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LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
293
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 07:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
Some players still believe that the HMG is an under powered weapon. Some even argue that HMGs need to be buffed to the point of outclassing the AR.
As an HMG Heavy myself, I have had my fair share of adding to the UP arguments as well. However, after going over the pros and cons of the weapon, I have come to realize that the HMG is perfect.
Imagine if the light or medium frames could wield the HMG: a smaller frame with faster movement and turn speed, running and gunning with a weapon that could melt even the tankiest of classes. In this scenario, the HMG is Godlike, possibly being one of the most overpowered weapons to ever be fitted into a merc's hands.
With this example, nothing about the HMG has changed. The RoF is the same. The damage is the same. The range is the same. The clip and overall round capacities are the same. Yet, if fitted to a class with no movement penalties, the HMG would demolish anything in its path.
The problems many Heavy players face lie not so much with the weapon itself, but rather with the Heavy suit and the HMG's inability to compliment it well. As I see it, the fatty is holding back one of the greatest weapons in the game: it does the HMG no justice.
The HMG should divorce the fatty and get hitched with a fast, yet sturdy medium frame. The fatty is awful. Put the blame on it, and stop directing your attention towards a perfectly fine weapon. |
True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
832
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Posted - 2013.07.25 07:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:Some players still believe that the HMG is an under powered weapon. Some even argue that HMGs need to be buffed to the point of outclassing the AR.
As an HMG Heavy myself, I have had my fair share of adding to the UP arguments as well. However, after going over the pros and cons of the weapon, I have come to realize that the HMG is perfect.
Imagine if the light or medium frames could wield the HMG: a smaller frame with faster movement and turn speed, running and gunning with a weapon that could melt even the tankiest of classes. In this scenario, the HMG is Godlike, possibly being one of the most overpowered weapons to ever be fitted into a merc's hands.
With this example, nothing about the HMG has changed. The RoF is the same. The damage is the same. The range is the same. The clip and overall round capacities are the same. Yet, if fitted to a class with no movement penalties, the HMG would demolish anything in its path.
The problems many Heavy players face lie not so much with the weapon itself, but rather with the Heavy suit and the HMG's inability to compliment it well. As I see it, the fatty is holding back one of the greatest weapons in the game: it does the HMG no justice.
The HMG should divorce the fatty and get hitched with a fast, yet sturdy medium frame. The fatty is awful. Put the blame on it, and stop directing your attention towards a perfectly fine weapon. Wouldn't mind seeing a couple of meters added to their range and a slight damage buff.... this coming from an LR user..... Though I agree to some extent with the sentiment that the Heavy is a sweeper class character either in a defensive posture or aggressively in and around cover.... it is not a great suit to be out in the open with. |
Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
387
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:09:00 -
[3] - Quote
didnt CCP at one stage said that the HMG would also cause some sort of slow effect when the bullets hit someone??
its been a while, so i can't remember it properly |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
132
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
try facing a guy named Hound 4 (idk if I spelled it right or not) hes a damn good heavy whatever his build is others should use |
LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
293
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
To be honest, I believe the HMG doesn't really need any damage or range buffs. Tweaking it more will only solidify my claim that the Heavy suit is bad. Every time the HMG is buffed, the tweaks made are completely done in ways to compensate for what the Heavy lacks in.
However, as a stand alone weapon, the HMG is truly a decent killing machine.
If scouts could use HMGs, imagine the havoc they'd unleash on unsuspecting groups of reds. I'd say a standard HMG would be far more efficient than a proto Shotty. Now, imagine a logi equipped with one. Solo win right there.
I was not clear earlier, but I believe the HMG should be left alone and work should be done on the Heavy. |
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
81
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Posted - 2013.07.25 08:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
Then why as a heavy do i do better with a AR at all ranges? The only thing the hmg is good for is barrel stuffing. If the hmg got its damage buffed up then it would be good |
Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
387
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:18:00 -
[7] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:To be honest, I believe the HMG doesn't really need any damage or range buffs. Tweaking it more will only solidify my claim that the Heavy suit is bad. Every time the HMG is buffed, the tweaks made are completely done in ways to compensate for what the Heavy lacks in.
However, as a stand alone weapon, the HMG is truly a decent killing machine.
If scouts could use HMGs, imagine the havoc they'd unleash on unsuspecting groups of reds. I'd say a standard HMG would be far more efficient than a proto Shotty. Now, imagine a logi equipped with one. Solo win right there.
I was not clear earlier, but I believe the HMG should be left alone and work should be done on the Heavy.
well i've killed plenty of shotgun scouts as a heavy
well what sort of work should be done to the heavies? more high/low slots? better movement? faster turning rate? |
Xero The Mishima
Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic
269
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Posted - 2013.07.25 08:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:Some players still believe that the HMG is an under powered weapon. Some even argue that HMGs need to be buffed to the point of outclassing the AR.
As an HMG Heavy myself, I have had my fair share of adding to the UP arguments as well. However, after going over the pros and cons of the weapon, I have come to realize that the HMG is perfect.
Imagine if the light or medium frames could wield the HMG: a smaller frame with faster movement and turn speed, running and gunning with a weapon that could melt even the tankiest of classes. In this scenario, the HMG is Godlike, possibly being one of the most overpowered weapons to ever be fitted into a merc's hands.
With this example, nothing about the HMG has changed. The RoF is the same. The damage is the same. The range is the same. The clip and overall round capacities are the same. Yet, if fitted to a class with no movement penalties, the HMG would demolish anything in its path.
The problems many Heavy players face lie not so much with the weapon itself, but rather with the Heavy suit and the HMG's inability to compliment it well. As I see it, the fatty is holding back one of the greatest weapons in the game: it does the HMG no justice.
The HMG should divorce the fatty and get hitched with a fast, yet sturdy medium frame. The fatty is awful. Put the blame on it, and stop directing your attention towards a perfectly fine weapon.
HMG is fine... NEXT |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
356
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Chibi Andy wrote:didnt CCP at one stage said that the HMG would also cause some sort of slow effect when the bullets hit someone?? its been a while, so i can't remember it properly It was suggested that it have stopping power instead of massive damage so you couldn't charge them head on but messing with player movement is not a fun mechanic in a plaver VS player enviroment. So they just dropped the damage through the floor and imposed the other 50 suggested debuffs on top if it and the suit.
Stop saying it's fine it's a joke how bad it is at this point. When it was first added players used to run away and range you out - strategy. Now you just strafe and go toe to toe with them. It's pathetic. |
Vicious Minotaur
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
108
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
I myself found that the HMG needs a minor tweak or two, regarding recoil and/or range.
Aside from that, any problems experienced by HMG weilding heavies stem from the awful Amarrian suit that we heavies have been stuck with.
HMG really needs mobility (which our only suit does not provide), so from the looks of things: HMG + Minmatar Heavy = awesomesauce. I imagine that each racial heavy suit will shine with their corresponding racial heavy weapon. |
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TERMINALANCE
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
193
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Posted - 2013.07.25 08:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
The HMG is fine as is, the turn speed of the heavy however is far to slow to match the new strafe speeds of medium suits. The heavy turn speed should be increased about 15% so the balance for tracking medium suits can be reestablished.
However much strafe speed has increased due to performance fixes so by that much should the heavy turn speed.
Yes I know its a visual effect of the performance changes that has made strafe speed "faster" but that has taken balance away from the HMG's and been a stealth nerf of the HMG's battle performance. Thus the speed of the heavys turn rate should be increased to realign with performance improvements.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=97177&find=unread |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN.
203
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
At short range: Shotgun is scarier At medium range: AR stomps it
Heavy & HMG combo needs something to make it a bit more beefy. I see a heavy at anything above arms length and it's an easy kill for my AR. Even if I round a corner to see a heavy I just sprint back away behind cover and pot shot him to death. |
NoxMort3m
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
a suit that actually gave a heavy oriented bonus that could still hold a HVY wep would make a crazy defference |
Novawolf McDustingham The514th
The Official Mintchip Fanclub
356
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
You can't separate the HMG from the heavy suit. Yeah, sure, if a scout could run around with an HMG it would be the sh!t, but seriously, a few tenths of a second difference in movement speed between the Winmatar and Amarr heavy suits isn't going to be a boon. |
Kinkku-Ananas Kepappi
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 08:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
The Minmatar heavy suit will probably be more agile and faster than the Amarr one.
And maybe even get a bonus to HMG or something. |
Sotapopthegrey gay
Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State
126
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
5% damage increase. |
Eldest Dragon
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
56
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
I can take down heavies in my med suit with my ar, (sometimes), but as it is now if the heavy is using descent gear and is any good at all...unless I get the jump on him...im dead 1 on 1. Imo both the suit and hmg should be left alone. |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
pure innocence. EoN.
128
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
I think the problem with heavies is simply that theyre too slow with hard armor tanking, this is everyones complaint about armor tanking but i think it really shows with heavies, and it encourages most heavies to simply use reppers instead of plates, I'd like to see heavies have reduced movement penalties from plates in some sort of way, whether it be a default trait for them, or a skill bonus, im not a heavy but i sure as hell wouldn't mind them having no movement penalties from plates, i mean they are big mther fkers, the extra weight shouldn't slow them down. |
Powerh8er
dios ex. Top Men.
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
I agree, the hmg is fine. |
Spademan
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
193
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
I think when we get the Minnie heavy then the HMG will start to shine, as will the Amarr Heavy when we get a heavy laser weapon. |
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Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2684
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:06:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dexter307 wrote:Then why as a heavy do i do better with a AR at all ranges? The only thing the hmg is good for is barrel stuffing. If the hmg got its damage buffed up then it would be good I can't count the number of times I've been instantly blapped by an HMG.
But see, that's a good thing, because every time that's happened, it's been by an HMG user that used enclosed environments and cover to his advantage, catching me off guard and hosing me down before I could fight back.
You don't have to play point-defense with a Heavy suit, but if you don't want to do that, you're going to need to make sure you're the one dictating the terms of the engagement.
Also, have you considered the fact that you might be very good with Assault Rifles? Just because you're a Heavy, you shouldn't feel like you have to use an HMG if you're better with a different weapon. That's the beauty of this game, after all. |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
5466
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:30:00 -
[22] - Quote
I only play in pubs for the most part, but I absolutely own with the HMG in CQC and mid range. The style takes a different approach than my AR fatty, but it's more fun when holding a position or trying to storm a base. I'm looking forward to getting my Boundless and seeing how that plays out.
Damage mods are the dumbest mods though, you're basically forced to run them, otherwise you won't get very many kills :/ |
LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
297
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 13:20:00 -
[23] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:I only play in pubs for the most part, but I absolutely own with the HMG in CQC and mid range. The style takes a different approach than my AR fatty, but it's more fun when holding a position or trying to storm a base. I'm looking forward to getting my Boundless and seeing how that plays out.
Damage mods are the dumbest mods though, you're basically forced to run them, otherwise you won't get very many kills :/ Wait until you get to level 3 proficiency.
The Gastun's MIN-7 with 2 complex damage mods is crazy. Too bad I only have 11 left.
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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3562
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 13:25:00 -
[24] - Quote
Chibi Andy wrote:didnt CCP at one stage said that the HMG would also cause some sort of slow effect when the bullets hit someone?? its been a while, so i can't remember it properly It does. That's why I'm scared shitless of them, I have to jump around or else they will catch me in their stream of bullets and then I'm a gonner. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3176
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 13:28:00 -
[25] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:didnt CCP at one stage said that the HMG would also cause some sort of slow effect when the bullets hit someone?? its been a while, so i can't remember it properly It does. That's why I'm scared shitless of them, I have to jump around or else they will catch me in their stream of bullets and then I'm a gonner. If aiming and hit detection weren't so borked, the HMG would probably be fine. |
Lucifalic
Baked n Loaded
15
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 13:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Maybe armor plates should not cost or not cost as much movement penalties for heavy suits. Since they are designed for this it would only make sense that their "engine" or whatever powers the suit would be powerful enough to accommodate the extra weight from added plates. But as a scout most of the time heavies usually outclass me and I can't dance around them like I could pre 1.2. Getting outstrafed by heavies is annoying lol.
No or reduced movement penalties for plates on heavies. Then hmg would shine more. And more lav damage from the hmg for more versatility from heavy suits. And after heavies are fixed... Please... Some scout love |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3177
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 13:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lucifalic wrote:Maybe armor plates should not cost or not cost as much movement penalties for heavy suits. Since they are designed for this it would only make sense that their "engine" or whatever powers the suit would be powerful enough to accommodate the extra weight from added plates. But as a scout most of the time heavies usually outclass me and I can't dance around them like I could pre 1.2. Getting outstrafed by heavies is annoying lol.
No or reduced movement penalties for plates on heavies. Then hmg would shine more. And more lav damage from the hmg for more versatility from heavy suits. And after heavies are fixed... Please... Some scout love Use a sentinel suit, stack on some complex plates, find a logibro to drop some proto trage hives, hold down point A or B in the complex and see how many kills you get. Armor is OP, but a lot of people don't understand how to take advantage of it. |
Chibi Andy
Forsaken Immortals Top Men.
393
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 18:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Chibi Andy wrote:didnt CCP at one stage said that the HMG would also cause some sort of slow effect when the bullets hit someone?? its been a while, so i can't remember it properly It does. That's why I'm scared shitless of them, I have to jump around or else they will catch me in their stream of bullets and then I'm a gonner. If aiming and hit detection weren't so borked, the HMG would probably be fine.
well i can't really tell if someone has been slowed or not when im shooting at them with the HMG thats why im wondering if the slow effect has been implemented. |
J0hlss0n
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
19
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Posted - 2013.07.25 19:10:00 -
[29] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:HMG + Minmatar Heavy
Im so gonna love that moment. CCP, you need to release the Minmatar Heavy. Now.
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
3118
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 19:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
The fact that the HMG need 3/4 of its mag to kill 1 caldari shield tanked suit means it's fine?
any half decent caldari + AR player can dmg a heavy enough to almost 1v1 a good heavy. Not hard to do when they can strafe faster than a heavy can track, and they can't miss a heavy cuz of the huge hitbox.
Sorry, but the HMG is a joke compared to the AR. In CQC it's suppose to dominate, instead of just barely killing.
Again, I'm not even talking about pub games. I'm talking about going up against good players. By the time I'm done killing a caldari suit I need to reload. That's fine? lol |
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