Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3305
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:13:00 -
[31] - Quote
Deadeyes Anterie wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote: But there SHOULD BE A REASON TO PLAY ASSAULT AT ALL. Currently? There is none. Logi suits are straight up better. If I was commanding a PC battle I would say "Go logi or go home".
I'd assume (or hope) that people are using what they're using because it's what they like and find it fun since this is a game after all. I see plenty of assaults, heavies, and scouts in game and most of them are getting along just fine even if some of their suit bonuses are a bit underpowered. It's not like they're going to stay underpowered forever. That because it says "assault" on the box, when in reality the true assault is a logi. Only half true after the 1.3 nerf. It's like you can pick an assault suit that can do the assault job, or you can pick a near identical suit that can cross-class as logistics. If you are not into free gear slots then there is a great selection of assault suits. Actually, only Cal Logi vs Cal Assault is kinda sorta ok. (I still think Cal Logis are OP) Gal Logi vs Gal Assault? My two fits are exactly the same in everything but the stamina and speed (0.1 speed difference). My logi suit regenerates armor faster and gets more armor, while also having equipment. My fast regenerating armor assault suit, while regenerating 3hp/s faster, has 150 less armor than my logi suit. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3305
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:15:00 -
[32] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So... You want to be a better assault? Dude, the sidearm isn't a big deal when you have an assault rifle with 60 bullets in the clip. With this suggestion, the only way the logi would be fair is if it had only 2 equipment slots.
Nope if I want to go on a slayer role I stick with my Gall Medium suit or I switch to my scout (this is rather hardmode and needs more flanking etc) I just don't want a class to be over nerfed. And my sidearm saved my ass countless times and I have died a lot because my opponent could switch to a sidearm while i could not. I think with the latest adjustments made by CCP Logis are almost fine for now (until they get the role bonus fixed than we may need a new balance pass). The sad part is the assault suit do not differ very much from the base Frame thats a Problem. Assaults sacrifice nothing and gain nothing (apart from their skill bonus). So compared to the Medium Frame they are a bit boring :/. Logis on the other hand differ a from lot the Basic Frame they give something and get something and in my opinion at a fair ratio. We loose: Base Shield Base Amor Base Speed Sprint Speed Base Stamina Shield recharge Sidearm We gain CPU PG 2 Equipmentslot 1 Lowslot (gallente here, can't say much about the others) Seems somewhat fair But as I said I would trade the Low slot for more Base Speed and Stamina So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
I can't compensate for the lower shields or the missing sidearm and regarding the rest as far as I see I only can compensate one of the remaining downsides (maybe I oversee something ) |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2854
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
Because some logis might not want to use those slots just to put them on par with assaults. I have a logi fitting build for speed, high stamina, fast hacking and laying out mines. I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't have the hacking bonus and the extra low/equipment slots. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3308
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
I can't compensate for the lower shields or the missing sidearm and regarding the rest as far as I see I only can compensate one of the remaining downsides (maybe I oversee something ) A sidearm isn't a big deal with an AR that has 60 bullets in a clip. If I could give up my sidearm on my assault suit for an extra equipment? I would.
And you can compensate for shields, or if you're Gallente then armor. eHP is what's important, doesn't matter if you have 400 armor hp or 400 shield hp, as long as you have 400. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3309
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:45:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
Because some logis might not want to use those slots just to put them on par with assaults. I have a logi fitting build for speed, high stamina, fast hacking and laying out mines. I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't have the hacking bonus and the extra low/equipment slots. Doesn't mean it's fine. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2855
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:46:00 -
[37] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
Because some logis might not want to use those slots just to put them on par with assaults. I have a logi fitting build for speed, high stamina, fast hacking and laying out mines. I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't have the hacking bonus and the extra low/equipment slots. Doesn't mean it's fine. Fine or not, it's fun and I'm not killing anyone while I'm doing it. |
Dr Allopathy
Homos Erected
210
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:49:00 -
[38] - Quote
IMO it's a non-issue.
You still need good logi's to back your team. Not everyone will run around in them as assaults. Assuming CCP leaves it the way it is (which they should IMO), then people will smarten up and spec into them anyway for the bonuses. Problem solved; both sides use it. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3312
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:50:00 -
[39] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
Because some logis might not want to use those slots just to put them on par with assaults. I have a logi fitting build for speed, high stamina, fast hacking and laying out mines. I wouldn't be able to do this if I didn't have the hacking bonus and the extra low/equipment slots. Doesn't mean it's fine. Fine or not, it's fun and I'm not killing anyone while I'm doing it. I had fun using OP weapons. Doesn't mean it's fine. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2857
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:53:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I had fun using OP weapons. Doesn't mean it's fine. I'm using the suit in a non-lethal role, isn't that what you guys want? |
|
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3312
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
Dr Allopathy wrote:IMO it's a non-issue.
You still need good logi's to back your team. Not everyone will run around in them as assaults. Assuming CCP leaves it the way it is (which they should IMO), then people will smarten up and spec into them anyway for the bonuses. Problem solved; both sides use it. So... All the players that wanted to be assault will be using a logi suit because it's plain better? How is that fine in your mind? |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3312
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 10:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I had fun using OP weapons. Doesn't mean it's fine. I'm using the suit in a non-lethal role, isn't that what you guys want? Did I ever say I want you to be non-lethal?
I'm just saying I don't want you to have the potential to be better at the assault's job with the logi. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2858
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I had fun using OP weapons. Doesn't mean it's fine. I'm using the suit in a non-lethal role, isn't that what you guys want? Did I ever say I want you to be non-lethal? I'm just saying I don't want you to have the potential to be better at the assault's job with the logi. And I keep telling you I'm not. One thing I had to accept when I went logi is that my KDR was going to go down the crapper, and wound up losing a lot more 1 v 1 encounters that I should normally win. Slower movement, less stamina, slower recharge/depleted delay, lower base EHP, no sidearm, you say all those things are negligible, but they add up whether you want to believe it or not. One thing I sure as hell miss is my Viziam SP and Ishukone SMG. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3313
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:05:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:I had fun using OP weapons. Doesn't mean it's fine. I'm using the suit in a non-lethal role, isn't that what you guys want? Did I ever say I want you to be non-lethal? I'm just saying I don't want you to have the potential to be better at the assault's job with the logi. And I keep telling you I'm not. One thing I had to accept when I went logi is that my KDR was going to go down the crapper, and wound up losing a lot more 1 v 1 encounters that I should normally win. Slower movement, less stamina, slower recharge/depleted delay, lower base EHP, no sidearm, you say all those things are negligible, but they add up whether you want to believe it or not. One thing I sure as hell miss is my Viziam SP and Ishukone SMG. If you had the same slot layout as an assault? I would believe you. But with the extra slots? That's just enough to make it too much. I am using the logi suit, I know exactly what I'm talking about, and the only reason I'm going assault is because it doesn't feel right to me to use a logi suit for being assault. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
57
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Hmm, compensate in what way? Health wise yes.
Everything else, no. You are slower and therefore can be hit far easier, also the fact that your stamina is garbage. I like the way the suits are looking to be in 1.3. So take you're complaining somewhere else. Just because someone is in a logi suit doesn't mean they can't kill stuff.
ALSO The only logi suit that was being used as an assault was the caldari, due to the bonuses and the 5 high slots. If you try to tank the gallente one in pure hp like the caldari, you're gonna have a bad time.
Please at least test stuff out before you look at the numbers and say this and that. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3313
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:10:00 -
[46] - Quote
NewOldMan wrote:Hmm, compensate in what way? Health wise yes.
Everything else, no. You are slower and therefore can be hit far easier, also the fact that your stamina is garbage. I like the way the suits are looking to be in 1.3. So take you're complaining somewhere else. Just because someone is in a logi suit doesn't mean they can't kill stuff.
ALSO The only logi suit that was being used as an assault was the caldari, due to the bonuses and the 5 high slots. If you try to tank the gallente one in pure hp like the caldari, you're gonna have a bad time.
Please at least test stuff out before you look at the numbers and say this and that. So much wrong in this post. Please read the rest of the comments in this thread before commenting and making an idiot of yourself. |
Korvin Lomont
United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION
54
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:17:00 -
[47] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
I can't compensate for the lower shields or the missing sidearm and regarding the rest as far as I see I only can compensate one of the remaining downsides (maybe I oversee something ) A sidearm isn't a big deal with an AR that has 60 bullets in a clip. If I could give up my sidearm on my assault suit for an extra equipment? I would. And you can compensate for shields, or if you're Gallente then armor. eHP is what's important, doesn't matter if you have 400 armor hp or 400 shield hp, as long as you have 400.
As I said i would trade the Low slot for more Speed and stamina. And regarding the ehp thing it does matter how to achieve your ehp (shields>armor) overcompensating the loss in Shield hp through armor will make you slower and more vulnerable so at the current state this isn't a fair trade.
Don't get me wrong I know the gallente Assault has some serious problems but honestly I believe fixing the assault is the better variant then nerfing everything else. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3313
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
I can't compensate for the lower shields or the missing sidearm and regarding the rest as far as I see I only can compensate one of the remaining downsides (maybe I oversee something ) A sidearm isn't a big deal with an AR that has 60 bullets in a clip. If I could give up my sidearm on my assault suit for an extra equipment? I would. And you can compensate for shields, or if you're Gallente then armor. eHP is what's important, doesn't matter if you have 400 armor hp or 400 shield hp, as long as you have 400. As I said i would trade the Low slot for more Speed and stamina. And regarding the ehp thing it does matter how to achieve your ehp (shields>armor) overcompensating the loss in Shield hp through armor will make you slower and more vulnerable so at the current state this isn't a fair trade. Don't get me wrong I know the gallente Assault has some serious problems but honestly I believe fixing the assault is the better variant then nerfing everything else. You don't get to trade, you already have 4 equipment slots, that's more than compensation. You lose the module slot, that's the only way logis would be balanced in their current state. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2859
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:Cat Merc wrote: So why give them more module slots than assaults so they can compensate for what you loose? That makes no sense. If they gave you exactly the same slot amount then it would be fine.
I can't compensate for the lower shields or the missing sidearm and regarding the rest as far as I see I only can compensate one of the remaining downsides (maybe I oversee something ) A sidearm isn't a big deal with an AR that has 60 bullets in a clip. If I could give up my sidearm on my assault suit for an extra equipment? I would. And you can compensate for shields, or if you're Gallente then armor. eHP is what's important, doesn't matter if you have 400 armor hp or 400 shield hp, as long as you have 400. As I said i would trade the Low slot for more Speed and stamina. And regarding the ehp thing it does matter how to achieve your ehp (shields>armor) overcompensating the loss in Shield hp through armor will make you slower and more vulnerable so at the current state this isn't a fair trade. Don't get me wrong I know the gallente Assault has some serious problems but honestly I believe fixing the assault is the better variant then nerfing everything else. You don't get to trade, you already have 4 equipment slots, that's more than compensation. You lose the module slot, that's the only way logis would be balanced in their current state. I think your problem is more about shield vs armor than logi vs assault. |
NewOldMan
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
57
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:35:00 -
[50] - Quote
You're more or less saying that the downsides that ARE there and ARE prevalent. Are not.
You are completely disregarding the base speed loss as well as the base hp and stamina. And sidearms, idk if you've heard of something called the flaylock but it works wonders.
Also, as a gallente logi player, I could give up a high slot, or 3. I don't use them. I don't care about them. I'm just irked that you disregard all real advantages assault has over logi. |
|
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3314
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
NewOldMan wrote:You're more or less saying that the downsides that ARE there and ARE prevalent. Are not.
You are completely disregarding the base speed loss as well as the base hp and stamina. And sidearms, idk if you've heard of something called the flaylock but it works wonders.
Also, as a gallente logi player, I could give up a high slot, or 3. I don't use them. I don't care about them. I'm just irked that you disregard all real advantages assault has over logi. I don't disregard them. I'm saying there is no point in giving them disadvantages that they can compensate for. These disadvantages would only be good enough if you lose the slot. I use a logi suit, get it into your head, I USE A LOGI SUIT, I KNOW HOW GOOD IT IS. Lose the slot. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3314
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 11:51:00 -
[52] - Quote
Cosgar wrote: I think your problem is more about shield vs armor than logi vs assault.
Nope. While it is a problem this has nothing to do with it. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2861
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 12:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Cosgar wrote: I think your problem is more about shield vs armor than logi vs assault.
Nope. While it is a problem this has nothing to do with it. Then why so adamant about the Gallente assault losing a low slot than to somehow make the two suits balanced? Like the Minmatar suits, the Gallente have assaults and logi that don't overpower eachother. The assault has the shield regen bonus, (soon to be armor related) a hyrbrid weapon fitting reduction and the logi has an equipment reduction with an extra low slot at the cost of sidearms and stats. I know you may think that one slot adds this huge advantage, but it's just a slot and even if it adds a larger buffer if you can fit a plate or extra armor regen if you put on a repper, the assault is still way faster and has more DPS with that sidearm you're not giving any credit to. |
Vin Mora
Sand Mercenary Corps Inc. Interstellar Conquest Enterprises
60
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 12:16:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:At proto: Currently the Amarr ones have the same mod slots as the assault, but that's going to change with 1.3 with the addition of an extra low slot. They only have 3 equipment slots, but gain a sidearm. The Minmatar and Gallente have 1 more mod slots than their assault counterpart. The Cal logi has 2 more mod slots then the assault counterpart. It could be argued that this is fair because they only get 3 equipment slots instead of 2. No, no it isn't. Put a kinetic catalyzer in the extra low slot - No more speed problem, in fact you are faster! Put a shield extender in the extra high slot - Hey! You closed thep HP gap and even got an extra 6hp! I suggest returning the Amarr to the slot layout they had before, give them the sidearm and PG buff, but give them one less equipment slot than the Gal/Cal Logi. You do realize that you are still .3 m/s slower right? The KinCat only increases your sprinting speed, not your base speed, while armor plates lower your base speed, which also affects your sprinting speed.
So yes, you may run faster, unless the assault suit also equipped KinCats as well. Then he will be much faster.
Logis (generally) have more slots because they may need to run CPU/PG extenders to fit all of their equipment at higher tiers. But GalLogi can get away without doing that because of the fact that its bonus is to fitting requirement reduction.
You assertion that Logi > Assault came from the two instances were that may be the issue. CalLogi was overpowered because their insane shields, and GalLogis could be considered strong because of the reduced equipment fitting cost allowing them to fit better modules. However, AmarrLogi were underpowered compared to other Logis and MinLogi are actually the most versatile and balanced of the bunch. |
Cat Merc
BetaMax. CRONOS.
3316
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 13:35:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vin Mora wrote:Cat Merc wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:At proto: Currently the Amarr ones have the same mod slots as the assault, but that's going to change with 1.3 with the addition of an extra low slot. They only have 3 equipment slots, but gain a sidearm. The Minmatar and Gallente have 1 more mod slots than their assault counterpart. The Cal logi has 2 more mod slots then the assault counterpart. It could be argued that this is fair because they only get 3 equipment slots instead of 2. No, no it isn't. Put a kinetic catalyzer in the extra low slot - No more speed problem, in fact you are faster! Put a shield extender in the extra high slot - Hey! You closed thep HP gap and even got an extra 6hp! I suggest returning the Amarr to the slot layout they had before, give them the sidearm and PG buff, but give them one less equipment slot than the Gal/Cal Logi. You do realize that you are still .3 m/s slower right? The KinCat only increases your sprinting speed, not your base speed, while armor plates lower your base speed, which also affects your sprinting speed. So yes, you may run faster, unless the assault suit also equipped KinCats as well. Then he will be much faster. Logis (generally) have more slots because they may need to run CPU/PG extenders to fit all of their equipment at higher tiers. But GalLogi can get away without doing that because of the fact that its bonus is to fitting requirement reduction. You assertion that Logi > Assault came from the two instances were that may be the issue. CalLogi was overpowered because their insane shields, and GalLogis could be considered strong because of the reduced equipment fitting cost allowing them to fit better modules. However, AmarrLogi were underpowered compared to other Logis and MinLogi are actually the most versatile and balanced of the bunch. Matter of a fact is, say what you want, my Gal Logi suit is better in every aspect than my Assault suit. The only difference is 0.1 m/s (Plates close in the distance), the inherent regen + gives me more regen, I got more HP, I got enough CPU/PG to fit anything I want on high slots, have a duvolle AR, a locus grenade and every equipment I want (All of them either advanced or prototype). I've been sitting and tweaking my suits for hours, I see no way how you can make the Gal Logi be worse or the same than the Gal assault, unless you intentionally **** it up or you just suck at fitting.
Both my assault and logi are field tested, Logi is way better, end of story. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |