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Beren Hurin wrote:

Kiriasis Draca wrote:

Beren Hurin wrote:

Are you talking about being on the receiving end of a mass driver here?

No, I mean why do they always crowd me. I get the feeling I'm standing in a group of toddlers throwing sticks at each other and praying they hit the kid they don't like while I, being the tall one (not so much, lol) am the main target because they won't get out of the way.

I actually have a sort of psychological theory about mass drivers being primary targets (I think this is what you might be asking).

It sort of has to do with something I heard about magic tricks a while back and finally found again...

If you scroll down about 2/3 of the page you see them talking about the neuroscience behind how our eyes track motion. Apparently our eyes track straight lines differently than arcs. When our eyes observe arcs they get a little short circuited. They want to track the source and motion of the arc rather than the direction or endpoint of the arc. This causes some issues with the mass driver user.

With straight lines, our eyes end up looking first toward the end point. If true, I think this puts mass driver users at a disadvantage in two ways. It also confirms a lot of experience I feel like I have as a Mass Driver player.

The first thing I think it confirms is my 'lone gunman' complex. As a mass driver user, often I feel like I'm shooting at clear targets that nobody else is bothering to shoot at. Blue dots often seem to just look the other way, as I get a target into armor and then can't finish them off because I run out of rounds. The neuroscience theory would suggest that the straight lines of other AR/laser/scrambler/pistol/HMG etc shots will be tracked toward their target much ore impulsively by the eyes than the arc of a mass driver bolt will.

If anything, the eyes of other players will subconsciously observe the smoking trail of your mass driver, then look to you, then back to the trail, think "that's pretty" and then look over toward the tracer trail of the assault rifle rounds that just wizzed by.

Additionally, I believe this theory also confirms my masochist complex. Not only do I walk around in a bright yellow armor tanked trench coat that screams 'I am slow and can't run away' but it seems that even in the middle of other players I am targeted first. If you apply the 'arc-line theory', among a set of players most of whom are firing 'lines' and you are firing in an 'arc' the eyes of the enemy will be drawn first to the origin of the arc.

What I think I've found then, is that a mass driver can avoid these problems if he embraces the support aspect of his weapon, and begins firing only after his squad has picked their primary target (drawing the other team's attention to their primary) but also maximizing his squad's damaging effect rather than wasting rounds on someone who they may not target. Only when you can get the jump with a flux grenade is it normally safe to solo a target.

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Spycrab Potato Hold-Your-Fire 182	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:20:00 - [31] - Quote Keep 'em coming. I love answering questions about my favorite gun.
Spycrab Potato Hold-Your-Fire 182	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:21:00 - [32] - Quote KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cosgar wrote: Tired of getting blown up? Want to find a way to kill a MD user? Think the mass driver is nothing more than a noob tube with 6 rounds? Trying to make it into the next FotM? New to the weapon and need some trade secrets? Tired of crying nerf on the forums, only to be countered with fancy mathematics and numbers to prove you wrong and you just want to vent? Here's your chance to ask a Masshole. Go ahead, ask me anything. If any other Massholes want to chime in to answer the flow of questions, feel free. Ok. Why the second i have my HP dropped below -+ a Mass driver user appears? What is this Kind of Black magic? Sorcery? I mean its just randomly or Md users actually go around looking for people with low life? I never fight MD users when i have Full Life... Is the breach Mass driver seriously THAT bad compared to the other 2? I mean it does take more skill to use But im guessing the extra damage is useful? no? explain please... I feel like with the breach, it isn't worth the RoF. I would much rather go with my EXO. I don't use the freedom mainly because it costs too much money xD And for the low life part, if I see someone is low and they are running I will pop a pot-shot off hoping for the best. I don't usually single out the low life people.
Justin Tymes Raymond James Corp 278	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:21:00 - [33] - Quote Yeah, you won't master the MD until you learn how to blind-fire consistently. It drives snipers crazy, and it's one of the main advantages the MD has over other weapons. Alot easier to do with the Assault than the Standard.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 926	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:23:00 - [34] - Quote Kiriasis Draca wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Are you talking about being on the receiving end of a mass driver here? No, I mean why do they always crowd me. I get the feeling I'm standing in a group of toddlers throwing sticks at each other and praying they hit the kid they don't like while I, being the tall one (not so much, lol) am the main target because they won't get out of the way. I actually have a sort of psychological theory about mass drivers being primary targets (I think this is what you might be asking). It sort of has to do with something I heard about magic tricks a while back and finally found again... If you scroll down about 2/3 of the page you see them talking about the neuroscience behind how our eyes track motion. Apparently our eyes track straight lines differently than arcs. When our eyes observe arcs they get a little short circuited. They want to track the source and motion of the arc rather than the direction or endpoint of the arc. This causes some issues with the mass driver user. With straight lines, our eyes end up looking first toward the end point. If true, I think this puts mass driver users at a disadvantage in two ways. It also confirms a lot of experience I feel like I have as a Mass Driver player. The first thing I think it confirms is my 'lone gunman' complex. As a mass driver user, often I feel like I'm shooting at clear targets that nobody else is bothering to shoot at. Blue dots often seem to just look the other way, as I get a target into armor and then can't finish them off because I run out of rounds. The neuroscience theory would suggest that the straight lines of other AR/laser/scrambler/pistol/HMG etc shots will be tracked toward their target much ore impulsively by the eyes than the arc of a mass driver bolt will. If anything, the eyes of other players will subconsciously observe the smoking trail of your mass driver, then look to you, then back to the trail, think "that's pretty" and then look over toward the tracer trail of the assault rifle rounds that just wizzed by. Additionally, I believe this theory also confirms my masochist complex. Not only do I walk around in a bright yellow armor tanked trench coat that screams 'I am slow and can't run away' but it seems that even in the middle of other players I am targeted first. If you apply the 'arc-line theory', among a set of players most of whom are firing 'lines' and you are firing in an 'arc' the eyes of the enemy will be drawn first to the origin of the arc. What I think I've found then, is that a mass driver can avoid these problems if he embraces the support aspect of his weapon, and begins firing only after his squad has picked their primary target (drawing the other team's attention to their primary) but also maximizing his squad's damaging effect rather than wasting rounds on someone who they may not target. Only when you can get the jump with a flux grenade is it normally safe to solo a target.
Kiriasis Draca Penguin's March 62	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:30:00 - [35] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Kiriasis Draca wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Are you talking about being on the receiving end of a mass driver here? No, I mean why do they always crowd me. I get the feeling I'm standing in a group of toddlers throwing sticks at each other and praying they hit the kid they don't like while I, being the tall one (not so much, lol) am the main target because they won't get out of the way. I actually have a sort of psychological theory about mass drivers being primary targets (I think this is what you might be asking). It sort of has to do with something I heard about magic tricks a while back and finally found again... If you scroll down about 2/3 of the page you see them talking about the neuroscience behind how our eyes track motion. Apparently our eyes track straight lines differently than arcs. When our eyes observe arcs they get a little short circuited. They want to track the source and motion of the arc rather than the direction or endpoint of the arc. This causes some issues with the mass driver user. With straight lines, our eyes end up looking first toward the end point. If true, I think this puts mass driver users at a disadvantage in two ways. It also confirms a lot of experience I feel like I have as a Mass Driver player. The first thing I think it confirms is my 'lone gunman' complex. As a mass driver user, often I feel like I'm shooting at clear targets that nobody else is bothering to shoot at. Blue dots often seem to just look the other way, as I get a target into armor and then can't finish them off because I run out of rounds. The neuroscience theory would suggest that the straight lines of other AR/laser/scrambler/pistol/HMG etc shots will be tracked toward their target much ore impulsively by the eyes than the arc of a mass driver bolt will. If anything, the eyes of other players will subconsciously observe the smoking trail of your mass driver, then look to you, then back to the trail, think "that's pretty" and then look over toward the tracer trail of the assault rifle rounds that just wizzed by. Additionally, I believe this theory also confirms my masochist complex. Not only do I walk around in a bright yellow armor tanked trench coat that screams 'I am slow and can't run away' but it seems that even in the middle of other players I am targeted first. If you apply the 'arc-line theory', among a set of players most of whom are firing 'lines' and you are firing in an 'arc' the eyes of the enemy will be drawn first to the origin of the arc. What I think I've found then, is that a mass driver can avoid these problems if he embraces the support aspect of his weapon, and begins firing only after his squad has picked their primary target (drawing the other team's attention to their primary) but also maximizing his squad's damaging effect rather than wasting rounds on someone who they may not target. Only when you can get the jump with a flux grenade is it normally safe to solo a target. I like your methodical approach and applaud you thoroughly on it. I've seen the Mass Drivers running in threes sometimes and they are dangerously effective because it seems that at least one will open up with SMG fire to catch your attention while the corners of their triangle fire off Mass driver rounds. Of course, this is only really effective if there isn't players in squad together who move to always have someone within a certain distance away. I'd say ten to fifteen meters away is enough to throw a damper on any party trying to take out squad mates
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 928	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:31:00 - [36] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Yeah, you won't master the MD until you learn how to blind-fire consistently. It drives snipers crazy, and it's one of the main advantages the MD has over other weapons. Alot easier to do with the Assault than the Standard. It should be noted that this ability also comes with a disability. I call it 'blind-sighting'. Don't confuse this with blindfiring. The part of the aiming reticle that you primarily use to 'sight' and place damage on a target, won't normally even 'detect' the target or show their chevron as if you are looking at them. This compounds my 'lone gunman' problem as described above as their health info or chevron will not show up to the team and won't alert squad mates of a nearby enemy losing some health. Therefore, if a target isn't already red, and you are trying to 'blind-sight' them, you will likely probably ending up being the only one shooting them.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 929	Posted - 2013.08.04 04:39:00 - [37] - Quote Spycrab Potato wrote: KING CHECKMATE wrote: Cosgar wrote: Tired of getting blown up? Want to find a way to kill a MD user? Think the mass driver is nothing more than a noob tube with 6 rounds? Trying to make it into the next FotM? New to the weapon and need some trade secrets? Tired of crying nerf on the forums, only to be countered with fancy mathematics and numbers to prove you wrong and you just want to vent? Here's your chance to ask a Masshole. Go ahead, ask me anything. If any other Massholes want to chime in to answer the flow of questions, feel free. Ok. Why the second i have my HP dropped below -+ a Mass driver user appears? What is this Kind of Black magic? Sorcery? I mean its just randomly or Md users actually go around looking for people with low life? I never fight MD users when i have Full Life... Is the breach Mass driver seriously THAT bad compared to the other 2? I mean it does take more skill to use But im guessing the extra damage is useful? no? explain please... I feel like with the breach, it isn't worth the RoF. I would much rather go with my EXO. I don't use the freedom mainly because it costs too much money xD And for the low life part, if I see someone is low and they are running I will pop a pot-shot off hoping for the best. I don't usually single out the low life people. Well when you only have 6 rounds, you are thinking a lot more than an AR user "I have to make these shots count". Also armor just 'feels like" butter that you want your explosive rounds to cut into. You very quickly get used to aggressively pursuing people in armor rather than shields because you know that is the more effective application of your damage. It screws with your head...
Alena Ventrallis Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 40	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:13:00 - [38] - Quote What are your counter-arguments for the mass driver not being a noob tube? Explain your responses.
Kasote Denzara A Vulture 71	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:24:00 - [39] - Quote J4yne C0bb wrote: I know that it's not a noob tube, cause I actually was speced into it in Chromosome, but I was never any good at it. Aiming tips? Also, what the best way to kill you frakers, from a heavy perspective? Little hard to run up on you in my fatsuit, and most of you are too quick for forging. Comrade, the heavies have the better weapon. The Forge Gun. When this gun is in the proper hands, the MDers go into hiding. Hell, Plasma Cannon makes them hide when used properly. Forge Gun: For when you want a potato gun.
Cosgar ParagonX 3898	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:26:00 - [40] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: What are your counter-arguments for the mass driver not being a noob tube? Explain your responses. There isn't a militia MD and it's not included in any starter fittings.

Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 209	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:28:00 - [41] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: Yeah, you won't master the MD until you learn how to blind-fire consistently. It drives snipers crazy, and it's one of the main advantages the MD has over other weapons. Alot easier to do with the Assault than the Standard. Are you talking about hitting targets taking cover or using the arc to shoot over cover while the target is willingly trying to engage?
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 933	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:31:00 - [42] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: What are your counter-arguments for the mass driver not being a noob tube? Explain your responses. Have you not been reading? 1) 6 shots...make them count 2) Aiming/leading takes skill 3) aiming/leading doesn't cause target intel 4) getting caught during reload is dangerous 5) splash damage can kill you 6) splash damage can kill your team 7) masochist effect (see above) What makes it a noob tube to the people on the receiving end is that it is treated as if it is an AR when it isn't. When you people try to strafe it, or you try to shake off our flux grenades and continue brawling, that is YOUR mistake. You fight the MD differently. Tips for combating them: 1) Stay safely behind cover. 2) Avoid fighting in low areas. 3) Primary the mass driver. 4) If fluxed sprint for cover, don't try to out strafe the splash damage. 5) Run with a logi in squad, they can rep you from outside of MD splash range. Theoretically, with the logi wieiding proto repping tools and a good amount of armor buffer, (300+) you should be have a good shot at tanking most of an assault MD with a logi with max repping skills. This is almost guaranteed with a logi LAV, which once these are pushed into near-unemployment with the impact nerfs may finally start doing the work they were intended for.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 209	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:33:00 - [43] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: What are your counter-arguments for the mass driver not being a noob tube? Explain your responses. There's no HUD for round trajectory or target's estimated movement. Anyone who has cooked a hand grenade and seriously tried to hit someone can understand.
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 933	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:35:00 - [44] - Quote Along the lines of an appropriate nerf to Mass Drivers that I've been suggesting (don't nerf MDs, nerf fluxes by taking 1 away) they could make the icon for a flux grenade different than that of a regular. This way you get just a bit more of an advanced notice that the damage incoming is going to be to shields, and likely followed by a MD. It would be a little bit more of a signal to GTFO.
Cat Merc BetaMax. 3825	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:37:00 - [45] - Quote Do you love killing armor tankers with 3 shots?
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 224	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:40:00 - [46] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: What are your counter-arguments for the mass driver not being a noob tube? Explain your responses. The numbers have been posted dozens of times in the forums. The amount of DPS a nass driver can get at advanced level is roughly half of what an assault rifle can get at militia. Our ammo supply is short lived and we are constantly in the lookout for nanohives in which we have to stand still. Our ammo type depletes the nanohives faster than any other weapon except maybe grenades. We have to do a 1 2 punch to players using a combination of flux and mass driver; a tactic that is unique to this weapon and without which the weapon cannot perform to it's full potential. The damage potential in our clips 6, is also less than half the damage potential of the militia assault rifle 60. Our arc means we actually have to be experienced in where the projectile is going to hit instead of just knowing it will hit where the little cross says it will hit. At a distance we have to know how high to aim to actually hit the target; point and shoot weapons don't need this. We have to lead our targets to be able to get in good damage. the fitting requirements are among the highest in the light weapons category. In CQC a mass driver has to know how to engage the target or else he will commit suicide. We suffer from longer reload times than most weapon in the light category. *This weapon need much more of everything than most weapons in the light category. No matter how long the list is. Anyone who asks for a list explaining why the weapon is not a nube toob will not change his mind. To you good sir I say to use the mass driver for a month; in competitive matches, using similar suits to the other team; this mean not using an overly tanked super proto suit, and then come here and tell everyone how op the weapon is. overall the weapon is outclassed by any weapon in it's same tier. And the mass driver user more times than not will be outgunned if in a similar suit with a similar fit.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 224	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:43:00 - [47] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Do you love killing armor tankers with 3 shots? as much as we hate not being able to kill shield tankers with 6 or more
Beren Hurin The Vanguardians 933	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:44:00 - [48] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Do you love killing armor tankers with 3 shots? If by armor tankers you mean, players with <200 shield and <300 armor because they are either completely regen fit for close range shotgunning, or damage fit for ganking people with high damage and then getting out, then YES! If by 3 shots you are inferring FLUX then 2 hits from MD, then YES! If by 3 shots your are implying that the >3 second kill time is somehow not fair, then YES!...and then point you to the OHK from sniper rifles, forge guns, and plasma cannons along with the quicker kill time from shotguns and ARs, and some SMGs at close range, not to mention what headshots can do from all variety of weapons. I think I know where Cat Merc is coming from though here...
Justin Tymes Raymond James Corp 279	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:48:00 - [49] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Justin Tymes wrote: Yeah, you won't master the MD until you learn how to blind-fire consistently. It drives snipers crazy, and it's one of the main advantages the MD has over other weapons. Alot easier to do with the Assault than the Standard. It should be noted that this ability also comes with a disability. I call it 'blind-sighting'. Don't confuse this with blindfiring. The part of the aiming reticle that you primarily use to 'sight' and place damage on a target, won't normally even 'detect' the target or show their chevron as if you are looking at them. This compounds my 'lone gunman' problem as described above as their health info or chevron will not show up to the team and won't alert squad mates of a nearby enemy losing some health. Therefore, if a target isn't already red, and you are trying to 'blind-sight' them, you will probably end up being the only one shooting them. It depends the situation. Assuming you have elevation, you're dictating the flow of the battle, and you're pretty much soloing anyway, even with Drop Uplinks, Hives, and a mic. Shotting at one area can deter a squad from proceeding and focus their attention on you so that outnumbered allies can get to a better position. Shooting at a sniper will at the very least turn his attention on you and not the squad.
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 252	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:53:00 - [50] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: What are your counter-arguments for the mass driver not being a noob tube? Explain your responses. 1. A "noob tube" fires in a straight line, the MD does not. 2. A "noob tube" is a 1HK, the MD is not. 3. A "noob tube" kills quickly (1 or 2 shots), the MD does not. 4. A "noob tube" has a high ROF, the MD does not. 5. A "noob tube" has a high DPS, the MD does not. 6. A "noob tube" is an "I win" button in CQC, a MD is not. 7. A "noob tube" is the most annoying weapon in a match, the MD is not. (friggin' snipers) 8. A "noob tube" performs one function, a MD performs many. 9. A "noob tube" requires no skill to hit targets far away, the MD does. 10. A "noob tube" user is hated, a skilled MD user is respected.

Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 253	Posted - 2013.08.04 05:58:00 - [51] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Do you love killing armor tankers with 3 shots? Killing an armor tanker with three shots takes 3 seconds (If you're killed by an Assault MD in a faster time frame, either you're not an armor tanker or you were direct hit). Killing an armor tanker with an AR takes half that. So, if I have the time to pop off three well placed rounds one after the other, then yes it feels good.


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