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CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
455
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
It's simple, really. There is a reason some skills have more people putting SP into them than others- they have an unfair advantage.
By allowing players to respec every month, CCP can quantify which weapons are becoming too popular, and possibly, overpowered.
The respecs stop when every skill has relatively similar numbers of players speccing into them. That is the definition of balance, and would create more diversity on the battlefield.
Bring the hate. I have my helmet ready. |
Xender17
Intrepidus XI EoN.
314
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
No... It destroys vehicles. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
455
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Xender17 wrote:No... It destroys vehicles.
How? |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
860
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
i've said this same thing so many times.
Only way to really determine if something is fotm is to allow people a no consequence chance to spec into it.
If we had monthly respecs... I can guarantee you would see A LOT more flaylocks and LLAVs on the field right now... make it a hell of a lot easier to identify which weapons are OP and which weapons need work.
but... just give it a few mins and all the eve fanbois will begin..
"NO MOAR REPSECS EVAR!!!!1111oneoneone"
If you want a new weapon you better grind 2 months for it damn it! Otherwise it kills immersion1!!!!
Honestly better off quitting than having to grind again... oh wait look what 95% of the people who try this game out do :/ |
Eriknaught
Vader's Taco Shack
34
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:14:00 -
[5] - Quote
In before cat slaughter. I brought the beers, who's got popcorn ? |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
860
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
I would also be totally fine if we stopped respecs once this game is out of beta.. but until then... how about we actually beta test these new changes? |
We are 138
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
101
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
You must have made mistakes in your current build. You must also have the inability to save back a mil or so of SP. These are your problems. NO MORE RESPECS. Stop spending all your SP on the flavor of the week. We know about all the upcoming changes and if you can't save the SP then you don't get to play with then new toys. Simple as that. people wailing for respecs remind me of the kid that throws a temper tantrum and rolls around on the floor screaming trying to get your way. Instead of a respec you need a time out. |
Killar-12
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
107
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Eriknaught wrote:In before cat slaughter. I brought the beers, who's got popcorn ? I brought some popcorn here's some. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
861
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
We are 138 wrote:NO MORE RESPECS.
Hey 3 minutes! I was right!
Figured it wouldn't take long. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
455
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
We are 138 wrote:You must have made mistakes in your current build. You must also have the inability to save back a mil or so of SP. These are your problems. NO MORE RESPECS. Stop spending all your SP on the flavor of the week. We know about all the upcoming changes and if you can't save the SP then you don't get to play with then new toys. Simple as that. people wailing for respecs remind me of the kid that throws a temper tantrum and rolls around on the floor screaming trying to get your way. Instead of a respec you need a time out.
That is so far from the actual issue. I specced into LLAVs, tanks, and callogi with noob tube. I'm good with all 3 and I enjoy them. I wouldnt change anything about my build other than maybe not skill into missile turrets but thats it.
The respec will show you what is too powerful through numbers. If we got one right now, I bet everyone would be rolling around with callogi, flayock, duvolle mode and a llav bc those are all the best weapons. |
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Eriknaught
Vader's Taco Shack
35
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:20:00 -
[11] - Quote
Killar-12 wrote:Eriknaught wrote:In before cat slaughter. I brought the beers, who's got popcorn ? I brought some popcorn here's some.
Woot! |
DoubleTap420
Red Star. EoN.
3
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
I wouldn't mind a respect every major update since we all know they always **** something up trying to fix something else and 80-90% of my sp would go back into the same thing and so it wouldnt bother me at all even tho most ppl would just use it to ride the ban wagon of a op weapon each time till it get over nerfed im mean fixed but im down it it would let me try out all kinds of weps skills and modules each month having no regret if I dont like it |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
861
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
DoubleTap420 wrote:I wouldn't mind a respect every major update since we all know they always **** something up trying to fix something else and 80-90% of my sp would go back into the same thing and so it wouldnt bother me at all even tho most ppl would just use it to ride the ban wagon of a op weapon each time till it get over nerfed im mean fixed but im down it it would let me try out all kinds of weps skills and modules each month having no regret if I dont like it
No you should suffer serious consequences for wanting to explore other aspects of this game!!!
80% of the content in this game SHOULD BE LOCKED OUT FROM YOU FOR IMMERSION PURPOSES!!!!! |
Skipper Jones
ZionTCD
349
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
456
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Skipper Jones wrote:No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update.
Did you even read my post? That is exactly the point. When CCP sees a huge group of ppl speccing to the same thing, its obvi the FOTM and needs a nerf. I dont get how that;s a bad thing |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:33:00 -
[16] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update. Did you even read my post? That is exactly the point. When CCP sees a huge group of ppl speccing to the same thing, its obvi the FOTM and needs a nerf. I dont get how that;s a bad thing So a game of permanent FOTM chasing is a good thing now? |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
456
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update. Did you even read my post? That is exactly the point. When CCP sees a huge group of ppl speccing to the same thing, its obvi the FOTM and needs a nerf. I dont get how that;s a bad thing So a game of permanent FOTM chasing is a good thing now?
Can you even read? That is the entire point! When there is no FOTM left, the chasing stops and ppl use what they love because it's fun; not because it has an unfair advantage. |
Skipper Jones
ZionTCD
349
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update. Did you even read my post? That is exactly the point. When CCP sees a huge group of ppl speccing to the same thing, its obvi the FOTM and needs a nerf. I dont get how that;s a bad thing So a game of permanent FOTM chasing is a good thing now? Can you even read? That is the entire point! When there is no FOTM left, the chasing stops and ppl use what they love because it's fun; not because it has an unfair advantage.
That officially surpasses the worst idea I've ever heard on this forum.
You do realize that when CCP finds the FOTM they won't nerf it until the next update (1-1.5 months)?
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BuTtHuRtPEepZ
Raging Pack of Homos
50
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
ITT: "it is unfair that players spec into something they want to play instead of the metagame and get pubstomped because of it"
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Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update. Did you even read my post? That is exactly the point. When CCP sees a huge group of ppl speccing to the same thing, its obvi the FOTM and needs a nerf. I dont get how that;s a bad thing So a game of permanent FOTM chasing is a good thing now? Can you even read? That is the entire point! When there is no FOTM left, the chasing stops and ppl use what they love because it's fun; not because it has an unfair advantage. I read it, you are labeling FOTM chasing as beneficial, which is borderline unbelievable to me. there was no misunderstanding. Get down off your high horse like you are the only one who has reading comp. You advocate FOTM as a good thing. I only confirmed as much from your response. |
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Killar-12
Greatness Achieved Through Training EoN.
109
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Posted - 2013.07.12 02:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
FTOM is the worst thing ever no matter what suit it is it is the antethisis of balence and of a good game. |
DoubleTap420
Red Star. EoN.
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:45:00 -
[22] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:DoubleTap420 wrote:I wouldn't mind a respect every major update since we all know they always **** something up trying to fix something else and 80-90% of my sp would go back into the same thing and so it wouldnt bother me at all even tho most ppl would just use it to ride the ban wagon of a op weapon each time till it get over nerfed im mean fixed but im down it it would let me try out all kinds of weps skills and modules each month having no regret if I dont like it No you should suffer serious consequences for wanting to explore other aspects of this game!!! 80% of the content in this game SHOULD BE LOCKED OUT FROM YOU FOR IMMERSION PURPOSES!!!!!
Most mmos have a respect at the expense of in game currency and most fps game u can change how and what u wanna use easily and fast. Eve may not and even tho dust was made by the same ppl thus is not eve or even a mmo this is a console fps. Console fps players get bored eventually and like to explore or play different with something else to keep the game enjoyable imo.
Ccp has to please the hardcore console players to keep them happy and always mesing up failing to balance the game turns them away. They see this as a fps and not like some ppl see his and what it can become. It would also help the new players figure out his game better and know what to do easier.
I don't want a respect every month from now on just till ccp can get their crap together and do things right everytime. Once ccp figures it all out and way to do thing the proper way and somewhat please he majority of their players their should be no respec. Their is what 9 years left of this game? Why not have some type of respec every month or a way to untrain a skill per level for the next 6 months to a year. I think it would help alot with ccp trying to balance this game.
You eve players may not like it but remember this is not a mmo computer game this is a console fps that is somewhat still a beta to alot of people. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
DoubleTap420 wrote: Most mmos have a respect at the expense of in game currency and most fps game u can change how and what u wanna use easily and fast. Eve may not and even tho dust was made by the same ppl thus is not eve or even a mmo this is a console fps. Console fps players get bored eventually and like to explore or play different with something else to keep the game enjoyable imo.
Ccp has to please the hardcore console players to keep them happy and always mesing up failing to balance the game turns them away. They see this as a fps and not like some ppl see his and what it can become. It would also help the new players figure out his game better and know what to do easier.
I don't want a respect every month from now on just till ccp can get their crap together and do things right everytime. Once ccp figures it all out and way to do thing the proper way and somewhat please he majority of their players their should be no respec. Their is what 9 years left of this game? Why not have some type of respec every month or a way to untrain a skill per level for the next 6 months to a year. I think it would help alot with ccp trying to balance this game.
You eve players may not like it but remember this is not a mmo computer game this is a console fps that is somewhat still a beta to alot of people.
Should it appeal to all those players? Just because it's an FPS doesn't mean it's intended for the usual episodic releases with massive initial numbers release we're comparing to. Those have to be quick in keeping interest because of their transient nature, both by competition and design. This isn't intended that way. It has been modeled accordingly in my opinion and permanence of SP allocation seems directed at that very same long term game play.
That won't attract everyone. Maybe it shouldn't. Not being elitist, just saying we'll all have that favorite shooter, and for some of us that may not conceptually be dust. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
457
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
Promethius Franklin wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Promethius Franklin wrote:CharCharOdell wrote:Skipper Jones wrote:No.
It helps people skill into the flava flave of the update. Did you even read my post? That is exactly the point. When CCP sees a huge group of ppl speccing to the same thing, its obvi the FOTM and needs a nerf. I dont get how that;s a bad thing So a game of permanent FOTM chasing is a good thing now? Can you even read? That is the entire point! When there is no FOTM left, the chasing stops and ppl use what they love because it's fun; not because it has an unfair advantage. I read it, you are labeling FOTM chasing as beneficial, which is borderline unbelievable to me. there was no misunderstanding. Get down off your high horse like you are the only one who has reading comp. You advocate FOTM as a good thing. I only confirmed as much from your response.
You're not very bright, are you. Let me break it down barney style for you: 1) Update is released. New weapons added. Changes made to current. Etc. 2) Respec is given. A number of people skill into whatever they want- likely the new weapon 3) People play. It may turn out that a certain fit becomes the FOTM 4) Update is released. 5) Players get to respec. HUGE numbers of people spec into that fit because they saw others who specced into it out of curiousity; so over 50% of kills per game are made by that weapon, vehicle, turret, or suit. CCP takes note. 6) CCP nerfs that weapon, suit, etc. Players with that take note. If it becomes worthless, they make plans to spec out of it and into something more effective UNLESS it is not overnerfed, in which case, a number of people will stay with it. 7) A number of people will likely spec out of what used to be the FOTM because it has become useless, or if it was nerfed to a reasonable degree, they may stay with it, ultimately evening out the number of people with certain fits, so that every fit has the same number of people in it, therefore indicating that a fit is not OP or UP. 8) A weapon is balanced. Not too OP so everyone has to use it or lose, but not UP, so people still use it because they enjoy it.
This continues for everything until perfect balance is achieved with everything based on the absence of a FOTM. |
RA Drahcir
Psygod9 RISE of LEGION
19
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
anyone with 16mil SP would say 'no' to respecs because they already have their protosuits and dropsuit upgrades maxed out. they can afford every fotm. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
457
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:anyone with 16mil SP would say 'no' to respecs because they already have their protosuits and dropsuit upgrades maxed out. they can afford every fotm.
I disagree because msot players with 16 mil SP have risen above the idea that they should be the best bc of their gear. A lot of them are the best bc they are good at what they do. Most of the vets want a good, balanced game, rather one that favors a certain playstyle, which is what we have. |
DoubleTap420
Red Star. EoN.
3
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:anyone with 16mil SP would say 'no' to respecs because they already have their protosuits and dropsuit upgrades maxed out. they can afford every fotm.
You are wrong I have 17.9mill and im for some type of respec or skill untrain per level with isk |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 02:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote: You're not very bright, are you. Let me break it down barney style for you: 1) Update is released. New weapons added. Changes made to current. Etc. 2) Respec is given. A number of people skill into whatever they want- likely the new weapon 3) People play. It may turn out that a certain fit becomes the FOTM 4) Update is released. 5) Players get to respec. HUGE numbers of people spec into that fit because they saw others who specced into it out of curiousity; so over 50% of kills per game are made by that weapon, vehicle, turret, or suit. CCP takes note. 6) CCP nerfs that weapon, suit, etc. Players with that take note. If it becomes worthless, they make plans to spec out of it and into something more effective UNLESS it is not overnerfed, in which case, a number of people will stay with it. 7) A number of people will likely spec out of what used to be the FOTM because it has become useless, or if it was nerfed to a reasonable degree, they may stay with it, ultimately evening out the number of people with certain fits, so that every fit has the same number of people in it, therefore indicating that a fit is not OP or UP. 8) A weapon is balanced. Not too OP so everyone has to use it or lose, but not UP, so people still use it because they enjoy it.
This continues for everything until perfect balance is achieved with everything based on the absence of a FOTM.
I don't believe in perfect balance. It hasn't happened yet. And no system should be put in place that is specifically designed to penalize players who stick to a preferred play style rather than FOTM chase. Your logic was clear from the beginning. As I said, there was no misunderstanding, just disbelief that someone could think this was a good way to handle balance or maintain a healthy game while achieving it. Your superiority complex is unbecoming and unjustified. |
Promethius Franklin
DUST University Ivy League
51
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 03:00:00 -
[29] - Quote
RA Drahcir wrote:anyone with 16mil SP would say 'no' to respecs because they already have their protosuits and dropsuit upgrades maxed out. they can afford every fotm. I'm not even at 10 and don't have a proto suit or maxed out upgrades. I do not support respecs. |
Seymor Krelborn
DUST University Ivy League
129
|
Posted - 2013.07.12 03:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:It's simple, really. There is a reason some skills have more people putting SP into them than others- they have an unfair advantage.
By allowing players to respec every month, CCP can quantify which weapons are becoming too popular, and possibly, overpowered.
The respecs stop when every skill has relatively similar numbers of players speccing into them. That is the definition of balance, and would create more diversity on the battlefield.
Eventually, people would stop respeccing into different weapons because no weapon, vehicle, or dropsuit is far superior to any others. That is the goal of balancing and this is the only way to do it.
Bring the hate. I have my helmet ready.
true balance is everything being being op in its ideal situation and under powered when its not.... take fire in the woods as opposed to in a lake or water in the ocean as opposed to in the desert...look at war in RL... japan was OP at pearl harbor, America was op at Hiroshima.... that is true balance... imho |
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