DUST Search - Equipment proficiency skills: The Logi skill Tree

Cosgar wrote:

Den-tredje Baron wrote:

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

Clarifications and explanations:

Den-tredje Baron wrote:

Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU.

As of this moment weapons have 2 skills that help reduce the cost of fitting them. The first their initial skill Light weaponry, heavy weaponry etc, and secod their fitting optimization skill. Since there exist no such skill for equipment, my proposal was to make a skill that fills these two optimizations but at a 1% less than the individual skill for a total of a 10% reduction to total fitting.

Ahh yes baah i totally forgot about the fact that light weaponry skill gives you a what 3% reduction CPU or something like that.
I've actually been fighting for all skills to have some kind of effect tied to them like i think all skills have in eve. Meaning that like the basic fram skill won't just unlock next tier of suits but it'll also grant something like 1% more armor to the suit per level or something like that Smile

We should definitely have lower CPU tied to the respective equipment skills !!!

What if all logis had an inherent CPU/PG reduction bonus for equipment, but it wasn't as effective as the Gallente? Keep all the suit bonuses we have now but just a 3rd static bonus just for using the suit, like -10% CPU/PG reduction.

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XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2013.07.30 08:55:00 - [1] - Quote Hello, As this is a gun game I do understand that there is a need to include a wide variety of skills to upgrade and improve weapon performance but, what if I don't use my weapons. In more games than not I find myself going 1/5 or 3/12 but still getting first place on the board because My weapons are my equipments. I use my logi skills to the fullest and keep my team supplied, alive and healthy for the good fight. Doing this is what fills me and I would love proficiency skills for my weapons which are my equipment. Now I do understand that CCP does want to include some sort of different bonuses to the logi suits that will directly affect the equipment we place on the battlefield but what if there was more. To be the best logi would be to specialize into our field without restriction and to add additional functionality to our equipment by actually being skilled into them instead of just having a suit bonus. The following few point are what the skills all equipment should have to improve upon our role and not just coast through it: REPAIR TOOL The repair tool is seen as the backbone of any logi. This is our gun and we shoot our teammates with TLC; tender loving care for those who don't know that acronym. This weapon should have at the very least 3 extra skills to help us use the weapon to the fullest. The following are the skills that I think should be added to the skill tree to further specialize on this module: Repair tool proficiency: prerequisite: repair tool lvl 5/ effect 3% to repair rate per level Beam focusing: prerequisite: repair tool level 1/ effect: 5% to effective repair tool range per level repair tool fitting optimization: prerequisite: repair tool prificiency level 4 / 2% reduction to powergrid and CPU requirements of repair tools per level. NANOHIVES AND NANITE INJECTORS Easily the second most important equipment that we carry but the one that is mostly used by all; nanohives permit us to not only resupply our teammates but repair them as well when we are not available to do so. If one of our teammates where to die we would infuse them with nanite to revive them and rep them for a percentage of health. A fully skilled player in nanite injectors can revive a player for a total of 80% f their total health but with the proposed skills we would be able to revive our teammate for a total of 95% armor upon revival. Nanocircuitry proficiency: prerequisite: nanocircuitry lvl 5 / effect 3% per level to nanohive resuply and repair rate Nanite overloading: prerequisite: Nanocircuitry level 1/ effect: 3% additional armor repaired upon revival per level The proposed additional armor repaired VS effectivenss of nanite injectors is because at lower tier nanohives the percentage is minimal. With the propesed additional armor repped the skill would add at level 5 an additional 15% of armor no matter what injector you use. For the basic a 15% effectiveness bonus would only be a 4% additional armor repped upon revival totaling 34%, whereas by adding an additional 15% to the value makes it 45%. At prototype level it would be a 95% armor repped upon revival instead of 80% further increasing the logi's usefullnes as well as making the skill desirable. Nanite optimization:prerequisite: nanocircuitry prificiency level 4 / effect 2% reduction to powergrid and CPU requirements of nanohives and nanite injectors per level. DROP UPLINKS Drop uplinks are the "go to" solution when you can neither rep nor revive your teammates. They create a custom and strategic entry point to the battle; and getting the soldiers closer to the fight gives a "one up" vs the other team. Drop Uplink proficiency: prerequisite: drop uplinks lvl 5 / effect 5% reduction to spawn time per level drop uplink stabalization: prerequisite: drop uplink level 1/ effect: 2 extra spawns per level Drop uplink fitting optimization: prerequisite: drop uplinkprificiency level 4 / 2% reduction to powergrid and CPU requirements of drop uplinks per level. ACTIVE SCANNERS active scanners can be a very situationa tool. They can help scouts check for enemies before entering a room but also can help any player pinpoint the enemy so the leader can smite them with an orbital active scanner proficiency: prerequisite: active scanners lvl 5 / effect 10% reduction cooldown time per level active scanner rangefinding: prerequisite: active scanner level 1/ effect: 10% active scanner range per level active scanner fitting optimization: prerequisite: active scanner proficiency level 4 / 2% reduction to powergrid and CPU requirements of active scanners per level. REMOTE EXPLOSIVES Apat from being a logi we too have to have a strategic defence. We have to help out team defend points as well as our valuable equipment we droped down. To this end Proximity mines and remote explosives are used. remote explosive proficiency: prerequisite: remote explosives lvl 5 / 3% more damage per level remote explosive ammo capacity: prerequisite: remote explosives level 5/ effect: ability to carry one extra remote explosive per level. Remote explosive fitting optimization: prerequisite: remote explosive proficiency level 4 / 2% reduction to powergrid and CPU requirements of Remote explosives per level.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2013.07.30 08:56:00 - [2] - Quote reserved
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 191	Posted - 2013.07.30 08:57:00 - [3] - Quote reserved: just in case
darkiller240 INGLORIOUS-INQUISITION 113	Posted - 2013.07.30 09:14:00 - [4] - Quote Hell Yea..... +1
Den-tredje Baron ParagonX 178	Posted - 2013.07.30 10:48:00 - [5] - Quote Sounds like some really solid ideas right there. Though i would say does the remote explosive skills also count for proximity explosives ?? And the "focused beam" skill for upgrading range of repair tools should probably be more like 1-2 meters as with 3 meters you would be able be able to make a core repair tool rep out to 25 meters which is over 100 HP/s at 25 meters ..... but numbers they can always be fine tuned Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU. BUt otherwise nice ideas +1
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 198	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:09:00 - [6] - Quote Den-tredje Baron wrote: Sounds like some really solid ideas right there. Though i would say does the remote explosive skills also count for proximity explosives ?? And the "focused beam" skill for upgrading range of repair tools should probably be more like 1-2 meters as with 3 meters you would be able be able to make a core repair tool rep out to 25 meters which is over 100 HP/s at 25 meters ..... but numbers they can always be fine tuned Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU. BUt otherwise nice ideas +1 you are corect about the proximity explosive; those little beasties only do 750 damage so the bump in damage is most welcome. As for the optimization remeber that the weapons skills Light, heavy etc. reduce by 3 percent the cpu needed for the use of light weapons, no such skill exists for equipment. Therefore the selection to reduce by 1% the total value but unify both modifiers to better suits each equipment. As for the repair tool; 25 meters is not a lot with the new weapon ranges and still to get to that range you would have to get the skill t level 5 effectively specializing in that tool. Specialization for equipments should have more reward; remember you only get 25 WP per rep up to the point of exhaust from which time on you don't get any more points. As a logi I tried to add value to the skill as well as not try and make them OP. Remember CCP might put heavy skill tier for example 3x on some of these skills; so they have to be meaningfull but not op at lower levels but excellent and rewarding at higher ones. As a logi I tried to balance these skill based on what evidence we have available from the weapon tree. That being said the skills don't always translate and must be buffed to better suit our purposes. What a minimal number is on the weapons skill tree is near useless on the logi skill tree I propose CCP implement for us in some form or another. Remember that even in the weapons tree there are some skills that never get used because they are worthless to the weapon they are on. So in this case some things like the repair tool might sound like much but when you ave a guy shooting your teamate effectiely at 60 meters plus; the range does not sound like something wrong. I apreciat the positive and constructive feedback and hope that other will join in and help flesh out the ideas a bit further or just give it a happy bump now and
Cosgar ParagonX 3378	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:19:00 - [7] - Quote I'm liking this idea more than changing all the logi bonuses to be equipment specific. Last thing I want is for my hacking bonus to be tied to a repair tool I barely use.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 199	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:22:00 - [8] - Quote Cosgar wrote: I'm liking this idea more than changing all the logi bonuses to be equipment specific. Last thing I want is for my hacking bonus to be tied to a repair tool I barely use. That's exactly why I did this post. I'm in love with my gallente logi and would dislike it very much if they changed my reduction to cpu/pwrgrd to something useless like nanohive cluster ammount; which is simply bypassed by putting another down or carrying 2 so you don't run out. Thank you for the support
Den-tredje Baron ParagonX 179	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:37:00 - [9] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Clarifications and explanations: Den-tredje Baron wrote: Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU. As of this moment weapons have 2 skills that help reduce the cost of fitting them. The first their initial skill Light weaponry, heavy weaponry etc, and secod their fitting optimization skill. Since there exist no such skill for equipment, my proposal was to make a skill that fills these two optimizations but at a 1% less than the individual skill for a total of a 10% reduction to total fitting. Ahh yes baah i totally forgot about the fact that light weaponry skill gives you a what 3% reduction CPU or something like that. I've actually been fighting for all skills to have some kind of effect tied to them like i think all skills have in eve. Meaning that like the basic fram skill won't just unlock next tier of suits but it'll also grant something like 1% more armor to the suit per level or something like that We should definitely have lower CPU tied to the respective equipment skills !!!
Cosgar ParagonX 3379	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:41:00 - [10] - Quote Den-tredje Baron wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Clarifications and explanations: Den-tredje Baron wrote: Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU. As of this moment weapons have 2 skills that help reduce the cost of fitting them. The first their initial skill Light weaponry, heavy weaponry etc, and secod their fitting optimization skill. Since there exist no such skill for equipment, my proposal was to make a skill that fills these two optimizations but at a 1% less than the individual skill for a total of a 10% reduction to total fitting. Ahh yes baah i totally forgot about the fact that light weaponry skill gives you a what 3% reduction CPU or something like that. I've actually been fighting for all skills to have some kind of effect tied to them like i think all skills have in eve. Meaning that like the basic fram skill won't just unlock next tier of suits but it'll also grant something like 1% more armor to the suit per level or something like that We should definitely have lower CPU tied to the respective equipment skills !!! What if all logis had an inherent CPU/PG reduction bonus for equipment, but it wasn't as effective as the Gallente? Keep all the suit bonuses we have now but just a 3rd static bonus just for using the suit, like -10% CPU/PG reduction.

XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 200	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:42:00 - [11] - Quote Den-tredje Baron wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Clarifications and explanations: Den-tredje Baron wrote: Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU. As of this moment weapons have 2 skills that help reduce the cost of fitting them. The first their initial skill Light weaponry, heavy weaponry etc, and secod their fitting optimization skill. Since there exist no such skill for equipment, my proposal was to make a skill that fills these two optimizations but at a 1% less than the individual skill for a total of a 10% reduction to total fitting. Ahh yes baah i totally forgot about the fact that light weaponry skill gives you a what 3% reduction CPU or something like that. I've actually been fighting for all skills to have some kind of effect tied to them like i think all skills have in eve. Meaning that like the basic fram skill won't just unlock next tier of suits but it'll also grant something like 1% more armor to the suit per level or something like that We should definitely have lower CPU tied to the respective equipment skills !!! I completely agree. I wold never have thought CCP would have made "DEAD SKILLS" that only unlock things. In eve evey skill is tide in with some sort of reward. I would not mind something trivial; lik say dropsuit command skill give 1 % to something. It might be trivial and maybe meaningless but cent by cent you get a dollar.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 200	Posted - 2013.07.30 11:49:00 - [12] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Den-tredje Baron wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Clarifications and explanations: Den-tredje Baron wrote: Also fitting optimization skill as far as i remember the optimization skill for all the weapons only give lowers the amount of PG and not CPU. As of this moment weapons have 2 skills that help reduce the cost of fitting them. The first their initial skill Light weaponry, heavy weaponry etc, and secod their fitting optimization skill. Since there exist no such skill for equipment, my proposal was to make a skill that fills these two optimizations but at a 1% less than the individual skill for a total of a 10% reduction to total fitting. Ahh yes baah i totally forgot about the fact that light weaponry skill gives you a what 3% reduction CPU or something like that. I've actually been fighting for all skills to have some kind of effect tied to them like i think all skills have in eve. Meaning that like the basic fram skill won't just unlock next tier of suits but it'll also grant something like 1% more armor to the suit per level or something like that We should definitely have lower CPU tied to the respective equipment skills !!! What if all logis had an inherent CPU/PG reduction bonus for equipment, but it wasn't as effective as the Gallente? Keep all the suit bonuses we have now but just a 3rd static bonus just for using the suit, like -10% CPU/PG reduction. I do like that idea. It would help with the fitting and all. But if all the suits got a bonus to equipment then gallente would get the aditional buff to the fitting or else the other suits would have an extra bonus and gallente would just have one. So for example if suits all got a reduction to 10% equipment powergrid and cpu usage reduction; then by definition the gallente suit would have it's 5% reduction per level + the ten percent for a total of 35% reduction to equipment fittings cost. That Is what I think should happen if all suits got that bonus and I think it would be fair sin other suits would have different bonuses but gallente would keep it's rol as best for fitting equipment. I for one would not mind that at all. When I get proto reps I will have to downgrade my weapon from advance to standard to be able to fit all the equipment on my proto gallente.
ALPHA DECRIPTER M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 177	Posted - 2013.07.30 12:51:00 - [13] - Quote I'm a scout and like most scouts I think we need more cpu/pg... then again this idea would easily make me happy too I would love to spec into the drop uplink so that I could conserve more space. I plan to branch into logistics around December so this would be nice to have when I do go down that road. P.S: @ all you true bros THANK YOU GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!! U R AWSOME! `Sigh. Just another fun game of DUST .
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 208	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:07:00 - [14] - Quote Bumped for CCP to see
YOU MUST LIVE DepartmentOfCorruption 0	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:41:00 - [15] - Quote LOL I just raged like an idiot, I felt like a noob for not leveling up my repair tools, nano hives and injectors xD I quickly went to the skills section to realize they didnt fkin exist! xD Oh god that was scary!! Great idea tho!
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 52	Posted - 2013.07.31 03:57:00 - [16] - Quote Good ideas I like them. What I would change in your proposal though would be the bonuses. Instead of static bonuses they should be proportional like the rest of the bonuses in the game. This means that all you equipment gets the same amount better rather than your militia equipment doubling in power were your proto is barely affected. For example, Instead of +2 armour repair rate you should have +5% armour repair rate.
RA Drahcir Psygod9 RISE of LEGION 47	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:19:00 - [17] - Quote I (a heavy) approve this message.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 521	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:21:00 - [18] - Quote The skill tree for equipment is great idea. It makes sense for it to be as deep as the weapon trees. Most of the bonus should be percentage instead of set values. The bonus ideas look good for most part otherwise. The +1 explosives carried seems a bit much, maybe +1 explosive active instead. This would give little benefit to non-logi using explosives, but let logi restock from a nanohive they carried to place more of them. That should be enough to avoid R.E. spam yet give clever logi players some tricks to use.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 53	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:28:00 - [19] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: The +1 explosives carried seems a bit much, maybe +1 explosive active instead. This would give little benefit to non-logi using explosives, but let logi restock from a nanohive they carried to place more of them. That should be enough to avoid R.E. spam yet give clever logi players some tricks to use. As a frequent user of RE and occasionally PE having more active is much more powerful in my opinion. And +1 per level is huge. Standard REs allow 3 active so that skill would more than double, almost triple, the number active. This suffers from the same issues sa the other set bonus. Why use proto (5 active + 5 = 10) when standard are so much easier to fit, cheaper and have 8 active? Would 5% per level explosion radius be better?
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 213	Posted - 2013.07.31 04:29:00 - [20] - Quote Ten-Sidhe wrote: The skill tree for equipment is great idea. It makes sense for it to be as deep as the weapon trees. Most of the bonus should be percentage instead of set values. The bonus ideas look good for most part otherwise. The +1 explosives carried seems a bit much, maybe +1 explosive active instead. This would give little benefit to non-logi using explosives, but let logi restock from a nanohive they carried to place more of them. That should be enough to avoid R.E. spam yet give clever logi players some tricks to use. The problem with percentages is that the bonuses are minimal. As we have it in the weapon tree there are skills that do absolutely noting for the weapon. CCP just added carpet bonuses to fill in the gaps. We can see ow that they are starting to implement "set bonuses" because percentages does not work for certain things; like say repair distance on repair tools which would give an extra 1 to 2 meters max; not enough to want to skill into it making it a dead skill.

Doshneil Antaro SVER True Blood 107	Posted - 2013.07.31 05:32:00 - [21] - Quote I already have a love hate for this idea. Love the concept of making equipment use more of a role (aka a real logi), but holy crappie what a sp sinkhole. Minded it would be useful sinkness, but my suit already requires a ton of extra SP than any other.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 213	Posted - 2013.07.31 06:28:00 - [22] - Quote Doshneil Antaro wrote: I already have a love hate for this idea. Love the concept of making equipment use more of a role (aka a real logi), but holy crappie what a sp sinkhole. Minded it would be useful sinkness, but my suit already requires a ton of extra SP than any other. Yes there is a huge sp sinkhole problem; but these skills are not by definition sinkholes. You would not need any of them to keep using your equipment in a manner you are using them now. If CCP does implement this I hope they do not change the base values That the equipment already have. This tree would only help those who want to become true logi's; those that have no interest in playing a monotonous shooting game.
Cyrius Li-Moody The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 504	Posted - 2013.07.31 06:48:00 - [23] - Quote Even in an assault suit these bonuses would be great for the equipment I use. +1 Ghaz good stuff.
Garth Mandra The Southern Legion 53	Posted - 2013.07.31 07:19:00 - [24] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: Ten-Sidhe wrote: The skill tree for equipment is great idea. It makes sense for it to be as deep as the weapon trees. Most of the bonus should be percentage instead of set values. The bonus ideas look good for most part otherwise. The +1 explosives carried seems a bit much, maybe +1 explosive active instead. This would give little benefit to non-logi using explosives, but let logi restock from a nanohive they carried to place more of them. That should be enough to avoid R.E. spam yet give clever logi players some tricks to use. The problem with percentages is that the bonuses are minimal. As we have it in the weapon tree there are skills that do absolutely noting for the weapon. CCP just added carpet bonuses to fill in the gaps. We can see ow that they are starting to implement "set bonuses" because percentages does not work for certain things; like say repair distance on repair tools which would give an extra 1 to 2 meters max; not enough to want to skill into it making it a dead skill. You are correct. If CCP are idiots bad things happen. They should have QA people looking at those bonuses and saying "This is stupid it does nothing." and making the devs fix it. In my opinion each and increase in skill level should make a difference. CCP just needs to make sure that appropriate values are selected for each bonus such that they affect every module to some effect and that the SP requirements are tailored to suit. Occasionally it may be necessary to have a set bonus but it should be avoided in my opinion since it can screw up the balance between the same equipment of different tiers.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 523	Posted - 2013.08.01 01:25:00 - [25] - Quote A scout or assault having +1 carried per level would get more of a buff then +1 active and the current number carried since they have little ability to restock and deploy to the new higher limit. A logi could carry nanohives to restock and use the higher limit easier. A percentage on this would be hard to set so it was not just on/off bonus at a certain skill level. Kind of similar to current problem with Swarm launcher ammo capacity, only 2 of the 5 lv do anything. The percentage bonus for most equipment should be set about were the static bonus the op suggeted would be equal. Then standard would be a little bit less and proto a little bit more then the static.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 218	Posted - 2013.08.01 05:45:00 - [26] - Quote I am glad people are liking this idea and are actually having a constructive conversation. I hope CCP likes it enough to put it or something like it in the game this year or the next. The faster they role out something like this, the faster the game starts getting more diverse and really good builds can start coming out of characters. Thank you guys.
Lt Royal Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 283	Posted - 2013.08.01 05:50:00 - [27] - Quote +1 Even some sort of bonus per level for the base skills would be nice. Like: Repair Tool: +2% bonus to repair distance per level.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 234	Posted - 2013.08.08 12:29:00 - [28] - Quote I really want a dev to comment his opinion on this.
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 238	Posted - 2013.08.08 16:42:00 - [29] - Quote No reply
Cosgar ParagonX 4141	Posted - 2013.08.13 02:33:00 - [30] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: No reply Don't give up. Not all logic gets ignored on here. (Just the majority)



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