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shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
346
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 11:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
1) It's very difficult to see somebody repairing a vehicle with remote repair.
They are also impratical and the vehicle version do not rep infantry, i suggest to give a circle of rep around the vehicle when he activate the module (like a triage nanohive), they should repair a fixed amount of HP (total pool) to everybody in their area (both vehicles and infantry) before cool down.
2) Destroying enemy equipment
With the exception of drop-uplinks most of the people don't destroy nano hives.
3) Counter hack
4) Spotting/Scanning |
LT SHANKS
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
281
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 11:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
747
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 11:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
I think CCP is worrying about WP farming... and rightly so. If that things you talking about are implemented, you will see people with 5000 - 6000 wp by the end of the match.. they could potentially get a couple of orbitals by their own. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
347
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 11:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I know, but you understand that in match this thing are usefull, nobody like to be not rewarded for doing his job, maybe they have to implement a separated wp system to reward logistic players and instead of an orbital when you reach 2500 Logi Point you have a 10 second scansion of all the map or another buff. |
KingBlade82
The Phoenix Federation
125
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 11:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I think CCP is worrying about WP farming... and rightly so. If that things you talking about are implemented, you will see people with 5000 - 6000 wp by the end of the match.. they could potentially get a couple of orbitals by their own.
I doubt that but they need to add it so randoms take that stuff out and don't wait to hack so they get points -_- |
Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
747
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 11:51:00 -
[6] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I know, but you understand that in match this thing are usefull, nobody like to be not rewarded for doing his job, maybe they have to implement a separated wp system to reward logistic players and instead of an orbital when you reach 2500 Logi Point you have a 10 second scansion of all the map or another buff.
Yeah... that will work. No sure if CCP is going to consider having two different WP systems ;
- WP from combat Actions - WP from Support Actions
That will take to different WP allocations, with to different bonus actions ;
- Orbital for Combat Actions - Map Scan for Support Actions
Will be cool to have that.. "maybe" CCP ? |
Piercing Serenity
PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies
357
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 12:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
A rough fix I had for Orbitals was this:
Disconnect Orbitals from WP - let Eve pilots fire on planets at will with terrible accuracy. Add some in-game instillation that mercs can hack, and let it act as an accuracy modifier for the EVE pilot. Owning this installation/infrastructure lets DUST players bring up the map to call in an orbital strike on a particular point, as normal.
This might let CCP be more loose with giving out WP |
Sona Nara
DUST University Ivy League
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
The thing is that WP also give you ISK. I could bring in a DS with a CRU. My friend could spawn into it in a free dropsuit. Straight away he jumps to his death and spawns into the CRU again. He can do this 3 times a minute for the whole match. If it's 25WP like the DU that would be 1500 WP after 20 minutes. Boring game but that's going to be about 300,000 ISK. If you got a squad of 4 friends to do this you'd have 6000 WP.
It's difficult to have a system you can never exploit. You could fix the issues above by putting a time delay before more WP is awarded for the same merc spawning in but if you only fix specific exploits people will find new ones.
I do hope they find a good middle though! I want to see WP from my dropship's CRU! |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
890
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
+10wp for anyone killed whilst under the effects of your active scan. |
Thor Odinson42
Molon Labe. League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink |
|
Cody Sietz
Bullet Cluster
612
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:53:00 -
[11] - Quote
I crash my drop ship all the time and that doesn't give WP.
Explain that with your science... MR.SCIENTISTS! |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1212
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:1) It's very difficult to see somebody repairing a vehicle with remote repair.
They are also impratical and the vehicle version do not rep infantry, i suggest to give a circle of rep around the vehicle when he activate the module (like a triage nanohive), they should repair a fixed amount of HP (total pool) to everybody in their area (both vehicles and infantry) before cool down.
2) Destroying enemy equipment
With the exception of drop-uplinks most of the people don't destroy nano hives.
3) Counter hack
4) Spotting/Scanning
5) MObile CRU
1. This was given before but people exploit by intentionally damaging a vehicle, then repping it. Don't expect it to come back. As for the circle, that is the role of Logi LAV's - they all have this ability inherently (though you do have to lock on to the infantry to do it); but they have to have a separate module to rep vehicles. (I don't think there should be points for vehicles for the above reason, but points for repping infantry should be there to a small degree - it should be less than the repper equipment does though, given that the LLAV is very safe and there is little danger to the driver)
2. I think a very small WP gain for hacking and destroying hives would be a good idea. (perhaps 5 WP's)
3. Counter hack opens the chances of exploits as well; the argument is that this can still be exploited by waiting for the enemy hack to finish first will still get them points is valid, but keep in mind that with a potential spawn timer of 3 seconds, there is a high risk in doing this; there is no risk for a counter hack so there should be little or no reward for htis; I am on the fence on this one.
4. I disagree; I don't think there should be points for this
5. I agree; there should be points for spawning, though perhaps less than for an uplink given this is a safer method, and there is no limit to the number of spawns like there is uplinks (perhaps 10 WP's) |
Zoun Valdrei
Expert Intervention Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 13:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
The only one on the list that bugs me is not getting WP for counter-hacking. I tend to counter-hack anyway, but it'd be nice to get WP for denying an enemy his WP. Maybe just 50? Or even less? I'm not a WP *****, but we should be rewarded for doing something that is so beneficial to our team. |
Big Popa Smurff
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
415
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:01:00 -
[14] - Quote
theres also no WPs for repping tanks with LAV's |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1212
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:02:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink
I disagree - uplinks are limited use; a DS pilot could have up to 150 spawns in a match whereas the uplinks are only like 10. The DS pilots should get less for this, and because it is a safer spawn location than on the ground where reds may be camping. To me WP's should be scaled based on danger or potential danger; the more danger the more points. |
Brolaire of Asstoria
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink I disagree - uplinks are limited use; a DS pilot could have up to 150 spawns in a match whereas the uplinks are only like 10. The DS pilots should get less for this, and because it is a safer spawn location than on the ground where reds may be camping. To me WP's should be scaled based on danger or potential danger; the more danger the more points.
I want to see DS pilots get some loving as much as anyone even though I don't fly myself but any system they put in place would be very susceptible to farming/boosting so they have to be careful how they decide to implement it.
|
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
348
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
If you rep infantry with you remote repair on the LLAV you'll get 50wp instead of the usual 25, but with that module you can't repair vehicles and it's very impratical to use (but that's not the point, remote repair deserve their own post), IMO LLAV aren't meant to repair tanks, but only infantry and other light vehicles, to rep tanks we need a Logi HAV, with a 40Gj turret ( that deserve another post, too), rep vehicles should give wp in my opinion, CCP should nerf the ground , it's almost illogic that tanks take damage when moving on rough terrain, they have caterpillars, the problem is huge because is a game design problem, the ground and every other object in the map is statical and nothing is destroyable, the ground don't sink under our weight and it reflects the damage. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1212
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Brolaire of Asstoria wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink I disagree - uplinks are limited use; a DS pilot could have up to 150 spawns in a match whereas the uplinks are only like 10. The DS pilots should get less for this, and because it is a safer spawn location than on the ground where reds may be camping. To me WP's should be scaled based on danger or potential danger; the more danger the more points. I want to see DS pilots get some loving as much as anyone even though I don't fly myself but any system they put in place would be very susceptible to farming/boosting so they have to be careful how they decide to implement it.
+1 to this, and to be honest changes to any WP gain needs to be carefully evaluated before changes happen. At a minimum, they should consider increasing the WP's required for OB's if they increase the number of ways to earn WP's; they are already pretty easy to get with a full 6 man squad. |
Brolaire of Asstoria
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
48
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:28:00 -
[19] - Quote
The WP for orbitals needs to be increased anyway. 6 man squads can hit it far too easily. |
NIGGSWORM
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
18
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU.
make it 30 |
|
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
470
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink I disagree - uplinks are limited use; a DS pilot could have up to 150 spawns in a match whereas the uplinks are only like 10. The DS pilots should get less for this, and because it is a safer spawn location than on the ground where reds may be camping. To me WP's should be scaled based on danger or potential danger; the more danger the more points. It's not really -that- limited, if I recall correct the T3 DU comes in packs of 2, can have 2 active at once and accommodates 15 spawns per unit for +25 points. That's potentially 750 WP from placing 2 of these at a secure vantage. Lower profile too so can be closer in to hotspots or strategic positions without drawing attention.
At what, 4000 ISK cost at the most for the equipment?
Dropships cost between 600k to 2 million ISK and are highly vulnerable. Also disagree about it being safer than spawning on the ground, it's usually obvious from the map when a DU is compromised or in a poor position.
And frankly if a Dropship can remain in operation around the battlefield to have people spawn in and get to useful positions rapidly they deserve the goddamn points. |
Noc Tempre
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2295
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
Panther Alpha wrote:I think CCP is worrying about WP farming... and rightly so. If that things you talking about are implemented, you will see people with 5000 - 6000 wp by the end of the match.. they could potentially get a couple of orbitals by their own.
Oh no! They might actually get through their weekly cap faster by playing than AFK. The horror. |
Poplo Furuya
Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation
470
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
Brolaire of Asstoria wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink I disagree - uplinks are limited use; a DS pilot could have up to 150 spawns in a match whereas the uplinks are only like 10. The DS pilots should get less for this, and because it is a safer spawn location than on the ground where reds may be camping. To me WP's should be scaled based on danger or potential danger; the more danger the more points. I want to see DS pilots get some loving as much as anyone even though I don't fly myself but any system they put in place would be very susceptible to farming/boosting so they have to be careful how they decide to implement it. Also, in a serious match, this would be a godawful way to boost in order to achieve more orbitals, not that this actually happens in practice in the first place. It requires your team to haemorrhage clones for a few WPs.
Yep, +25 WP per clone. +30 with squad commission.
Awesome, right? |
Daxxis KANNAH
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
256
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Piercing Serenity wrote:A rough fix I had for Orbitals was this:
Disconnect Orbitals from WP - let Eve pilots fire on planets at will with terrible accuracy. Add some in-game instillation that mercs can hack, and let it act as an accuracy modifier for the EVE pilot. Owning this installation/infrastructure lets DUST players bring up the map to call in an orbital strike on a particular point, as normal.
This might let CCP be more loose with giving out WP
There was also a thread where we discussed similar but having the orbital location need to be "painted" and orbitals would have a cooldown time so they couldnt be spammed.
WP needs to be added for whatever actions that should enhance team play to achieve the objectives of winning. Its the only way the developer can actually shape the game.
Look at the whole breaking scanning to put in an active scanner - No WP....handful of people use it and others run around like a chicken with their head cut off until they get into weapon range. |
Vin Mora
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
68
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 14:58:00 -
[25] - Quote
shaman oga wrote: 2) Destroying enemy equipment
3) Counter hack
4) Spotting/Scanning
I do all of this things.
|
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1213
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 15:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Poplo Furuya wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Thor Odinson42 wrote:LT SHANKS wrote:Dropship pilots need WP...
I propose +15 for anyone that enters, whether it be from direct boarding or through a CRU. The mobile CRU should be the same WP as an uplink I disagree - uplinks are limited use; a DS pilot could have up to 150 spawns in a match whereas the uplinks are only like 10. The DS pilots should get less for this, and because it is a safer spawn location than on the ground where reds may be camping. To me WP's should be scaled based on danger or potential danger; the more danger the more points. It's not really -that- limited, if I recall correct the T3 DU comes in packs of 2, can have 2 active at once and accommodates 15 spawns per unit for +25 points. That's potentially 750 WP from placing 2 of these at a secure vantage. Lower profile too so can be closer in to hotspots or strategic positions without drawing attention. At what, 4000 ISK cost at the most for the equipment? Dropships cost between 600k to 2 million ISK and are highly vulnerable. Also disagree about it being safer than spawning on the ground, it's usually obvious from the map when a DU is compromised or in a poor position. And frankly if a Dropship can remain in operation around the battlefield to have people spawn in and get to useful positions rapidly they deserve the goddamn points.
I agree they need points, but I don't think they need as much as an uplink. DS can simply travel to the ceiling and let people jump from there. Very safe place, as swarms and forges can't go that high. Also, strafing runs work out really effectively with a good pilot, and the ship isn't lost on the run. It's when pilots get complacent that they are at risk. On the other hand, uplinks now show on all minimaps just like infantry tags - you no longer need line of site. This means camping is always a very real danger. The DS can move to avoid enemy fire - that is the role of the pilot - and it won't impact the ability to sqawn. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1213
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 15:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I think CCP is worrying about WP farming... and rightly so. If that things you talking about are implemented, you will see people with 5000 - 6000 wp by the end of the match.. they could potentially get a couple of orbitals by their own. Oh no! They might actually get through their weekly cap faster by playing than AFK. The horror.
Noc, if you are going to troll try to make your post relevant at the least. He is talking about orbitals, and not SP. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2484
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 15:37:00 -
[28] - Quote
In instant battles, I'm a WP ***** (I WILL revive you as many times as possible, even if you'll just die again). Elsewhere, I do what helps my team. |
Forlorn Destrier
Bullet Cluster
1213
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 15:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:In instant battles, I'm a WP ***** (I WILL revive you as many times as possible, even if you'll just die again). Elsewhere, I do what helps my team.
I remember the gool ole days when WP's had no purpose, we didn't know what they were for, and there was no way to track how many you got - but dangit we loved seeing Kill +50 even without all of that |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
356
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:04:00 -
[30] - Quote
The best would be: WP= war points LP= logi points
WP: kills, assist, destructions LP: rez, rep, resupply,spawn
Hacking 50% wp & 50% lp
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Panther Alpha
DarkWingsss
766
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Panther Alpha wrote:I think CCP is worrying about WP farming... and rightly so. If that things you talking about are implemented, you will see people with 5000 - 6000 wp by the end of the match.. they could potentially get a couple of orbitals by their own. Oh no! They might actually get through their weekly cap faster by playing than AFK. The horror.
This won't fix AFKing ...it will just make it more elaborate ; The Art Of AFKing, By CCP publications. |
Michael Arck
sephiroth clones D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
398
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 10:42:00 -
[32] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I know, but you understand that in match this thing are usefull, nobody like to be not rewarded for doing his job, maybe they have to implement a separated wp system to reward logistic players and instead of an orbital when you reach 2500 Logi Point you have a 10 second scansion of all the map or another buff.
Says who? Why do you need a "pat on your back" or recognition for doing something that is in the best interest of you and the team? That doesn't make any sense... |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
356
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote:shaman oga wrote:I know, but you understand that in match this thing are usefull, nobody like to be not rewarded for doing his job, maybe they have to implement a separated wp system to reward logistic players and instead of an orbital when you reach 2500 Logi Point you have a 10 second scansion of all the map or another buff. Says who? Why do you need a "pat on your back" or recognition for doing something that is in the best interest of you and the team? That doesn't make any sense... The game is based on rewards, if you don't want to reward useful actions maybe they have to eliminate all the wp system, is that what you suggest? |
The Robot Devil
BetaMax. CRONOS.
777
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:22:00 -
[34] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:I know, but you understand that in match this thing are usefull, nobody like to be not rewarded for doing his job, maybe they have to implement a separated wp system to reward logistic players and instead of an orbital when you reach 2500 Logi Point you have a 10 second scansion of all the map or another buff.
I don't believe every action deserves WP. Do it to win, to better your reputation and pride. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
66
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
I agree that not everything should give WP but the problem comes when you skill into a role that does not give WP e.g Dropshippilots or scouts. Because they get no WP for performing thier role they need to wilder in other roles WP pool but without beeing really suited for that. Thats not right they should be rewarded for doing their job. |
shaman oga
Nexus Balusa Horizon DARKSTAR ARMY
356
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
The Robot Devil wrote: I don't believe every action deserves WP. Do it to win, to better your reputation and pride.
Maybe not every action, but all the 5 point in the OP deserve wp or a separated logi point system. |
Sona Nara
DUST University Ivy League
13
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Michael Arck wrote: Says who? Why do you need a "pat on your back" or recognition for doing something that is in the best interest of you and the team? That doesn't make any sense...
It's not about a "pat on the back". WP are directly related to how much ISK and SP you gain so if you take a route that helps the team without getting many WP you progress much slower than people who spec into WP gaining roles. |
Django Quik
R.I.f.t
1052
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 11:50:00 -
[38] - Quote
CCP told us at fanfest that they were planning on overhauling the WP rewards so that more stuff like you've mentioned would be included but nothing has been mentioned since. This needs looking at or the entire world is just going to think this is nothing but a run of the mill shooter, when it should be so much more and provide for all manner of playstyles. |
Shouper of BHD
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
251
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:07:00 -
[39] - Quote
shaman oga wrote:1) It's very difficult to see somebody repairing a vehicle with remote repair.
They are also impratical and the vehicle version do not rep infantry, i suggest to give a circle of rep around the vehicle when he activate the module (like a triage nanohive), they should repair a fixed amount of HP (total pool) to everybody in their area (both vehicles and infantry) before cool down.
2) Destroying enemy equipment
With the exception of drop-uplinks most of the people don't destroy nano hives.
3) Counter hack
4) Spotting/Scanning
5) MObile CRU
I made a post on triage mechanics last build and 1 of them was like the 1 on top, if you are in the lock on zone and the module was on it auto locked on, this was for balance reasons, and to fix issues like when a pole touched the lighting tether it broke and if the module was still on and you re-enter range (it also 'broke' if you went out of range) it wouldn`t re target and the module would still be going off. from what I`ve seen they just extended the range a bit (I fly triage DS time to time, even for randoms). the shield 1 is noticeable and both have the repping screen animation for the guy getting repped. I would like a infantry based module for triage OR being in a Logi ADV-PRO (this is due to better tech) is adds 15% to shield regulations (for those who don`t know what that is -->) which is how fast your drop suits reacts till it starts healing your drop suits shields. |
Logi Stician
The Vanguardians
79
|
Posted - 2013.07.25 12:45:00 -
[40] - Quote
Sona Nara wrote:The thing is that WP also give you ISK. I could bring in a DS with a CRU. My friend could spawn into it in a free dropsuit. Straight away he jumps to his death and spawns into the CRU again. He can do this 3 times a minute for the whole match. If it's 25WP like the DU that would be 1500 WP after 20 minutes. Boring game but that's going to be about 300,000 ISK. If you got a squad of 4 friends to do this you'd have 6000 WP.
It's difficult to have a system you can never exploit. You could fix the issues above by putting a time delay before more WP is awarded for the same merc spawning in but if you only fix specific exploits people will find new ones.
I do hope they find a good middle though! I want to see WP from my dropship's CRU!
How about making it so that what points that were assigned were only given if the merc who spawned landed on the ground alive? Perhaps to discourage blewburries from just hanging out on the DS, the spawn happens on the DS and the merc is just placed on the closest flat surface beneath the DS. So you wouldn't be on the DS, but on the ground or whatever the DS was above when the merc rejoined battle. This could discourage wp farming by not allowing the DS pilot to hover over the instant death goo or abyss things on the maps, because of the "must be alive to earn points" stipulation.
Thoughts?
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