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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
182
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:With those new numbers you can actually make money by self-locking your districts. But it will be boring to do.
Here's how it goes.
Status : District A mother corp. 300/300clones. Attack by alt corp : 30 Million. Status : District A locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || Auto-sell : 12M Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || Auto-sell : 12M Day 2, Fight happens during the RT : Alt corps fields at least one player with BPO crap stuff and suicides all the genopack clones. Mother corp fields one player as well. Fight reward : 15M
End of cycle : ISK result = 12+12+15-30 = 9 Million. Add another 6 million if the district is a production facility.
Start again.
You can take this further:
Here's how to exploit the new system such that you can earn all your income from all your districts without threat of attack or actually losing them.
What you need: 2 corps, each with equal numbers of districts 30 mil isk
What you do: Attack in the following pattern, in order http://i.imgur.com/cm4FuOy.png
Outcome: District 1b: 2x RT + 150 clones killed = 12 + 12 + 15 = 39 mil District 1a: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 12 + 12 + 15 - 15 = 24 mil District 2b: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 12 + 12 + 15 - 15 = 24 mil District 2a: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 12 + 12 + 15 - 15 = 24 mil Merc pack: 30 mil spent by Corp B
Corp A: 24 + 24 = 48 mil Corp B: 39 + 24 - 30 = 33 mil
So what we have is 4 districts that are just as safe as per Cazaderon's method, except you've only have to pay for a single clone pack.
This can be extended to any number of districts, and still only cost you 1 clone pack. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
688
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:21:00 -
[2] - Quote
Well CCP now has 2 days to fix this. |
Nocturnal Soul
Immortal Retribution
108
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP director: God dammit call it off Dust players: you promised us we would have it in two days CCP director: Bit-ch please
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Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
182
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
(easy solution/stopgap is to reduce the isk reward for killed clones down to 50% - so 75,000 isk) |
Himiko Kuronaga
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
799
|
Posted - 2013.07.10 11:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
This is why we like to have things announced in further advance.
So we can point out the broken before the broken becomes reality. |
Alaika Arbosa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. Interstellar Murder of Crows
591
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
I'm starting to fear that CCP thinks Blueberry Muffins are the way of the future.
I really hope that this isn't working as intended and that they do (if not totally remove) at least perform a significant drawdown on PIG before releasing the PC changes. |
Baku Amad
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
16
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
how would ccp only have two days?? we dont even know when the hell 1.3 will be other than soon |
Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
182
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
The devblog specifically states that this is coming on 11th July.
edit: https://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/balancing-the-conquest-of-planets/
Quote:WHEN DOES THIS GET RELEASED? All of these changes will be coming to Tranquility during downtime on July 11th. That is two days from the release of this dev blog. That is assuming no one points out glaring problems with the plan. If that happens we can and will delay the release, for now though, July 11th! :D
Summary: We are insane, these changes are coming soon, what is going on! |
RKKR
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
198
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:The devblog specifically states that this is coming on 11th July. edit: https://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/balancing-the-conquest-of-planets/Quote:WHEN DOES THIS GET RELEASED? All of these changes will be coming to Tranquility during downtime on July 11th. That is two days from the release of this dev blog. That is assuming no one points out glaring problems with the plan. If that happens we can and will delay the release, for now though, July 11th! :D
Summary: We are insane, these changes are coming soon, what is going on!
I think Foxfour also said somewhere that this stuff was coming before 1.3. So this update for PC is not 1.3 which one can assume with the current topic-title hence the confusion . |
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
13
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
LOL Just another example of CCP and its Devs having no clue on WTF they are doing.
Epic fail team True Tards, lol.
Release delayed.
Also a great example of CCP's player base doing all of CCP's QA testing for them.
Ohhhhhh, lets keep this blah, blah, blah info secret and then give it to them just 2 day before release and see if anyone misses all the loop holes in our uneducated Development skills.
True Tards are proud to present to you all graphs and charts of blah, blah, blah.
Yeah that was a great distraction, they won't notice our true fail if we whooo them with pictures.
Hey Faxtard do us all a favor please, just stop. You and True Tards just please stop. Its becoming very sad to watch TBH.
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Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
184
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Posted - 2013.07.10 11:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP wrote:LOL Just another example of CCP and its Devs having no clue on WTF they are doing.
Epic fail team True Tards, lol.
Release delayed.
Also a great example of CCP's player base doing all of CCP's QA testing for them.
Ohhhhhh, lets keep this blah, blah, blah info secret and then give it to them just 2 day before release and see if anyone misses all the loop holes in our uneducated Development skills.
True Tards are proud to present to you all graphs and charts of blah, blah, blah.
Yeah that was a great distraction, they won't notice our true fail if we whooo them with pictures.
Hey Foxtard do us all a favor please, just stop. You and True Tards just please stop. Its becoming very sad to watch TBH.
Hi, OP here. I'm not mad at CCP for not spotting the loophole that has been identified, why are you?
What's sad to watch is self-entitled sperging idiots like you who act like assholes. Get a life mate. |
Musta Tornius
Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
You are all assuming they didn't know about it :P |
Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
186
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:You are all assuming they didn't know about it :P
What's I find amusing is that if the above took place across all of Molden Heath the battle stats would fly through the roof! It'd be only the lack of isk being spent in the actual battles that would give a clue that it was exploit rather than war. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Red STar. EoN.
643
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:15:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well it is a loophole but only bad corps/alliances will use this method to hold onto stuff like when awoxing was about only the bad used it because they couldnt fight
The good corps/alliances wont bother and will welcome any fights that come ther way
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Robert JD Niewiadomski
NULLIMPEX INC
311
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Musta Tornius wrote:You are all assuming they didn't know about it :P They can pretend they did, NOW
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Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion RISE of LEGION
877
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:15:00 -
[16] - Quote
I liked IWS's solution to it. When attacking a district, remove exclusivity to the previous attacker, and instead apply an auction-like mechanism, where the attack goes to the highest bidder.
I can see the DUST pirate corporations already, jumping into a district with an extremely high bid, destroying the opposition, and demanding a ransom for it to be released. Of course, the aforementioned pirates would have to be really good players... unless CCP implements mechanics for attacks to occur unnoticed. Raiding districts, coming SoonGäó.
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ChribbaX
Otherworld Enterprises Dust Control Otherworld Empire Productions
573
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
Like the price changes they announced before putting it in making people able to hoard certain items that got way more expensive in the wait for a player market when they resell it back for major profit...
Altho... afk'ing generates isk as well so..... |
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THE GREY CARDINAL
PSU GHOST SYNDICATE DARKSTAR ARMY
167
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:22:00 -
[18] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:CHIPMINT BUTTERCUP wrote:LOL Just another example of CCP and its Devs having no clue on WTF they are doing.
Epic fail team True Tards, lol.
Release delayed.
Also a great example of CCP's player base doing all of CCP's QA testing for them.
Ohhhhhh, lets keep this blah, blah, blah info secret and then give it to them just 2 day before release and see if anyone misses all the loop holes in our uneducated Development skills.
True Tards are proud to present to you all graphs and charts of blah, blah, blah.
Yeah that was a great distraction, they won't notice our true fail if we whooo them with pictures.
Hey Foxtard do us all a favor please, just stop. You and True Tards just please stop. Its becoming very sad to watch TBH. Hi, OP here. I'm not mad at CCP for not spotting the loophole that has been identified, why are you? What's sad to watch is self-entitled sperging idiots like you who act like assholes. Get a life mate.
Well said. There are some proto retards in this community. The price you pay for F2P is having kids soil the community. |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French CRONOS.
1797
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
It's actually kind my fault there. Been having those informations for a week and i missed to include the clone loss ISK reward. Which is weird as i'm used to do PC mathematics
But yeah, there are two issues :
- Geno packs a bit cheap. - Fact that selling clones to genolution or murdering them during a fight earns the same amount of ISK.
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Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
189
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
Here's my proposed solution:
Clones produced by a district whilst it is under attack cannot be sold to Genolution, and so once the clone count is up the district max of 300 or 450 then they are just 'lost'.
Outcome: You can still shield districts from attack for strategic reasons (in order to keep them or to allow them to become reinforced) but you can never do it for economic reasons since it will always cost you isk. |
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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French CRONOS.
1798
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:With those new numbers you can actually make money by self-locking your districts. But it will be boring to do.
Here's how it goes.
Status : District A mother corp. 300/300clones. Attack by alt corp : 30 Million. Status : District A locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || Auto-sell : 12M Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || Auto-sell : 12M Day 2, Fight happens during the RT : Alt corps fields at least one player with BPO crap stuff and suicides all the genopack clones. Mother corp fields one player as well. Fight reward : 15M
End of cycle : ISK result = 12+12+15-30 = 9 Million. Add another 6 million if the district is a production facility.
Start again.
You can take this further: Here's how to exploit the new system such that you can earn all your income from all your districts without threat of attack or actually losing them. What you need:2 corps, each with equal numbers of districts 30 mil isk What you do:Attack in the following pattern, in order http://i.imgur.com/cm4FuOy.pngOutcome:District 1b: 2x RT + 150 clones killed = 12 + 12 + 15 = 39 mil District 1a: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 12 + 12 + 15 - 15 = 24 mil District 2b: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 12 + 12 + 15 - 15 = 24 mil District 2a: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 12 + 12 + 15 - 15 = 24 mil Merc pack: 30 mil spent by Corp B Corp A: 24 + 24 = 48 mil Corp B: 39 + 24 - 30 = 33 mili.e. Corp A = 12 mil per district per day Corp B = 12 mil per district per day - 1x clone pack every 2 days
So what we have is 4 districts that are just as safe as per Cazaderon's method, except you've only have to pay for a single clone pack. This can be extended to any number of districts, and still only cost you 1 clone pack.
Actually, this method would work with the current numbers but require a lot more districts to be worth it.
Outcome: District 1b: 2x RT + 150 clones killed = 8 + 8 + 12 = 28 mil District 1a: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 8 + 8 + 12 - 15 = 13 mil District 2b: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 8 + 8 + 12 - 15 = 13 mil District 2a: 2x RT + 150 clones killed - 150 clones sent = 8 + 8 + 12 - 15 = 13 mil Merc pack: 80 mil spent by Corp B
Total : -13 Millions. You'd need to involve at least 2 more districts to make it profitable with current PC. What i want to point out is that there's always gonna be a way to self lock district and make a profit. Goal is to make it as difficult and painfull as possible |
Laurent Cazaderon
What The French CRONOS.
1798
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:48:00 -
[22] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:Here's my proposed solution:
Clones produced by a district whilst it is under attack cannot be sold to Genolution, and so once the clone count is up the district max of 300 or 450 then they are just 'lost'.
Outcome: You can still shield districts from attack for strategic reasons (in order to keep them or to allow them to become reinforced) but you can never do it for economic reasons since it will always cost you isk.
I think the Genolution clone pack price is about right, tbh. Please don't adjust it.
Can ou develop, i dont really see what you mean there. |
Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
190
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Posted - 2013.07.10 12:54:00 -
[23] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:Here's my proposed solution:
Clones produced by a district whilst it is under attack cannot be sold to Genolution, and so once the clone count is up the district max of 300 or 450 then they are just 'lost'.
Outcome: You can still shield districts from attack for strategic reasons (in order to keep them or to allow them to become reinforced) but you can never do it for economic reasons since it will always cost you isk.
I think the Genolution clone pack price is about right, tbh. Please don't adjust it. Can ou develop, i dont really see what you mean there.
Example 1 Status : District 1a Corp A . 300/300 clones. Attack by Corp B : District 1a locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || Cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 80 clones lost. Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || Cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 80 clones lost.
Example 2 Status : District 1a Corp A . 150/300 clones. Attack by Corp B : District 1a locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || 230/300 clones Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || 300/300 clones. Excess of 10 clones cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 10 clones lost. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
834
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Posted - 2013.07.10 13:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
I don't think this well nearly be the issue that you guys make it out to be... however one simple change could make this really quick and easy.
If you lose an attack on a district you are locked for X hours from starting a new one. Where X could be 3-4 hours.
When defender wins, attacker already loses exclusivity to attack, allowing a hostile corp attack, its just who's quicker to move clones really.
If you want to sit and lock down all of your districts when no one was going to attack anyways, than all you're doing is throwing away half your income... not very smart imo. |
Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
190
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Posted - 2013.07.10 13:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I don't think this well nearly be the issue that you guys make it out to be... however one simple change could make this really quick and easy.
If you lose an attack on a district you are locked for X hours from starting a new one. Where X could be 3-4 hours.
When defender wins, attacker already loses exclusivity to attack, allowing a hostile corp attack, its just who's quicker to move clones really.
If you want to sit and lock down all of your districts when no one was going to attack anyways, than all you're doing is throwing away half your income... not very smart imo.
If you think you are throwing away half of your income then you haven't understood the OP properly. Using the method in the OP you can collect 100% of the income from all of your districts, for the cost of a single merc clone pack every 2 days.
The impact is that a corporation that has the ability to defend only, say, 4 districts could in fact hold, say, 20 districts and ensure they get the income for all 20, and only have to defend the 4 it is capable of. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
834
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Posted - 2013.07.10 13:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
oh... I see... because a clone kill is 150k and a clone sale is also 150k.
For some reason I thought the clone kill was only 75k.
Yep okay... that's defo broken. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
25675
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Posted - 2013.07.10 13:36:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yes we are aware of the potential for corporations to lock a district and still make money. We will have an update for you guys as soon as possible for now please keep discussion of the Planetary Conquest update to this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1039888#post1039888 |
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Laurent Cazaderon
What The French CRONOS.
1805
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Posted - 2013.07.10 14:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Absolute Idiom II wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:Here's my proposed solution:
Clones produced by a district whilst it is under attack cannot be sold to Genolution, and so once the clone count is up the district max of 300 or 450 then they are just 'lost'.
Outcome: You can still shield districts from attack for strategic reasons (in order to keep them or to allow them to become reinforced) but you can never do it for economic reasons since it will always cost you isk.
I think the Genolution clone pack price is about right, tbh. Please don't adjust it. Can ou develop, i dont really see what you mean there. Example 1Status : District 1a Corp A . 300/300 clones. Attack by Corp B : District 1a locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || Cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 80 clones lost. Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || Cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 80 clones lost. Example 2Status : District 1a Corp A . 150/300 clones. Attack by Corp B : District 1a locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || 230/300 clones Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || 300/300 clones. Excess of 10 clones cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 10 clones lost.
Hmmm, i'm very much not liking lost clones. In general, nature doesnt like things disappearing. It feels like a massive double penalty for the defender. |
Absolute Idiom II
Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation
194
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Posted - 2013.07.10 14:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
I replied in the other thread instead, as per FoxFour's request: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1040058#post1040058 |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
1917
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Posted - 2013.07.10 14:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Absolute Idiom II wrote:Here's my proposed solution:
Clones produced by a district whilst it is under attack cannot be sold to Genolution, and so once the clone count is up the district max of 300 or 450 then they are just 'lost'.
Outcome: You can still shield districts from attack for strategic reasons (in order to keep them or to allow them to become reinforced) but you can never do it for economic reasons since it will always cost you isk.
I think the Genolution clone pack price is about right, tbh. Please don't adjust it. Can ou develop, i dont really see what you mean there. Example 1Status : District 1a Corp A . 300/300 clones. Attack by Corp B : District 1a locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || Cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 80 clones lost. Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || Cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 80 clones lost. Example 2Status : District 1a Corp A . 150/300 clones. Attack by Corp B : District 1a locked Day 1 : RT, no fights. 80 clones produced || 230/300 clones Day 2 : RT, 80 clones produced || 300/300 clones. Excess of 10 clones cannot be sold as under attack. 0 mil income. 10 clones lost. Hmmm, i'm very much not liking lost clones. In general, nature doesnt like things disappearing. It feels like a massive double penalty for the defender.
Tyrannasaurus Rex would like a word with you. |
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