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Nalhe Saldana
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
85
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
One of the biggest issues with armor tanking for new players is that the low end armor repairers are really damn weak, they should rebalance them to help more realize how good armor can be.
Currently it looks like this Militia/Basic - 2/sec Enhanced - 4/sec Complex - 6/sec
But it should look like this: Militia/Basic - 4/sec Enhanced - 5/sec Complex - 6/sec
It will still be worth using the higher end ones for skilled players while we help people who gets stomped due to low SP. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
1047
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Posted - 2013.07.31 22:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
No |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3631
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
I'd rather see a "hardener" module that increases total armor by a percentage without a movement penalty. This way armor can get a much bigger buffer while shield tanking suits wouldn't be able to use yet another armor module better. |
hooc order
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
790
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Kevlar and Spider silk mesh weigh far less then lithium/ion batteries.
I think they should make shields weigh more (slow you down) and armor lighter. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3631
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
hooc order wrote:Kevlar and Spider silk mesh weigh far less then lithium/ion batteries.
I think they should make shields weigh more (slow you down) and armor lighter. Just a thought but what if passive shield regen was nerfed to 10HP/s or no regen at all while the recharger gave an integer based regen while the energizer got a buff? Not too many shield tankers use these modules. It'd give them a reason to do so. |
SHANN da MAN
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
53
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
With Shield regen at a base 20HP/sec and no downside like the speed reduction armor has, they really should do something to make armor competitive. Raising the Armor Repairer from 2/3/5 HP/sec to 3/5/10 HP/sec is not unreasonable. That's still Way below Shield Regen, and Armor still has the downside of speed reduction, so increasing the repair rate is justified. |
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
638
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
I thought Enhanced and complex do 3 and 5? |
Doc Noah
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
395
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:With Shield regen at a base 20HP/sec and no downside like the speed reduction armor has, they really should do something to make armor competitive. Raising the Armor Repairer from 2/3/5 HP/sec to 3/5/10 HP/sec is not unreasonable. That's still Way below Shield Regen, and Armor still has the downside of speed reduction, so increasing the repair rate is justified.
Regen is shield's niche, armor needs more tankability. 1 1/2 bullets more per complex vs complex shields extenders just isnt enough. All they need to do is lower the movement penalty, the fact we give up speed for more armor slots is fair enough, and to increase armor extenders significantly. A base suit armor regen for armor type suits, although small, would help a bit as well.
They also need to reformat how modules are slotted, currently they stuffed everything into low slot which isnt really fair for low slot dropsuits. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3671
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:23:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:I thought Enhanced and complex do 3 and 5? They do. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3671
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
A buff is in the works guys.
Anyway: Most of your ideas strive to make armor another type of shields. I don't want that, I want both to be unique, with their own trade offs and advantages. |
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Robocop Junior
The Surrogates Of War
96
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
wtf would actually go past basic if they did 4 and complex only did 6 |
SHANN da MAN
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
53
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:A buff is in the works guys.
Anyway: Most of your ideas strive to make armor another type of shields. I don't want that, I want both to be unique, with their own trade offs and advantages.
Along that line of thought, CCP needs to add a downside to Shields. Perhaps an increased detection on the minimap due to the increased power output of shield modules. (stacking with more modules = more detection) |
Delta 749
Kestrel Reconnaissance
1513
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:29:00 -
[13] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:With Shield regen at a base 20HP/sec (some suits more, some suits less) and no downside like the speed reduction armor has, CCP really should do something to make armor competitive. Raising the Armor Repairer from 2/3/5 HP/sec to 3/5/10 HP/sec is not unreasonable. That's still Way below Shield Regen, and it takes a Repairer module in addition to the Armor itself, and Armor has the downside of speed reduction, so increasing the repair rate is justified.
Yes, the delay is totally not a downside and the most popular weapons having a bonus to shield damage is not a downside either
But seriously only an idiot picks one or the other, hybrid tanking ftw |
Nalhe Saldana
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
86
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
Robocop Junior wrote:wtf would actually go past basic if they did 4 and complex only did 6
1. The skill bonus on top of that makes them even more effective
2. When stacking repairers it will make a big diff in the end |
Cat Merc
BetaMax.
3672
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:Cat Merc wrote:A buff is in the works guys.
Anyway: Most of your ideas strive to make armor another type of shields. I don't want that, I want both to be unique, with their own trade offs and advantages. Along that line of thought, CCP needs to add a downside to Shields. Perhaps an increased detection on the minimap due to the increased power output of shield modules. (stacking with more modules = more detection) That downside can't really compare to being slow. Sure, you know where they are, but you can't hit them because they are too fast. I suggest increasing their hitbox. So while armor makes you slower and easier to hit, shields make you easier to hit but without slowing you down.
This will also give people a reason to stop stacking HP modules. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
127
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:That downside can't really compare to being slow.
|
Cosgar
ParagonX
3632
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:39:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:SHANN da MAN wrote:Cat Merc wrote:A buff is in the works guys.
Anyway: Most of your ideas strive to make armor another type of shields. I don't want that, I want both to be unique, with their own trade offs and advantages. Along that line of thought, CCP needs to add a downside to Shields. Perhaps an increased detection on the minimap due to the increased power output of shield modules. (stacking with more modules = more detection) That downside can't really compare to being slow. Sure, you know where they are, but you can't hit them because they are too fast. I suggest increasing their hitbox. So while armor makes you slower and easier to hit, shields make you easier to hit but without slowing you down. This will also give people a reason to stop stacking HP modules. What if your stamina drains while shields recharge? Armor wouldn't be hurt too bad because of faster regen but shields would be in trouble trying to recharge that huge buffer. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
463
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
armor repairers are super weak currently.
Anyone with half a brain can tell you 2/3/5 or 3/5/10 is a stupid progression. Ditto for 22/33/66 |
CAELAN Andoril
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Since we're all throwing around opinions, I'll throw mine in:
CCP should give resist modules to suits. A small percentage or something per module, but suits ought to be able to resist some damage. As for balance, I was thinking armour has some built-in damage resist, but shields don't. In exchange, shields regenerate and armour naturally doesn't [unless you're Minmatar, apparently].
Basically, make armour harder to get through than shields. That'll make it more balanced, as shields continually regenerate while you need modules to repair armour, and make it that armour naturally takes less damage while shields need modules for the same thing.
Then give Sentinel suits an added damage resist and Heavies will actually be tanks again! |
SHANN da MAN
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
53
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:SHANN da MAN wrote:With Shield regen at a base 20HP/sec (some suits more, some suits less) and no downside like the speed reduction armor has, CCP really should do something to make armor competitive. Raising the Armor Repairer from 2/3/5 HP/sec to 3/5/10 HP/sec is not unreasonable. That's still Way below Shield Regen, and it takes a Repairer module in addition to the Armor itself, and Armor has the downside of speed reduction, so increasing the repair rate is justified. Yes, the delay is totally not a downside and the most popular weapons having a bonus to shield damage is not a downside either But seriously only an idiot picks one or the other, hybrid tanking ftw
You're calling the Shield Regen delay a downside? Yes, I suppose it is ... But for Armor to even get ANY kind of regen you have to Skill into another module spending SP, Equip another module using CPU and PG and another slot on your suit, and STILL the best Repair you can get is 5HP/sec (per module) with Proto Level Repairer. It could Definitely use an increase |
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Nalhe Saldana
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
87
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Posted - 2013.07.31 23:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
CAELAN Andoril wrote:Since we're all throwing around opinions, I'll throw mine in:
CCP should give resist modules to suits. A small percentage or something per module, but suits ought to be able to resist some damage. As for balance, I was thinking armour has some built-in damage resist, but shields don't. In exchange, shields regenerate and armour naturally doesn't [unless you're Minmatar, apparently].
Basically, make armour harder to get through than shields. That'll make it more balanced, as shields continually regenerate while you need modules to repair armour, and make it that armour naturally takes less damage while shields need modules for the same thing.
Then give Sentinel suits an added damage resist and Heavies will actually be tanks again!
The idea is that armor tanks have more HP, just compare shield extenders to plates. |
Vin Vicious
Capital Acquisitions LLC
197
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Posted - 2013.08.01 00:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
People use armor repairers? Lolol |
CAELAN Andoril
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
46
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Posted - 2013.08.01 00:06:00 -
[23] - Quote
Nalhe Saldana wrote:CAELAN Andoril wrote:Since we're all throwing around opinions, I'll throw mine in:
CCP should give resist modules to suits. A small percentage or something per module, but suits ought to be able to resist some damage. As for balance, I was thinking armour has some built-in damage resist, but shields don't. In exchange, shields regenerate and armour naturally doesn't [unless you're Minmatar, apparently].
Basically, make armour harder to get through than shields. That'll make it more balanced, as shields continually regenerate while you need modules to repair armour, and make it that armour naturally takes less damage while shields need modules for the same thing.
Then give Sentinel suits an added damage resist and Heavies will actually be tanks again! The idea is that armor tanks have more HP, just compare shield extenders to plates.
That extra HP is worth jackshit when you're moving slower because of it, which is part of the reason shields are so preferable. But if armour was naturally resistant to damage, suddenly it'd be worth moving slower for more health.
I don't think added armour plates should add to the resistance, though, unless it was a variant that offered less HP for bonus resistance.
But yeah, have all suits come with an innate albeit weak damage resistance on the armour, like 1% or something. Not much, but present. Have a skill that you level up make it able to reach 5%. Then have modules for both armour and shields that increase resistances.
But that's just my personal opinion. |
SponkSponkSponk
The Southern Legion
128
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Posted - 2013.08.01 00:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
It's fairly easy to adjust based on damage profiles, IMO.
For instance, currently bullets do -10% to shields and +10% to armor. Adjusting that to -10%/+5% or whatever implicitly adjusts the damage resistance of armor vs that damage type. |
Jimthefighter
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2013.08.01 00:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:Delta 749 wrote:SHANN da MAN wrote:With Shield regen at a base 20HP/sec (some suits more, some suits less) and no downside like the speed reduction armor has, CCP really should do something to make armor competitive. Raising the Armor Repairer from 2/3/5 HP/sec to 3/5/10 HP/sec is not unreasonable. That's still Way below Shield Regen, and it takes a Repairer module in addition to the Armor itself, and Armor has the downside of speed reduction, so increasing the repair rate is justified. Yes, the delay is totally not a downside and the most popular weapons having a bonus to shield damage is not a downside either But seriously only an idiot picks one or the other, hybrid tanking ftw You're calling the Shield Regen delay a downside? Yes, I suppose it is ... But for Armor to even get ANY kind of regen you have to Skill into another module spending SP, Equip another module using CPU and PG and another slot on your suit, and STILL the best Repair you can get is 5HP/sec (per module) with Proto Level Repairer. It could Definitely use an increase
Anyways, isn't shield regen still borked? Last I heard/saw, the shield regen timer starts after the first bullet hits you, which wasn't intended, instead of the last, which was intended (I think). So regardless of any incidental damage a shielded target takes in between the first bullet and 6 or so seconds (minus modules), regen starts after those 6 seconds unless knocked down to zero shields. |
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