So it has nothing to do with dust being a bad game?

Op your are my favourite fanboi, +1 for you

Mobius you got in to the liquor cabinet again. You do know you don't have to get proto in every suit to stay competitive. Many of us vets have a class almost complete. If not all complete. That's all you need.

By the way Sp is earned and how ccp snail of a pace anyone can take 2 years off and come back to still kick ass.
If dust is still around by then... and if players are still playing ps3.

I would also suggest that it is these individuals who experience a heightened sense of reward for their efforts at being the 'best'; a cocktail of dopamine and serotonin, adrenaline and so on that they are receiving with every match. It no doubt comes at a cost, as the come down from these neurological highs are possibly accompanied by aggression, depression and so on which leads them to lash out at the developers, the community and the game that is rewarding them.

Even the inherent nature of grinding for SPs contains addictive properties. This is why, partially, MMO's are so successful. Combine MMO mechanics with an FPS and you've got an interesting reaction happening within the players. Now, cap the SP and cut off the gamers supply of resource that allows them to advance significantly and you've created a dangerous animal.

Just my two cents.

I would also suggest that it is these individuals who experience a heightened sense of reward for their efforts at being the 'best'; a cocktail of dopamine and serotonin, adrenaline and so on that they are receiving with every match. It no doubt comes at a cost, as the come down from these neurological highs are possibly accompanied by aggression, depression and so on which leads them to lash out at the developers, the community and the game that is rewarding them.

Even the inherent nature of grinding for SPs contains addictive properties. This is why, partially, MMO's are so successful. Combine MMO mechanics with an FPS and you've got an interesting reaction happening within the players. Now, cap the SP and cut off the gamers supply of resource that allows them to advance significantly and you've created a dangerous animal.

Just my two cents.

I would also suggest that it is these individuals who experience a heightened sense of reward for their efforts at being the 'best'; a cocktail of dopamine and serotonin, adrenaline and so on that they are receiving with every match. It no doubt comes at a cost, as the come down from these neurological highs are possibly accompanied by aggression, depression and so on which leads them to lash out at the developers, the community and the game that is rewarding them.

Even the inherent nature of grinding for SPs contains addictive properties. This is why, partially, MMO's are so successful. Combine MMO mechanics with an FPS and you've got an interesting reaction happening within the players. Now, cap the SP and cut off the gamers supply of resource that allows them to advance significantly and you've created a dangerous animal.

Just my two cents.

Oh Dust isn't in a good place right now, and needs a lot of work, but like I said, that's neither here nor there.

The fact that it is in the place that it is is part of what provides this opportunity.

I'm not saying you need to have Proto to compete.

But answer me this: why do players like Moejoe Omnipotent put their skillpoint count on every video they upload?

They do? HA!

*That's sad*

HA.

So basically you've found another way to advertise Planetside 2.

Why are YOU trying to figure them out? Plus I don't understand your point. If a person leaves, their skill diminishes. No matter what. Its unfair to the person constantly progressing to keep a slot open for a player who hasn't been active in a while. You snooze, you lose. You don't train, you don't gain. Isn't that a simple concept?

Every decision made carries some penalty. How is it that you play as a merc in New Eden and you seem to constantly fail comprehending the brutal nature of its world? This is part of a fighters mentality. You understand the risks when you don't train. You understand that being at the top means you have a plethora of players working hard to snatch that title from you.

Ya know, house cats gotta stop jumping in the lions' den.

We're well aware that in 3078 after we've achieved immortality for some time through duct tape clones and DUST 514 is officially released; that the game will be a beautiful, wondrous pie in the sky.

The reason you see people who spent all that time and money on this game so upset is because they "invested" their time and money into this game, and are disappointed as both customers and gamers by not only the state of the game, but by the overall direction and way it's being approached.

We like the doom and gloom because we got so used to having our hopes shattered in front of us, that it's just so much more fun to sap the life out of everyone so no one gets disappointed when promises go up in smoke.

Again and again, I have seen one question asked in regards to our community:

Why do the people who play the game the most, and score the best, spend so much time talking about how it's doomed to fail?

Why do the people who've spent the money to run Active and Passive Boosters since day-one in order to keep their SP levels as high as possible seem so invested in "spreading the word" about how terrible it is.

The answer is simple, and will be made self-evident as they come to denounce my hypothesis:

They can be at the top when it falls.


Consider for a moment what happens when you leave a game. Naturally, even after you yourself have stopped playing, other people continue to do so. Since most shooters in particular offer Leaderboards as a way for players to rate themselves and possibly use their position for some bragging rights, leaving a game means that your space is now open to someone else.

Now, in the case of nearly all shooters, this makes no difference. In a year or maybe two at most, a new version of the game will be out, and you can get it on day one and attain your exalted position once more. Even in a persistent game like Planetside 2, you can come back to it a year or so down the line, buy some boosters, and grind your way up to the ranks of the longest-lived characters.

Dust 514 does not allow this. Even when the new SP rollover system is implemented to replace the current hard cap that resets on Wednesdays, departing Dust means that not only is your leaderboard spot open to any other player, but now you have only been gaining Passive SP in the intervening time, and will be forever behind those who didn't take a leave of absence like you did.

In layman's terms: if these people leave, they lose. Any player, maybe even one far less skilled than them, can continue to play after they've left, gain more SP than they have and now can keep ahead of them, and maybe even attain their leaderboard rank with their better gear and more advanced knowledge.

Conversely, if Dust 514 is shut down while they are still dumping cash into boosters each month and grinding day after day to keep their leaderboard positions, win/loss ratio, or whatever metric is important to them, they will forever be at the top of this game, because it is no longer there for anyone to compete with them.


Basically, stop trying to figure them out, because this attitude isn't based in logic.

It's based in ego.

I think once you get 8 to 11 million SP the rest is just cake.

A guy with 20 million SP will not be any better in a match then a guy with 9 million SP...i guess the 20 million SP guy will have more options in battle....but of course this can all be simulated by having multiple PSN accounts all earning passive SP....they may not be able to switch from a full speced scout to a fulled speced heavy mid battle but someone with multiple accounts can choose what he wants before the battle.

Anyway i am huge doomsayer and i think the way the game is right now it is doomed. Specifically new players do not stay once they get pub stomped by carried players. A game made to last 10 years cannot last very long if it is designed to drive away new players in droves.

Very well put. It was something I had considered, but didn't have a complete picture put together, and wasn't sure how to put it into words.

It certainly bares consideration.

What I was examining is the mindset of those that seem to be "in it to win it" in an extremely odd manner.

I think if they tweaked the grind, it wouldn't feel like such an 'awful experience'. When you reach cap, and are potentially only being rewarded with 1000-1500 SP at the maximum, it can feel quite burdensome. For some, I would hazard to guess that they suddenly focus on nothing but the grind and the acquisition of better gear, skill ranks, etc. This is normal, this is the MMO part of the game - but unfortunately, where in a MMO you can constantly grind out experience until you reach cap level, max skills, etc, you are unable to do that here.

The MMOFPS model is an interesting one and I enjoy the game but when I reach cap, why do I keep playing? Sure, I have fun playing and I like improving my skill, but I could gain the same level of fun/reward/skill from playing other games that don't offer me promises of chipping away at a resource that will help me enhance my gaming experience by giving me new toys to play with.

I think it is this combination of things that can bring out the frustration in the players who are desperately trying to attain that sense of reward their brain has been giving them when they suddenly encounter mechanics that are not as polished as they should be. There is nothing else for the player to do but fight and grind.

Fight. Grind. Die. Fight. Grind. Die.

It's a vicious cycle, especially when you experience several matches that go poorly. All you want is your proto weapon or shiny proto suit but after the weekly cap, the grind is atrocious.

Simply put, there is not enough to do. There is no use for isk beyond PC and PC is a limited field dominated, mostly, by larger corporations. War Points are meaningless for the time being. SP is really the only resource with any meaningful value.

Fight. Grind. Die. Fight. Grind. Die.

It took me a while to figure out why so much of the community had such venom in it so I decided to grind tonight and now I can honestly understand where they are coming from and I can see why booster packs sell. Oh, you mean I could have had an extra 50 SP on top of the 150 I just earned? That's 200 SP!

Dust needs more content and not just in the weapons, vehicles, maps or what have you department. It needs to give players more mechanics in order to truly value the game, to build a community on, otherwise it's a game that is meant to be played part-time or very casually. I can't even imagine trying to play PC currently. I'm sure its fun but sooner or later, all you have is a sandcastle and some clones. The value is extremely limited. Sooner or later, you're fighting to protect your ISK production. ISK that does nothing but allow you to gain and protect more districts.

To buy more suits.

To buy more weapons.

Fight. Grind. Die. Fight. Grind. Die.

...

Unless you're a Calogibro, then you're not dying. Jerks.

I don't want to get into mind reading.

Anyone can look at the graphs of new players and player retention and see the gloom....the glass may be half full...but the graphs show that glass draining. No amount of optimism or mind set can get away from that reality.

They are gloomy because the future looks gloomy. It really is as simple as that.

Again, though, believe it or not, you're not really who I'm looking at here.

Yeah, you make a lot of posts about the game being irreparable,

but you aren't making accounts on every gaming site on the internet and posting about Dust 514 being scrapped while CCP's servers are behing DDoSed.

There's a major difference.

Mobius you got in to the liquor cabinet again. You do know you don't have to get proto in every suit to stay competitive. Many of us vets have a class almost complete. If not all complete. That's all you need.

By the way Sp is earned and how ccp snail of a pace anyone can take 2 years off and come back to still kick ass.
If dust is still around by then... and if players are still playing ps3.

I would also suggest that it is these individuals who experience a heightened sense of reward for their efforts at being the 'best'; a cocktail of dopamine and serotonin, adrenaline and so on that they are receiving with every match. It no doubt comes at a cost, as the come down from these neurological highs are possibly accompanied by aggression, depression and so on which leads them to lash out at the developers, the community and the game that is rewarding them.

Even the inherent nature of grinding for SPs contains addictive properties. This is why, partially, MMO's are so successful. Combine MMO mechanics with an FPS and you've got an interesting reaction happening within the players. Now, cap the SP and cut off the gamers supply of resource that allows them to advance significantly and you've created a dangerous animal.

Just my two cents.

I do think it is repairable. Matchmaking is CCPs solution...it owuld be nice if they actually implemented it...or told us how it will work or told us when it will be implimented. Their silence adds to my gloom and doom.




hmmm i guess i did not know that was going on. Carry on.

Even the inclusion of a title system, like WoW, would be something. Faction Points for new suits, weapons, vehicles that have racial bonuses and unique skins. Use Faction Points to buy those things, earn titles and so on.

War Points that could do the same, lore-themed items that are re-skinned with small bonuses. You don't even need bonuses on them to make them attractive; it's just something else to do.

Grinding is fine but how you dress and present that grind is important. Every modern MMO is a grind but you need to make the mechanics of that grind, and the rewards, to be attractive.

Dust desperately needs a player economy.

PvE content would be very helpful, too, as you said.

There is a lot that could be done to make the game better but as a F2P model, along with whatever contractual agreements they have with Sony and the limitations that the size of their development team imposes, I'm sure this is more difficult than we assume. I'm sure the logistics that CCP has to go through is a headache.

f we're immortal, and can choose whatever affiliation we want, why not allow players to join up with Militias like EVE players in exchange for better benefits and maybe even faster and easier access to Faction gear?