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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2732
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Posted - 2013.07.29 12:32:00 -
[61] - Quote
Nalhe Saldana wrote:Good thing you agreed to a EULA that says things change. Yet another street lawyer.
We sure have a lot of them around here, don't we? |
Jathniel
G I A N T EoN.
725
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Posted - 2013.07.29 12:42:00 -
[62] - Quote
Okay....
TIme to be AGGRESSIVE Devil's Advocate.
Mr. Hardon. FYI.... the community, in-general, frowns upon the presence of contact grenades in the game, let alone their use. It's considered, cheap. So forgive them for not looking at the bigger picture, and even incorrectly interpreting the EULA.... It was a BAD idea to buy those many contact grenades. HOWEVER, when player trading is available... I'm sure you will be getting a MASSIVE return in isk sales, provided you don't use those grenades.
That said, it doesn't change the fact that CCP changed the VALUE of something he purchased with money. Hating contact grenades should not make a change like that okay. Even CCP knows this. Why you think they refunded aurum, etc. for scenarios in the past? Legal or not, it's a moral wrong to steal "value" from someone, albeit a very small immorality.
Says a lot about you guys telling him he shouldn't complain...
So Herman Hardon is supposed to just "take it"? He's supposed to have the value of something he purchased diminished without prior warning, and just "adapt or die"?
All of you guys saying that's what he should do... are a bunch of hypocritical, narcissistic sycophants... and the countries you live in are that much more worse off because of your existence.
You would suffer getting conned by a company, hate it, but just take it up the ass and be totally spineless... but when someone else decides they want to complain and fight, instead of showing solidarity with that person, you go all bravado on them instead. Essentially saying, "Show how tough you are! Take it up the ass like we did!"
lmao go prove how tough you are and jump off a cliff; gravity won't hesitate in taking FULL advantage of dat ass. xD |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
988
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 12:49:00 -
[63] - Quote
Allah's Snackbar wrote:I think the lesson here is clear.
Don't give CCP money for anything ever as the game will probably be as stable as a bi-polar without their pills until forever.
The forums continue to demonstrate wonderful lessons on how players are treated by the community as a whole.
Keep it up guys! I know CCP managed to scrape a couple of more people up in the last week but you'll be rid of them in no time!
This is so good I had to go do you-know-what.
Lesson learned, albeit a little too late for my part... |
Herman Hardon
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
10
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Posted - 2013.07.29 15:35:00 -
[64] - Quote
FOR THE TROLLS ________________
So lets make this issue into something other then just a game . I am a consumer who wants to buy a couple hot rod cars "logi/nades" . Now maybe I wanna buy the cars cause I feel my weiner "gameskills" just aren't good enough . Maybe I wanna save one of them cars and sell them for more money down the road . I head off to my dealer and pick out one red on blk sports car . I pay all the money up front , sign all the paperwork . Now the dealer brings me my cars . GREAT just what I wanted . Two months later 2 tow trucks show up and take my cars away , and in there place they leave me one purple station wagon. Dealler says well that car was to powerfull , so now all you can have is this purple grocery getter. So I spent all my money "isk" on what was suppose to be two hot rods and I get stuck with a lemon.
As a consumer do you think I will buy anything eles from that dealer , even tho we had done good business in the past ? Was it a fair trade on the dealers part not to give me any options after he had changed what I had bought , to what he now things is a better car for me ?
If u assume this is about money , you are sadly mistakin. If I can tinkle away $500 dollars on a video game still feed the kids pay the bills what concern is it to you? This is about getting what you pay for or at least the option to change ur mind . Just like ccp changed there minds on what they would provide for the money !!!!! Some ppl don't spend there whole day on here trolling others , as you can see I personally post very little .
THANX YOU HERMAN HARDON
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Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
756
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 15:40:00 -
[65] - Quote
Paladin Sas wrote:mistake #1 - you speced into a FOTM and not something that you truely were interested in, even after the entire community warned of impending nerf
mistake #2 - you assume american laws apply to out of country companies, anything you buy with AUR is from CCP (Iceland) and running through Sony (Japan) as an imetediary. Their both protected by the EULA, you should go read it.
mistake #3 - your posting this on the forums instead of making a ticket to take your issues up with CCP personally, stop asking to get trolled
mistake #4 - why the KITTEN would you buy 8k of something? thats just asking for trouble in the event of an impending nerf
CCP has an branch In Atlanta.. but no, no refund to the OP.. like was stated, it's digital content that they have the right to change. It would be nice of them to offer some sort of aur buyback though for people who purchased huge quantities of items that were changed.. but is not required of them. |
Herman Hardon
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
10
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Posted - 2013.07.29 15:40:00 -
[66] - Quote
ADD SP WERE ISK IS ALSO !!!! DUNNO HOW TO EDIT !
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
161
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 15:59:00 -
[67] - Quote
This why we need a respec option, if we did this thread would have never been made. The suit you have today may not be the suit you have tomorrow.
No respec option no play for me, CCP continues to touch everything i have no clue how to use my SP. They CCP wants to tweak everything give us the players a choice to use a different class. Touch and tweak till your heart is content but give us a respec option. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
967
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 16:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
It was a stupid idea to stockpile an item that the entire community was asking to nerf. Especially to do so in such a blatent P2W manner. The community is right to offer little more than its mockery.
It was a disgraceful customer relations move by CCP to directly encourage the purchase, with aurum, of an item they were at the time planning to nerf. The community is right to be pissed at them.
Herman has no legal challenge to CCP. We all agreed to allow CCP to do stuff like this before we played the game. We didn't agree to be happy about it however. Herman isn't entitled to an aurum refund. But if I was CCP I'd offer anyone who bought sale items only to see them nerfed, a full optional refund of the aurum spent. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
967
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 16:55:00 -
[69] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:This why we need a respec option, if we did this thread would have never been made. The suit you have today may not be the suit you have tomorrow.
No respec option no play for me, CCP continues to touch everything i have no clue how to use my SP. They CCP wants to tweak everything give us the players a choice to use a different class. Touch and tweak till your heart is content but give us a respec option.
Play with gear you want to use, and not gear you'll use as a crutch. If you're just going to constantly ask for respecs, then I'm glad you won't be playing. The community doesn't want you, and the game will do better without you. |
Big Popa Smurff
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
428
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:09:00 -
[70] - Quote
this is really a legal matter whether you like it or not. CCP has sold a product for real money, which people bought because of what the product originally offered. now this product has changed to something that the consumer did not originally pay for. Under the Goods of sales act CCP is obligated by law to Refund anyone who is unhappy with the altered product. |
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KING SALASI
MAJOR DISTRIBUTION
161
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Posted - 2013.07.29 17:21:00 -
[71] - Quote
Chunky Munkey wrote:KING SALASI wrote:This why we need a respec option, if we did this thread would have never been made. The suit you have today may not be the suit you have tomorrow.
No respec option no play for me, CCP continues to touch everything i have no clue how to use my SP. They CCP wants to tweak everything give us the players a choice to use a different class. Touch and tweak till your heart is content but give us a respec option. Play with gear you want to use, and not gear you'll use as a crutch. If you're just going to constantly ask for respecs, then I'm glad you won't be playing. The community doesn't want you, and the game will do better without you.
I want to have FUN hence why i play video games. I have a job as a coder, respecs allow you to have Fun something Dust is lacking ATM. |
Vin Mora
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
76
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:28:00 -
[72] - Quote
Big Popa Smurff wrote:this is really a legal matter whether you like it or not. CCP has sold a product for real money, which people bought because of what the product originally offered. now this product has changed to something that the consumer did not originally pay for. Under the Goods of sales act CCP is obligated by law to Refund anyone who is unhappy with the altered product. Actually they sold him in game credit, not the grenades directly.
If they increased the value of AUR packs without retroactively increasing previous purchases, then you (and the OP) would have a point.
The separation is what 'protects' CCP in this case, they gave him in game credits, and he choose to spend his credit and something in the game, knowing that they have the right to change the stats (for better or worse). |
Herman Hardon
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Melchiah ARANeAE wrote:This is entirely your own fault. If you knew anything about this game you would understand that nothing is supposed to be the best. All weapons and suits are supposed to be good in certain situations, but fall behind in others. Contact grenades and Caldari Logi suits didn't really have any drawbacks. Which meant they were obviously going to be changed to make them balanced. Skill into things that you know you'll use well even after they are balanced. This is why there are no respecs. Be smart with your resources, be it ISK, AUR or skillpoints. And never buy 8000 of one item. That's just stupid. And why can't you put that module on your suit? Is it because you already have too much on it already and don't have the CPU or PG the use it? If so, take stuff off. Another problem with your own resource management.
Also, In your second post you complained about there only being one heavy suit. Well, as I learnt in the first week of playing this game, they're introducing those soon. So hold back until they release the suit you want. You can still use HMGs and forge guns with the militia heavy suit.
Has nothing to do with pg cpu , u cant equip it to ur suit . |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
762
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:44:00 -
[74] - Quote
I still stand by what I said , When changing something like that drastically. It being digital content that ccp has the sole right to change at any time they want, regardless of your opinion sucks when your stuff gets changed.. you can't sue them for it, but you can diminish their reputation. When making a change as someone stated that devalues what something was worth and many have purchased it.. They should do an aur buy back, should not be that hard for them to remove from assets and place back aur into account ( might be a fudge up.. but those can be fixed ). This way no reputation is tarnished, nobody lost money , everyone is happy and will buy something else.
Logi suits refunds should not count imo, it is NOT that drastic. The nade on the other hand, being able to carry only one.. completely devalues what it originally was.
just my thoughts |
Knightshade Belladonna
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
762
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:48:00 -
[75] - Quote
Herman Hardon wrote: FOR THE TROLLS ________________
So lets make this issue into something other then just a game . I am a consumer who wants to buy a couple hot rod cars "logi/nades" . Now maybe I wanna buy the cars cause I feel my weiner "gameskills" just aren't good enough . Maybe I wanna save one of them cars and sell them for more money down the road . I head off to my dealer and pick out one red on blk sports car . I pay all the money up front , sign all the paperwork . Now the dealer brings me my cars . GREAT just what I wanted . Two months later 2 tow trucks show up and take my cars away , and in there place they leave me one purple station wagon. Dealler says well that car was to powerfull , so now all you can have is this purple grocery getter. So I spent all my money "isk" on what was suppose to be two hot rods and I get stuck with a lemon.
As a consumer do you think I will buy anything eles from that dealer , even tho we had done good business in the past ? Was it a fair trade on the dealers part not to give me any options after he had changed what I had bought , to what he now things is a better car for me ?
If u assume this is about money , you are sadly mistakin. If I can tinkle away $500 dollars on a video game still feed the kids pay the bills what concern is it to you? This is about getting what you pay for or at least the option to change ur mind . Just like ccp changed there minds on what they would provide for the money !!!!! Some ppl don't spend there whole day on here trolling others , as you can see I personally post very little .
THANX YOU HERMAN HARDON
Cars are irrelevant to digital content like this.. but got your point.
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Doyle Reese
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
340
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 17:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Herman Hardon wrote:I have bought over 8,000 fused m2 cavity nades before u put them on sale and before u announced that you would be cutting the quainaty of the item I purchased in half . Same can be said with the aur logi caldari suit , so what I spec into because it was op , now you wanna take its advertived bonus and move it to another suit . The logi suit was bought when it was suppose to have x amount of cpu and this is ur race bonus, now u decide OOOO lets change it to this . Now that would be fine and dandy if it were only isk you were messing with but because I have used real money to purchase ur stuff , it now becomes a problem . This in America is called false advertisement were u say ur selling me one thing but in reality after the purchase u wanna change the product . I really think that as far as respecs you should come up with away to make them available , when you make these changes also u should buy back ur aur gear when u change them from what they were origianly sold as . I have a milita blue print item I bought that I cant even attach to my suit anymore . Idk off hand what it is but its a biotic not the red one or blue one but it "was" yellow . Think it gave 50 % stamina or something . I know there are ton of miss spellings I see all the red lines , its way to early in the am to fix this , also for all that are gunna complain contact nades are ptw and that logi cald is op , IDK that's why I spec into it because it was the BEST suit . Hence the reason for all the qq ing on forms .
CCP thanks you for your patronage. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
973
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 18:52:00 -
[77] - Quote
KING SALASI wrote:Chunky Munkey wrote:KING SALASI wrote:This why we need a respec option, if we did this thread would have never been made. The suit you have today may not be the suit you have tomorrow.
No respec option no play for me, CCP continues to touch everything i have no clue how to use my SP. They CCP wants to tweak everything give us the players a choice to use a different class. Touch and tweak till your heart is content but give us a respec option. Play with gear you want to use, and not gear you'll use as a crutch. If you're just going to constantly ask for respecs, then I'm glad you won't be playing. The community doesn't want you, and the game will do better without you. I want to have FUN hence why i play video games. I have a job as a coder, respecs allow you to have Fun something Dust is lacking ATM.
Go play a game with respecs then. Dust puts a deliberate emphasis on earning your equipment & vehicles over time. The SP lifespan of this game drops by about 90% if anyone can just respec when they want. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
973
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 19:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
Big Popa Smurff wrote:this is really a legal matter whether you like it or not. CCP has sold a product for real money, which people bought because of what the product originally offered. now this product has changed to something that the consumer did not originally pay for. Under the Goods of sales act CCP is obligated by law to Refund anyone who is unhappy with the altered product.
I'm afraid not Papa. Herman's purchase of Aurum is legally protected. But what he does with that Aurum isn't. The only way it would be, is if CCP suddenly doubled the aurum cost of every item. Then they would be guilty of reducing the value of the aurum. A bit like selling an insurance policy and then reducing what that covers. |
Maken Tosch
DUST University Ivy League
3491
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 19:29:00 -
[79] - Quote
OP, you are stupid.
Seriously, 8k units on a item that will suffer a nerf and you knew it was coming. |
Robocop Junior
The Surrogates Of War
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 20:43:00 -
[80] - Quote
I can't believe this is even still going I thought it was a joke. Dumb post from a dumber poster with a dumbass name who did a dumb act. Chances are his kids are......yea lol. Herman Hardon? Really? 8,000? C'MON MAAAAAAAAAAN!!! |
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BGoat
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
17
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Posted - 2013.07.29 22:06:00 -
[81] - Quote
The issue here isn't the legality of changing the characteristics of the contact grenades as they were advertised at the time of sale. Really, this is an issue of business ethics, as others have pointed out. The fact that you CAN do something does not always justify the actual act of doing it.
The EULA is there, primarily, to protect CCP from major lawsuits. If they need to point to the EULA on a daily basis to defend the decisions they are making, they are doing something wrong.
Or, to say it in another way that people on this forum may be able to relate to:
The EULA is CCP's Flaylock Pistol. |
Herman Hardon
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 23:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
So most ppl here believe I am stupid for buying bulk items from ccp ? Its my fault they sold me an item that was advertised at this amount , then a few months pass and now they tell me they will only supply me with x amount ? Oh I signed the agreement to let them change whatever they wish , with zero accountability .
I have been a dust member since dec, so I guess I have contributed $75 dollars a month to the game . My guess is that is more then most of you . You all contribute your words , in the form and half of them words are negative and derogatory . To the point of when there is an issue , it is met with DUH u IDIOT, go play another game . I understand now why everyone posts on their alt accounts . Because if your thoughts don't meet the "criteria" your BASHED with rude criticism .
Maybe one day this will happen to one of the popular kids and you' ll all cry what a shame . How could this be good business . I do not see a fan base growth if when you have an issue you are directed to the forums for a verbal lashing . As a small business owner I would not allow my customers or potential customers to be subjected to such abuses . Nor would I let a customer service issue go to this extent without some sort of response . Like it was up to the community to decide weather or not this issue needed attention .
I wanna thank the ppl that took the time to read the argument and comment objectively , weather it was in favor or not . To ccp maybe you will comment "SOON" so ill hold my breath on that . But until then I will purchase 0 aur from here on out till you have a fair offer that is proposed and excepted .
THANX YOU HERMAN HARDON |
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