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Pubstomping causes AFKers

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Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 314	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:09:00 - [1] - Quote Granted I've done both. And I've hated both. Here's what I mean. I've been in matches that are fun at first. Our corp has managed to get not just 6 players, but 12 players (read: two squads) in same match on the same side. It is great fun to be able to stomp the hell out of well organized squads. But after a while, it the fun dies out, or we start going up against people who aren't even in a squad and are a bunch of newberries after "graduating" from the Academy. I also notice the harder the pubstomp, the more likely people are to AFK inside the MCC, whether that be just sitting there idly while waiting for the match to end, "rage-quitting", or sniping out of the MCC and the redlines. Now granted you could try sneaking around the back, but how? Even more organized teams will kill you coming out of the MCC. Even if you hit the ground, you are guaranteed to be alive for an average of 10 seconds before run over by an LAV, Thale'd, Ishukone Forge'd, or Wirkomi Swarm'd. And I've been the player that has been pubstomped as well. I'll give it my all and setup perimeters, infiltrated from the back, given my team PLENTY of spawn points, only to watch blueberries not use them effectively or watch as the enemy easily adapt to the situation and cause all my efforts to be wasted. Wasted ISK and time is not beneficial. So what do you do? Gather resources in the best way possible and in some cases, the safest way possible. Right now, sitting in the MCC can yield some 100K isk and around 3 to 5K SP (more with boosters). Why leave the MCC when you know that a full team that is well known and very good is waiting for you on the other side? On top of that, many - myself included - hate the fact that it is possible to generate passive income and ISK for doing nothing. Even though I admittedly AFK, sometimes, I've already gone negative into my wallet. Sure, KDR doesn't matter but underlying under every FPSer's mind, they know it can show overall performance. Over my career, my KDR has dropped switching to a logistics suit user from around 2.2 to a 1.87. Given it's the same person, who would you choose: me at 2.2 KDR or me at 1.87 KDR? My favorite matches are when games are fun and games are close with both sides trying all different things to get victory. But right now, pubstompers are killing the game's population by overwhelming new players. These new players give up and you lose your player base and your player count, or you see people resorting to being an "inactive" player as setting up a campfire in the MCC. So next time someone cries about the MCC camping, remember to take a step back and see if they are legitimately trying to solve the problem, or if they are simply the cause of the problem. TL;DR: Pubstomping is causing people to AFK in the MCC, or worse yet is castrating the growth of the player base.
Blanket jr Krullefor Organization Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:13:00 - [2] - Quote Yes so what? Afking is a viable tactic here. HTFU
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 189	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:15:00 - [3] - Quote 1.87 your a rare breed in this game a true logi
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 315	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:24:00 - [4] - Quote Blanket jr wrote: Yes so what? Afking is a viable tactic here. HTFU HTFU? Do you even know what that means? And that's another thing: the "HTFU" rhetoric has gotten so out of control here it's almost unbearable to hear it anymore. During the days of EVE, it was used in a classier tone. It was directed at those who were crying about something that seemed unfair, but was connected with the fact that they wanted to be catered to. The fact that you are using it here proves to me even more that this player base is dying. It is sad to watch.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 181	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:26:00 - [5] - Quote I have posted along these same lines here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1028040#post1028040 not so much on the pub stomping but on the mcc afking... many others have posted on the pubstomping and the afking... many many many many others.... whats my point? that either ccp doesn't care or hasn't got to working on the issue yet or hasn't found a viable solution... whatever the case its very sad isn't it?
TheAmazing FlyingPig Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 1743	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:26:00 - [6] - Quote What causes AFK'ers is the lack of content, not necessarily pubstompers (although I will agree that it is a contributing factor). It's no fun to keep doing the same thing thousands of times over if it means nothing.
Allah's Snackbar Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 357	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:31:00 - [7] - Quote If they get rid of AFKing I would estimate at least a 20% drop in player numbers overnight with new players unable or unwilling to earn SP by playing. It would make NPE even worse. CCP can't afford that - have enough critical issues already.
The Attorney General ZionTCD 389	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:34:00 - [8] - Quote The SP sinks cause AFKing. Poor shooter mechanics cause it. So does bad balancing. Lack of matchmaking, the SP gap, the same maps with the same people, 10 weeks of capping out for proto, all play their part. But the biggest culprit is CCP, who need to keep counts up so they don't do anything about it.
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 181	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:34:00 - [9] - Quote Blanket jr wrote: Yes so what? Afking is a viable tactic here. HTFU when people like you quit playing this game it will start being a good game... you are the problem in new eden....
Seymor Krelborn DUST University Ivy League 181	Posted - 2013.07.14 22:36:00 - [10] - Quote Allah's Snackbar wrote: If they get rid of AFKing I would estimate at least a 20% drop in player numbers overnight with new players unable or unwilling to earn SP by playing. It would make NPE even worse. CCP can't afford that - have enough critical issues already. if this is true and this is why CCP leaves afkers be.... then this game is already dead.... what they need is a real solution not a band aid.

Orenji Jiji Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 209	Posted - 2013.07.14 23:09:00 - [11] - Quote Boredom causes AFK. I can be pubstomped whole day, will just alternate my tactics and adjust to cost effective fittings. Will not RQ or go AFK. But I've been here for a year and it's basically the same game all the time. But I still want my weekly SP ration. So if I can I will AFK and do something productive IRL (teh forums, hah). Sometimes after getting my cap I will squad up and play with my friends for no bonus SP whatsoever, but meh. There is nothing to do here. CCP doesn't care. They've put the mechanic in place and never said it's wrong to do. So yeah.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 734	Posted - 2013.07.14 23:16:00 - [12] - Quote I've been AFKing in ambush quite a lot lately, some MCC AFK... but it just feels so wrong. I'm just tired of all the team-stacking going on in bush, and I don't want to be forced to have my own 6 man squad every night in order to have some decent fun. So what if I don't feel like socializing, why should I be punished for it? We need no-squad options ASAP!
Banning Hammer Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 1252	Posted - 2013.07.14 23:21:00 - [13] - Quote To right i AFK... i don't giving that guys anymore free kills.. as soon as i see the Pubstomping starting, i find a nice hill in the red-line, and kill FREE LAV's for the duration of the battle....they can **** right off with their Proto BS....
KalOfTheRathi Talon Strike Force LTD Covert Intervention 532	Posted - 2013.07.14 23:23:00 - [14] - Quote Orenji Jiji wrote: Boredom causes AFK. Too true. The game is very unbalanced. We were supposed to get a new Battle Finder for Uprising (mid May as I recall -_-). The big item was a Filter to allow blocking out vehicles, Proto gear, SP > N, SP < N and a few others that I forget. Never happened. May never happen. Okay, probably will never happen. If they want to fix the Murder Taxi Game, which they don't, the simplest solution is to remove the ability to kill with a LAV. We know they can track it because it shows on the kill feed. Treat like 'clone died'. Currently they make for a boring game and induce quite the rage for many players. We had one last night that went 24/0 and most just left the battle field but hung around for the SP. Basically, the game we have is the one that has been foisted off on us by CCP/Shanghai. It is vastly different than what was promised, different from what had existed and they are not making it better. Thus, this is the game they wanted to deliver in the first place. A boring grinder with new releases that are meant to fix something that never should have been released in the first place. The only reason to stay is to hang out with friends. Yep, Small Missile Turrets are better. But they still don't work correctly, nor will they ever.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 321	Posted - 2013.07.14 23:37:00 - [15] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: If they want to fix the Murder Taxi Game, which they don't, the simplest solution is to remove the ability to kill with a LAV. Actually, all they would have to do is remove the BPO for the LAV and replace with a BPO for a dropship. After all, those are paper thin and still get you to where you need to be. Aspiring pilots get to learn without ISK sink. Free LAVs are not a problem there are no more free LAVs. But then I would have to let go of my two Saga BPOs. But if that's what it has to come down to, I'm all for making those into Myron or Viper BPOs.
LT SHANKS Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 211	Posted - 2013.07.14 23:40:00 - [16] - Quote If my team is getting pubstomped, I gear into my proto HMG Heavy and go solo. I do not AFK: it's boring. I rather go all out and lose 10+ proto fittings whilst doing something rather than doing nothing at all.
TEBOW BAGGINS Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN. 739	Posted - 2013.07.15 00:17:00 - [17] - Quote i gave up AFK to go LLAV
Short Change Heroine Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2013.07.15 00:42:00 - [18] - Quote I simply stay inside the MCC and leave myself there if it's a bad game. I'm not sat watching the screen until the game ends like people seem to think. Can't even say I get bored. Instead I'll go and read that book I have. Sit out in the sun and check on it five minutes later. Go for a shower, get something to eat. The list is pretty endless. So no, you can say htfu or any other thing you want but why? I don't have to. It's not the game mechanics or the maps that make me do it, it's how amazingly one sided almost every game seems to be. You can tell really quickly which side is getting red lined and no matter which side I'm on, it's boring. I'm not a spawn camper, I won't hassle those who jump out the MCC. Nor will I jump out the MCC to feed someone elses K/D ratio. No idea how the fix it. But think.. if people see a skirmish game like the average pub stomp, do you really believe they will eventually move on to PC.. which is way worse for stomping newer corps?
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 324	Posted - 2013.07.15 00:57:00 - [19] - Quote Short Change Heroine wrote: But think.. if people see a skirmish game like the above, do you really believe they will eventually move on to PC.. which is way worse for stomping newer corps? And there in lies the dilemma. Which way should Dust go toward? Make the game hardcore, lose player base to a simple handful of elite. Make the game cater too much toward the casuals, it becomes to easy and boring to the elite and then you have to be in other competition with other casual FPS games. I don't have a solution off the top of my head either, but the EVE-Dust link needs to open up more. Allow us to become more apart of the EVE community. I feel like most of these battles still don't matter or make a difference in the EVE universe as of yet. I understand we can't flood the economies yet; that's not what I was getting at, but allow us gather resources to put an end to AFKing in the MCC. (Would you rather sit and not do anything in the MCC granting no SP and no ISK? Or would you rather do a game mode that allows you to somehow harvest materials and ISK for your gear, allowing you to do something while honing your FPS and tactical skills?) Or allow contracts to exist between EVE and Dust. Yes, EVE players can send money to Dust players but what if EVE players could contract a corporation to attack a district? And what if there was an initial ISK investment on the table for the mercs to buy gear and clones, equipped and ready for battle, and then receive the lucrative amount when they capture the district? Or better yet, put up an "open" contract that gives anyone who attacks it a chance to win whatever the contract amount is on that district? In any case, we need more influence in the EVE universe, and not just be some side show jester joke.
First Prophet Jaguar Empire 630	Posted - 2013.07.15 00:58:00 - [20] - Quote +1 for the tl;dr.

Billy7789 Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 0	Posted - 2013.07.15 03:36:00 - [21] - Quote What a great read
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 163	Posted - 2013.07.15 05:25:00 - [22] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: Granted I've done both. And I've hated both. So next time someone cries about the MCC camping, remember to take a step back and see if they are legitimately trying to solve the problem, or if they are simply the cause of the problem. TL;DR: Pubstomping is causing people to AFK in the MCC, or worse yet is castrating the growth of the player base. It's actually getting worse than this (at least during the Mordu's Challlenge). The top teams seem to be getting even more brutal and deliberately grinding the other team into submission. Get 10 guys into the match, pop 5 LAVs and all spawn with flaylocks, now chase down individuals pubbers with 10 proto-using, LAV-driving, flaylock spamming guys on 1 militia dude. Its like its not enough to redline, you have to be a dipshit and ***** about it as well. Single guy dares to come out of the MCC, chase him with your whole team, murder taxi him then teabag him until he afks again. Maybe send him a **** email after the match as well. I'm sure some clown will claim this is part of the meta game and welcome to New Eden, because you know, that's awesome for the health of the game.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION 971	Posted - 2013.07.15 05:39:00 - [23] - Quote Kaze Eyrou wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: If they want to fix the Murder Taxi Game, which they don't, the simplest solution is to remove the ability to kill with a LAV. Actually, all they would have to do is remove the BPO for the LAV and replace with a BPO for a dropship. After all, those are paper thin and still get you to where you need to be. Aspiring pilots get to learn without ISK sink. Free LAVs are not a problem there are no more free LAVs. But then I would have to let go of my two Saga BPOs. But if that's what it has to come down to, I'm all for making those into Myron or Viper BPOs. This. Also, I see many complaints about the current system, but c'mon, where's the suggestions for new, and hopefully better, systems? I have advocated constantly for: 1)the need for all items to be unlocked, without SP required to unlock them. 2)the need for prices of advanced and prototype gear to go up, high enough to rival tank prices currently. 3)the need for SP to only be used to improve the effectiveness of items, but per variant instead of per weapon, module, vehicle, etc. basically, if ISK is used to balance the gap between vets and newbies, then all this goes away. Teams of 6-12 can only do so much if they run basic gear in games because advanced will cost too much. EXCEPT IN PC! Which is where prototype gear and advanced gear are used. In PC (and with the latest PC update we're already seeing the price of clones and biomass go up), ISK rewards should be huge compared to instant battles, where you can only make profit if you run militia or basic gear. Dying once in advanced or prototype gear in a public match should be so expensive you're set back 1-4 games. Furthermore, the gap between vets and newbs balances itself, if vets decides to use expensive gear, their wallets drop more quickly compared to newbies who constantly run militia gear. And still there is a sense of specialisation and progression because SP is there, for you to improve your favourite modules and weapons, but not whole categories. The skills will be very specific, skill books will cost more ISK (to further highlight ISK's importance) and even with skills they shouldn't provide game-changing bonuses. Many have argued against this proposal, but to be honest, no one's come up with a strong reason as to why this isn't better than the current system.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 163	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:00:00 - [24] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: I have advocated constantly for: 1)the need for all items to be unlocked, without SP required to unlock them. 2)the need for prices of advanced and prototype gear to go up, high enough to rival tank prices currently. 3)the need for SP to only be used to improve the effectiveness of items, but per variant instead of per weapon, module, vehicle, etc. basically, if ISK is used to balance the gap between vets and newbies, then all this goes away. Teams of 6-12 can only do so much if they run basic gear in games because advanced will cost too much. EXCEPT IN PC! Which is where prototype gear and advanced gear are used. In PC (and with the latest PC update we're already seeing the price of clones and biomass go up), ISK rewards should be huge compared to instant battles, where you can only make profit if you run militia or basic gear. Dying once in advanced or prototype gear in a public match should be so expensive you're set back 1-4 games. Furthermore, the gap between vets and newbs balances itself, if vets decides to use expensive gear, their wallets drop more quickly compared to newbies who constantly run militia gear. ISK is a terrible way to balance things, it creates all sorts of negative behaviours. Fear of death is already why you see redline sniping and no one willing to play to objectives. It also does nothing about the actual in-game problem, ISK costs are a meta level above the gun game itself. Your suggestion also creates even more wealthy versus poor class warfare. If you're in a big corp who wins tonnes of PC battles as you suggest then you can bring your enormous wallet to bear when you play in regular battles whereas the other guy hasn't go the wallet to compete. They made the difference between militia and proto far too great. The power gap between total newbie suit to best fit suit on planet should have been no more than 40-50% with a smaller price gap as well. So Tl;dr, they should go in the opposite direction to your suggestion.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 95	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:20:00 - [25] - Quote There's no point playing if you're not in a decently competitive squad. Your team will get crushed and you'll lose money and it will be boring. Usually when I squad up with guys in my alliance we either do well or have a fighting chance. But if there are 2 squads working together on the other side against our one it's tough. CCP needs to add a corp search interface to the merc quarters and enable users to see the stats of corps and alliances so they can have the info they need to join a corp that will help them compete. And having proto geared up squads going up against lower level players is like allowing a light weight boxer to fight a heavy weight. I don't know what the solution is but they need to bring some balance fast. If faction warfare can be changed so that it includes all game modes and offers better and unique rewards then that would draw away a critical number of the pubstompers I think. Guys like CEOPyrex could go have their fun there and get better rewards, and they would face better competition, which would be funner. Lower SP players would then face more balanced competition in instant matches too, which would be funner for them. Everybody wins.
Xero The Mishima Vherokior Combat Logistics Minmatar Republic 132	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:32:00 - [26] - Quote I like to pub stomp. To me it's fun.
Karazantor Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 81	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:40:00 - [27] - Quote So many really good points from basically everyone. The Mordus challenge has certainly given certain teams the opportunity and incentive to pubstomp away and generally be complete pr***s, as an example of one recurring problem with the game. However, I can't help but feel that, bar lack of content (I mean i've been here since Aug-Sep last year and STILL the same game modes?) the big problems are map and team size. There is only so much you can do with a team of 16 on a small map. Certain overpowered items or players not able to/willing to pull their weight, even in limited numbers per side, have a massive influence on the game. I don't know the solution given we are using the lol PS3 and its limitations, however its very hard to believe this is what CCP had in mind when thinking of the game.
The Robot Devil BetaMax. CRONOS. 639	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:46:00 - [28] - Quote TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: What causes AFK'ers is the lack of content, not necessarily pubstompers (although I will agree that it is a contributing factor). It's no fun to keep doing the same thing thousands of times over if it means nothing. The amount of SP gained for showing up is too high. It is a hard problem to fix because lazy and greedy people will always find a way to cheat.
Willie Fistersnatch Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire 7	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:50:00 - [29] - Quote Sand box causes AFK ers. people will always take the path of least resistence. if they werent afk ing theyd be redline sniping. some people arent cut out for the frontline.
zzZaXxx The Exemplars Top Men. 95	Posted - 2013.07.15 06:54:00 - [30] - Quote The Robot Devil wrote: TheAmazing FlyingPig wrote: What causes AFK'ers is the lack of content, not necessarily pubstompers (although I will agree that it is a contributing factor). It's no fun to keep doing the same thing thousands of times over if it means nothing. The amount of SP gained for showing up is too high. It is a hard problem to fix because lazy and greedy people will always find a way to cheat. I'm sorry but if I decided to play a little Dust but can't get into an alliance squad and about 1/3 through the match it becomes clear that a) my team has no chance and b) the only thing left in this match is for me to lose money while being frustrated by ineffectual blueberries and OP protos, I'm not going to keep throwing myself into the fire. MCC and switch to TV.



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