tldr

I the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

Ok, what of my case? I was gallente assault, then I used my optional respec to get into caldari assault so that I could have the +10% reload speed for my PLC(I believe this is important to factor in) They are changing it in 1.3. What is yout suggestion?

Pretty much wait another 4 weeks until 1.4... Like we're all forced to.

Regarding Rule 1: Unless that MMO is AR 514

I'll just point your attention to the Breach assault rifle and SMG. Once mighty, brought low. :)

Which doesn't address the current usage of the mainline AR at all. But hehe, it was a good attempt I guess. SMG, lol.

2 weapons, in pub matches, outnumber in usage the other 10 weapons available to light/medium suits combined. The first of those weapons, the AR is used more than twice as often as the second, the sniper rifle.

Put more simply, the AR kills almost as much as all other 11 weapons available to light/medium suits combined.

Your argument was that ARs have always been OP and never nerfed. That claim was blatantly false.

In the distant past, the Breach AR was OP, and no other variant of the weapon had the same excessive power. It got nerfed massively, and still hasn't been addressed in any real way since.

For a while after the Breach nerf, the Tac AR was OP, then it got 3 nerfs when any 1 would have fixed the problem. Unlike the Breach, which even the users agreed had been OP, the Tac had a lot of supporters who asked for it to be made into a viable weapon again (mainly because it was one of only two non-sniper weapons with anything resembling decent sights at the time). It got the requested buff, and then some, and became OP again. Then it got a balance pass (kind of like a nerf, but less likely to turn the weapon into another Breach).

And I love how you're laughing at the SMG. You obviously never saw the days when the Breach SMG was more dangerous at longer range than the standard AR. And no, I'm not exaggerating. It was the closest thing the game had to a counter for the Breach AR when that was OP.

Basic Assault Rifles (not the variants) have consistently been a relatively well-balanced weapon. There has literally always been something better than them EVERY step of the way. Often that's been one of the AR variants, but as mentioned, those keep getting nerfed soon after they become OP.

He's mad because he is specced into flaylock pistols at the moment (most of his corp too). Played 2 matches (skirmishes) against your corp last week and it was nothing but protos and flaylocks. If I remember correctly you were using proto ARs and flaylocks.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

I'm not mad and you don't know my corp mates (I don't need to speak for them because I don't need to).

I can use any weapon to kill anyone that I already kill (If that's the expression). Like I said with the "Imperfect" example.

CCP made the respec and I skill into the flaylock and the scramble rifle just because they were new and I just wanted to try new stuff. I spend some days to learn how to use them and that's it. It's funny because I don't get die so much by a flaylcok as a forge gun (I don't think forge gun are op neither) or sniper rifles. Maybe people need to learn how to jump for example.

I can kill some guys with a flaylock as a scramble pistol, as any weapon. But if I'm playing against Aqua-Regia (who I think it's awesome) for example, I won't kill him with a flaylock, with a HAV, or with an atomic bomb.

So what exactly is your complaint (you're not specced into a cal logi)? If ccp is nerfing flaylocks then you should have no problem taking people out with other guns . So you and your corp mates just happened to be testing flaylock pistols in those skirmishes. I play against your corp all the time and it is nothing but flaylock spam. You cannot jump over the explosion (tired of seeing this), I have tried and it does not work. The difference between a sniper rifle/forge gun and the flaylock is that you can't spam them and you need to be on target (not close enough, forge gun/sniper give you enough time to run).

@Kato Ymmij: I wasn't complaing lol. I was talking basically about CCP behavior (which I think it's not cool) with the players while I practice my english

Edited: complaint ------> complaing

Regarding Rule 1: Unless that MMO is AR 514

With all respec you could point that this game has been "official launched" and it's not a beta (where you change and change the content of the game till the launch where you start to "add content")

This is an MMO first off and No just because you're released doesn't mean your shooter game gets a balance pass after launch, hell look at halo 4 and the DMR vs BR. Hell this practice has been done since... Doom 3 on consoles I believe.

Lol mmo? You are full of **** IWS

Lol mmo? You are full of **** IWS

Hahahaha you truly are a ******* duckhead IWS. 'Dust 514 is an mmo'.......... bahahahahahaha

Lobby shooter isn't a mmo, its a lobby shooter

Hahahaha you truly are a ******* duckhead IWS. 'Dust 514 is an mmo'.......... bahahahahahaha

Lobby shooter isn't a mmo, its a lobby shooter

You appear to be an idiot. MMO stands for GÇ£massively multiplayer onlineGÇ¥ which is exactly what Dust is. To further this point: It's an MMOFPSRPG - Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing game.

You appear to be an idiot. MMO stands for GÇ£massively multiplayer onlineGÇ¥ which is exactly what Dust is. To further this point: It's an MMOFPSRPG - Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing game.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

The difference is that in most MMOs you can grind for 2 weeks max and get everything you need to be relevant in that particular field. In the SP sink that is Dust, it takes months for you to get specialized. Months playing this game turns out to be a complete waste of time, and now you have to skill into something else, taking months again.

Just to be clear, which MMO let you win (being lvl 1/5) against a lvl 15/20? Because I see weapons like the "militia shotgun/forge gun" (lvl 0 weapon) that makes 1 kill shoots against proto suits.

Will you tell me that "It's a FPS too"

You appear to be an idiot. MMO stands for GÇ£massively multiplayer onlineGÇ¥ which is exactly what Dust is. To further this point: It's an MMOFPSRPG -Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing game.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

ITT: FoTM logi user cries about having his OP 'I Win' button taken away.

If balancing is done properly, a change never equates to your favorite thing becoming useless. In a proper balance pass, the only people who have any reason to complain are the people who specced into something that was obviously erroneously superior to everything else and expected that to never be addressed :P

Rule 1 of MMO- Never spec into the 'most powerful' thing. Because it's going to get nerfed. Spec into the second most powerful thing. because it won't! :)

As-is, Logi players have absolutely no reason to as for a respec, because not only are these changes /temporary/, but the new bonuses they're planning on putting in ASAP are pretty damn sweet.

So, while I can see the OP's logic, and can honestly say CCP's never done a /proper/ balancing pass like I mentioned above... I can say that this round of changes are among the most promising they've yet to release.

Massively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing gameMassively multiplayer online first-person shooter role-playing game
I has ISK naow?

O.o

It's not the same "no more respec when new content is add" than "no more respec when basic content is change".

Clearly CCP like the second way. I don't know what is it called in New Eden, but where I live, that's called "play with your time while I make you "the love" from behind" (with bad and nasty words).

I'm not an expert but I thought that "beta modes" were subject to change, and this is a full relase game.

I don't know but people (CCP/CPM) is confusing "new content" with "basic content".

First of all, there is not a full "basic content" because there are not all racial suits, so, if you want to go fatty, just go with the Amarr. That's not very "basic" since the game has 4 races (same with light suits with 2 left)

Also, since the closed BETA, CCP is changing the content in every patch/buid. So, you "invest" your time into the game to skill into weapons, suits and stuff that you feel "comfortable" with them, or you like them, and then CCP just change them. Yes, just change them. Why do they make that? Is it because they have not "will" and they just make what the forum says (cry)?
Is it because they listen to Iron Wolf Saber? Is it because they just can, and they don't give an ISK for the player base?

What is the excuse? CCP is new in the "FPS development"? Maybe it's an excuse for a bad development, but is it really an excuse for a conduct that implies to make you WASTE your time trying to reach someting that you want, just to screw it up some time after? In my opinion, no.

Like I said I'm not an expert but in the "game development world" you just see this when you're playing a BETA. And at least, the developers say to you "we will delete all that you made, but thanks for your time".

I won't be so naive to deny that the Dust 514 official launch was nothing but "publicity" (FAKE publicity")

And this is not all "CCP thing". Dust community make his part too. They like to cry about something that it's not good them. The most recently? Yes, the lovely flaylock. People don't understand that is not about the weapon but the player. The same problem happen since the closed beta with the assault rifle. I don't know how many times CCP made changes on it, and it's all the same. You just play 2 or 3 days to "understand it" and you just keep doing your stuff.

I would say an example that it was always funny to me. I remember when PC starts and all the people was saying/crying that Imperfects was just a full bag of TAR. I would like to know if now, all those players that cried and cried, can kill them so much easier. Particullary, I don't think so.

Players cries for all and the result is CCP making stupids changes to make your time, YOUR LIFE, nothing but wasted, because CCP don't like to compensate so much.

What are you telling me? CCP screw 3 "SP grind month" of your life but they gave you 100 shotguns with a pretty name? WOW, that's so ******* good.

So basically, yes. CCP is playing with all the player base.

I understand all the CPMs and CPM prospects that think and need to say that all this behavior is good stuff.

I think that CCP doesn't care enough about the time invested by the players. Because, yes, you play a free game, but they need people to play it in a world with millons of games, and a lot of platforms. So it's something reciprocal.

Are they good guys? I don't know. But as developers, they doesn't look like.

Do I care all this stuff? Not really and not that much. I'm just waiting for the dinner and I'm trying to use this time to train my enlgish without so much google translator.

Does CCP play with you and screw your time? Yes, sure.

*Waiting for the ban*

The AR is OP. Also, I was laughing at the SMG, not because it was nerfed, but because it is the strongest sidearm, especially with the incoming flaylock nerf. I was also laughing because mentioning a nerf to the SMG actually supports my point. The SMG is likely going to get nerfed again, because it isn't an AR, and it competes with the AR, which is a nono in AR 514.

The AR is clearly pushing any diversity that this game is supposed to have out the window. You can argue what OP means, and I understand I am in a minority with what I think it means, but when you have one weapon used nearly as much as the bottom 10 out of 12 combined, you have a serious problem. Deny it's OP if you want, but this lack of diversity is a problem.