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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4677
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Posted - 2013.07.05 07:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
*all stats are from prototype*
*explosives do 80% shield damage, and 120% armor damage*
*plasma weapons do 110% shield damage, and 90%*
[Swarm launcher]
Damage per volley: 1980. 1584 on shields / 2376 against armor
Magazine size: 5 (with swarm operation level 5)
Refire delay: lock on time (1.2 s) + lockon delay (3.5 seconds estimate) = 4.7 seconds + reload time every five shots (4.5 s) = 9.2 s. So basically varies from 4.7 when magazine has volleys remaining, to 9.2 when reloading.
DPS (damage/seconds): 1980/4.7 = 421.28
Range: Don't really have numbers, but I know its a lot.
Lock on: YES
Arc "bullet" drop: NO
[Plasma cannon]
Damage per hit: 1155. 1270.5 on shields / 1039.5
magazine size: 1
Refire delay: charge time (0.6 s) + reload time (3.5 s) = 4 seconds.
DPS: 1155/4 = 288.75
Range: Don't really know, but the "bullet drop" arc is pretty steep, making long range hit pretty impossible
Lock on: NO
Arc "bullet" drop: YES
[Conculsion]: the weapon with the least effective range, that requires the most skill by far is somehow the weakest. This is actually pretty ridiculous.
The swarm launcher takes no skill to use because its a lock on weapon that can curve the trajectory of the missiles to follow the target. The plasma cannon doesn't have any of those benefits, and it takes much more skill to use because the shots travel in an arc making the user have to compensate for distance.
Swarm launchers does 825 more damage per shot/volley than plasma cannon, and over 130 more DPS.
Swarm launchers are weak against shields and plasma cannon is strong against shields, yet swarm launcher still does 314 more shield damage than plasma cannon.
Shorter range weapons generally do more DPS than their longer range counterparts to balance the range difference, this is why an STD AR does 425 DPS, and an STD sniper rifle does only 174.16 DPS. This is reversed for some reason when it comes to the swarm launcher and plasma cannon. A sniper rifles also actually require you to aim, unlike the swarm launcher.
The only real benefit to using the plasma cannon as a slight boost is refire time, and some splash. NOT worth it.
[Solution]: Switch the damage stats. A single shot of the plasma cannon should do the 1980 damage. A single volley of the swarm launcher should do 1150-60 damage collectively. Skill needs to be rewarded, and lack of effective range needs to be compensated for with more damage. |
13th Clone
The Merc Net
5
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Posted - 2013.07.05 07:18:00 -
[2] - Quote
Why does everyone think the plasma cannon is av it kills infantry ( if you can actually hit them ) and doesn't mention anything about vehicles in its description |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4677
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 07:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
13th Clone wrote:Why does everyone think the plasma cannon is av it kills infantry ( if you can actually hit them ) and doesn't mention anything about vehicles in its description
CCP Wolfman described it as a dumbfire AV weapon. We've been told for a long time before it arrived that it would be an AV weapon.
There's also the obvious fact that its basically a scifi rocket launcher.
So yeah, its an AV weapon. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
CRONOS.
791
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Posted - 2013.07.05 07:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
The one thing to be careful about is not making the plasma cannon stronger than a forge. It can already out range it if you aim right. Making it do 1980 damage would make it too strong IMO. |
13th Clone
The Merc Net
6
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Posted - 2013.07.05 07:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:13th Clone wrote:Why does everyone think the plasma cannon is av it kills infantry ( if you can actually hit them ) and doesn't mention anything about vehicles in its description CCP Wolfman described it as a dumbfire AV weapon. We've been told for a long time before it arrived that it would be an AV weapon. There's also the obvious fact that its basically a scifi rocket launcher. Forge guns are AV weapons that are also effective against infantry if you hit them, so that "it kills infantry" point doesn't stand. So yeah, its an AV weapon.
My apologies then didn't know that I always thought it was a mix of av and infantry cause if you can hit someone it's almost instant death going of the stats never used 1 to much sp to waste atm has it been considered a cqc av as in if they are in the 'city' compound areas where swarms are less affective due to walls etc ? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4679
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 07:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:The one thing to be careful about is not making the plasma cannon stronger than a forge. It can already out range it if you aim right. Making it do 1980 damage would make it too strong IMO.
I still think the forge has the distance advantage considering the shots just go where you want it to, no steep drop. proto forge gun DPS is over 603 (operation bonus factored).
The plasma cannon would do 1980/4 = 495 DPS. 108 more damage per second.
I understand your concerns through, and I would be ok if the plasma cannon did hundreds less damage than what I propose. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4679
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 07:47:00 -
[7] - Quote
13th Clone wrote:KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:13th Clone wrote:Why does everyone think the plasma cannon is av it kills infantry ( if you can actually hit them ) and doesn't mention anything about vehicles in its description CCP Wolfman described it as a dumbfire AV weapon. We've been told for a long time before it arrived that it would be an AV weapon. There's also the obvious fact that its basically a scifi rocket launcher. Forge guns are AV weapons that are also effective against infantry if you hit them, so that "it kills infantry" point doesn't stand. So yeah, its an AV weapon. My apologies then didn't know that I always thought it was a mix of av and infantry cause if you can hit someone it's almost instant death going of the stats never used 1 to much sp to waste atm has it been considered a cqc av as in if they are in the 'city' compound areas where swarms are less affective due to walls etc ?
Yeah, I would consider it a CQC AV weapon, though I never had a situation where I would use the PC for AV instead of swarms, a plasma blast isn't any more useful than some missiles when dealing with walls. Some might disagree, idk. |
ladwar
Dead Six Initiative
Lokun Listamenn
701
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 09:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
so plasma=useless just like
caldari HAV=useless
nuff said here. |
Martin0 Brancaleone
Maphia Clan Corporation
CRONOS.
385
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Posted - 2013.07.05 10:02:00 -
[9] - Quote
Good evaluation, i hope ccp read this.
Because the plasma cannon REALLY sucks as a av weapon. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4718
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Posted - 2013.07.07 12:07:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP, the power of math compels you! |
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Lorhak Gannarsein
DUST University
Ivy League
49
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Posted - 2013.07.07 14:39:00 -
[11] - Quote
This reads like a 'buff armour tanks' thread...
Shield tanks already have it hard enough. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4719
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 15:21:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lorhak Gannarsein wrote:This reads like a 'buff armour tanks' thread...
Shield tanks already have it hard enough.
Shield tanks being inferior although related, is a separate issue. Buffing shield tanks should fix that. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers
EoN.
617
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Posted - 2013.07.07 16:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
I would really much prefer the plasma cannon was a AV weapon and not an AI weapon... noob tubes in FPS games are never a good thing (just look at the flaylock pistol).
Lets give it no splash radius, direct hits only, lower the reload speed (~2.5s) and get rid of the silly charge time... now we're onto to something! |
Scheneighnay McBob
Blueberry Gunners
1943
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 19:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Don't forget how slow the plasma cannon's projectile is. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
4831
|
Posted - 2013.07.11 09:25:00 -
[15] - Quote
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Don't forget how slow the plasma cannon's projectile is.
Indeed |
Lowkiie
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
35
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Posted - 2013.07.11 10:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
Also don't forget to fix the Plasma Cannons MISFIRE problem and the collision detection on the fukin bolt. |
Arx Ardashir
Imperium Aeternum
104
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Posted - 2013.07.11 11:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
I like the big splash damage, since you're firing what amounts to a magnetic-field waterballoon filled with ionized gas.
What if, and this is kinda left field, kinda tech-related, they changed the projectile hit detection to one like a shotgun. As in, with the giant ball of plasma that comes out, you're never going to have the whole ball hit a single infantryman with the whole thing, so it only deals partial damage. Only 2/3 of the ball hit him, so it only does 2/3 damage. However, vehicles are big enough to where the whole projectile will hit and will do full damage.
CCP could then play with the numbers to find the balance that they're looking for. It's obvious that they wanted a dumbfire AV weapon without it being a "noob tube" type feel, hence the slow refire time. But the description talks about urban and closed/confied spaces, so they also wanted it to have an anti-infantry ability to it as well. Room full of baddies? Fire a rocket in there, as the confined space will amplify the shockwave from the explosion. Something like that.
TL;DR - Plasma Cannon becomes like a giant shotgun hit detection wise (and I don't mean that it doesn't register hits, like the current shotgun is plagued with :p), dealing full damage to things that the whole projectile impacts against, and reduced against partial impacts. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Tribal Band Dust Mercenaries
Immortals of War
2361
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Posted - 2013.07.11 13:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lowkiie wrote:Also don't forget to fix the Plasma Cannons MISFIRE problem and the collision detection on the fukin bolt.
The misfire isn't the same for me as what other people have said. Sometimes, my first shot doesn't take ammo, but I still get kills/assists with it. |
Epicsting pro
Planetary Response Organization
29
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Posted - 2013.07.15 05:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
Come on buff my gun I just get more kills with it ccp check out my kill count with it. If you do you will see it doesn't need a buff oh and I have a high vehcule kill rate with it because I'm proto and lvl 5 efficentcy. It might take skill but I will gladly take any buff you give me. With my set up I do 1824 against shields 610 splash and I 1 shot stander and lower lav. This may seem under weming in power but to me I brought my kd from .89 to 1.09 I love this gun. But if ya'll give me a buff don't wine nurf. |
Tharak Meuridiar
The Empyrean Agency
178
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 01:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Plasma Cannon is underpowered no debating that.
The SL is far from OP though. It takes no reflexes to aim though it does have to be used tactically for maximum effect as it is very easy to escape, and it's super obvious when one is hitting you. It is also completely incapable of hitting infantry.
While driving I consider SLs a nuisance and forge guns incredibly dangerous. |
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Artemis Kaiba
Shadow Broker Wet Squad
12
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
Everyone knows that weapon is as useless as the flaylock is OP. |
DeadlyAztec11
Max-Pain-inc
Dark Taboo
1568
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Posted - 2013.07.19 04:43:00 -
[22] - Quote
The Plasma cannon is rather useless as AV. Though, everyone that likes it, swears that it is anti-infantry only.
Don't nerf the SL though. Hitting speeding LAV's is hard and LLAV's are hard to kill even with a proto SL. Dropships can out run swarms most of the time. The only sure fire thing is a turret or an HAV that's not using cover.
Killing unskilled players in vehicles is easy, killing smart players in vehicles is a deep challenge. Even with a 'no skill' Swarm Launcher'.
~Sincerely, a dedicated AV player, |
Andris Kronis
DUST University
Ivy League
7
|
Posted - 2013.07.19 05:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Plasma canon just needs some decent sights like the mass driver ..... easy GUI fix :) |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
5110
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 16:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
They still suck.
Commandos, lasers, and plasma cannons need a buff. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
351
|
Posted - 2013.07.23 17:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
I consider the PlC damage fine.
I want it to fricking shoot straight.
Then I will use ol' faithful.
I only managed to kill a Madrigar with it cause I had a MIL Nano on me. |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
358
|
Posted - 2013.07.24 02:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
I remember somewhere that since 1.2 came out first week of July, so then 1.3 will come on the 28th.
Maybe CCP will Ninja Buff it? |
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