We all know it's a rampant problem, and it's easy to blame it on one thing or another. But I think that the real reason why we see so many unbalanced instant battles is not any particular one, but a combination of many factors. After listing all the various issues at play, I am now actually more surprised whenever I see an actually balanced game.

The point of this thread is not to QQ, but what I would like to convey is that rather than requiring radical change and blood magic, just going through all of these issues and making a minor tweak to each could improve the situation immensely already.

We already know that CCP is working on match making, and solutions to AFKers as well as something related to redlining. Maybe these improvements will be extensive enough to cover most of the points I am going to mention, but if not, then maybe this still provides some food for thought.

So, without further ado, here's the list:

• Unbalanced number of squads. We all know how much squads benefit from teamplay and communication, so whenever it's one squad vs. no squad, or two squads vs. one squad, things start to become unbalanced.


• Squads unbalancing the number of experienced players. 16 random players will by average have a balanced distribution of experienced and new players. But a single squad of experienced or new players dramatically shifts the balance one way or another.


• Experience is exponentially rewarded. Not just do experienced players benefit from their experience, but also from higher SP and (usually) better gear. This makes the previous issue a lot more significant.


• Successful squads are rewarded with orbital strikes. Because pub stompers really need a WMD to help them out.


• A random team has a higher statistical chance to have a larger number of AFKers on the team, because people rarely squad up to go AFK... So essentially most of the time there is a squad imbalance, there is also an active player count imbalance.


• The ISK factor. How many times have we heard somebody moan about being pub stomped, only to be told to just wear some inexpensive gear to avoid losses? It's sound advise and frequently followed, but it also dramatically escalates any imbalance. The winning team is much more likely to field proto gear and expensive tanks, if risk of losses is reduced.


• No suitable alternative for expert players and squads / corporations to grind or practice team tactics, so they are forced to take it to the pubs where they are wreaking havoc...


• No incentive for winning, so it's smarter to stay low and reduce losses than to make a desperate attempt at an objective, which at least in some cases could have a positive ripple effect on the entire team.


• The relatively low player count is also a factor of course, since it increases the chance to be matched up with seasoned squads rather than random newbies.

There you have it. I could even be missing a few, but I think that's a pretty convincing list already. All in all it just seems that the issue of pub stomping hasn't been a primary consideration in the overall game design, and I believe that there is a lot of low hanging fruit which could make a big difference without requiring huge changes or rocket science algorithms.

Your argument is kinda flawed. Teamwork will always conquer solo play. The better player(s) will win 80% of the time. OBs are a reward for using a sqd. It's not hard to make a sqd in solo chat. There's hundreds of channels that offer LFS (Looking For Squad) Stop trying to make it sound like LFS is sooooo hard.

Don't kick yourself... the current matchmaking is faulty by design. This is what happens when you listen to some people ( Big Corps ) and ignore everyone else. For example.. ; Why CCP decided to make 6 people squads, without checking the possible matchmaking unbalance issues ?

But this is not new... every time something gets **** in this game is to do with that. Big Corps with their personal agendas, and CCP blindly listening to them.

the only prob i see in public matches is entering when its nearly finished. When the NCC reaches critical health why let new players enter when it is not likely to make the blindest bit of difference

I think it is YOU that is missing the point. Any shooter worth talking about, what makes shooters so special is the TEAMWORK aspect. If you have a COD shooter where you just run around solo and enemy shoot, enemy shoot, enemy shoot,(I like COD too) What makes shooters more interesting, more exciting is the team work experience. I don't wanna run around with 15 other smurfs that depend on me to do all the work. I don't wanna put you on my back every game. I like the whole 6 sqd and wish they were 8 people. I like playing with my friends and knowing that I can depend on a few other people to help me get this win while you smurfs sit back and serve no purpose in the game. It may sound cruel but it's the truth. I can't play offense, defense, and special teams. Every player needs help.

IF you go backwards back down to 4 squad or lower vets will leave this game behind. I think it's selfish from a smurf perspective to try to get rid of teamwork and squads. This game is about corporations and rightfully so. By having a squad you should be rewarded.

Your argument is kinda flawed. Teamwork will always conquer solo play. The better player(s) will win 80% of the time. OBs are a reward for using a sqd. It's not hard to make a sqd in solo chat. There's hundreds of channels that offer LFS (Looking For Squad) Stop trying to make it sound like LFS is sooooo hard.

So you ALWAYS play in a Squad ? or some times you play solo ? Because i do both.. Play solo to grind SP and ISK, and in a Squad to have fun...I don't know many people that ALWAYS plays in a Squad .. well.. not true.. the Pubstompers do.

[..] After that there really isn't anything that can be done. [..]

What if people who haven't joined a squad by the time the match starts were automatically placed in a squad?

What if people who haven't joined a squad by the time the match starts were automatically placed in a squad?

Even If we implemented this function what's to stop the anti social peeps from leaving squad when the match start?

Beyond that you can throw people in a group but you CANNOT make them work well together. Truly fluent squad play is forged through hours upon hours of working with a select group players and learning one another's habits, strengths and weaknesses. From that learning how to compliment the playstyles of those around you.

An amalgamation of random players in a squad will never compete with a squad of player's who play together day in and day out.

Wow please calm down Xero, and do read my post again before turning this into a giant flame war. Did I say squads are unfair or should be removed? I don't even know what you are on about. Pub stomping is an issue for everybody, especially for the side which is winning because it tends to make games incredibly boring.

I just listed the facts which lead to the prevalence of pub stomping. Yes, squads are a big factor, but there are ways to deal with that beyond simply getting rid of squads. I expect that better match making will help a lot already, because an obvious improvement would be to reserve at least a little bit of time to try and match up two squads in the background, rather than just seeding squads into the first available match. Even if it's not always possible due to low player count, every bit helps. And the entire point of my thread was that this problem can be tackled by approaching many little problems, rather than requiring dramatic changes (disallowing squads would obviously classify as a dramatic change).

If you have all the answers perhaps enlighten us? By QQing about obvious problems is pointless. Perhaps state HOW CCP can fix match making. Crying and blaming squads isn't gonna do much.

I'm well aware of that. We've already established that organized groups are much better off than disorganized groups, but at least each team would have an equal number of squads capable of gaining OBs. I doubt the antisocial people would bother leaving the squad as they most likely wouldn't have voice chat on in the first place and probably wouldn't even notice they were in a squad.

So what If they could potentially earn an OB? If they're not communicating and working together then they're no better off than running around solo. Only difference is the squad lead may be able to call an OB just before the stomping ends, and If he himself were thrown into a squad what's to say he even knows how to call the OB?

It would in no way be equal to an experienced squad that plays together, in the same time the random squad earns one OB the experienced squad that always plays together has 2-3.

Also since when do OB's turn the tide of a pub stomp? Hell how often do you see a team getting truly stomped even call in one OB?

Point being it's not simply pooling WP for an OB that makes a squad powerful, it's their ability to communicate and move as a single force which a squad of randoms will never accomplish to the degree that an experienced squad can.