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J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
242
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Posted - 2013.07.23 11:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:8213 wrote:I direct hit with a Proto Flaylock caused me 560+ damage... the fact is: its a secondary, no secondary should be able to be a one-hit-kill. Scrambler and Bolt pistols say "Hi"
Hey Cosgar, what's your opinion on having pistols be DUST's "noob-tubes"? One for each race, each works differently but generally easy and rewarding to use.
Low skill to high power ratio weapons which work well with high mobility suits (to make up for the lack of range), but are generally out-performed by more skill requiring alternatives (for instance the SMG). |
THEAMAZING POTHEAD
Pure Innocence.
86
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 11:38:00 -
[32] - Quote
Made an alt for the flaylock. Got it to level 4, was using the GN. All militia gear but dual GN flaylocks. Went 30+ in the academy easily for a few matches, graduated. Went 15-25 kills with single digit deaths everytime in a few instant battles. Deleted that abomination character. The thing is ridiculous & OP as f***, if you cant r@pe hard with even the ADV one, then u blow at video games most likely. Needs some serious rebalancing. |
superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
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Posted - 2013.07.23 11:43:00 -
[33] - Quote
No sidearm should one shot you. Whats the sidearm rules my friends. I didn't know that a sidearm couldn't one shot you. Who said that it couldn't. The flaylock doesnt have near the range of the MD. It only holds 3 in a clip. I don't know why ppl cant quit crying and why the devs even bother to listen to you guys. I will come on here crying now. Sniff Sniff whaaaaaaa I want 120 clones in clone packs for PC cause we lost . Sniffle whaaaaaa Forge Guns have too much blast radius whaaaaaa. Snipers suck so bad. Sniff I need a tissue. OK whaaaaaa please nerf flaylocks cause I cant learn how to press my jump button in a sci fi shooter. I want to play Battlefield whaaaaaaaaa. Do all this stuff cause I cried like a little sissy baby and please let my auto AR still shoot crazy distances with no recoil. CCP realize please most ppl run auto ARs again and guess why that is. Its because you keep nerfing everything that can contend with them. Guess its back to getting AR rifled and then SMGed to death. Probably by Caldari suits because that's just the way it seems to be in this game. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3486
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 11:46:00 -
[34] - Quote
THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote:Made an alt for the flaylock. Got it to level 4, was using the GN. All militia gear but dual GN flaylocks. Went 30+ in the academy easily for a few matches, graduated. Went 15-25 kills with single digit deaths everytime in a few instant battles. Deleted that abomination character. The thing is ridiculous & OP as f***, if you cant r@pe hard with even the ADV one, then u blow at video games most likely. Needs some serious rebalancing. It's better balanced than the Core flaylock, which is why I suggested a ROF nerf. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3487
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 11:48:00 -
[35] - Quote
superjoe360x wrote:No sidearm should one shot you. Whats the sidearm rules my friends. I didn't know that a sidearm couldn't one shot you. Who said that it couldn't. The flaylock doesnt have near the range of the MD. It only holds 3 in a clip. I don't know why ppl cant quit crying and why the devs even bother to listen to you guys. I will come on here crying now. Sniff Sniff whaaaaaaa I want 120 clones in clone packs for PC cause we lost . Sniffle whaaaaaa Forge Guns have too much blast radius whaaaaaa. Snipers suck so bad. Sniff I need a tissue. OK whaaaaaa please nerf flaylocks cause I cant learn how to press my jump button in a sci fi shooter. I want to play Battlefield whaaaaaaaaa. Do all this stuff cause I cried like a little sissy baby and please let my auto AR still shoot crazy distances with no recoil. CCP realize please most ppl run auto ARs again and guess why that is. Its because you keep nerfing everything that can contend with them. Guess its back to getting AR rifled and then SMGed to death. Probably by Caldari suits because that's just the way it seems to be in this game. Saying it's fine without explaining it and calling us whiners while we have proper explanation as to why it IS OP... Hmm... I wonder who to believe.... |
superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
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Posted - 2013.07.23 11:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Also take it away because it is a good gun to use from above if you use good tactics and find a good spot. People just cant use the no tactic bum rush method all the time. Where you only use 1/8th the map They actually have to have tactics and take some time to come and get you or find a spot to kill you and that would take way too many brain cells. Ill tell you what CCP listen to some of these ppl and you can just give everyone a Caldari suit with a Duvolle auto AR and an SMG and half your players would still play because that's what they use. Hell you could make that for my cell phone couldn't you. We would need no skills. |
superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:09:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:superjoe360x wrote:No sidearm should one shot you. Whats the sidearm rules my friends. I didn't know that a sidearm couldn't one shot you. Who said that it couldn't. The flaylock doesnt have near the range of the MD. It only holds 3 in a clip. I don't know why ppl cant quit crying and why the devs even bother to listen to you guys. I will come on here crying now. Sniff Sniff whaaaaaaa I want 120 clones in clone packs for PC cause we lost . Sniffle whaaaaaa Forge Guns have too much blast radius whaaaaaa. Snipers suck so bad. Sniff I need a tissue. OK whaaaaaa please nerf flaylocks cause I cant learn how to press my jump button in a sci fi shooter. I want to play Battlefield whaaaaaaaaa. Do all this stuff cause I cried like a little sissy baby and please let my auto AR still shoot crazy distances with no recoil. CCP realize please most ppl run auto ARs again and guess why that is. Its because you keep nerfing everything that can contend with them. Guess its back to getting AR rifled and then SMGed to death. Probably by Caldari suits because that's just the way it seems to be in this game. Saying it's fine without explaining it and calling us whiners while we have proper explanation as to why it IS OP... Hmm... I wonder who to believe.... Guess what Cat whatever. There will always be that overpowered gun. Nerf one then you have something else again right. Im just saying the flaylock pisses ppl off because of skilled users. Im sorry that you cant hit your jump button Cat whatever. If you get killed by a noob with a flaylock then you shouldn't be typing anything on here. You should be practicing in game because you need it. I haven't been killed by a flaylock more then 20 times since they came out. Now forge guns and mass drivers yeah. Auto ARs hell yeah. You don't have to give ppl data to understand how something works Cat Cat. Im there playing all the time too. Im not crying about them. Slightly OP yes but not as much as you guys act like it is. You just want to be safe again with what suits you best.
You are on here fighting for what you like by trying to murder a gun that you don't have tactics to avoid. Im on here fighting for a actual cool sidearm to stay good and still be used in this game. Do you really want it to go back to just scrambler pistols and smgs. Boring when compared to that mini missile sound. I do just as good using my SMG but the flaylock is way more fun.
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Cosgar
ParagonX
3072
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
J-Lewis wrote:Cosgar wrote:8213 wrote:I direct hit with a Proto Flaylock caused me 560+ damage... the fact is: its a secondary, no secondary should be able to be a one-hit-kill. Scrambler and Bolt pistols say "Hi" Hey Cosgar, what's your opinion on having pistols be DUST's "noob-tubes"? One for each race, each works differently but generally easy and rewarding to use. Low skill to high power ratio weapons which work well with high mobility suits (to make up for the lack of range), but are generally out-performed by more skill requiring alternatives (for instance the SMG). We already have this. Just about all the sidearms out DPS light weapons. I'd rather see the Plasma Cannon become an actual n00b tube. Buff all the variants' damage, make it easier to use, and slap a militia variant on the anti-armor starter fit. New players or ones not used to FPS get a fighting chance while veterans and good FPS players will use better weapons and tactics. Of course this means the plasma cannon will be the most hated weapon in the game, but for anyone with sense, they'll know it's a necessity and will have full nerf immunity. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
FYI Max damage from a single flaylock round is: Direct hit: 239.8 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 361.1 Splash: 214.5 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 323.8
If you're only hitting armour then +20% for: Direct: 433.32 Splash: 388.56
This include max proficiency and 5 stacking penalised damage mods (according to eve wiki). The 20% for armour is from the weapon profile/range dev blog.
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superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
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Posted - 2013.07.23 12:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Garth Mandra wrote:FYI Max damage from a single flaylock round is: Direct hit: 239.8 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 361.1 Splash: 214.5 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 323.8
If you're only hitting armour then +20% for: Direct: 433.32 Splash: 388.56
This include max proficiency and 5 stacking penalised damage mods (according to eve wiki). The 20% for armour is from the weapon profile/range dev blog.
Damage mods are another topic. Nerf them to 5, 3 and 2 percent and that would help this game a whole lot. |
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Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3488
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:35:00 -
[41] - Quote
superjoe360x wrote:Cat Merc wrote:superjoe360x wrote:No sidearm should one shot you. Whats the sidearm rules my friends. I didn't know that a sidearm couldn't one shot you. Who said that it couldn't. The flaylock doesnt have near the range of the MD. It only holds 3 in a clip. I don't know why ppl cant quit crying and why the devs even bother to listen to you guys. I will come on here crying now. Sniff Sniff whaaaaaaa I want 120 clones in clone packs for PC cause we lost . Sniffle whaaaaaa Forge Guns have too much blast radius whaaaaaa. Snipers suck so bad. Sniff I need a tissue. OK whaaaaaa please nerf flaylocks cause I cant learn how to press my jump button in a sci fi shooter. I want to play Battlefield whaaaaaaaaa. Do all this stuff cause I cried like a little sissy baby and please let my auto AR still shoot crazy distances with no recoil. CCP realize please most ppl run auto ARs again and guess why that is. Its because you keep nerfing everything that can contend with them. Guess its back to getting AR rifled and then SMGed to death. Probably by Caldari suits because that's just the way it seems to be in this game. Saying it's fine without explaining it and calling us whiners while we have proper explanation as to why it IS OP... Hmm... I wonder who to believe.... Guess what Cat whatever. There will always be that overpowered gun. Nerf one then you have something else again right. Im just saying the flaylock pisses ppl off because of skilled users. Im sorry that you cant hit your jump button Cat whatever. If you get killed by a noob with a flaylock then you shouldn't be typing anything on here. You should be practicing in game because you need it. I haven't been killed by a flaylock more then 20 times since they came out. Now forge guns and mass drivers yeah. Auto ARs hell yeah. You don't have to give ppl data to understand how something works Cat Cat. Im there playing all the time too. Im not crying about them. Slightly OP yes but not as much as you guys act like it is. You just want to be safe again with what suits you best. You are on here fighting for what you like by trying to murder a gun that you don't have tactics to avoid. Im on here fighting for a actual cool sidearm to stay good and still be used in this game. Do you really want it to go back to just scrambler pistols and smgs. Boring when compared to that mini missile sound. I do just as good using my SMG but the flaylock is way more fun. There are no tactics to avoid it. 2.5m splash radius is more than your jump height, you still get the full force of the attack. Call those skill players whatever, anyone can pick up a flaylock and do incredible. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
3072
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:37:00 -
[42] - Quote
superjoe360x wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:FYI Max damage from a single flaylock round is: Direct hit: 239.8 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 361.1 Splash: 214.5 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 323.8
If you're only hitting armour then +20% for: Direct: 433.32 Splash: 388.56
This include max proficiency and 5 stacking penalised damage mods (according to eve wiki). The 20% for armour is from the weapon profile/range dev blog.
Damage mods are another topic. Nerf them to 5, 3 and 2 percent and that would help this game a whole lot. Damage mods are fine. They're the only advantage armor tankers have over shields right now because shields have to give up their tank to use them. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3488
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 12:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:superjoe360x wrote:Garth Mandra wrote:FYI Max damage from a single flaylock round is: Direct hit: 239.8 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 361.1 Splash: 214.5 * 1.15 * 1.313 = 323.8
If you're only hitting armour then +20% for: Direct: 433.32 Splash: 388.56
This include max proficiency and 5 stacking penalised damage mods (according to eve wiki). The 20% for armour is from the weapon profile/range dev blog.
Damage mods are another topic. Nerf them to 5, 3 and 2 percent and that would help this game a whole lot. Damage mods are fine. They're the only advantage armor tankers have over shields right now because shields have to give up their tank to use them. Heck someone did the math, shield extender > damage mod. |
J-Lewis
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
242
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 14:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:J-Lewis wrote:Cosgar wrote:8213 wrote:I direct hit with a Proto Flaylock caused me 560+ damage... the fact is: its a secondary, no secondary should be able to be a one-hit-kill. Scrambler and Bolt pistols say "Hi" Hey Cosgar, what's your opinion on having pistols be DUST's "noob-tubes"? One for each race, each works differently but generally easy and rewarding to use. Low skill to high power ratio weapons which work well with high mobility suits (to make up for the lack of range), but are generally out-performed by more skill requiring alternatives (for instance the SMG). We already have this. Just about all the sidearms out DPS light weapons. I'd rather see the Plasma Cannon become an actual n00b tube. Buff all the variants' damage, make it easier to use, and slap a militia variant on the anti-armor starter fit. New players or ones not used to FPS get a fighting chance while veterans and good FPS players will use better weapons and tactics. Of course this means the plasma cannon will be the most hated weapon in the game, but for anyone with sense, they'll know it's a necessity and will have full nerf immunity.
That's an option too. However, the classic Noob Tube is generally an attachment or secondary weapon, to not discourage use of the primary; so perhaps a single shot, AOE focused, damage on contact, anti infantry sidearm? Hell, make them replace contact grenades (**** contact grenades)!
We'd be talking weapons that deal decent burst damage but have poor sustained DPS. So we're talking perhaps 125-175 damage and a splash of 2-4 meters with one shot per mag. Not enough damage to outright kill anything (bar an untanked scout perhaps), but enough to weaken or finish off an enemy.
Note: I'm only insisting on it not being the PLC because the PLC is not only a light weapon, it is also supposedly meant as an anti vehicle weapon (I know it's a joke ATM). It's not something new players should be using IMO.
Here are some example weapons; damage is the same for direct hit and splash:
Amarr Thunderclap Projector: Emits a cone of electricity which arcs onto all targets within 4 meters of the one closest to your cross-hairs. 125 DMG 4 m AOE 20 m range hit-scan weapon (no need to compensate for gravity or travel time) 1 shot per mag
Caldari Scourge Launcher: Launches a guided missile with slight homing capabilities which accelerates over time. 150 DMG 2 m AOE 30 m range missile weapon (~2 second flight time, slight correction for gravity needed) 1 shot per mag
Gallente Blaze Cannon: Lobs a plasma bomb. The plasma lingers for a few seconds after the initial explosion, during which time it deals 25 damage/second to anyone within its area of effect. 175 DMG 2 m AOE 15 m range plasma weapon (Faster than the PLC, heavy trajectory curve) 1 shot per mag
Minmatar Fracture Gun: Fires a volatile grenade which explodes on contact. 150 DMG 3 m AOE 25 m range grenade launcher (Faster than the Mass driver, medium trajectory curve) 1 shot per mag
All weapons become 100% ineffective beyond their ranges; either self destructing or dissipating.
These are just examples; I think they're interesting. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
2463
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 15:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
I have the advanced flaylock, and advanced SMG- I prefer to use the SMG.
There is no way that flaylocks are easier to use than SMGs- I just strafe, spray, and win with the SMG. |
superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 19:57:00 -
[46] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:superjoe360x wrote:Cat Merc wrote:[quote=superjoe360x]No sidearm should one shot you. Whats the sidearm rules my friends. I didn't know that a sidearm couldn't one shot you. Who said that it couldn't. The flaylock doesnt have near the range of the MD. It only holds 3 in a clip. I don't know why ppl cant quit crying and why the devs even bother to listen to you guys. I will come on here crying now. Sniff Sniff whaaaaaaa I want 120 clones in clone packs for PC cause we lost . Sniffle whaaaaaa Forge Guns have too much blast radius whaaaaaa. Snipers suck so bad. Sniff I need a tissue. OK whaaaaaa please nerf flaylocks cause I cant learn how to press my jump button in a sci fi shooter. I want to play Battlefield whaaaaaaaaa. Do all this stuff cause I cried like a little sissy baby and please let my auto AR still shoot crazy distances with no recoil. CCP realize please most ppl run auto ARs again and guess why that is. Its because you keep nerfing everything that can contend with them. Guess its back to getting AR rifled and then SMGed to death. Probably by Caldari suits because that's just the way it seems to be in this game. Saying it's fine without explaining it and calling us whiners while we have proper explanation as to why it IS OP... Hmm... I wonder who to believe.... Guess what Cat whatever. There will always be that overpowered gun. Nerf one then you have something else again right. Im just saying the flaylock pisses ppl off because of skilled users. Im sorry that you cant hit your jump button Cat whatever. If you get killed by a noob with a flaylock then you shouldn't be typing anything on here. You should be practicing in game because you need it. I haven't been killed by a flaylock more then 20 times since they came out. Now forge guns and mass drivers yeah. Auto ARs hell yeah. You don't have to give ppl data to understand how something works Cat Cat. Im there playing all the time too. Im not crying about them. Slightly OP yes but not as much as you guys act like it is. You just want to be safe again with what suits you best. You are on here fighting for what you like by trying to murder a gun that you don't have tactics to avoid. Im on here fighting for a actual cool sidearm to stay good and still be used in this game. Do you really want it to go back to just scrambler pistols and smgs. Boring when compared to that mini missile sound. I do just as good using my SMG but the flaylock is way more fun. There are no tactics to avoid it. 2.5m splash radius is more than your jump height, you still get the full force of the attack. Call those skill players whatever, anyone can pick up a flaylock and do incredible.[/quote The damage can be minimized. Jump on a rail or on a hump. Gain a slight height advantage. I do agree with you on noobs using it up close and just shooting the ground. |
superjoe360x
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
24
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
[quote=Scheneighnay McBob]I have the advanced flaylock, and advanced SMG- I prefer to use the SMG.
There is no way that flaylocks are easier to use than SMGs- I just strafe, spray, and win with the SMG.[/quote
Finally somebody that realizes that the smg is still used more. It is still very powerful. Right now you have a blend of sidearms. Nerf the flaylock and you go back to smg wars. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3511
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 20:17:00 -
[48] - Quote
superjoe360x wrote:[quote=Scheneighnay McBob]I have the advanced flaylock, and advanced SMG- I prefer to use the SMG.
There is no way that flaylocks are easier to use than SMGs- I just strafe, spray, and win with the SMG.[/quote
Finally somebody that realizes that the smg is still used more. It is still very powerful. Right now you have a blend of sidearms. Nerf the flaylock and you go back to smg wars. SMG is the assault rifle of sidearms. The rest are niche. |
Ghost Kaisar
Intrepidus XI EoN.
181
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 22:00:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:superjoe360x wrote:[quote=Scheneighnay McBob]I have the advanced flaylock, and advanced SMG- I prefer to use the SMG.
There is no way that flaylocks are easier to use than SMGs- I just strafe, spray, and win with the SMG.[/quote
Finally somebody that realizes that the smg is still used more. It is still very powerful. Right now you have a blend of sidearms. Nerf the flaylock and you go back to smg wars. SMG is the assault rifle of sidearms. The rest are niche.
Very true, The SMG rewards accuracy with an AMAZING DPS. However, I like the fact my GN-13 Specialist is both cheap (CPU/PG wise) and very effective as a finisher. I run Shotgun and Flaylock at the moment, and I still use the Shotgun a majority of the time. I use the flaylock to quickly kill weakened enemies (already wounded) or just as a last resort weapon when my Shotty has to reload. Combined with a flux, the ADV variant is deadly if you are skilled in its use.
TL;DR The ADV flaylock is fine. PRO has WAY to much splash damage. I think they should make the Splash Damage universal across the board at 1.25m and make it so that 1.75m is the MAX with the skill bonuses. This would make the ADV variant the current Proto (roughly) and all other versions still viable (unlike the basic flaylock which is horrible). A ROF nerf would be unnecessary because with 3 rounds, you need to kill your target FAST and then run the heck away. |
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