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Flux vs normal nades

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Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 604	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:40:00 - [1] - Quote Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better
LXicon Ill Omens EoN. 115	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:42:00 - [2] - Quote flux only do shields, they don't affect armor.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens League of Infamy 403	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:42:00 - [3] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better Because flux grenades cant kill anybody, they are useless even even with 1200, or 1200000000 damage. I personally think 10% of that damage should leak to armor so they always do 120 armor damage :). If you want flux nades to do 400 damage they better do armor damage.
Vickers S Grunt Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 122	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:43:00 - [4] - Quote Because there not lethal . Normal grenades can kill u outright flux only affects shield . If they only did the same damage as locus then they would not be a viable alternative .
DUST Fiend OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4422	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:44:00 - [5] - Quote Vickers S Grunt wrote: Because they're not lethal . They're not ALWAYS lethal, I think you meant to say. They still kill things. Not supposed to. But they do.
BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 38	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:49:00 - [6] - Quote LXicon wrote: flux only do shields, they don't affect armor. I died to a Flux grenade yesterday and also killed someone with one. I assume this is a bug. I had full armor left too, but Scout suit so paper thin.
NAV HIV The Generals EoN. 256	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:51:00 - [7] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vickers S Grunt wrote: Because they're not lethal . They're not ALWAYS lethal, I think you meant to say. They still kill things. Not supposed to. But they do. Almost killed me and i'm a Caldari Assault ....
semperfi1999 Internal Error. League of Infamy 563	Posted - 2013.07.05 15:54:00 - [8] - Quote This has been discussed before.....the reason is that the flux nades were made to combat shield based vehicles since AV nades do much reduced dmg to these types of vehicles. However CCP did not make to balanced for this reason as lvl 1 flux will nullify more shields than any infantry suit can carry. In truth flux nade are OP for what they do......but QQers will come in and cry about how its not actually OP at all and then mention how they rely on them to be able to fight. Flux nades are better in many ways....flux goes through walls/boxes (as long as your in AOE you will get hit by the flux no ducking around a corner to dodge it). FLux has the same AOE as locus nades but do rediculous amounts of dmg to shields. Flux nades have not been fixed from the 2 second fuse and they go off almost like they are impact nades. They do full dmg out to their AOE as well. Flux cant kill (when they are glitched) but being able to completely nullify shields is a hefty advantage for such low requirements. I have argued that the only way to make it fair is to make a nade that does dmg to ONLY armor. It does dmg of 1200 1500 1800 (just like the flux) and has the same AOE as the flux nade. However if you suggest this the QQers come out in force because this would be OP (not sure how its OP in regards to armor but not shields). Some state that you die at 0 armor but thats not true I have had 0 armor and 0 shields many many many times and survived. So you could have a nade that removed all armor and have it not affect shields or kill someone. Basically anyone who knows anything about game balance knows that this nade is specifically unbalanced (its why the flux is used almost exclusively in PC matches). However the QQers have already proven that they can QQ harder than ppl who understand weapon balancing can. Thus they tend to "win" the popular opinion as most of the morons on these forums know very little about balanced weaponry they just want to protect the weapon that they personally use.
Nyusto Clegli S.e.V.e.N. 13	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:05:00 - [9] - Quote also we like out flux/MD combo
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders 668	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:28:00 - [10] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better Flux grenades have a large burst radius. Damage degrades from the center so you need a high damage to start with to be useful at the edges. Flux grenades are great for taking out enemy equipment that has been dropped on ledges. Perfect for those pesky red uplinks. They are also useful for softening up vehicles and shield tanking infantry. Have a squad of Caldari Logistics ck.0 gunning for you? One well placed flux will completely drop their defenses and make them hesitate. One or two well place mass driver rounds will them clean them all up.

Dust Project 514 Dust Evo 514 83	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:30:00 - [11] - Quote LXicon wrote: flux only do shields, they don't affect armor. Actually. They do affect armor. I almost die from one earlier. But it's armor damage is not as strong as normal nades.
ugg reset Molon Labe. League of Infamy 289	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:33:00 - [12] - Quote Look at the updated stats for AV grenades. you will see that they are about the same damage as flux.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 605	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:36:00 - [13] - Quote They dont kill perse but against shield tanking dropsuits it might aswell kill them because have next to no armor Just seems odd
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 121	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:37:00 - [14] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: I have argued that the only way to make it fair is to make a nade that does dmg to ONLY armor. It does dmg of 1200 1500 1800 (just like the flux) and has the same AOE as the flux nade. I'm assuming you aren't suggesting a grenade that kills people through shields, in which case no one would use this at all if you sat and thought about it for 2 seconds.
Cosgar ParagonX 2220	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:44:00 - [15] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better Serious question because I never used shield tanks- do flux grenades bypass your resistance modules?
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 1707	Posted - 2013.07.05 16:49:00 - [16] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: I have argued that the only way to make it fair is to make a nade that does dmg to ONLY armor. It does dmg of 1200 1500 1800 (just like the flux) and has the same AOE as the flux nade. This grenade would actually be capable of killing things though, unlike the flux, so it wouldn't be fair.
ladwar Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 701	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:04:00 - [17] - Quote flux is an AV weapon for shield vehicles that is why its so high, not because infantry can get that high of shield(i would LOL at this forever if possible). its just an AV that can be used on infantry as well without to much trouble. @ cosgar no they do not bypass resistance modules for vehicles.
oso tiburon The Generals EoN. 55	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:11:00 - [18] - Quote BARDAS wrote: LXicon wrote: flux only do shields, they don't affect armor. I died to a Flux grenade yesterday and also killed someone with one. I assume this is a bug. I had full armor left too, but Scout suit so paper thin. no what happend most likley was you got fluxed then shot before i go around any corner i toss a flux then come in blazing with my hmg . hmg does **** against shields but once i get past that itll rip you apart
semperfi1999 Internal Error. League of Infamy 563	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:48:00 - [19] - Quote Oso Peresoso wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: I have argued that the only way to make it fair is to make a nade that does dmg to ONLY armor. It does dmg of 1200 1500 1800 (just like the flux) and has the same AOE as the flux nade. I'll assuming you are not suggesting a grenade that kills people through shields, in which case no one would use this at all if you sat and thought about it for 2 seconds. No but obviously by your question you dont read for comprehension do you? I note that 0 armor does not mean death. Apparently in the game there is at least 1 single point of HP for the actual clone before the clone dies. Thus how you can survive with 0/0 HP. So just because you have no armor that does not mean you are dead......... (do I need to repeat this again just for emphasis...if so then re-read the last sentence over and over again untl you understand what was written). Ok now that you understand what I very clearly stated in my prior post. This weapons work work exactly the same as the flux only it would work exclusively on armor and NO it would not kill someone (once again assuming no glitch as flux should not kill anyone but it does on occasion anyway). In reality I note this only because people go absolutely crazy over this idea....HOW CAN YOU HAVE A NADE THAT REMOVES ALL ARMOR THAT WOULD BE OP!!!.......but a nade that removed all shields heck thats ok because this makes complete logical sense (do you people still not see your double standard here?). TBH the main issue is that this is an anti vehicle nade that is equally effective against the vehicles it was meant to counter (shield based vehicles) as well as infantry. There have been suggestions in previous threads on ways to balance this issue but nothing has ever been addressed......heck they wont even change the timer to work the same as the locus nades at least (5 second timer). However CCP has proven time and time again that they really dont know much about weapon balancing.....and most of the forum posters are even worse at weapon balancing. I mean seriously how do you explain how big of an issue weapon balancing is to the idiots who are all on the feedback thread saying....WE WANT TROPHIES BECAUSE THAT MAKES US 1337!!!!!!
semperfi1999 Internal Error. League of Infamy 563	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:56:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: They dont kill perse but against shield tanking dropsuits it might aswell kill them because have next to no armor Just seems odd Yes this is the precisely issue actually. Its why so many people were using the flux/MD combo last build. This build you didnt see it much because ret@rds with bad aiming cant get in the 3 meter radius needed for splash they got nerfed down from their 5-6 meter radius they had before. So MD users were complaining badly...and now apparently CCP gave back the MD splash........LOL MD another weapon that is horribly imbalanced just most ppl have no clue how to use it. One of my corpmates was using it in the prior build and laughing at its OPdness. He 1 shot heavily tanked adv heavies all the time with his mass driver. He could use 1 magazine to completely clear out the bowl of 12 enemies using only splash dmg. (watched him do this on more than 1 occasion)....needless to say MD needed the AOE adjustment but CCP doesnt know anything about weapon balancing and the ppl who use the MD are beholden to their weapons and dont care about balance. Next flaylock users are going to be noting how their weapon is perfectly balanced because it makes sense to have a pistol that does 480 dmg on a direct hit (yes the direct dmg and the AOE splash dmg are added together thats how the dmg works in Dust for AOE weapons).

gbghg L.O.T.I.S. RISE of LEGION 2173	Posted - 2013.07.05 17:58:00 - [21] - Quote I remember seeing mention of a "miasma grenade" that weakens armour in the uprising items list, could be what you want semperfi1999
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 284	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:02:00 - [22] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Vickers S Grunt wrote: Because they're not lethal . They're not ALWAYS lethal, I think you meant to say. They still kill things. Not supposed to. But they do. THANK you for saving my sanity. Because YES, you CAN kill people with a direct hit from a flux. Just really hard.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 127	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:02:00 - [23] - Quote semperfi1999 wrote: Oso Peresoso wrote: semperfi1999 wrote: I have argued that the only way to make it fair is to make a nade that does dmg to ONLY armor. It does dmg of 1200 1500 1800 (just like the flux) and has the same AOE as the flux nade. I'll assuming you are not suggesting a grenade that kills people through shields, in which case no one would use this at all if you sat and thought about it for 2 seconds. No but obviously by your question you dont read for comprehension do you? In reality I note this only because people go absolutely crazy over this idea....HOW CAN YOU HAVE A NADE THAT REMOVES ALL ARMOR THAT WOULD BE OP!!!.......but a nade that removed all shields heck thats ok because this makes complete logical sense (do you people still not see your double standard here?). Give me armor that recharges at 30 hp/s before modules or whatever and we'll talk.
semperfi1999 Internal Error. League of Infamy 563	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:09:00 - [24] - Quote gbghg wrote: I remember seeing mention of a "miasma grenade" that weakens armour in the uprising items list, could be what you want semperfi1999 That would be interesting....but TBH I dont think either should exist. I am just arguing that by their own logic (those who dont want any changes to the flux nades) they should have no problem with a nade that does the exact same thing only to armor.
Harpyja DUST University Ivy League 190	Posted - 2013.07.05 18:32:00 - [25] - Quote Some long long time ago, my LAV got flux'ed down to 0 shield. I turned on my booster, but it seemed that the first few cycles did nothing to my HP and I assumed that flux grenades temporarily disabled shield modules. But I never really got the chance to test it out.
XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 41	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:00:00 - [26] - Quote I killed 4 people in a match yesterday with my c7 flux the enemys shields were already down and they had low hp you can also take out turrets with them
Xender17 Intrepidus XI Omega Commission 204	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:05:00 - [27] - Quote For Armor vehicles that complain about AV nades. Shield vehicles have to deal with both AV nades and flux nades. Flux nades take a ton away from our shields and AV still takes away from shields. May I point out that flux does nothing to armor.
Lorhak Gannarsein DUST University Ivy League 44	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:11:00 - [28] - Quote We also have to deal with flux nades. This might shock you, but armour HAVs have shields too! Crazy, I know. Even crazier, they're actually an effective buffer against AV grenades and swarms! So a flux (which hits us just as hard as it does you) opens us right up to the gentle caress of the fluxer's Wiyrkomi Swarm or his buddy's Packed AV.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1792	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:13:00 - [29] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better Don't complain. Normal grenades do 70% damage to shields and 135% damage to armor. While your puny FLUX will give you a boo boo and force you to take cover and regenerate, if a locus grenade hits an armor tanker, he's done, dead, no regeneration, just dead. And that goes for all explosives, not just locus grenade.
clone casul Super Smash Corp. 9	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:19:00 - [30] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better Because flux grenades cant kill anybody, they are useless even even with 1200, or 1200000000 damage. I personally think 10% of that damage should leak to armor so they always do 120 armor damage :). If you want flux nades to do 400 damage they better do armor damage. I saw an enemy die in front of me in a flerry blue puff, the kill feed said "flux grenade"

XOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXOXO XOXOXOXOXOXO Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 42	Posted - 2013.07.05 19:51:00 - [31] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Flux do 1200 damage, normal standard 400 and get better Why do flux get 1200 base? why dont they start at 400 like normal nades do and then get better to make caldari logis run away
Galvan Nized Deep Space Republic Top Men. 58	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:16:00 - [32] - Quote Oso Peresoso wrote: Give me armor that recharges at 30 hp/s before modules or whatever and we'll talk. Nanohives alone provide 70 hp/s, plus reppers, plus repair tool I think armor can repair much quicker then shields...all with no delay.
Denak Kalamari BurgezzE.T.F 195	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:24:00 - [33] - Quote I'm not going to argue if the flux is OP or not, that is not the point of this thread. What I am going to tell however is why people use flux nades. First of all as people have said it's perfect for taking out very heavily shield tanked infantry and vehicles and make them go on the defensive. Secondly since fluxes also destroy equipment, it's really useful for taking out those nanohive and uplink camps, not to mention being a life savior for clearing out mined null cannons.
Cat Merc Oculus Felis 1805	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:30:00 - [34] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Oso Peresoso wrote: Give me armor that recharges at 30 hp/s before modules or whatever and we'll talk. Nanohives alone provide 70 hp/s, plus reppers, plus repair tool I think armor can repair much quicker then shields...all with no delay. All require either removing a gun off the field to help someone else, or use a limited item that runs out and can be destroyed. Shields get inherent 25hp/s that don't require another person and can't be destroyed. In addition to that, a single module can put that in the 40's, another one in the 50's. So no, armor does not regenerate faster except for edge cases that are rare anyway.
Oso Peresoso RisingSuns 132	Posted - 2013.07.05 20:39:00 - [35] - Quote Galvan Nized wrote: Oso Peresoso wrote: Give me armor that recharges at 30 hp/s before modules or whatever and we'll talk. Nanohives alone provide 70 hp/s, plus reppers, plus repair tool I think armor can repair much quicker then shields...all with no delay. lol so what? The point is flux vs caldari logi = run away and be at full hp in 15 seconds or less. Real grenade vs armor tanker = dead Mythical shield-bypassing 1000hp damage to armor grenade vs armor tanker = Run away and hide for 30 - 90s, unless you have someone to heal you, in which case TWO people run away and hide for at least 15 seconds, or "shield bypassing armor nades are a good idea because proto nanohives exist."


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