DUST Search - LAV Spam Fixes

Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote:

Forlorn Destrier wrote:

Rogatien Merc wrote:

In an attempt to understand the debate and summarize suggestions regarding LAV spam in pub matches, I've come to the conclusion that there are three general positions on this topic and have categorized the suggestions I see most often under each category.

1) Extreme calls for HTFU; adapt or GTFO.
- Working as intended.
- Practice situational awareness.
- Utilize more of the available AV.
- CCP endorses Dust Mario Cart video Roll

2) Extreme calls for Nerf; LAV spam is game breaking.
- Remove free LAVs.
- Adjust LAV/LLAV HP to allow OHKO by similar level AV
- Remove all impact damage cuz like, futuristic dropsuits have inertial dampeners.

3) Middle of the road: LAV Spam is detrimental; let's balance it.
- Increase signature to show vehicles on radar at all times.
- Allow graded damage based on angle of impact
- Apply damage to LAV upon impact with dropsuit
- Slight increase to certain AV effectiveness on LAVs / slight decrease in EHP.
- Increase driver hitbox to allow possibility of shooting driver
- Slightly decrease LAV speed with speed mods.
- Introduce webifier or quicksand (?) traps.

... Feel free to weigh in on the debate below. What's your opinion on LAV spam? In as few words as possible, what other tweaks could balance the situation? Most importantly, +1 cuz hey... likes = my self worth yo.

Discuss.

I am one of the option 3 guys.

Why did you quote the OPs wall of text?

PS. Appreciate the irony.

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Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 417	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:22:00 - [1] - Quote In an attempt to understand the debate and summarize suggestions regarding LAV spam in pub matches, I've come to the conclusion that there are three general positions on this topic and have categorized the suggestions I see most often under each category. 1) Extreme calls for HTFU; adapt or GTFO. - Working as intended. - Practice situational awareness. - Utilize more of the available AV. - CCP endorses Dust Mario Cart video 2) Extreme calls for Nerf; LAV spam is game breaking. - Remove free LAVs. - Adjust LAV/LLAV HP to allow OHKO by similar level AV - Remove all impact damage cuz like, futuristic dropsuits have inertial dampeners. 3) Middle of the road: LAV Spam is detrimental; let's balance it. - Increase signature to show vehicles on radar at all times. - Allow graded damage based on angle of impact - Apply damage to LAV upon impact with dropsuit - Slight increase to certain AV effectiveness on LAVs / slight decrease in EHP. - Increase driver hitbox to allow possibility of shooting driver - Slightly decrease LAV speed with speed mods. - Introduce webifier or quicksand (?) traps. ... Feel free to weigh in on the debate below. What's your opinion on LAV spam? In as few words as possible, what other tweaks could balance the situation? Most importantly, +1 cuz hey... likes = my self worth yo. Discuss.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 212	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:35:00 - [2] - Quote I think people forget ccp makes another vehicle game... eve... that they're early trailors showcase a lot of vehicles.... and that this is not supposed to be a traditional FPS...
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1164	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:36:00 - [3] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: In an attempt to understand the debate and summarize suggestions regarding LAV spam in pub matches, I've come to the conclusion that there are three general positions on this topic and have categorized the suggestions I see most often under each category. 1) Extreme calls for HTFU; adapt or GTFO. - Working as intended. - Practice situational awareness. - Utilize more of the available AV. - CCP endorses Dust Mario Cart video 2) Extreme calls for Nerf; LAV spam is game breaking. - Remove free LAVs. - Adjust LAV/LLAV HP to allow OHKO by similar level AV - Remove all impact damage cuz like, futuristic dropsuits have inertial dampeners. 3) Middle of the road: LAV Spam is detrimental; let's balance it. - Increase signature to show vehicles on radar at all times. - Allow graded damage based on angle of impact - Apply damage to LAV upon impact with dropsuit - Slight increase to certain AV effectiveness on LAVs / slight decrease in EHP. - Increase driver hitbox to allow possibility of shooting driver - Slightly decrease LAV speed with speed mods. - Introduce webifier or quicksand (?) traps. ... Feel free to weigh in on the debate below. What's your opinion on LAV spam? In as few words as possible, what other tweaks could balance the situation? Most importantly, +1 cuz hey... likes = my self worth yo. Discuss. I am one of the option 3 guys.
Ansiiis The Trustworthy WE ARE LEGENDS 125	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:40:00 - [4] - Quote Forlorn Destrier wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: In an attempt to understand the debate and summarize suggestions regarding LAV spam in pub matches, I've come to the conclusion that there are three general positions on this topic and have categorized the suggestions I see most often under each category. 1) Extreme calls for HTFU; adapt or GTFO. - Working as intended. - Practice situational awareness. - Utilize more of the available AV. - CCP endorses Dust Mario Cart video 2) Extreme calls for Nerf; LAV spam is game breaking. - Remove free LAVs. - Adjust LAV/LLAV HP to allow OHKO by similar level AV - Remove all impact damage cuz like, futuristic dropsuits have inertial dampeners. 3) Middle of the road: LAV Spam is detrimental; let's balance it. - Increase signature to show vehicles on radar at all times. - Allow graded damage based on angle of impact - Apply damage to LAV upon impact with dropsuit - Slight increase to certain AV effectiveness on LAVs / slight decrease in EHP. - Increase driver hitbox to allow possibility of shooting driver - Slightly decrease LAV speed with speed mods. - Introduce webifier or quicksand (?) traps. ... Feel free to weigh in on the debate below. What's your opinion on LAV spam? In as few words as possible, what other tweaks could balance the situation? Most importantly, +1 cuz hey... likes = my self worth yo. Discuss. I am one of the option 3 guys. Why did you quote the OPs wall of text? PS. Appreciate the irony.
Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 417	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:42:00 - [5] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: I think people forget ccp makes another vehicle game... eve... that they're early trailors showcase a lot of vehicles.... and that this is not supposed to be a traditional FPS... The current 'destruction derby' style of vehicle usages demonstrates a little less... finesse than anything shown in any of the trailers.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Band Dust Mercenaries Immortals of War 2380	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:43:00 - [6] - Quote List of ones I don't have a problem with- - Working as intended. - Practice situational awareness. - Utilize more of the available AV. - Allow graded damage based on angle of impact - Slight increase to certain AV effectiveness on LAVs / slight decrease in EHP. - Introduce webifier or quicksand (?) traps. As far as the one about increasing driver hitbox, that won't help- most drivers right now wear heavy suits- and blaster turrets already headshot people out of the driver's seat all the time. Plus, it would punish people who use it for other reasons besides roadkills.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Band Dust Mercenaries Immortals of War 2380	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:45:00 - [7] - Quote Seymor Krelborn wrote: I think people forget ccp makes another vehicle game... eve... that they're early trailors showcase a lot of vehicles.... and that this is not supposed to be a traditional FPS... I don't want to spin around while turrets auto-fire. Although eve explains why most tank users think cost means everything.
Razor Signal Wraith Company 42	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:45:00 - [8] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: I think people forget ccp makes another vehicle game... eve... that they're early trailors showcase a lot of vehicles.... and that this is not supposed to be a traditional FPS... The current 'destruction derby' style of vehicle usages demonstrates a little less... finesse than anything shown in any of the trailers. Just need more AVs. One rank into grenadier will get you AVs to destroy the free LAVs. I agree, though. They shouldn't be free and they need a higher radar signature. I feel like the issue is their speed; sometimes they cream me and they don't even register until they're beyond my body.
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster 1164	Posted - 2013.07.16 22:49:00 - [9] - Quote Ansiiis The Trustworthy wrote: Forlorn Destrier wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: In an attempt to understand the debate and summarize suggestions regarding LAV spam in pub matches, I've come to the conclusion that there are three general positions on this topic and have categorized the suggestions I see most often under each category. 1) Extreme calls for HTFU; adapt or GTFO. - Working as intended. - Practice situational awareness. - Utilize more of the available AV. - CCP endorses Dust Mario Cart video 2) Extreme calls for Nerf; LAV spam is game breaking. - Remove free LAVs. - Adjust LAV/LLAV HP to allow OHKO by similar level AV - Remove all impact damage cuz like, futuristic dropsuits have inertial dampeners. 3) Middle of the road: LAV Spam is detrimental; let's balance it. - Increase signature to show vehicles on radar at all times. - Allow graded damage based on angle of impact - Apply damage to LAV upon impact with dropsuit - Slight increase to certain AV effectiveness on LAVs / slight decrease in EHP. - Increase driver hitbox to allow possibility of shooting driver - Slightly decrease LAV speed with speed mods. - Introduce webifier or quicksand (?) traps. ... Feel free to weigh in on the debate below. What's your opinion on LAV spam? In as few words as possible, what other tweaks could balance the situation? Most importantly, +1 cuz hey... likes = my self worth yo. Discuss. I am one of the option 3 guys. Why did you quote the OPs wall of text? PS. Appreciate the irony. I quote everything I reply too. Habit working in a job where no one reads what they say, or willfully ignore context to get what they want.
Scheneighnay McBob Tribal Band Dust Mercenaries Immortals of War 2381	Posted - 2013.07.16 23:07:00 - [10] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: I think people forget ccp makes another vehicle game... eve... that they're early trailors showcase a lot of vehicles.... and that this is not supposed to be a traditional FPS... The current 'destruction derby' style of vehicle usages demonstrates a little less... finesse than anything shown in any of the trailers. Finesse? Since when was a line of randomly firing vehicles finesse?

Rogatien Merc Red Star. EoN. 418	Posted - 2013.07.16 23:19:00 - [11] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Rogatien Merc wrote: Seymor Krelborn wrote: I think people forget ccp makes another vehicle game... eve... that they're early trailors showcase a lot of vehicles.... and that this is not supposed to be a traditional FPS... The current 'destruction derby' style of vehicle usages demonstrates a little less... finesse than anything shown in any of the trailers. Finesse? Since when was a line of randomly firing vehicles finesse? Touche.
Knight SoIaire Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1315	Posted - 2013.07.16 23:43:00 - [12] - Quote Shooting the driver out with a blaster, large or small, is incredibly easy, works almost every time, just aim for the driver. When I get ran over a lot by LLAVs, I dont get mad, I take out my Madrugar and hunt the sucker down. Armour LLAVs are incredibly easy to take out with Remote Explosives, bait them in with the promise of an easy Scout kill, jump out of the way, and blow that sucker up. I done it with the Basic REs the other day. Charybdis are a little more tricky, but just try lead them to a blaster turret or something.
Nemo Bluntz TeamPlayers EoN. 155	Posted - 2013.07.17 00:20:00 - [13] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: - Remove all impact damage cuz like, futuristic dropsuits have inertial dampeners. This alone would balance out the LAVs in their current form tremendously. Buff the turret a bit on top of that? You'd achieve balance pretty easily.
Poplo Furuya Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 383	Posted - 2013.07.17 00:59:00 - [14] - Quote This might seem a strange suggestion but I'd put forward maybe making the starter LAV blueprint not come with a weapon. The reason is it'd mean having to fit one on yourself. Would mean it's not entirely free but it also gets people to toy with the idea of a better turret. MLT are cheap, STD are also cheap and yet a Stabilised Light Blaster is far better than a Militia Blaster, doesn't fizzle within throwing distance. Same with missiles, Accelerated and so forth versus Militia. If the average turret stopped being a piece o' trash Militia with no Turret Operation skills behind it we might start seeing more of their use. So my reason for perhaps being behind the removal of free LAVs isn't because I want to see less LAVs, it's because I want to see better LAVs.
WhiteMage7322 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 229	Posted - 2013.07.17 01:05:00 - [15] - Quote How about for each time a LAV runs someone over, they take damage and it should be destroyed after 4-5 kills. Yes, I did it again. No charge CCP.
IVANJAKANOV Not Guilty EoN. 0	Posted - 2013.07.18 07:22:00 - [16] - Quote I see no problem with LAV spam, because more than one LAV trying to run over the same guys usually ends in them crashing and they both blow up (or the strongest one survives). I think the starter LAVs should be worth less points since they're very easy to kill and are free, so starter/blueprint LAV spam really just means easy points. The main fixes I think LAVs need are their sound level, they're too quiet right now even when at full speed, so it's hard to tell when they're coming up behind you. And maybe we need a new way to combat fast shield based vehicles (charybdis mainly) because sometimes it's too hard to hit them with flux or forge, so a webifier module or weapon would fix that (and it would work on all vehicles) and/or contact flux grenades. One thing I think needs to be fixed in favor of LAV drivers is AV grenades killing the driver but not the LAV when it directly hits the driver. Perhaps we could have an LAV with a roof over the cabin like any sane driver would want in a warzone? Or how about bringing out those MAVs that I see mentioned in the list of battle icons.
FATPrincess - XOXO Shining Flame Amarr Empire 252	Posted - 2013.07.18 07:32:00 - [17] - Quote #1 for me. Get gud and HTFU. -XOXO
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 157	Posted - 2013.07.18 07:33:00 - [18] - Quote LAV spam exists mainly because of the uninspired maps. Why can LAVs drive literally EVERYWHERE? They need some maps that have lots of roads but also some terrain that should be difficult to drive on with more urban areas. Every map is just too wide open... gigantic wide open field that is completely flat is kind of asking for LAV spam. Plus LAVs are hard to kill when they can escape in nearly every direction. I feel this is the root of this problem and every "fix" we make is just trying to "deal" with the issue rather than solve it.


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