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Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
28
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Posted - 2013.07.23 19:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Given all the talk flying around the forums for the past few months on proto-stomps and fail matchmaking, I thought I'd share a simple, cost-effective, hard counter to shield-tanked protos. I'm sure a huge number of people have already figured this out, but I didn't see it in the rookie training grounds and if even one new player uses it, I'll consider this post a success.
Disclaimer: This build is a hard counter, meaning that it's not going to do very well or be very effective in any situation other than the one it's designed specifically to deal with. This built is meant for when your random team is getting stomped by two full proto CalLogi squads. You probably won't win, but you sure can keep them from making a profit. It only takes one death for the protobear to be operating at a loss. Make them operate at a loss for long enough, and it'll be impossible to run proto every pub match, evening the playing field.
Don't run this as your main fit, but keep it on hand and don't hesitate to switch to it. Then maybe, one day, we'll see a random team actually put some hurt on Internal Error and similar corporations running full CalLogi protos in random pub matches. If 16 randoms would fit intelligently against the FOTM enemy instead of just trying to DPS down a CalLogi using militia ARs, New Eden would be a very different place.
What you need (ignoring skill pre-reqs for brevity): Grenades I Mass Driver I Nanocircuitry I
This is a very small amount of SP, and anyone should be able to take that much out of their core build in exchange for having a dedicated ISK destroyer and finger-in-eye machine. This requires no fitting skills.
The build: (414 EHP, 5,025 ISK per complete suit) Militia Caldari medium frame with: Mass Driver MLT SMG Flux grenade 2x MLT shield extenders MLT armor plate STD nanohive
The playstyle is simple and effective: Optional beginning: Lure a single greedy proto away from the pack with your tasty-looking MLT suit and wait for him to come at you. 1. Cook a flux and throw it. 1.2k shield damage guarantees that they're now naked. 2. Spam the mass driver in their general direction. It shouldn't take more than 2 splash hits to drop them. It may be 3 or more if they've stacked up armor plates, but then they're moving so slowly that it's easy to chase and land follow up shots. 3. Out of mass driver clip? Swap to the SMG and spray and pray. Ideally, this only happens if you have more than one target. 4. Smile as your opponent loses 200k+ ISK 5. Repeat 1-4 until out of grenades. 6. Stand on a nanohive. 7. GOTO 1
In theory, you could also run this build on higher-tier suit to fit a PLC and go for the 1 shot splash kill after the flux, though the MD's RoF makes it more reliable.
Testimonials? Thoughts? Improvements? |
Ansiiis The Trustworthy
WE ARE LEGENDS
176
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Posted - 2013.07.23 19:36:00 -
[2] - Quote
You do realise that the Cal logi will kill you before you can use the MD |
Muud Kipz
Elevated Technologies
29
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Posted - 2013.07.23 20:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:You do realise that the Cal logi will kill you before you can use the MD
Well obviously you don't just stand in front of them cooking the flux Both MD and nades have drop and splash damage, you should be shooting around corners, over hills, and behind cover. Dodge with bunny hops the moment they get DPS on you. FFS, you've still got to actually play! This fit, however, gives you a chance to do actual damage, instead of uselessly praying that you can get 2.5 perfectly on-target seconds of uninterrupted militia AR DPS before they fill your face with plasma, which is how most pubbies seem to respond to proto stomps. That's how we get ambushes where one team finishes the match with 40+ clones remaining. |
KR-91N
Intara Direct Action Caldari State
26
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Posted - 2013.07.24 00:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Basically you have to land your flux grenade or its GG. |
Awry Barux
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
3
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Posted - 2013.07.24 17:39:00 -
[5] - Quote
KR-91N wrote:Basically you have to land your flux grenade or its GG.
No, really? You're saying I have to actually use my weapons and hit with them in order to win in a FPS? I had no idea. I thought everyone within 20 meters of me would just die on their own.
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL EoN.
50
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Posted - 2013.07.25 19:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Flux + anything will typically kill a proto user. Just make sure your flux hits.
Unfortunately most new players still use locus :/ |
Sladen Faust
XCUTI0N
0
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Posted - 2013.07.25 21:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
i agree. This tactic might even work if your sneaky enough and drop death from above. If your shots connect and they panic. You might get the whole group or do enough damage for the team to take them out with less effort ( Remember dust is team based lol ). As not all Proto users have gun game. Also I'm sure a full squad of these would be devastating in general for cheap. |
BARDAS
DUST University Ivy League
227
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Posted - 2013.07.25 22:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Remote explosives work great in those situations. 1500 damage = dead no matter what type of suit you are packing. I like to lay down a nice field and then lure someone into chasing me. I mean who doesn't want to squash the supposedly easy to kill Scout for a few more shiny WP's? Oh look he is running away let me give chase... *BOOM* WTF?!?!? *me: sucker!* moves onto next protobear... rinse, repeat...profit! |
Sladen Faust
XCUTI0N
0
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:18:00 -
[9] - Quote
BARDAS wrote:Remote explosives work great in those situations. 1500 damage = dead no matter what type of suit you are packing. I like to lay down a nice field and then lure someone into chasing me. I mean who doesn't want to squash the supposedly easy to kill Scout for a few more shiny WP's? Oh look he is running away let me give chase... *BOOM* WTF?!?!? *me: sucker!* moves onto next protobear... rinse, repeat...profit!
Amen to that.
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
806
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:21:00 -
[10] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:
Testimonials? Thoughts? Improvements?
+1 for spotlighting the MD. I want it nerfed again so i can be an oddity wielding the freedom. all these MD imposters are stealing my thunder |
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Sladen Faust
XCUTI0N
0
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Posted - 2013.07.25 23:32:00 -
[11] - Quote
Also the one thing you should be is creative. Remotes is just one of many. A well timed squad cooked flux n locus combo will also take out tight proto squads with minimum effort.
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8213
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
40
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Posted - 2013.07.26 23:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'm a prototype. But I usually run standard gear for the "sport" of it.
I'll tell you right now, flux grenades are a nuisance, and ineffective. People think they are the secret weapon of DUST but they aren't. Best defense against a prototype and stick with a group of teammates, shoot at anything (play for assists, not kills), and max out your HP as much as possible. What makes a prototype most effective is that they usually have more HP than you, and eventually you get wore down before them. |
Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
21
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Posted - 2013.07.28 04:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:Given all the talk flying around the forums for the past few months on proto-stomps and fail matchmaking, I thought I'd share a simple, cost-effective, hard counter to shield-tanked protos. I'm sure a huge number of people have already figured this out, but I didn't see it in the rookie training grounds and if even one new player uses it, I'll consider this post a success.
Disclaimer: This build is a hard counter, meaning that it's not going to do very well or be very effective in any situation other than the one it's designed specifically to deal with. This built is meant for when your random team is getting stomped by two full proto CalLogi squads. You probably won't win, but you sure can keep them from making a profit. It only takes one death for the protobear to be operating at a loss. Make them operate at a loss for long enough, and it'll be impossible to run proto every pub match, evening the playing field.
Don't run this as your main fit, but keep it on hand and don't hesitate to switch to it. Then maybe, one day, we'll see a random team actually put some hurt on Internal Error and similar corporations running full CalLogi protos in random pub matches. If 16 randoms would fit intelligently against the FOTM enemy instead of just trying to DPS down a CalLogi using militia ARs, New Eden would be a very different place.
What you need (ignoring skill pre-reqs for brevity): Grenades I Mass Driver I Nanocircuitry I
This is a very small amount of SP, and anyone should be able to take that much out of their core build in exchange for having a dedicated ISK destroyer and finger-in-eye machine. This requires no fitting skills.
The build: (414 EHP, 5,025 ISK per complete suit) Militia Caldari medium frame with: Mass Driver MLT SMG Flux grenade 2x MLT shield extenders MLT armor plate STD nanohive
The playstyle is simple and effective: Optional beginning: Lure a single greedy proto away from the pack with your tasty-looking MLT suit and wait for him to come at you. 1. Cook a flux and throw it. 1.2k shield damage guarantees that they're now naked. 2. Spam the mass driver in their general direction. It shouldn't take more than 2 splash hits to drop them. It may be 3 or more if they've stacked up armor plates, but then they're moving so slowly that it's easy to chase and land follow up shots. 3. Out of mass driver clip? Swap to the SMG and spray and pray. Ideally, this only happens if you have more than one target. 4. Smile as your opponent loses 200k+ ISK 5. Repeat 1-4 until out of grenades. 6. Stand on a nanohive. 7. GOTO 1
In theory, you could also run this build on higher-tier suit to fit a PLC and go for the 1 shot splash kill after the flux, though the MD's RoF makes it more reliable.
Testimonials? Thoughts? Improvements?
like the idea. I'd recommend buying the merc pack, use the dranfly assault suit, a second armor plate, and switch the smg to an adv flaylock pistol. need to sink more sp into the flaylock pistol, but the fl pis has longer range and high splash damage. Need to aim a bit better than the md, but splash damage is twice.
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Thang Bausch
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
21
|
Posted - 2013.07.28 04:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sladen Faust wrote:BARDAS wrote:Remote explosives work great in those situations. 1500 damage = dead no matter what type of suit you are packing. I like to lay down a nice field and then lure someone into chasing me. I mean who doesn't want to squash the supposedly easy to kill Scout for a few more shiny WP's? Oh look he is running away let me give chase... *BOOM* WTF?!?!? *me: sucker!* moves onto next protobear... rinse, repeat...profit! Amen to that.
i was in a match once where a scout with a low profile sneaked into a bunch of us (around 5), dropped a few remote explosives and then blew us all up with one go. He did it twice. bloody brilliant. shocked I haven't seen it again. |
hgghyujh
Expert Intervention Caldari State
57
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Posted - 2013.07.28 09:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
8213 wrote:I'm a prototype. But I usually run standard gear for the "sport" of it.
I'll tell you right now, flux grenades are a nuisance, and ineffective. People think they are the secret weapon of DUST but they aren't. Best defense against a prototype and stick with a group of teammates, shoot at anything (play for assists, not kills), and max out your HP as much as possible. What makes a prototype most effective is that they usually have more HP than you, and eventually you get wore down before them.
its not a replacement for good team play and not an I win button(it actualy takes a lot of skill and practice) but the flux against CK.0 is devastating for the SP/ISK investment and is really the only way to play against a good CK.0 player if you are not in pro gear your self, 6 mlt/std suits against 1 skilled CK.0 and the 6 might as well be spitting at him(the exception to this would be a quality squad that has good timing and rotation but even then 6/2 and it would be game over with out a flux). |
Blake Kingston
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
24
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Posted - 2013.08.02 02:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Awry Barux wrote:KR-91N wrote:Basically you have to land your flux grenade or its GG. No, really? You're saying I have to actually use my weapons and hit with them in order to win in a FPS? I had no idea. I thought everyone within 20 meters of me would just die on their own. No wae, you totally sold this as an I win button! Totally! Wait no, you didn't...u good! :) |
Quil Evrything
Skil Legendz
3
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 00:11:00 -
[17] - Quote
Thang Bausch wrote: i was in a match once where a scout with a low profile sneaked into a bunch of us (around 5), dropped a few remote explosives and then blew us all up with one go. He did it twice. bloody brilliant. shocked I haven't seen it again.
niice.
So... what's the trick to optimizing scout sneak, other than the obvious damping modules?
Do you have to avoid running? Do you need to crouch, or you'll be heard?
Was it a round-the-corner sneak thing, or relatively in the open?
|
jingle wingle
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
13
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 07:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
Quil Evrything wrote:Thang Bausch wrote: i was in a match once where a scout with a low profile sneaked into a bunch of us (around 5), dropped a few remote explosives and then blew us all up with one go. He did it twice. bloody brilliant. shocked I haven't seen it again.
niice. So... what's the trick to optimizing scout sneak, other than the obvious damping modules? Do you have to avoid running? Do you need to crouch, or you'll be heard? Was it a round-the-corner sneak thing, or relatively in the open? According to CCP, currently actions have no effect on scan/sensor etc. Whether they can hear you is another thing though. |
XxGhazbaranxX
Bannana Boat Corp
286
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 12:17:00 -
[19] - Quote
The only counter against proto is cover and GTFO. If you are a newb, take lots of cover and dont be an ass. I'm tired of people playing this game just standing still unloading at each other to see who kills the other first without so much as moving.
Second. Follow someone and when they engage a proto try and get behind the proto or put a nano down and lob grenades at the SOB.
Third; spare some points in remote explosives, most protos are overly confident and tend to look down at regular intervals very little. Put them in corners and wait, when someone turns that corner Blow him up. This will not necessarily catch a proto but it might and you will get the odd double and triple kill ^^.
Fourth; proto stompers feel good about killing you. they are sadist who prefer to torture your team by going into the red line and killing you. Remote explosives are at their best here.
Fifth: always have a squad. when you enter each battle get into a squad; if you get kicked choose another. This is a great way to meet friends and Blow stuff up together.
The lone gunman in this game perishes with a fizzle and not a bang. |
Quil Evrything
Skil Legendz
4
|
Posted - 2013.08.20 16:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Some sad things, some happy things:
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:
Fourth; proto stompers feel good about killing you. they are sadist who prefer to torture your team by going into the red line and killing you.
Dont need a proto suit for that. a LAV works REALLY well. Lots of fun to be had there :D
Quote: Fifth: always have a squad. when you enter each battle get into a squad; if you get kicked choose another. This is a great way to meet friends and Blow stuff up together.
Sadly, my experience has been counter-indicative of this. most squads I randonly joined.. ended up being poeple acting randomly. zero communication from either the squad leader or anyone else. So I ended up not joining squads any more.
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