DUST Search - A temporary vehicle fix until 1.5

Cosgar wrote:

#40 Posted: 2013.05.08 09:42 |

CCP Blam! wrote:

Hi all. I've been reading through and we appreciate your feedback.

You're right about the vehicle engineering skill. For the other posters, I'm assuming you mean the vehicle core upgrades skill?

The reason for lowering the overall bonus was to allow us to create a more varied difference in between our different vehicle roles within the same class. This will become more apparent in the future when we release even more roles with different slot layouts. We also want to make sure that new players have a fighting chance against more skill point rich players who can enjoy the benefit of compounding premium module bonuses in the same fitting. We'll be keeping a close eye on how this nets out in vehicle combat, and ensure that we still afford you the ability to create interesting and unique fits to compliment your combat experience.

Best regards,
- CCP Blam!

Seriously, can we get the Engineering skill buffed back up so vehicles can properly defend themselves until the rework? Consider it common courtesy or something since dedicated pilots have been completely shafted for to long. I'm not even a pilot anymore and I feel bad for them.

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Cosgar ParagonX 3678	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:14:00 - [1] - Quote #40 Posted: 2013.05.08 09:42 \| CCP Blam! wrote: Hi all. I've been reading through and we appreciate your feedback. You're right about the vehicle engineering skill. For the other posters, I'm assuming you mean the vehicle core upgrades skill? The reason for lowering the overall bonus was to allow us to create a more varied difference in between our different vehicle roles within the same class. This will become more apparent in the future when we release even more roles with different slot layouts. We also want to make sure that new players have a fighting chance against more skill point rich players who can enjoy the benefit of compounding premium module bonuses in the same fitting. We'll be keeping a close eye on how this nets out in vehicle combat, and ensure that we still afford you the ability to create interesting and unique fits to compliment your combat experience. Best regards, - CCP Blam! Seriously, can we get the Engineering skill buffed back up so vehicles can properly defend themselves until the rework? Consider it common courtesy or something since dedicated pilots have been completely shafted for to long. I'm not even a pilot anymore and I feel bad for them.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 2791	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:17:00 - [2] - Quote Cosgar wrote: #40 Posted: 2013.05.08 09:42 \| CCP Blam! wrote: Hi all. I've been reading through and we appreciate your feedback. You're right about the vehicle engineering skill. For the other posters, I'm assuming you mean the vehicle core upgrades skill? The reason for lowering the overall bonus was to allow us to create a more varied difference in between our different vehicle roles within the same class. This will become more apparent in the future when we release even more roles with different slot layouts. We also want to make sure that new players have a fighting chance against more skill point rich players who can enjoy the benefit of compounding premium module bonuses in the same fitting. We'll be keeping a close eye on how this nets out in vehicle combat, and ensure that we still afford you the ability to create interesting and unique fits to compliment your combat experience. Best regards, - CCP Blam! Seriously, can we get the Engineering skill buffed back up so vehicles can properly defend themselves until the rework? Consider it common courtesy or something since dedicated pilots have been completely shafted for to long. I'm not even a pilot anymore and I feel bad for them. I would have put SP into getting back into Caldari HAVs if it wasn't for pulling a Starter AV fit and watching a Gunnlogi go down to myself and only 2 others.
Cosgar ParagonX 3679	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:37:00 - [3] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I would have put SP into getting back into Caldari HAVs if it wasn't for pulling a Starter AV fit and watching a Gunnlogi go down to myself and only 2 others. I've been killing Gunlogis with flaylock pistols and Madrugers with mass drivers. It's pretty bad when you don't even need AV grenades.
The WindowLicker Backstabbers N Cheaters Union 52	Posted - 2013.08.01 12:52:00 - [4] - Quote Blam was fired. Wonder why
Cosgar ParagonX 3689	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:08:00 - [5] - Quote The WindowLicker wrote: Blam was fired. Wonder why C'mon man, I'm not trying to get this topic locked. Besides' design choice or not, CCP employee's personal lives need to stay personal.
Lorhak Gannarsein DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:12:00 - [6] - Quote Oh my God if they gave me back my PG I would have ALL the EHP. As opposed to none. Or at least I'd only have one slot taxed with PG boosters.
Jason Pearson Seraphim Auxiliaries 2320	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:18:00 - [7] - Quote If they would do this, I'd start piecing together my shattered hopes and dreams for DUST.
Halador Osiris Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 527	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:22:00 - [8] - Quote Honestly, unless they gave Pythons enough PG to mount heavy extenders, it won't do any good. I can put 3 extenders, a booster, and 2 PDU's on it and it still won't be enough health. No, that's not how I fit it, because having extra resists makes my effective boost higher, but that's how to get the most shield overall.
Cosgar ParagonX 3689	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:24:00 - [9] - Quote Halador Osiris wrote: Honestly, unless they gave Pythons enough PG to mount heavy extenders, it won't do any good. I can put 3 extenders, a booster, and 2 PDU's on it and it still won't be enough health. No, that's not how I fit it, because having extra resists makes my effective boost higher, but that's how to get the most shield overall. Unfortunately, dropships are light vehicles so they can't put on heavy modules anyway. Shield tanking itself for vehicles could use some work anyway like options to passive tank like infantry or burst tank like Minmatar ships in EVE.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 416	Posted - 2013.08.01 13:59:00 - [10] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: Honestly, unless they gave Pythons enough PG to mount heavy extenders, it won't do any good. I can put 3 extenders, a booster, and 2 PDU's on it and it still won't be enough health. No, that's not how I fit it, because having extra resists makes my effective boost higher, but that's how to get the most shield overall. Unfortunately, dropships are light vehicles so they can't put on heavy modules anyway. Shield tanking itself for vehicles could use some work anyway like options to passive tank like infantry or burst tank like Minmatar ships in EVE. Actually, if you look at their icons on the map, they are medium vehicles. Light vehicles should be limited to light modules only. A medium vehicle should be able to have a combination of light and heavy modules. Or at least make medium sized modules damnit!

Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 2586	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:03:00 - [11] - Quote Or just CUT THE COST OF DROPSHIPS AND HAVS
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 416	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:06:00 - [12] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Or just CUT THE COST OF DROPSHIPS AND HAVS And turret costs while you're at it
Cosgar ParagonX 3696	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:08:00 - [13] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Or just CUT THE COST OF DROPSHIPS AND HAVS That's just making it worse. I'd rather keep them expensive, but worth the price tag of throwing your ISK on the field. Just making vehicles cheaper and more expendable only adds to the problem. Imagine if AVers didn't even care enough to kill tanks because they were so cheap.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 2587	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:18:00 - [14] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Or just CUT THE COST OF DROPSHIPS AND HAVS That's just making it worse. I'd rather keep them expensive, but worth the price tag of throwing your ISK on the field. Just making vehicles cheaper and more expendable only adds to the problem. Imagine if AVers didn't even care enough to kill tanks because they were so cheap. The price tag is too high to make them worth the price tag. I would rather have weak-ish HAVs everywhere than 1 HAV that can't be destroyed- I was there for the massive experimental HAV buff. It shouldn't be done again.
Cosgar ParagonX 3697	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:23:00 - [15] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Cosgar wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Or just CUT THE COST OF DROPSHIPS AND HAVS That's just making it worse. I'd rather keep them expensive, but worth the price tag of throwing your ISK on the field. Just making vehicles cheaper and more expendable only adds to the problem. Imagine if AVers didn't even care enough to kill tanks because they were so cheap. The price tag is too high to make them worth the price tag. I would rather have weak-ish HAVs everywhere than 1 HAV that can't be destroyed- I was there for the massive experimental HAV buff. It shouldn't be done again. But this isn't a buff, it's giving something back that was taken away from a stupid reason. Seriously, the reasoning behind this nerf was worse than why the Mass Driver got nerfed in 1.0- and the Mass Driver at least got some of its stats back. They've continued to take away from tanks. But if you want a cheaper tank that's still going to have less field longevity than a yellow jeep, w/e man.
Gorra Snell BetaMax. 66	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:32:00 - [16] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: The price tag is too high to make them worth the price tag. I would rather have weak-ish HAVs everywhere than 1 HAV that can't be destroyed- I was there for the massive experimental HAV buff. It shouldn't be done again. This. More vehicles means more for AV to do...rather than HAVs showing up on rare occasions, and infantry switching to AV temporarily, we might have a better mix of roles on the battlefield all the time.
gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2901	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:44:00 - [17] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Cosgar wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: Honestly, unless they gave Pythons enough PG to mount heavy extenders, it won't do any good. I can put 3 extenders, a booster, and 2 PDU's on it and it still won't be enough health. No, that's not how I fit it, because having extra resists makes my effective boost higher, but that's how to get the most shield overall. Unfortunately, dropships are light vehicles so they can't put on heavy modules anyway. Shield tanking itself for vehicles could use some work anyway like options to passive tank like infantry or burst tank like Minmatar ships in EVE. Actually, if you look at their icons on the map, they are medium vehicles. Light vehicles should be limited to light modules only. A medium vehicle should be able to have a combination of light and heavy modules. Or at least make medium sized modules damnit! Yeah it's strange how there's no medium modules, they could be rather useful. And while I think vehicle hulls (with the exception of the ADS and the LDS, way overpriced for what they do right now) are balanced correctly, the turret costs are exorbitant, a proto small turret costs more than 2 standard dropship hulls.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 418	Posted - 2013.08.01 14:57:00 - [18] - Quote gbghg wrote: Harpyja wrote: Cosgar wrote: Halador Osiris wrote: Honestly, unless they gave Pythons enough PG to mount heavy extenders, it won't do any good. I can put 3 extenders, a booster, and 2 PDU's on it and it still won't be enough health. No, that's not how I fit it, because having extra resists makes my effective boost higher, but that's how to get the most shield overall. Unfortunately, dropships are light vehicles so they can't put on heavy modules anyway. Shield tanking itself for vehicles could use some work anyway like options to passive tank like infantry or burst tank like Minmatar ships in EVE. Actually, if you look at their icons on the map, they are medium vehicles. Light vehicles should be limited to light modules only. A medium vehicle should be able to have a combination of light and heavy modules. Or at least make medium sized modules damnit! Yeah it's strange how there's no medium modules, they could be rather useful. And while I think vehicle hulls (with the exception of the ADS and the LDS, way overpriced for what they do right now) are balanced correctly, the turret costs are exorbitant, a proto small turret costs more than 2 standard dropship hulls. And a large proto turret costs almost as much as five standard HAV hulls. They should halve all turret costs so that they are back to chromosome levels. When I lose tanks, it's mostly the proto turret that cuts into my wallet.
Cosgar ParagonX 3706	Posted - 2013.08.01 15:01:00 - [19] - Quote gbghg wrote: Yeah it's strange how there's no medium modules, they could be rather useful. And while I think vehicle hulls (with the exception of the ADS and the LDS, way overpriced for what they do right now) are balanced correctly, the turret costs are exorbitant, a proto small turret costs more than 2 standard dropship hulls. Just speculation, but I think this is how they're going to go about re-balancing vehicles in the future. Capacitors, hulls, medium slots and pilot suits that add different bonuses to all the above so that each vehicle and tanking style will be more diverse like dropsuits could be if everyone god off of buffer tanking so much.
N I G Ametat Security Amarr Empire 1	Posted - 2013.08.01 15:23:00 - [20] - Quote yes

Cosgar ParagonX 3763	Posted - 2013.08.01 21:37:00 - [21] - Quote Bump
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 6861	Posted - 2013.08.01 21:38:00 - [22] - Quote CPM is pushing something for the dropships in health buff to go out. As for skill changes not going to happen before the vehicle pass because its an integral part of the entire story and its likely code related.
Cosgar ParagonX 3763	Posted - 2013.08.01 21:41:00 - [23] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM is pushing something for the dropships in health buff to go out. As for skill changes not going to happen before the vehicle pass because its an integral part of the entire story and its likely code related. Serious question- do you think we'd be having the issues we're having now with vehicle balance if vehicle PG wasn't (ninja) nerfed in Uprising?
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 2809	Posted - 2013.08.01 21:41:00 - [24] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: I would have put SP into getting back into Caldari HAVs if it wasn't for pulling a Starter AV fit and watching a Gunnlogi go down to myself and only 2 others. I've been killing Gunlogis with flaylock pistols and Madrugers with mass drivers. It's pretty bad when you don't even need AV grenades. Yeah, tell me about it. Killing vehicles in this build just makes me feel dirty.
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1700	Posted - 2013.08.01 21:43:00 - [25] - Quote It still seems like a silly change to me. It's a pretty hardcore nerf as things go. I'm all for bringing PG-passive back.
Cosgar ParagonX 4322	Posted - 2013.08.19 07:47:00 - [26] - Quote Bumping because 1.5 is too far off.
Rusty Shallows Black Jackals 271	Posted - 2013.08.19 08:15:00 - [27] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: Oh my God if they gave me back my PG I would have ALL the EHP. As opposed to none. Or at least I'd only have one slot taxed with PG boosters. On target, fire for effect. There were some abusive fits and one thing the PG skill nerf did was tap down on them. It truly sucks that the majority of HAVs have to either be UP or OP. The forum community solutions haven't helped either with "just have the other side get squads of proto-AV together" or "[insert av weapon name] has to be nerfed in X, Y, Z, manner." Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Or just CUT THE COST OF DROPSHIPS AND HAVS No joke. I'm barely breaking even or going negative with my proto-fg and free heavy suit in competitive fights. Lord only knows how the majority of vehicle pilots get by.
Purona The Vanguardians 35	Posted - 2013.08.19 10:45:00 - [28] - Quote Vehicle power grid is fine. The only difference between now and before is that you have to put points into power modules and powergrid reduction skills
Eldest Dragon D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass 76	Posted - 2013.08.19 11:11:00 - [29] - Quote I'm so sick of people not fighting and death taxing constantly I cant hardly stand it, please ccp do something soon, make these guys get out and fight. =)
Beld Errmon Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 809	Posted - 2013.08.19 11:15:00 - [30] - Quote The WindowLicker wrote: Blam was fired. Wonder why heh I got banned for 2 weeks for suggesting that should happen.

Leovarian L Lavitz Better Academy. 536	Posted - 2013.08.19 11:22:00 - [31] - Quote Eldest Dragon wrote: I'm so sick of people not fighting and death taxing constantly I cant hardly stand it, please ccp do something soon, make these guys get out and fight. =) Normally when I death taxi I go 6/0. I saw this post and decided to make it happen, and went 46/1. GG.
Beld Errmon Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 809	Posted - 2013.08.19 11:25:00 - [32] - Quote seriously if your sick to death of LAVs, drive a tank, friendly Lavs seem to home in on your like a set of swarms and die in a fire, unfriendly ones you just shoot the drivers out with your blaster.
Lorhak Gannarsein DUST University Ivy League 169	Posted - 2013.08.19 11:40:00 - [33] - Quote Purona wrote: Vehicle power grid is fine. The only difference between now and before is that you have to put points into power modules and powergrid reduction skills PG is fine, huh? I need two PG Expansion units to fit a proto gun and decent tank on my Maddy. No, the armour PG skill doesn't help - unless it cut the reqs by like 400.
Lorhak Gannarsein DUST University Ivy League 171	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:02:00 - [34] - Quote BUMP FOR GREAT JUSTICE
Ninjanomyx Imperfects Negative-Feedback 246	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:16:00 - [35] - Quote Purona wrote: Vehicle power grid is fine. The only difference between now and before is that you have to put points into power modules and powergrid reduction skills Ummmmm..........wrong??? Sorry.....but as a currently Max Skill Tanker I assure you that there is a significant difference between Now & Then.....
Zeylon Rho Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1944	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:21:00 - [36] - Quote Ninjanomyx wrote: Purona wrote: Vehicle power grid is fine. The only difference between now and before is that you have to put points into power modules and powergrid reduction skills Ummmmm..........wrong??? Sorry.....but as a currently Max Skill Tanker I assure you that there is a significant difference between Now & Then..... Even back then, part of the reason the two Aurum tanks seemed so Awesome was the fitting (which was later nerfed, but yeah).
Beld Errmon Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 812	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:24:00 - [37] - Quote its funny that blam thought the pg thing would create more interesting and varied fits while giving new players a chance, in tanking new players will never stand a chance because its all about who has the most powerful gun, reps and resists, and or AV support, regardless of the change made there will only ever be 1 or 2 fits that are good and the rest are trash and will lose, exactly how eve works as well.
Beld Errmon Paladin Survey Force Amarr Empire 812	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:27:00 - [38] - Quote Zeylon Rho wrote: Ninjanomyx wrote: Purona wrote: Vehicle power grid is fine. The only difference between now and before is that you have to put points into power modules and powergrid reduction skills Ummmmm..........wrong??? Sorry.....but as a currently Max Skill Tanker I assure you that there is a significant difference between Now & Then..... Even back then, part of the reason the two Aurum tanks seemed so Awesome was the fitting (which was later nerfed, but yeah). Your not seriously talking about the creodron and kaal whatever tanks are you? they were Fking trash then and still are, no tanker worth his salt was remotely worried about those giant nubmobiles.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 933	Posted - 2013.08.20 11:43:00 - [39] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: CPM is pushing something for the dropships in health buff to go out. As for skill changes not going to happen before the vehicle pass because its an integral part of the entire story and its likely code related. BS Dropsuits get 5% per level for enginnering skill yet because its a vehicle it doesnt matter Another pointless infantry CPM quote in a another vehicle thread
Bad Heal ROGUE SPADES EoN. 68	Posted - 2013.08.20 12:15:00 - [40] - Quote Enjoy what you have now because 1.5....... It could be bad, really bad

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 936	Posted - 2013.08.20 12:23:00 - [41] - Quote Bad Heal wrote: Enjoy what you have now because 1.5....... It could be bad, really bad 5 builds 5 sets of nerfs Everytime adapted to whats happened I would like to say it cant get much worse but so far CCP has proved me wrong
martinofski Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 294	Posted - 2013.08.20 13:23:00 - [42] - Quote Medium modules to dropships wont help that much unless the make the dropship have more CPU and PG, I can barely put on the 4 best (lvl3) light shield extender on without PG upgrade mudules. Are dropship that bad regarding eHP? The only time I get killed with it is against Railgun tanks or proto assault forge gun I haven't locate on the map. Many thing could be dealt with on them to help out before a HP buff seriously. Invisible RDV collision Forge gun ease to kill dropships Invisible Swarms Gunners turret glitch when aiming down Aiming through the ADS = bad design Door opening and closing automatically Some maps have invisible roof in specific locations Turret range vs dmg output. Tanks do need their PG bonus to the engineering skill, as well as Dropships or proto vehicles. When I compare those to a dropsuit it is quite apparent. And lvl 3 vehicles should have reduced cost. On a basic heavy dropsuit (lvl1), I can fit 2 complex repper(lvl5), a proto hmg (lvl5), and 1 complex dmg mod (lvl5) and the rest with basic stuff (grenade and sidearm). If I equip lvl 3 everything on my lvl3 suit, I would be left with plenty of CPU and PG left. When I equip my lvl3 ADS, I can barely put on lvl3 stuff on there but I do have proto turrets on there, which take a litle more than lvl3 ones. My core skills aren't that bad, lvl4 on most. The issue I see with the ADS is really the third turret without the additionnal CPU/PG needed compare to the normal DS.


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