DUST Search - CCP- watch this video made by CEOPryex

Cosgar wrote:

Killar-12 wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:

In my honest opinion I'd like to say that you misinterpret the lecture on powercreep. CCP didn't make AV strong because they wanted to do a quick job of it. They made it so because a person who has speced into tanks wouldn't hold more power than their infantry friends. Dust isn't an MMO like WOW and there aren't simply enough content so that CCP would use the easy button and give players pure power instead of creative ideas. How would they had run out of ideas if they haven't released the third of the content they have planned?

You're missing the point. Dust is suffering from power creep because of several reasons. One of which is that we're all in a situation where prototype equipment is so much better than everything else and so accessible, that you have to use it, just to keep up with everyone else. Suits are cheaper than what they were in Chrome and we're all swimming in ISK. Also, with the skill tree being so linear, you're pretty much limited to one suit frame and one weapon. But with such a sufficient gap between standard, advanced and prototype or no incentive to be versatile while being somewhat effective against an army or prototype, everyone is rooted to one suit frame, and usually one weapon making the game stale.

EVE stays fresh because there's so many different incomparables through how the ships aren't flat out better than each other, but rather offer different options and bonuses. Also the skill system is set up in a way that you're not on a linear path and can branch off freely without sacrificing effectiveness. In Dust we have STD, ADV, and PRO suits, which creates a ladder of power that you're encouraged to climb and once you get to the top, the lower rungs of the ladder are all but useless. Why use STD or ADV suits when you have access to PRO? Weapons and modules at least force to to pick and choose what to use because they're limited by CPU/PG costs, prototype suits can be spammed, does get spammed, and without incomparables to add value to STD/ADV, will continue to be spammed. At least that's the way I see it.

Refund then increase Proto Gear Price?

Proto should be flat out more expensive, but ISK shouldn't be the only balancing factor. I'd say take the stats/slots that prototype has and give those to all the suit tiers so they all have the same stats. Then make each tier offer more bonuses in one direction, while giving up slots or stats in another. Like for example, lets say the ADV Minmatar logi his faster, has more stamina/regen than the STD variant, but at the cost of one equipment slot. One suit wouldn't be better than the other in that aspect because the ADV suit would be better in one situation while the STD isn't completely devalued. Basically what I'm getting at is to find a way to reincorportate the T-1, T-2, A-Series and B-Series suit system we had in Chrome into standard, advanced, and prototype to make each tier different, instead of more powerful than the other.
I should probably make a topic on this, huh?


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J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 239	Posted - 2013.07.22 22:41:00 - [1] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: His point on the inability to switch up gameplay is really good though. It's the reason why a lot of people are quitting and why ill probably end up burning out here soon too. This is the exact reason I've been ranting about the dropsuit progression skill tree. If you HAVE TO GO THROUGH every suit size to reach Heavy, you avoid feeling left out when someone tells you to go Medium or Light, because you already have those skills. And if Assault is the new meta, then you've already got Medium dropsuits 3, enough to play a quasi assault role in a basic medium frame suit. Oh gosh, then everyone trains everything on their main? EXACTLY. The only question is what order you train things in; exact same dilemma as EVE pilots experience, except they get over 200 ships to choose from while we have barely a dozen suits and vehicles. It's time for DUST to learn why EVE's systems work. It's all fine and dandy to want to make something different, but you can't break or bend the rules if you don't know them to begin with. And by Jove, DUST seems to have no idea why EVE works. We're reinventing the wheel without knowing what a wheel looks like.
J-Lewis Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 242	Posted - 2013.07.23 07:54:00 - [2] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Killar-12 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: In my honest opinion I'd like to say that you misinterpret the lecture on powercreep. CCP didn't make AV strong because they wanted to do a quick job of it. They made it so because a person who has speced into tanks wouldn't hold more power than their infantry friends. Dust isn't an MMO like WOW and there aren't simply enough content so that CCP would use the easy button and give players pure power instead of creative ideas. How would they had run out of ideas if they haven't released the third of the content they have planned? You're missing the point. Dust is suffering from power creep because of several reasons. One of which is that we're all in a situation where prototype equipment is so much better than everything else and so accessible, that you have to use it, just to keep up with everyone else. Suits are cheaper than what they were in Chrome and we're all swimming in ISK. Also, with the skill tree being so linear, you're pretty much limited to one suit frame and one weapon. But with such a sufficient gap between standard, advanced and prototype or no incentive to be versatile while being somewhat effective against an army or prototype, everyone is rooted to one suit frame, and usually one weapon making the game stale. EVE stays fresh because there's so many different incomparables through how the ships aren't flat out better than each other, but rather offer different options and bonuses. Also the skill system is set up in a way that you're not on a linear path and can branch off freely without sacrificing effectiveness. In Dust we have STD, ADV, and PRO suits, which creates a ladder of power that you're encouraged to climb and once you get to the top, the lower rungs of the ladder are all but useless. Why use STD or ADV suits when you have access to PRO? Weapons and modules at least force to to pick and choose what to use because they're limited by CPU/PG costs, prototype suits can be spammed, does get spammed, and without incomparables to add value to STD/ADV, will continue to be spammed. At least that's the way I see it. Refund then increase Proto Gear Price? Proto should be flat out more expensive, but ISK shouldn't be the only balancing factor. I'd say take the stats/slots that prototype has and give those to all the suit tiers so they all have the same stats. Then make each tier offer more bonuses in one direction, while giving up slots or stats in another. Like for example, lets say the ADV Minmatar logi his faster, has more stamina/regen than the STD variant, but at the cost of one equipment slot. One suit wouldn't be better than the other in that aspect because the ADV suit would be better in one situation while the STD isn't completely devalued. Basically what I'm getting at is to find a way to reincorportate the T-1, T-2, A-Series and B-Series suit system we had in Chrome into standard, advanced, and prototype to make each tier different, instead of more powerful than the other. I should probably make a topic on this, huh? Why not just port the tech system direct from EVE? Get rid of suit and weapon tiers (STD/ADV/PRO). Basic are Tech 1, specializations are Tech 2. You start at Light suits and Sidearms and can progress up a size at level 3. All suits and weapons get bonuses from their operation skills. Specializations simply branch off from the main trunk and require level 5 in a given basic frame size. Specializations get bonuses from both the basic frame skill and the specialization skill. Basic suits are middle of the road generalized, but still have bonused roles (means we can have many suit variations with different bonuses from the same skill - like A-series and B-series and so on). Specialization suits do one thing really well at the cost of not being good at anything else; again we can have multiple suit variations with different bonuses (an example is how the Zealot and Sacrilege are both Amarr HACs with different ways of fulfilling their roles). For weapons, a specialization would be "Shotguns", the general use skill would be "Gallente Light Weapons". All the support skills for weapons (rapid reload, sharpshooter, fitting optimization, ammo capacity, etc...) get combined into blanket skills and moved into their own section. What we had in Chrome weren't blanket skills, they were still divided by weapon size. Training the same skill multiple times isn't appealing game design, and just stuffs the skill tree full of identical skills. If limited diversification is a requirement for specialization, you avoid the issue of players restricting themselves to one suit and weapon, which is one of the things covered in "Balancing for Skill". And things need to be balanced around hard counters (covered in "Power creep"). Certain suits just need to flat out win against another particular suit if the users are of equal skill and circumstance. If you are a primarily Heavy user, but also have access to Light and Medium frames, then why not use them when a Heavy isn't the right tool for the job? You might not be as good in either of those frames from a specialization point of view, but if they flat out beat a Heavy at a given role then swapping into them is a valid strategy. Who knows, maybe you decide putting a few extra points into a suit you often end up using is a good idea (stops you from running into a brick wall). And absolutely, yes. Make a thread about this.