We are taking this feedback very seriously and are looking into a solution that will bring balance to this weapon :) So, hopefully it's to your liking and in the future please don't hesitate with your concerns!

So the biggest issue is the splash radius... and you're asking for a buff to it?

Wow... glad you don't do weapon balancing for CCP.

So the biggest issue is the splash radius... and you're asking for a buff to it?

Wow... glad you don't do weapon balancing for CCP.

the weapon is supposed to be a finishing one, it should be doing 125 dmg a shot, standard, proto 160.

it has to still be effective but the fire rate is way to high, and that makes the dps sky rocket into a realm it shouldnt be. at the same time if you have to hit the guy directly with it to work, there is no point to using it. it becomes no longer a special weapon but just a useless pistol with 3 rounds...

the reload could go as high as 4 seconds, with a fire rate as low as 100 rpm.

since the flaylocks dnt do chip damage, calculating dps can be difficult. but, since we know the damage per shot increasing the delay between shots can help balance it out. if it takes lets say 3.5 seconds te empty your clip and 3.5 seconds to reload your dps would begin droping down to where it should be.

again nrfing the damage and radius is the wrong way to balance this weapon. its a high risk high reward weapon. if you miss zero damage is done and the clip is only 3 strong.

the SMG is a low risk low reward weapon, where missing isnt as important but when you hit the opponent damage done is not significant in and of itself.

The adv Flaylock is pretty balanced. I hardly kill with that weapon unless I hit with the 3 shots and the guy has 0 shields.

-XOXO

The adv Flaylock is pretty balanced. I hardly kill with that weapon unless I hit with the 3 shots and the guy has 0 shields. Core should have its blast radius nerf to like 1.7 Agreed on fire rate should be lower.

-XOXO

It's kind of hard to miss though, at least if you aim for the feet.

Obviously going for direct shots increases the chances of a miss, though an increase in splash wouldn't really help it in that regard, and would actually hinder it in CQC. Bigger splash = More suicides The splash on the MD is relatively safe thanks to it's low-ish splash damage, 3m on a flay though? fuq dat ****!!!

The problem is that the Flaylock does 90% of it's direct damage as splash damage. For reference, the Mass Driver does 50% of it's direct damage as splash damage. And the mass driver is suppose to be a main weapon, while the flaylock is a sidearm.

Fully skill and damage modded out, it can deal a whopping 325.61 or more damage to armour, as splash damage.

That is why it is OP in it's current state.

even better if people suicided more with flaylocks they wouldnt spam it in shotgun range. requiring them to judge distances better. good pointl

i have no tolerance for spamming.

at the same time i like diversity and variety. i dnt won't the flaylocks such a unique weapon to become so useless tht everyone just spams SMGs..

The problem is that the Flaylock does 90% of it's direct damage as splash damage. For reference, the Mass Driver does 50% of it's direct damage as splash damage. And the mass driver is suppose to be a main weapon, while the flaylock is a sidearm.

Fully skill and damage modded out, it can deal a whopping 325.61 or more damage to armour, as splash damage.

That is why it is OP in it's current state.

The problem is that the Flaylock does 90% of it's direct damage as splash damage. For reference, the Mass Driver does 50% of it's direct damage as splash damage. And the mass driver is suppose to be a main weapon, while the flaylock is a sidearm.

Fully skill and damage modded out, it can deal a whopping 325.61 or more damage to armour, as splash damage.

That is why it is OP in it's current state.

That sounds weak, not balanced, considering it's meant to take out armor. Unless you're talking about heavies or something, which I doubt.

But that's the thing about sidearms. They aren't meant to be used for killing but as for last resort. This means your enemy has to be weakened first by using your main then you use the sidearm for finishing off. I do this with the specialist flaylock meanwhile anyone can use the core as main and get more kills than a main weapon, like scrambler rifles for example. I bet I can kill more easily with the core than with my boundless HMG.

-XOXO

I actually managed to see that part of the WOT first...last thing that guns needs is even less accuarcy for effective results.
timrah

The flaylock has only 25% splash area as compared to the MD. So yes, more damage, but much smaller area, and half the magazine size.

But that's the thing about sidearms. They aren't meant to be used for killing but as for last resort. This means your enemy has to be weakened first by using your main then you use the sidearm for finishing off. I do this with the specialist flaylock meanwhile anyone can use the core as main and get more kills than a main weapon, like scrambler rifles for example. I bet I can kill more easily with the core than with my boundless HMG.

-XOXO

But that's the thing about sidearms. They aren't meant to be used for killing but as for last resort. This means your enemy has to be weakened first by using your main then you use the sidearm for finishing off. I do this with the specialist flaylock meanwhile anyone can use the core as main and get more kills than a main weapon, like scrambler rifles for example. I bet I can kill more easily with the core than with my boundless HMG.

-XOXO

i like it how people on focus on dissing op when he has valid points...

i know right.... i don't understand. the whole idea behind my idea of the balance to flaylocks is that it punishes those without skill in them but rewards people with skill in them.

they want the flaylocks to be nerfed so that no one can use them... its rediculous.

all weapons should be balanced in such a way that noobs are punished for spamming them but masters are rewarded for their skills.

Sorry, I can't read the words "Flaylock Pistol" and "Splash Radius buff" and stay serious.

Except it was clearly designed as a noob tube, a beginner friendly weapon, and it should stay that way, the problem is , as you said, it's simply too damn easy to spam the things

A change in RoF And reload speed should end most of this QQ.
Or we could standardize splash ranges around the ADV Flay, but not STD, that thing sucks balls.

actually the noob gun of the game is the AR, requires the least SP, has the fewest draw backs, requires the least actual skill and deals tons of damage fast. it has the best CPU/PG ratio of all weapons basically (condisdering its potency), it can be used in all situations to great effect. it out ranges everything except snipers, and can be just as effective as a shotgun in close range (depending on your proficiency).

hell the AR out guns HMGs... the AR really needs a nerf not the flaylock.

I think you've already undermined your point. I don't know many guns that become 200% more effective going from std to pro. The FP needs a splash normalization more than anything. Fom what I've heard the 1.7m of the adv is pretty well balanced.

So first thing is normalize to 1.5m and change operation to 3% per level. This keeps is effective as a close range sidearm and not some noob tube you can spam at 20-30m and go lulz.

Past that I don't comment... I can't say what needs to be done... I think we need to start with that first though and go from there. Anything else should be slight changes though probably, starting with your suggestions.. RoF and reload speed... Then move on to damage.

Btw as a cal logi, I still get wrecked by this in PC... It's just too powerful in skilled hands... Fixing armor tanking wont make this less OP.

QFT

what is QFT?

when i was speaking about the .5meter radius buff i was referencing the breach and STD flaylcosk because even with operation lvl 5 they are completely worthless.
all flaylocks should get that radius buff, but the core nor adv should ever reach over 3 meters range.

if the ROF and reload speed are decreased, people will have a chance to fight back against people who spam them.


but rediusing the blast radius? thats kind of the point to the gun. try using the breach and you will see what i mean. it becomes completely irreliably and useless. the blast radius actually needs a buff by the small amount i sugested.


the std would then have a 1.5 meter blast radius; the adv a 2.2 meter, and the proto a 2.5 meter. with proficiency, they would never exceed 3 meter blast radius.

the projectile range can be reduced, but its a rocket and with a slower fire rate long range spamming would cease. although the crazy claims most people make i have never experienced even with my alt with only 700,000 SP i die to more ARs than MDs and flaylocks... hell i die to more TACs than flaylocsk

You know what? screw fair "balance" it will get nerfed so hard that it will do pitifull damage. Same thing happend to lasers so i dont see a reason why the flaylock should get a different treatment. And speaking of "missile weapons" the actual small/large missile launchers are still a joke. If they would have beeing anywhere remotely like flaylocks you would see LAV hit and runs with them. Every crap thing will have its shiny days but everything has a cost. Now you guys who specced into them will pay with your SP cause its gonna be a wasted piece of junk.

Too right, except that is, when it comes to the AR.

So... 2.5m Core Flaylock + 25% splash radius from Flaylock Operation is 3.125m. I really don't think the Core Flaylock needs more of a buff dude, even with a RoF nerf.

You know what? screw fair "balance" it will get nerfed so hard that it will do pitifull damage. Same thing happend to lasers so i dont see a reason why the flaylock should get a different treatment. And speaking of "missile weapons" the actual small/large missile launchers are still a joke. If they would have beeing anywhere remotely like flaylocks you would see LAV hit and runs with them. Every crap thing will have its shiny days but everything has a cost. Now you guys who specced into them will pay with your SP cause its gonna be a wasted piece of junk.

this gun is not designed to be a direct impact weapon. why do people want to make i a scrambler pistol?


the flaylocks even as they are now aren't that big a problem. the flaylocks only work within a limited range, close range, or if my opponent is predictable boarder line close mid range. people seem to think explosives are noobish, but spammable chip damage weapons are pretty much just as noobish and annoying. the TAC ar used to be beeter than every gun at every range.

the proto cadari logi has more ehp than a heavy but no one cares about that....


the flaylocks could be balanced better and this is how i see it. longer reload, slower rate of fire, and slightly larger blast radius.

larger blast radius? sure but then the splash damage shud be reduced to balance out the extra range
dont like less splash damage dont ask for longer splash range
slower reload and slower rate of fire wuild be more then enof to make it balanced seeing the proto
gots plenty of blast radius as it is

The dmg is fine, maybe lower splash by 10-15% as a last resort, but down to 125? You gone crazy broskie.
Noobtip: The counter to the boom booms is shields.

I didn't say spam, but,using CQC weapon in CQC shouldn't get you killed

Yesterday I was trying to urge calm and hoping that CCP had understood how to go about balancing.

CCP's posts today show that isnt the case. Wont know till the blog but its looking like you (and a couple others) are right on the money.

I think CCP really should give up - find a good dev house to make the game whilst they consult with lore and ideas. They are terribly slow to act and have no foresight when it comes to how their choices of design can be easily exploited.

Flaylocks need a nerf, anyone who denies it gets 90% of their kills with the core flaylock. Just have one bullet per clip,170 splash damage and 2 sec reload speed, lower blast radius (maybe) that way it can actually be used as a secondary. People will switch to it when they really need it.

CCP and knowing what they do? on which planet are you living? There is a decent list of things what happend to "OP" stuff. Well lets start:
-breach AR (nerfed in range and clipsize)
-Burst asssault rifles (nerfed from beeing a 6 shot burst to a 3 shot which basically cuts the DPS in half)
-laser rifle (damage has beeing reduced, crappy iron sights so it became a assist machine)
-missile turrets (reduced splash damage and radius now they are useless)
-dropships (once the star in sky now just a brick with engines attached to it)
-vehicle engineering nerf (took away the +5% PG per lvl which reduces the effective EHP drastically)

the list goes on and i think you get the picture. Once CCP lays hand on something its getting screwed up or beeing made insanely OP. The exception at the moment is the TAC AR which they changed i think 3~4 times in a row until they finally got it right.

They nerfed the duvolle tac ar to h*ll so it would actually be used as a long range weapon because of the modded controller spam and now the flaylock is next. What makes you think they wont nerf the flaylock so its used as a secondary, they nerfed the tanks so all that sp put into upgrading the pg was a waste for EVERY tanker dont just take it from me. and they nerfed scout suits and duvolle tac. So saying they shouldn't nerf the flaylock because its a waste of sp is just st*pid tell that to the tankers who wasted thier pg upgrade modules for nothing. Ya they should nerf it so its used as a secondary and until us tankers get our pg upgrade dont say its a waste of sp.

Yeah the fire rate is the main issue in my mind, being able to burst fire the 3 shots is what really makes the gun powerful. Magazine size is fine, I'd argue the blast radius is fine but you are right about the Standard being useless. I'd stand to see the damage dropped by 15% so with Prof. V you get the same damage output it has now.

and oh god yes armor tanking (for infantry) needs some help. Damage Specific resistance amps for infantry would be neat yeah?

3 clip size doesent mater as much if the fire rate is lowered so it cant be spammed increasing reload speed wil also help stop making it non stop hailfireing the operation skill decrease from 5% per lvl to 2% per lvl will make it more of a sidearm skill instead of primary reducing the max ammo count wuild actualy make it more of a sidearm sized weapon why shud it have more max ammo then its primary type the mass driver that just doesent make any sense
so wat needs to be done
1: slower rate of fire
2: longer reload speed
3: flaylock operations from 5%/lvl decrease to 2%/lvl
4: max ammo decrease so it has sidearm lvl ammo instead more then its primary type weapon

if you say it doesent need less ammo its like your saying the AR needs more ammo then the HMG wich doesent make any sense at all

ya i dont think anyone here would want the core flaylock to have more splash radius you obviously do cause you get 90% of your kills with them. just add the .5m to the breach and .25m to the Std If you really dont want the flaylocks to go to hell. The ROF and DPS however is a different story.

So the biggest issue is the splash radius... and you're asking for a buff to it?

Wow... glad you don't do weapon balancing for CCP.

So the biggest issue is the splash radius... and you're asking for a buff to it?

Wow... glad you don't do weapon balancing for CCP.

Have you actually used the flaylock? The splash radius is tiny. It just seems larger because of the RoF.

The OP's solution is perfect.