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RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
254
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Posted - 2013.07.12 03:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4843
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Posted - 2013.07.12 03:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
I like this idea a lot. How many spare batteries do you think a laser or scrambler should carry? I'm thinking 7 for laser rifles, and 10 for scrambler rifles. An assault scrambler rifle should overheat when about 70-80 automatic shots have been fired to keep it consistent with the current magazine size. |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
255
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Posted - 2013.07.12 03:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I like this idea a lot. How many spare batteries do you think a laser or scrambler should carry? I'm thinking 7 for laser rifles, and 10 for scrambler rifles. An assault scrambler rifle should overheat when about 70-80 automatic shots have been fired to keep it consistent with the current magazine size. Somewhere around that |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
259
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Posted - 2013.07.12 04:15:00 -
[4] - Quote
Plas One. |
Kador Ouryon
Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn
106
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Posted - 2013.07.12 04:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells Fully read thread changed mind instantly.... interesting thought |
Terry Webber
Turalyon Plus
233
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Posted - 2013.07.12 04:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
I like the OP's idea. It makes more sense for laser weapons to have batteries than actual ammo.
PS: Change the title of the thread. People might get the wrong idea. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4849
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Posted - 2013.07.12 05:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
I have this tagged as a favourite. |
Logi Bro
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
1810
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Posted - 2013.07.12 05:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4849
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 05:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand. I suggested in an earlier comment that the ASCR should overheat after firing 70-80 automatic shots to be more consistent with its current magazine size. Also the amount of spare batteries could be much lower than the spare magazines of regular weapons as a tradeoff for the potential infinite ammo. |
ALPHA DECRIPTER
M.E.R.C. Conventional Forces D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
57
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Posted - 2013.07.12 11:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
When I read this I thought you meant that you wanted all the ammo to be in a single clip/battery lol.
With this idea I would suggest a VERY low bat count and increased overheat rate for all weapons. Your idea, admittingly, would in fact make laser weapons more tactical and give a risk-vs-reward kind of feeling to them. |
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Daedric Lothar
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
1196
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Posted - 2013.07.12 11:41:00 -
[11] - Quote
This is cool, +1 OP.
Though I would keep the battery count extremely small, between 1-3 extras. |
Godin Thekiller
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
252
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Posted - 2013.07.12 11:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
If they make it coll off way slower than now, okay. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
733
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Posted - 2013.07.12 11:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells
Chances are in the future super compact nuclear cells, or very efficient hydrogen fuel cells, will lead to these types of weapons having an infinite set of ammunition. |
Daedric Lothar
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
1196
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells Chances are in the future super compact nuclear cells, or very efficient hydrogen fuel cells, will lead to these types of weapons having an infinite set of ammunition.
Honestly I doubt it, when it comes to weapons.. there would always be the balance of damage, effect and ammo (and a few other things to). I'm sure if we could make a low damage weapon that could fire infinitely, instead we would crank up the damage to insane heights, enough to put a hole in a tank and give it 1-7 shots
that sounds interesting... Adjustable damage.. Like a phaser in Star Trek |
DusterBuster
DUST University Ivy League
216
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Posted - 2013.07.12 12:30:00 -
[15] - Quote
I recently suggested something similar in one of my own threads. However, I suggested that laser weapons behave closer to plasma weapons in halo. You have an energy reserve that acts as your ammo supply, but no magazines. That means that as long as you don't overheat, you can fire until you run out of energy. This way, logis can still resupply you as well.
Either way, I think having both overheat and reloads on laser weapons is a little redundant. |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
266
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Posted - 2013.07.13 04:23:00 -
[16] - Quote
Any more inputs? |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1298
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Posted - 2013.07.13 04:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand.
Increasing the overheat as well as slightly increasing the overheat reduction buff from the amarr suits would, I believe, not only address the general issue but also give more value to the amarr assault suit which is looking like it needs some love.
It'll take some fine tuning to be sure but I think the OP is going in an interesting direction +1 OP. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax. CRONOS.
2442
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Posted - 2013.07.13 06:00:00 -
[18] - Quote
I hate to sound knee-jerk about this, but this seems like something that would be really hard to implement without breaking anything.
I think keeping batteries as disposable power sources that work like magazines is probably the safer bet. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1042
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 06:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
if they double the time it takes for cooldown I can get behind this. adding 50% to the time to cool down at the least. |
dday3six
Intrepidus XI EoN.
84
|
Posted - 2013.07.13 06:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
I wish Scrambler and Laser weaponry worked similarly to Plasma weapons in Space Marine. Basically you have an "ammo" store but instead of reloading you hold the reload button to vent heat. |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4938
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Posted - 2013.07.14 12:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Logi Bro wrote:So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand. I suggested in an earlier comment that the ASCR should overheat after firing 70-80 automatic shots to be more consistent with its current magazine size. Also the amount of spare batteries could be much lower than the spare magazines of regular weapons as a tradeoff for the potential infinite ammo. Would also like to add that overheat is much less penalizing than simply reloading, so that's also a balancing feature. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4938
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Posted - 2013.07.14 16:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Also scrambler pistol should get overheat as well |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis Covert Intervention
1303
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 16:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Logi Bro wrote:So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand. I suggested in an earlier comment that the ASCR should overheat after firing 70-80 automatic shots to be more consistent with its current magazine size. Also the amount of spare batteries could be much lower than the spare magazines of regular weapons as a tradeoff for the potential infinite ammo. Would also like to add that overheat is much less penalizing than simply reloading, so that's also a balancing feature.
Could you elaborate on this?
I haven't run numbers on the time in each case (especially with all the possible skill and weapon permutations included) but reload takes some time and you can weapon switch while overheat takes some time you cannot weapon switch and you take damage (assuming that the weapon actually overheated rather than just had some heat build up which are are allowing to dissipate).
I'd be interested to know which you meant, full overheat or only dissipation as well as your thoughts on what could be done to balance those two so the combination was in the right spot.
Cheers, Cross |
XV1
Ninth Legion Freelance
42
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
I like the idea but why not make the batteries slowly recharge making less and less of them be useable till you visit a nanohive or supply depot. Then make overheating take a chunk of battery life. Current battery technology decays over time and with excessive use.
Only issue is scrambler pistols which should function more like a scrambler rifle anyway. |
Lt Royal
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
136
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Posted - 2013.07.14 17:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells
I think Amarr weaponry should work similar to EVE Amarr weaponry; Frequency Crystals.
So instead of this battery you talk about maybe the battery could be a crystal pack instead. Depending on the crystal type you use, would change its effective ranges and the way to know if someone is using close quarter or a long range crystals would be the colour of the beams. This could also add a new skill subcategory under weaponry = Ammunition; including the different racial ammunition types; Laser, Projectile, Explosive, Plasma and Magnetic (Rail Gun Weaponry)
Frequency Crystals. Basic Yellow = Average RoF & average damage.
Advanced Not too sure if Advanced ammunition type would be needed. Instead the ammunition skill would increase the longevity of the crystals. (Larger clip size.)
Prototype Red = Long Range - Low RoF but high damage. Green = Medium Ranged - Balanced between the two. Purple = Close Quarters - High Rof but low damage. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet Top Men.
1044
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
there's no particular need to make weapons work identically to EVE. make those weapon modifications later down the line.
example: multifrequency cuts the range in half but increases damage significantly for a laser as a permanent mod on a specific fit.
antimatter charges for the plasma cannon: cuts the utility of the arcing range for a straighter, shorter shot of about 50 meters tops but hits harder
EMP rounds for the HMG for those pesky shield tankers.
I'm of the opinion that ammo variations should be modifications you put to each fit for increased utility. |
dday3six
Intrepidus XI EoN.
98
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 19:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Lt Royal wrote:RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells I think Amarr weaponry should work similar to EVE Amarr weaponry; Frequency Crystals. So instead of this battery you talk about maybe the battery could be a crystal pack instead. Depending on the crystal type you use, would change its effective ranges and the way to know if someone is using close quarter or a long range crystals would be the colour of the beams. This could also add a new skill subcategory under weaponry = Ammunition; including the different racial ammunition types; Laser, Projectile, Explosive, Plasma and Magnetic (Rail Gun Weaponry) Frequency Crystals.BasicYellow = Average RoF & average damage. AdvancedNot too sure if Advanced ammunition type would be needed. Instead the ammunition skill would increase the longevity of the crystals. (Larger clip size.) Prototype Red = Long Range - Low RoF but high damage. Green = Medium Ranged - Balanced between the two. Purple = Close Quarters - High Rof but low damage.
In the future it would be nice if several weapons had customizable options like this. |
Iskandar Zul Karnain
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
1269
|
Posted - 2013.07.14 22:15:00 -
[28] - Quote
I'm not crazy about this idea. Unless were giving overheat reduction a moderate boost for the Amarr suit I just see this as crippling the ScR. Overheats happen. Sometimes its necessary to intentionally overheat to down an enemy like a heavy. I see the risk far outweighing reward on this one.
Now...what if ScR did more damage as it got hotter? I also like the idea of frequency crystals. Would love to have builds for different ranges. |
Dagger-Two
Villore Joint Task Force
39
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Posted - 2013.07.15 00:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
The 'magazines' we currently have for laser weapons ARE batteries. Lasers require large amounts of power to be effective weapons; the three laser weapons currently in dust all use high-density battery packs. You still only get so many shots out of a battery.
For a heavy laser weapon, I could see it being tied into a heavy suit itself, having an ammo 'pool' it draws from, which slowly regenerates. Infinite ammo, but slow recharging compared to how fast power is used when firing the weapon. |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
121
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Also scrambler pistol should get overheat as well What? Why? |
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True Adamance
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
686
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Posted - 2013.07.15 02:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Also scrambler pistol should get overheat as well What? Why? Yeah I kind of imagine the charge not being enough to actually generate such intense heat that the weapon would overload. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
5005
|
Posted - 2013.07.16 08:20:00 -
[32] - Quote
Arx Ardashir wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Also scrambler pistol should get overheat as well What? Why? So it can have potential infinite ammo. Should overheat after 6 quickly fired shots, but the operation skill should allow for more shots to be fired before overheating. |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
452
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Posted - 2013.07.18 09:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
Back on top |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
5068
|
Posted - 2013.07.21 11:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:Logi Bro wrote:So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand. I suggested in an earlier comment that the ASCR should overheat after firing 70-80 automatic shots to be more consistent with its current magazine size. Also the amount of spare batteries could be much lower than the spare magazines of regular weapons as a tradeoff for the potential infinite ammo. Would also like to add that overheat is much less penalizing than simply reloading, so that's also a balancing feature. Could you elaborate on this? I haven't run numbers on the time in each case (especially with all the possible skill and weapon permutations included) but reload takes some time and you can weapon switch while overheat takes some time you cannot weapon switch and you take damage (assuming that the weapon actually overheated rather than just had some heat build up which are are allowing to dissipate). I'd be interested to know which you meant, full overheat or only dissipation as well as your thoughts on what could be done to balance those two so the combination was in the right spot. Cheers, Cross
Just noticed this post, and my typo. I meant more penalizing, not less. |
Karazantor
Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation
98
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Posted - 2013.07.21 11:49:00 -
[35] - Quote
Logi Bro wrote:So if you are smart enough to not let your weapon overheat, it would literally have infinite ammo? Idk if you have used the AScR before, but I have literally never overheated it, unless they bump up overheat rate on all weapons it might get out of hand.
ASCR overheats into the second mag of constant firing. In a heavy firefight it does happen reasonably regularly. |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
545
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Posted - 2013.10.02 15:34:00 -
[36] - Quote
Bump |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
550
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Posted - 2013.10.03 09:40:00 -
[37] - Quote
Bump |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3255
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 10:12:00 -
[38] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells
This is actually a really kick ass idea. All of my +1's. |
Draco Cerberus
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
355
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Posted - 2013.10.03 13:42:00 -
[39] - Quote
The problem I see with this thought is that there is built in burn out of crystals already on Eve side. This means that after a certain number of shots you need to get more ammo. It also means that to implement the type of battery you suggest we would quite possibly be re-visiting how crystals work in Eve as well. The current clip is very much a representation of crystal burnout in Eve and should not be construed as a number of rounds but current implementation does just that. The ammo for a laser rifle should not be infinite and it should also not just stack more ammo, but rather be one clip = one crystal, each merc has X number of crystals, meaning X number of reloads. Stepping on a nanohive for more ammo should replace a crystal, but on a percentage basis not all at once. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance
3660
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 19:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Draco Cerberus wrote:It also means that to implement the type of battery you suggest we would quite possibly be re-visiting how crystals work in Eve as well.
No, it doesn't. |
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zibathy numbertwo
Nox Aeterna Security
184
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 21:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
It shouldn't have unlimited, it should simply be able to fire until the crystal breaks. How the hell would you just magically have ******* infinite shots? That doesn't even make sense. If it ended up this way, you should have crystals that have extremely high ammo output (not infinite) so long as you don't overheat and break them. That way it actually makes sense and fits with lore...
Are you seriously suggesting that so long as I don't overheat I have unlimited ammo? How is that fair at all? AND I get 3 more chances if I fail? I won't even consider supporting this unless you follow my above paragraph. |
KING CHECKMATE
TEAM SATISFACTION
1533
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 21:48:00 -
[42] - Quote
RuckingFetard wrote:By the title, I mean that all Amarr weapons use batteries instead of magazines/clips/whatever, which are destroyed when you overheat your weapon. So, if you carry Amarr weapons, you will also have a few spare cells
I like this idea.Gives a different gamestyle: Me using BOTH weapons i will say how i THINK it should be.
IMO= MEchanic: GÖª Battery cells Heavily consume nanohives,at the point a compact one will only restock 1 GÖª Each time one of these laser weapons OVERHEATS, the current battery cell is destroyed. GÖª A skilled player CAN however, despite the new difficulties, never actually have to reload resulting in an inherent advantage. There is case of players (like me) that overheat the weapon at MOST once per game, or NEVER.... GÖª In order to reduce the ''OP'' potential of these weapons, the NUMBER of cells, needs to be reduced, making ALL of these weapons highly technical.
Scrambler Rifles: More Promt to OVERHEAT. Total Cells 4 Assault Scrambler Rifle: Having less change to overheat and in order to promote firing in bursts at longer ranges, the ASCR has only 2 cells. A good player with properly fitted suit can HOWEVER avoid overheat ,resulting in VERY prolonged fire. Laser Rifle: Not to promt to overheat. Having a Higher feedback damage , the laser rifle is compensated with higher spare cells than the ASCR. Total 3.
When we FINALLY get MLT variants of these weapons, they should have STD level stats plus only have 2 cells.
my 2 cents |
Fizzer94
L.O.T.I.S.
269
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 22:07:00 -
[43] - Quote
zibathy numbertwo wrote:It shouldn't have unlimited, it should simply be able to fire until the crystal breaks. How the hell would you just magically have ******* infinite shots? That doesn't even make sense. If it ended up this way, you should have crystals that have extremely high ammo output (not infinite) so long as you don't overheat and break them. That way it actually makes sense and fits with lore...
Are you seriously suggesting that so long as I don't overheat I have unlimited ammo? How is that fair at all? AND I get 3 more chances if I fail? I won't even consider supporting this unless you follow my above paragraph.
Miniaturized antimatter(the Amarr use this)/fusion/fission/neutron reactors. Practically infinite ammunition(enough that the weapon will rust way before you run out out of energy). It's hull breaches when you overheat, then you need a new one, which you only carry 2-3 extras and can't get more of anywhere. This isn't magic, this is science, and this is actually what we will likely use in the future. |
Garth Mandra
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
138
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 23:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
Infinite ammo seems like a little too much.
One thing I would like though is for all the ammo to be in one clip (so no reloading etc) and for heat management to be more of a thing.
Also the current overheat lockup is a pain in the ass. |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
556
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Posted - 2013.10.04 09:26:00 -
[45] - Quote
Bump |
RuckingFetard
Better Hide R Die
556
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Posted - 2013.10.05 09:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
Bump.
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The Black Jackal
The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine
880
|
Posted - 2013.10.05 10:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:zibathy numbertwo wrote:It shouldn't have unlimited, it should simply be able to fire until the crystal breaks. How the hell would you just magically have ******* infinite shots? That doesn't even make sense. If it ended up this way, you should have crystals that have extremely high ammo output (not infinite) so long as you don't overheat and break them. That way it actually makes sense and fits with lore...
Are you seriously suggesting that so long as I don't overheat I have unlimited ammo? How is that fair at all? AND I get 3 more chances if I fail? I won't even consider supporting this unless you follow my above paragraph. Miniaturized antimatter(the Amarr use this)/fusion/fission/neutron reactors. Practically infinite ammunition(enough that the weapon will rust way before you run out out of energy). It's hull breaches when you overheat, then you need a new one, which you only carry 2-3 extras and can't get more of anywhere. This isn't magic, this is science, and this is actually what we will likely use in the future.
Miniaturized Fusion Reactors / Anti-Matter Reactors on a weapon like this. I will agree with the 'large pool of ammunition' but even fusion needs fuel, as does Anti-Matter and it will run out. The ones that will 'outlast the shell' are large, supercollider-size (look up the Supercollider for the 'size' only) that have a vast pool of fuel to burn for a long, long time. Miniaturized ones, even if functional, will have limited fuel. And should they overheat, you wont simply be burned and recover, you'll explode. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI
7213
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Posted - 2013.11.24 20:35:00 -
[48] - Quote
I still like this weird idea
Gû¦Gû+Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of the threads // Forum alt Gû¦Gû+
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Mordecai Sanguine
What The French
147
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Posted - 2013.11.24 21:07:00 -
[49] - Quote
Actually ScR and Nearly have infinite Ammo. I get 30 kills before running out of ammo with my ScR So the idea of Batteries is really cool. (And they should takes a lot of nanites when resupply) |
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