility to negate damage and save a teammate as the game is currently. With your proposed fixes having a burst repper would be fun to run with - the proto level is the only put off, so naturally the price/pg/cpu is the cost of running such a machine. As well as the damage when overheated - or was that just a lower repair rate... no matter. Regardless it would be a fun toy to play around with and I could see it being a key piece of equipment that could turn a wave of battle by allowing a teammate to fire off those last few rounds to finish off a group. If/When they ever come out with secondary skills for the equipment I would like to see something like this being required to have repper proficiency 1 or something.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1637	Posted - 2013.08.26 16:23:00 - [32] - Quote Still seeking more feedback on this.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 1234	Posted - 2013.08.26 16:36:00 - [33] - Quote Note, in the new patch, somehow equipment will be 'scannable'... I'm wondering if this means they have an, as yet declared scan profile?
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1638	Posted - 2013.08.26 22:57:00 - [34] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Note, in the new patch, somehow equipment will be 'scannable'... I'm wondering if this means they have an, as yet declared scan profile? I believe this to be accurate, and despite my repeated calls on the forum for a fix to the uplink sight bug I believe that the fix has been caught up by the larger rework it was a part of (which is totally understandable even with my impatience ). At this point however all of that is still in the inference pile as I cannot directly confirm it. 0.02 ISK Cross
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 1675	Posted - 2013.09.03 07:00:00 - [35] - Quote Still looking for new ideas, hoping that 1.4 will spark some fresh thoughts See you all on the battlefield tomorrow Cross
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 1247	Posted - 2013.09.03 07:56:00 - [36] - Quote gargantuise aaron wrote: They already have a long range and a broad range, maybe one that has a very large scanning area thst only pics up vehicles Certainly would be interesting to see variants that could only pick up vehicles, variants only for equipment, and even variants for specific suit types (frame/racial). -Also, I have thought about scanners that outline enemies on-screen so essentially you can see where they are through walls. However, scan duration could be a mere 2 seconds for a long cooldown, so essentially you get their position at any one time, but not their movement. -I think introducing repair tools with multiple streams at lower tiers would be awesome to see, with appropriate reductions to amount of armour repaired. -Have 3-4 stream repair tools at higher levels with a basic repair tool's repair rate. -Repair tools which can curve streams around corners. For all deployables, in addition to hardened and stealth variants, perhaps anti-flux variants too. And for countering equipment, there should be an option to hack or sabotage enemy equipment. Hacking gives you possession, sabotaging means the equipment becomes unstable: -Sabotaged uplinks could explode and kill the next person who spawns in -Sabotaged nanohives drain ammo -Sabotaged remote explosives don't explode, but still count as a deployed RE. etc. Nanite Injectors: throwable versions?
Bettie Boop 2100190003 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 114	Posted - 2013.09.04 10:22:00 - [37] - Quote If your going to get into scanners that pick up specific things, how about nanohives that look like a player at range? eg Drop a nanohive and any one scanning or looking (over a certain distance) sees a ping on the mini map or "holo" image of a player. Would be great for; sniper bait, "guarding" an objective, baiting a tank, and best of all, getting your opponent to drop their orbital on 10 "players" crouded together! I can honestly say that I would much rather have CCP focusing on fixing / improving current equipment & mechanics than adding new stuff that may or may not work. Either way Ill see what they do to equipment in 1.4 and check back after that.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 1695	Posted - 2013.09.12 18:53:00 - [38] - Quote Can anyone who is reading this thread provide a first hand account of using either Injectors or Repair Tools to great effect in PC matches? What are the shortcomings others are experiencing when using equipment in coordinated competitive battles? From my own testing so far; Injectors and Prox are essentially stricken from use. Nanohives and Repair Tools are used moderately in selective situations when someone has left over PG/CPU (the exception being if you're assigned to a specific Heavy sometimes both are actually primary fittings considerations). REs, Active Scanners, Uplinks - These are all virtually mandatory, usually more than one member of each squad is packing these as they have fewer bugs and more flexible applications thus being of higher value tactically. I've continued testing myself, as well as gathering feedback in game from other Logi, but I would like more input from support players reading this thread, specifically regarding PC battles, or FW battles with organized teams on both sides. [In Pubs I find it easy to make at least nominal use of all equipment but that is due to the disorganized nature of the opposing force allowing for more 'slack' times within combat and poorer levels of objective coverage. As such it seems a very poor metric upon which to base balance considerations.] 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Active Scanners are great, I've been testing STD-PRO lately, it would be nice if the equipment stat blocks all contained their scan profile now since there is clearly a mechanic in place for that. Also the 'stealth' types would be an even more tactical addition now that the Active Scanners are back and working.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1562	Posted - 2013.09.12 19:01:00 - [39] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Can anyone who is reading this thread provide a first hand account of using either Injectors or Repair Tools to great effect in PC matches? What are the shortcomings others are experiencing when using equipment in coordinated competitive battles? From my own testing so far; Injectors and Prox are essentially stricken from use. Nanohives and Repair Tools are used moderately in selective situations when someone has left over PG/CPU (the exception being if you're assigned to a specific Heavy sometimes both are actually primary fittings considerations). REs, Active Scanners, Uplinks - These are all virtually mandatory, usually more than one member of each squad is packing these as they have fewer bugs and more flexible applications thus being of higher value tactically. I've continued testing myself, as well as gathering feedback in game from other Logi, but I would like more input from support players reading this thread, specifically regarding PC battles, or FW battles with organized teams on both sides. [In Pubs I find it easy to make at least nominal use of all equipment but that is due to the disorganized nature of the opposing force allowing for more 'slack' times within combat and poorer levels of objective coverage. As such it seems a very poor metric upon which to base balance considerations.] 0.02 ISK Cross I haven't had more than half a dozen PC matches but my observations pretty much are that you are right about injectors at least. The damage meta seems to revolve around ARs and explosives which means either your team gets wiped out, or your clone is eliminated on death, preventing pickups. I could see this evolving with the new, more open maps with longer range engagements. I really think REs, scanners and uplinks are the underutilized counter to the zerg meta as mentioned above. However, MDs make it hard to deploy reliable REs. In general, I just haven't seen much a defensive game evolve, which means a lot of what logis get points for in pub matches just isn't there. I'm guessing this is a function of having such high damage close range weapons that have been relied on for so long. The new map design will hopefully push us out of this so that early detection can yield strong returns on effectiveness. It just right now the strategy just seems to involve 50% of the team or more just steamrolling a single objective at a time.
Bettie Boop 2100190003 A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 149	Posted - 2013.09.13 01:59:00 - [40] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Can anyone who is reading this thread provide a first hand account of using either Injectors or Repair Tools to great effect in PC matches? What are the shortcomings others are experiencing when using equipment in coordinated competitive battles? From my own testing so far; Injectors and Prox are essentially stricken from use. Nanohives and Repair Tools are used moderately in selective situations when someone has left over PG/CPU (the exception being if you're assigned to a specific Heavy sometimes both are actually primary fittings considerations). REs, Active Scanners, Uplinks - These are all virtually mandatory, usually more than one member of each squad is packing these as they have fewer bugs and more flexible applications thus being of higher value tactically. I've continued testing myself, as well as gathering feedback in game from other Logi, but I would like more input from support players reading this thread, specifically regarding PC battles, or FW battles with organized teams on both sides. [In Pubs I find it easy to make at least nominal use of all equipment but that is due to the disorganized nature of the opposing force allowing for more 'slack' times within combat and poorer levels of objective coverage. As such it seems a very poor metric upon which to base balance considerations.] 0.02 ISK Cross EDIT: Active Scanners are great, I've been testing STD-PRO lately, it would be nice if the equipment stat blocks all contained their scan profile now since there is clearly a mechanic in place for that. Also the 'stealth' types would be an even more tactical addition now that the Active Scanners are back and working. -So my corp requires uplinks at lvl 3 with Arum 4 with out for everyone in PC matches, by far the most important equipment to bring into the battle. -The second most important piece of equipment is the Triage Nanohive (proto level), you can have 2 deployed and move to another area, so your team knows they can go to ____ spot for some healing. They can also be dropped in defensive areas so your team can be getting healed while being shot at. -Scanners have become more of a priority with they way shared sight works now, it makes dropping an OB much easier. -Ammo nanohives generally are not needed, most of your team will be dying too fast to run out of ammo. But for those matches where you need them, its good to have a suit set up so you can just pull that out next time. -Remote explosives are the domain of scouts, they are great for putting just around courners of choke points so you can (hopefully) get a few kills with one go. They also make people scared of rushing areas, once you see 3 people get blown up with REs you start looking for them which makes you easier to kill. -Repair tools and Nanohives are for the most part in the same boat, dont even bother bringing them. Because in most PC matches the enemy (if they are smart) will put 5ish more bullets into you to make sure you cant be picked up if they see a needle on the field. Which makes the equipment completely worthless. The repair tool on the other hand can be useful but has very limited use and if you have Proto Nanohices or uplinks you should be using those before a proto repair tool. Hope that helps, if you have any more questions feel free to ask here or send an ingame mail.

Pseudonym2 The Pyramid Order The Nova Foundry 30	Posted - 2013.09.13 02:31:00 - [41] - Quote Myself, I've found that the lack of health bars and names has severely limited the utility of the repair tool, as I can't reach a friendly player in time to rep them even if they ask for help. Likewise, the increased tendency of squad-mates to be instantly clone-killed has made needles oftentimes a poor investment, and I've taken them off of most of my suits. My corp-mate who uses healing hives has had some success with them, but it often leads to using them for healing and seldom actually receiving any ammo from them before they're expended. Uplinks and standard hives still seem useful for war points, but their true tactical usefulness is still dictated by situation. I'd far more like these points to be addressed than the addition of new features. Also, I particularly don't like the idea of stealth uplinks, there is already ample opportunity for enemies to spawn directly behind you in this game.
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1697	Posted - 2013.09.15 00:45:00 - [42] - Quote Pseudonym2 wrote: Myself, I've found that the lack of health bars and names has severely limited the utility of the repair tool, as I can't reach a friendly player in time to rep them even if they ask for help. Likewise, the increased tendency of squad-mates to be instantly clone-killed has made needles oftentimes a poor investment, and I've taken them off of most of my suits. My corp-mate who uses healing hives has had some success with them, but it often leads to using them for healing and seldom actually receiving any ammo from them before they're expended. Uplinks and standard hives still seem useful for war points, but their true tactical usefulness is still dictated by situation. I'd far more like these points to be addressed than the addition of new features. Also, I particularly don't like the idea of stealth uplinks, there is already ample opportunity for enemies to spawn directly behind you in this game. Regarding fixing issues within the Equipment line, I tend to agree it is important and I have a thread related to it linked in the OP. Thanks for the feedback
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1728	Posted - 2013.09.19 16:22:00 - [43] - Quote Still seeking more feedback here, also does anyone have thoughts related to the upcoming shield bubble and cloak?
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1641	Posted - 2013.09.19 16:24:00 - [44] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Still seeking more feedback here, also does anyone have thoughts related to the upcoming shield bubble and cloak? Where are those confirmed to actually be on a near term timeline? Just don't want to get up expectations...
Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention 1728	Posted - 2013.09.19 16:27:00 - [45] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Cross Atu wrote: Still seeking more feedback here, also does anyone have thoughts related to the upcoming shield bubble and cloak? Where are those confirmed to actually be on a near term timeline? Just don't want to get up expectations... I should clarify, they are confirmed as coming they are not confirmed as coming any sooner than SOONtm. However since there was a Dev blog discussing them and confirming that they would show up at some point I figured they were fair game for conversation. Cheers, Cross PS ~ Good catch on this, I don't want anyone to get the wrong idea here.
Ku Shala Planetary Response Organization Test Friends Please Ignore 527	Posted - 2013.09.19 16:46:00 - [46] - Quote the sheild bubbles should become more powerful when deployed within a certain range of each other or cover a greater area like 10% bonus to area covered if 2 or more sheild bubles are deployed within 3 m of each other or something like that. Also I would like to see a peice of equipment like the teleportor in UT3 That allows you to get to location you cant climb.
Patt MaCrotch Dem Durrty Boyz Public Disorder. 27	Posted - 2013.09.19 20:02:00 - [47] - Quote Not sure if this has been suggested but I would like to see a nanohive that offers a scanner pulse for a set amount of time or so many pulses. Would be useful for defense of a point. Would also like to see points given for destroying uplinks. That is a primary target of mine when I am deploying uplinks and is a crucial activity as far as I am concerned. You get 50 for one kill but how many enemy combatants are stopping by eliminating an uplink? You get points for destroying a CRU. A rep tool that offers a secondary fire mode that deals damage so you can run around with the retool out and defend yourself at the same time. Nothing crazy, like a semi auto pistol or make the healing beam deal damage to enemies.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1646	Posted - 2013.09.19 20:05:00 - [48] - Quote Patt MaCrotch wrote: Not sure if this has been suggested but I would like to see a nanohive that offers a scanner pulse for a set amount of time or so many pulses. Would be useful for defense of a point. Would also like to see points given for destroying uplinks. That is a primary target of mine when I am deploying uplinks and is a crucial activity as far as I am concerned. You get 50 for one kill but how many enemy combatants are stopping by eliminating an uplink? You get points for destroying a CRU. A rep tool that offers a secondary fire mode that deals damage so you can run around with the retool out and defend yourself at the same time. Nothing crazy, like a semi auto pistol or make the healing beam deal damage to enemies. I think it would make more sense to see this 'deployable scanners' as a secondary attribute of uplinks rather than nanohives.


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