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KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
985
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 08:45:00 -
[31] - Quote
I understand and agrees 100% with the OP.
I think that 1 of the 3 scenarioes will happen:
1. CCP removes the current nades off the market, and replace the nades with a new version that has 1 instead of 3. Those who have bought them before the change will keep them as they are.
2. The nades will be removed and the AUR will be reinbursed, as the OP asked for.
3. We have to take this up with our local consumer rights offices, at least we have those in Norway. Then its a case of legally intereperet the effect of the AULA compared to generel consumer laws, this I don't know much about, I have a family member that got a degree in law and I'll let him look at it, I'll post it here if it is anything useful.
If CCP will go foreward with this, nerfing equipment that has been bought for real mnoney, without reinbursing the AUR, they will certainly lose even more credibility and risk losing future sales aswell. I for one, will be very wary of buying anything AUR if this is handled the wrong way
And to all those moronic fanboys that points and laughs at OP. If the same had happened to boosters, would you still have the same opinion then? Lets say you just bought 6 months worth of active and passive boosters, and they're now suddenly reused from 30 to 15 days and makingg them last 3 instead of 6 months. I have a hard time believing that even the fanboys would say HTFU and adapt or die if it happened to them.
This is a matter of principle and thousands of years of trade practice forming a basis for all to live by. Lets see how CCP plays this one out....
PS. Direct hit nades are for noobs that can't **** a proper nade, this hasn't stopped me from stocking up on them, they're useful to make certain fittings, well fit, without having to wield the basic 400 dmg 6 m blast radius locus nades.... |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
221
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 08:50:00 -
[32] - Quote
My gut reaction is you stocked up on an OP item you believed would be removed from the market in the future. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, you probably knew if you didn't someone else would be using the same trick to stomp you in the future. I wish I had bought more of those Hacked EX-0 AV nades myself, they were a bargain and a half.
However, your foresight shouldn't be punished. IMHO, CCP should either: 1. As a sign of good faith, double the number of these grenades in your assets to offset the fact that each fitting amount has been halved. 2. Offer a refund of AUR |
Malkai Inos
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
897
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 08:53:00 -
[33] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:My gut reaction is you stocked up on an OP item you believed would be removed from the market in the future. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, you probably knew if you didn't someone else would be using the same trick to stomp you in the future. I wish I had bought more of those Hacked EX-0 AV nades myself, they were a bargain and a half.
However, your foresight shouldn't be punished. IMHO, CCP should either: 1. As a sign of good faith, double the number of these grenades in your assets to offset the fact that each fitting amount has been halved. 2. Offer a refund of AUR His foresight didn't get punished. He gambled and lost. That's it.
Putting his own cash at stake his his right but at the same time his problem.
|
Kalante Schiffer
damn i suck
370
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 08:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
who buys 8,000 contact grenades? let alone aurum ones. this guy is an idiot n a joke since contact grenades are for pussies |
Kadar Saeleid
M.T.A.C Assault Operations Command
31
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:00:00 -
[35] - Quote
Technically that's more of a bait and switch. And I think its been tidily summed up with reference to the EULA. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6697
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:11:00 -
[36] - Quote
Well if you have 8k of them I guess you better get good with them and make them count.
I mean technically you have an infinite number of them in battle if supplied.
You still only lose one when you die.
They're still going to kill people in one grenade. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
275
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
Let me get this straight: You skilled into OP **** just cuz, then bought a insanely high amount of it, and saw all of the QQing, and seriously thought there would be no nerf? hold on, let me go get something..... here, read this.
Peace, Aizen |
Arunis Gen
G I A N T EoN.
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
. . .
. . .
Why did you buy 8,000 of them, let alone spend $500 on a game?
. . .?
What?
. . .
I'm confused. |
Aaroniero d'Lioncourt
The Southern Legion
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:34:00 -
[39] - Quote
Somebody call Judge Judy! |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
986
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:34:00 -
[40] - Quote
RedRebelCork wrote:My gut reaction is you stocked up on an OP item you believed would be removed from the market in the future. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, you probably knew if you didn't someone else would be using the same trick to stomp you in the future. I wish I had bought more of those Hacked EX-0 AV nades myself, they were a bargain and a half.
However, your foresight shouldn't be punished. IMHO, CCP should either: 1. As a sign of good faith, double the number of these grenades in your assets to offset the fact that each fitting amount has been halved. 2. Offer a refund of AUR
Nr 1. is not good IMO. It doesn't matter how many you have as long as they're nerfed to a point where you won't use them....
And it they haven't been halved, they've gone from 3 to 1, giving him 3 times the amount he has now is not goint to help... |
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Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
240
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Wow you sir are the epitomy of ..... well whatever is running the game..... I have no sympathy for you.
Couldn't have said it better myself. |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
986
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:40:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well if you have 8k of them I guess you better get good with them and make them count.
I mean technically you have an infinite number of them in battle if supplied.
You still only lose one when you die.
They're still going to kill people in one grenade.
Agreed, IWS, they hardly ever kill any high level players in one nade though....
But do you as a CPM really think its worth keeping the HTFU and "adapt or die" attitude in this instance and risk loosing even more players and not least set a bad example for future buyers of AUR gear?
What is the most important part here, helping the game succeed and keep its players happy? (Not meant as a joke.) Or take the HTFU road just because this is New Eden?
This is shady business ethics at best, not a point in CCPs favor. |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
986
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 09:41:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:True Adamance wrote:Wow you sir are the epitomy of ..... well whatever is running the game..... I have no sympathy for you. Couldn't have said it better myself.
I'm confused, I thought CCP was running this game? |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6700
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:11:00 -
[44] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:True Adamance wrote:Wow you sir are the epitomy of ..... well whatever is ruining the game..... I have no sympathy for you. Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm confused, I thought CCP was running this game?
Fix'ed and the more we stay the hell away from CoD behavior or catering the better. |
Hawkings Greenback
Red Star Jr. EoN.
69
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:14:00 -
[45] - Quote
Nalhe Saldana wrote:Good thing you agreed to a EULA that says things change.
Yup |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
369
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:30:00 -
[46] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well if you have 8k of them I guess you better get good with them and make them count.
I mean technically you have an infinite number of them in battle if supplied.
You still only lose one when you die.
They're still going to kill people in one grenade. Agreed, IWS, they hardly ever kill any high level players in one nade though.... But do you as a CPM really think its worth keeping the HTFU and "adapt or die" attitude in this instance and risk loosing even more players and not least set a bad example for future buyers of AUR gear? What is the most important part here, helping the game succeed and keep its players happy? (Not meant as a joke.) Or take the HTFU road just because this is New Eden? This is shady business ethics at best, not a point in CCPs favor.
Come on man. I don't think anyone is going to read this post and think: "You know, I was going to buy that BPO, but not anymore". You can get every BPO for about 5USD. CCP could change everything about how they worked and you'd still be okay. I know I'm not going to do anything different with my money (Which, for the record, is nothing. But that's because I'm basically done with my role).
Yes, I understand that you (you particularly) were hit very unfairly with the nerf bat when the CalLogi was changed. You spec'ed into the role to actually use it as intended and you were swept up with all the people who abused it. You are the true exception to the situation. This is not your situation, though. This is one extremely bad decision that resulted in an equally bad outcome that was multiplied by how much he put into it. As someone said earlier, he took a gamble on the contact grenades staying the same for as long as he owned some. A huge gamble. And he lost. That's just the way it is. That's why you always hedge your bets - ISK or AUR - and see how the game changes.
TL:DR: As much as I hate utilitarianism, this is rule utilitarianism at its prime. Some people might be hurt or slighted by the "No Respec" rule, but at the end of the day it protects our game from people like Herman - those who try to buy their way into non-balanced or OP gear in order to game the system. I, for one, hope that he doesn't get a respec and that he learns to handle his money and time better. |
Arunis Gen
G I A N T EoN.
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote: Come on man. I don't think anyone is going to read this post and think: "You know, I was going to buy that BPO, but not anymore". You can get every BPO for about 5USD. CCP could change everything about how they worked and you'd still be okay. I know I'm not going to do anything different with my money (Which, for the record, is nothing. But that's because I'm basically done with my role).
Yes, I understand that you (you particularly) were hit very unfairly with the nerf bat when the CalLogi was changed. You spec'ed into the role to actually use it as intended and you were swept up with all the people who abused it. You are the true exception to the situation. This is not your situation, though. This is one extremely bad decision that resulted in an equally bad outcome that was multiplied by how much he put into it. As someone said earlier, he took a gamble on the contact grenades staying the same for as long as he owned some. A huge gamble. And he lost. That's just the way it is. That's why you always hedge your bets - ISK or AUR - and see how the game changes.
TL:DR: As much as I hate utilitarianism, this is rule utilitarianism at its prime. Some people might be hurt or slighted by the "No Respec" rule, but at the end of the day it protects our game from people like Herman - those who try to buy their way into non-balanced or OP gear in order to game the system. I, for one, hope that he doesn't get a respec and that he learns to handle his money and time better.
+1 Don't think this could be said any better. |
Thor Zeda
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
If you want perfection, play EVE. Dust is still being developed. Personally, I think CCP has done a great job. Stop whining. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
243
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Edit: Shame on you fanboys. Belittleling someone for buying AUR gear and support the game with real money. Hang your heads in shame....
It's not belittling him, more like belittling using that as justification for whining.
Also, this:
Dust EULA wrote:CCP may update, upgrade or otherwise enhance the Software at any time, in its sole discretion, without obligation to you. |
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
243
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:49:00 -
[50] - Quote
Thor Zeda wrote:If you want perfection, play EVE. Dust is still being developed. Personally, I think CCP has done a great job. Stop whining. Well, if they play EVE, they'll be in for a greater shock when CCP goes about balancing the game. EVE is by no means perfect, nor will if ever be, since things get changed up all the time in there. |
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
6703
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:50:00 -
[51] - Quote
You know idiots in eve make just as much massive bets on the market there as well. Hell I remember one alliance going bankrupt out of existence because they tried to control the tritium market. What a bunch of morons.
Those that recently invested in the right kinds of ice however, profited, massively.
The funniest part is that either thing could have been funded with real money. |
Delta90212
Dust2Dust.
15
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 10:53:00 -
[52] - Quote
Wait why are you in seraphim initiative again? |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
987
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:04:00 -
[53] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:KingBabar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well if you have 8k of them I guess you better get good with them and make them count.
I mean technically you have an infinite number of them in battle if supplied.
You still only lose one when you die.
They're still going to kill people in one grenade. Agreed, IWS, they hardly ever kill any high level players in one nade though.... But do you as a CPM really think its worth keeping the HTFU and "adapt or die" attitude in this instance and risk loosing even more players and not least set a bad example for future buyers of AUR gear? What is the most important part here, helping the game succeed and keep its players happy? (Not meant as a joke.) Or take the HTFU road just because this is New Eden? This is shady business ethics at best, not a point in CCPs favor. Come on man. I don't think anyone is going to read this post and think: "You know, I was going to buy that BPO, but not anymore". You can get every BPO for about 5USD. CCP could change everything about how they worked and you'd still be okay. I know I'm not going to do anything different with my money (Which, for the record, is nothing. But that's because I'm basically done with my role). Yes, I understand that you (you particularly) were hit very unfairly with the nerf bat when the CalLogi was changed. You spec'ed into the role to actually use it as intended and you were swept up with all the people who abused it. You are the true exception to the situation. This is not your situation, though. This is one extremely bad decision that resulted in an equally bad outcome that was multiplied by how much he put into it. As someone said earlier, he took a gamble on the contact grenades staying the same for as long as he owned some. A huge gamble. And he lost. That's just the way it is. That's why you always hedge your bets - ISK or AUR - and see how the game changes. TL:DR: As much as I hate utilitarianism, this is rule utilitarianism at its prime. Some people might be hurt or slighted by the "No Respec" rule, but at the end of the day it protects our game from people like Herman - those who try to buy their way into non-balanced or OP gear in order to game the system. I, for one, hope that he doesn't get a respec and that he learns to handle his money and time better.
Thanks for the kind (and true) words.....
My point still stands though.
There seem to be no limit in how many players the HTFU Evetard crowd is willing to sacrifice just to keep the holy Eve mantras up. Its sad really, that the mentallity is more towards finger pointing and riddicule, as opposed to co-operation with the player base and sharing a common goal of making the Dust experience as good as possible for all.
Its also obvious to me at least that the fanboys mostly haven't played competitive FPS games for a decade, and the ones shouting HTFU and "adapt or die" the highest is mostly non-factors in regards to competitive play in Dust. I'm not that interrested in those guys' feedback. I'm quite certain the game would be a lot better, at least for me, if the FPS veterans had more of a say so than the ones coming from EVE who actually come here and defend the quality of Dust, even in its current state.
In a way, Eve ruined Dust.
-Why can't you guys be more friendly and inclusive?
|
dustwaffle
Gravity Prone EoN.
244
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:10:00 -
[54] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Thanks for the kind (and true) words.....
My point still stands though.
There seem to be no limit in how many players the HTFU Evetard crowd is willing to sacrifice just to keep the holy Eve mantras up. Its sad really, that the mentallity is more towards finger pointing and riddicule, as opposed to co-operation with the player base and sharing a common goal of making the Dust experience as good as possible for all.
Its also obvious to me at least that the fanboys mostly haven't played competitive FPS games for a decade, and the ones shouting HTFU and "adapt or die" the highest is mostly non-factors in regards to competitive play in Dust. I'm not that interrested in those guys' feedback. I'm quite certain the game would be a lot better, at least for me, if the FPS veterans had more of a say so than the ones coming from EVE who actually come here and defend the quality of Dust, even in its current state.
In a way, Eve ruined Dust.
-Why can't you guys be more friendly and inclusive?
Just so you know, the random insults you try to spew don't help you with your arguments.
Yes, you got shafted with the CPU changes, as did many other actual CalLogi Logibros. But seriously, adapting to changes is harder than complaining, so a lot of people choose the less brain engaging option. Don't be one of them. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3622
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Go shove a cactus up your ass. |
Greasepalms
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
158
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:34:00 -
[56] - Quote
it's so funny when I hear people buying hundreds (thousands) of items in one go.. Can't you just buy them in batches since, you know, you probably won't be using it in a few weeks? |
Rogue Saint
Science For Death The Shadow Eclipse
74
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
@OP - You bought AURUM, the "value" of that hasn't changed. |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
369
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
KingBabar wrote:Piercing Serenity wrote:KingBabar wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Well if you have 8k of them I guess you better get good with them and make them count.
I mean technically you have an infinite number of them in battle if supplied.
You still only lose one when you die.
They're still going to kill people in one grenade. Agreed, IWS, they hardly ever kill any high level players in one nade though.... But do you as a CPM really think its worth keeping the HTFU and "adapt or die" attitude in this instance and risk loosing even more players and not least set a bad example for future buyers of AUR gear? What is the most important part here, helping the game succeed and keep its players happy? (Not meant as a joke.) Or take the HTFU road just because this is New Eden? This is shady business ethics at best, not a point in CCPs favor. Come on man. I don't think anyone is going to read this post and think: "You know, I was going to buy that BPO, but not anymore". You can get every BPO for about 5USD. CCP could change everything about how they worked and you'd still be okay. I know I'm not going to do anything different with my money (Which, for the record, is nothing. But that's because I'm basically done with my role). Yes, I understand that you (you particularly) were hit very unfairly with the nerf bat when the CalLogi was changed. You spec'ed into the role to actually use it as intended and you were swept up with all the people who abused it. You are the true exception to the situation. This is not your situation, though. This is one extremely bad decision that resulted in an equally bad outcome that was multiplied by how much he put into it. As someone said earlier, he took a gamble on the contact grenades staying the same for as long as he owned some. A huge gamble. And he lost. That's just the way it is. That's why you always hedge your bets - ISK or AUR - and see how the game changes. TL:DR: As much as I hate utilitarianism, this is rule utilitarianism at its prime. Some people might be hurt or slighted by the "No Respec" rule, but at the end of the day it protects our game from people like Herman - those who try to buy their way into non-balanced or OP gear in order to game the system. I, for one, hope that he doesn't get a respec and that he learns to handle his money and time better. Thanks for the kind (and true) words..... My point still stands though. There seem to be no limit in how many players the HTFU Evetard crowd is willing to sacrifice just to keep the holy Eve mantras up. Its sad really, that the mentallity is more towards finger pointing and riddicule, as opposed to co-operation with the player base and sharing a common goal of making the Dust experience as good as possible for all. Its also obvious to me at least that the fanboys mostly haven't played competitive FPS games for a decade, and the ones shouting HTFU and "adapt or die" the highest is mostly non-factors in regards to competitive play in Dust. I'm not that interrested in those guys' feedback. I'm quite certain the game would be a lot better, at least for me, if the FPS veterans had more of a say so than the ones coming from EVE who actually come here and defend the quality of Dust, even in its current state. In a way, Eve ruined Dust. -Why can't you guys be more friendly and inclusive?
On this topic, I agree with you. I understand and sometimes agree with the philosophy behind HTFU, but I have never railed on a new player for not knowing what they were doing, nor am I heartless when it comes to people who genuinely deserve(d) respecs for huge changes made to the game. I can't fault anyone for putting in the time and effort when it comes to making their character. I won't expect anyone to be any less angry or upset than I would be in the same situation. For those people, I have sympathy.
In my experience, most of the people who complain on the forums are people who did what Herman did and attempted to game the system in one way or another. Or they specced into something "popular" without looking back at the history of "popular" things in DUST and/or without taking the time to read the forums - the equivalent of a newspaper in DUST - to find out about any upcoming changes. I believe in kindness, equity, and fun above all else. But I won't take the time to care about you if you - "you" being any random player - don't do what is in your power to change your situation for the better, or assume that you are entitled to something because you exist.
TL:DR: If you use the tools you were given to build a nice game for yourself, I'll be someone who'll sympathize and try to help if it falls apart. If you assume that you deserve changes, believe you are a "Shareholder" of DUST because you spent some AUR, or assume that CCP (or any company really) should cater to your needs at the expense of the community, i have no feelings for you. |
Allah's Snackbar
Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic
448
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 11:55:00 -
[59] - Quote
I think the lesson here is clear.
Don't give CCP money for anything ever as the game will probably be as stable as a bi-polar without their pills until forever.
The forums continue to demonstrate wonderful lessons on how players are treated by the community as a whole.
Keep it up guys! I know CCP managed to scrape a couple of more people up in the last week but you'll be rid of them in no time! |
KingBabar
Ancient Exiles Negative-Feedback
987
|
Posted - 2013.07.29 12:04:00 -
[60] - Quote
dustwaffle wrote:KingBabar wrote:Thanks for the kind (and true) words.....
My point still stands though.
There seem to be no limit in how many players the HTFU Evetard crowd is willing to sacrifice just to keep the holy Eve mantras up. Its sad really, that the mentallity is more towards finger pointing and riddicule, as opposed to co-operation with the player base and sharing a common goal of making the Dust experience as good as possible for all.
Its also obvious to me at least that the fanboys mostly haven't played competitive FPS games for a decade, and the ones shouting HTFU and "adapt or die" the highest is mostly non-factors in regards to competitive play in Dust. I'm not that interrested in those guys' feedback. I'm quite certain the game would be a lot better, at least for me, if the FPS veterans had more of a say so than the ones coming from EVE who actually come here and defend the quality of Dust, even in its current state.
In a way, Eve ruined Dust.
-Why can't you guys be more friendly and inclusive?
Just so you know, the random insults you try to spew don't help you with your arguments. Yes, you got shafted with the CPU changes, as did many other actual CalLogi Logibros. But seriously, adapting to changes is harder than complaining, so a lot of people choose the less brain engaging option. Don't be one of them.
I personally won't have any problem with adapting to the new Cal Logi suit, I've said so before. This is however not the topic at hand. This is about business ethics and the way CCP handles themselves, we'll have to see, CCP may yet grant a refund on the AUR purchases made. Yes, I know about the Eula, it might make CCP "technically right", it does however not grant them much karma IMO, its simply not the right way of doing it.
Pointing a finger at the OP saying "you moron, now you get what you deserved for buying AUR stuff and supporting the game", its not exactly what you'd call constructive either....
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