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Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
131
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
4668
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 21:59:00 -
[2] - Quote
What's the point of having module slots if you don't that the PG/CPU to fit them? HP tanking is needed to make logis durable so it can perform its support duties. |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet
131
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:What's the point of having module slots if you don't that the PG/CPU to fit them? HP tanking is needed to make logis durable so it can perform its support duties.
Welcome to life as any other suit.
I've got 4/4/4 fitting skills, and I run a Proto Heavy suit. I do not have the CPU/PG to fit full complex high and low slots. It's simply not there. Same for when I run Proto Mediums.
Logistics have the capability to fit more Complex gear than any other class due to their higher CPU/PG. As I said, it was meant for equipment. Forgo the equipment, and you create a suit that has more EHP than a Heavy, with more mobility, survivability, and offensive power than ALL of it's peers.
Hope that answers that question. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1897
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
I believe they need less slots, more default eHP. They're supposed to be durable, but you shouldn't be able to throw 4 complex shield extenders on them. |
Beeeees
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
27
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
Logis need those EHPs to stay alive and heal the band while rocking.
I cant fit sh!t on my ADV minmatar suit, and the 10% speed reduction doesnt make life easier. Now with ferroscale plates I can finally go fast again, but with a huge hit to survivability.
Dont nerf logis, buff Assaults. |
N311V
DUST University Ivy League
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 22:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Logistics have the capability to fit more Complex gear than any other class due to their higher CPU/PG. As I said, it was meant for equipment. Forgo the equipment, and you create a suit that has more EHP than a Heavy, with more mobility, survivability, and offensive power than ALL of it's peers.
Hope that answers that question.
Thanks, made me chuckle. I can tell you're frustrated but please keep it real, show me a Logi that has more EHP than a Heavy, with more mobility, survivability, and offensive power than ALL of it's peers and I'll take you more seriously.
On topic, the only way your solution could not gravely hampen my ability to play support Logi is if the base HP were increased to the level of assaults but then assault Logis will just replace tanking with damage mods and the problem remains. Others have suggested the loss of a high and low slot to be replaced by increased base HP and an extra equipment slot. This solution shouldn't alter my ability to run support Logi but could restrict the assault Logis.
Of course this is assuming that CCP has a problem with assault Logis, creative use of fits is in the trailer after all. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
578
|
Posted - 2013.07.04 23:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
leaving the slots alone and changing the passive reps logi bonus to reduction of equipment fitting and changing assault from shield recharge to increased damage would balance them a lot.
this comes with a normalization of CPU/PG for all mediums suits as well.
this would require a reshuffling of a lot of racial bonuses though, of which we are in dire need. |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
135
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:leaving the slots alone and changing the passive reps logi bonus to reduction of equipment fitting and changing assault from shield recharge to increased damage would balance them a lot.
this comes with a normalization of CPU/PG for all mediums suits as well.
this would require a reshuffling of a lot of racial bonuses though, of which we are in dire need.
Yeah.. 100% agree with you. Unfortunately, we're not likely to see anything on that front any time soon, what with them focusing on core mechanics and bugs.. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
889
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 22:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved.
The existing problem with the logistics suits is that assault suit wearers are mad that they aren't uber at all times.
That is all. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
418
|
Posted - 2013.07.05 23:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved.
Good luck getting support from logis who opt advanced or higher equipment for survivability. Also if my CPU/PG is to be lowered give me a sidearm since i will now be an assault suit, oh and dont forget to give me my speed back please; hell give me faster speed than an assault since my HP would be pretty low now. |
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Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
136
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 11:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
BL4CKST4R wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved. Good luck getting support from logis who opt advanced or higher equipment for survivability. Also if my CPU/PG is to be lowered give me a sidearm since i will now be an assault suit, oh and dont forget to give me my speed back please; hell give me faster speed than an assault since my HP would be pretty low now.
Let me get this straight.. "Good luck getting support from the community that needs a nerf.". Yes, I think you're right. Nobody wants to get nerfed, so I really don't expect their backing. Having said that, I don't see many Logi's offering up a solution, so I suppose we have to take what we get. |
Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
41
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 11:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
No. Just give them a damage reduction. Say, 20-30%. Then boost equipment's efficiency. Simple.
Peace, Aizen |
Rahl Draak
Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 11:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
As has been stated before...logis need to be capable of ONLY carrying a sidearm. Surely, pure logis won't have a problem, as they are SO consumed with rezzing and supplying nanohives for their needing teammates. (Standby for tryhards/scrubs carrying on of how logis NEED light weapons for "Defending" themselves.) |
Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
136
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 11:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:No. Just give them a damage reduction. Say, 20-30%. Then boost equipment's efficiency. Simple. Peace, Aizen
Incoming or outgoing damage reduction?
And are you saying, move the module bonus to equipment instead? |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
426
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 12:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:BL4CKST4R wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved. Good luck getting support from logis who opt advanced or higher equipment for survivability. Also if my CPU/PG is to be lowered give me a sidearm since i will now be an assault suit, oh and dont forget to give me my speed back please; hell give me faster speed than an assault since my HP would be pretty low now. Let me get this straight.. "Good luck getting support from the community that needs a nerf.". Yes, I think you're right. Nobody wants to get nerfed, so I really don't expect their backing. Having said that, I don't see many Logi's offering up a solution, so I suppose we have to take what we get.
No its because its the same deal with the laser rifle, all of the laser rifles were fine until the viziam came along which was the only overpowered one. What did CCP do? Nerf the whole damn thing. Now comes the Caldari Logistics being the only Logistics suit thats overpowered, what does the community want? Nerf all of them because they are overpowered! Reading nerf logistics suit threads is like reading The Crucible.
My solution has always been to give assault suits a 1-2% light weapon damage increase per level. Regardless of what you might think a Logistics suits needs to have higher survivability than a assault suit, even though the only one that does is a Caldari Logi, since when we die there is nobody there to provide any form of support and our suits cost 1.5x to 2x more than a proto fitted assault suit. Besides what do you guys need with the extra CPU/PG? You can already fit proto modules and weapons just fine in your high slots and low slots, except proto reactives and ferros but not even Logistics can fit them, so in reality the only thing you can use your extra CPU/PG is for a grenade above basic/advanced and proto equipment.
You guys basically want logistic suit to play as scouts with a lot of equipment, and if thats the case fine nerf me but either respec me so you can find somebody else to keep your ass alive, or give me a sidearm and increase my speed so I can blow your ass away with a flaylock.
Aside from the CaLogi, Logistic suits have the lowest HP, the lowest speed, and the lowest damage output of the medium suits. And apparently that makes us OP, because we sacrifice all that for 25% more CPU/PG and 1 extra module slot, oh and don't forget the non-lethal equipment that we can now fit!
Caldari Logistics racial EHP: 934
Gallente Logistics EHP: 698
Caldari Assault EHP: 846
Gallente Assault EHP: 773
Amarr Assault EHP:811
Amarr Logistics EHP:736
Minmatar Assault EHP: 862 <-- 5.01m/s base speed after armor modules, wow...
Minmatar Logistics EHP: 733 <-- 4.72 base speed after armor modules. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
426
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 12:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:No. Just give them a damage reduction. Say, 20-30%. Then boost equipment's efficiency. Simple. Peace, Aizen
Why would you nerf our damage? If thats the case give us a side arm because no sidearm is a damage nerf.
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Kekklian Noobatronic
Goonfeet Top Men.
136
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 12:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
I continually hear arguments from the logis that provide support. Those aren't the ones causing the problems. It's the 'fake' Assault logis that are causing the bind were in. How do we some their flavor of the month outrageous fits? |
Matticus Monk
Ordus Trismegistus
172
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 13:07:00 -
[18] - Quote
I'm not a fan of restricting Logis to sidearms, as mentioned in many threads this can be problematic when trying to clear the field prior to reviving downed friends.
I see your point on the EQ, but I also agree logis need some tank to thrive and provide support.
I'm definitely not a fan of buffing assaults.... then you need to rebalance heavies and scouts (although scouts are so imbalanced at the moment work is needed there anyway)
I could see maybe requiring that logis fill all of their EQ slots before the fitting allows them to fit any High or Low slots. Then, worst case you'd only have proto logis w/ cheap EQ (instead of no EQ) and maybe they could stack less damage mods, shields, armor.... if you reduce High/Low slot count (and CPU/PG accordingly) this may be a step in the right direction, especially if you increase base HP a bit to compensate.
Definitely not an easy problem to solve.... |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
428
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 13:21:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why not just make the Logistics and Assault suits exactly the same, same base HP, same module distribution, same speed etc, the only difference being that the assault gets 2 equipment slots and 5% extra damage. While the Logistics get 3-4 equipment slots, and CPU/PG reductions on equipment. On the CPU/PG give both suits the average between vanilla logistics and assault suits, so 453/91. Basically both suits survive equally, but the assault can kill slightly faster, while the logistics can support better. Thus making the assault a good slayer and ok logistics because of 2 equipment slots, and making the logistics a good logistics and a ok slayer. |
TechMechMeds
Swamp Marines
17
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 15:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Juat some key points here, iv played logi since the start of open beta, I run proto amarr logi.
My logi was tougher before uprising and noone moaned about that. A logi is a force multiplier, in no way shape or form does that mean it should do less damage and be squishy. It's the caldari logi that's getting abused. I stomp people in pub matches but in planetary conquest when everyone's wearing proto I am more confined to support. STOP USING PUB MATCHES AS ANY KIND OF BALANCING REFERENCE, it will always be imbalanced. Read the different logi suit roles, amarr CLEARLY states it's a more assault oriented logI. All logis have less hp and speed than assault although I'm not sure about caldari logi but I use scrambler rifle so im cool with that.
To be honest the only people who want the logi nerfed are people with the false misconception that it's meant to be a subservient gimp with goodies and those who haven't even played planetary conquest where you actually have 16v16 full proto users and even on that level the proto caldari isn't op, the whole point of this game is to play how you want and having the ability to customise your role.
Ccp will never take the whole nerf the logi idea seriously because when they read this bull ish they most likely think what iv just said,
Im working on a minmatarr assault suit that's as quick as a scout with high hp, should they nerf assault speed now?
No malice intended to any softies who read this.
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Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers EoN.
454
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 16:38:00 -
[21] - Quote
Dude I dunno wtf ur worried about...I can't fit 5 complex ferroscale on my low slots to compete even remotely with assaults strafe speed. That's 70pg without the proto weapon or extra 33 pg for complex shield extenders...only logi that can tank that well without suffering a lot from strafe speed decrease is the lol caldari logi cause it get 679 maxed shields and 100 armor without using any low slots, and the mini assault because it can put a few plates on the bottom and still get above a 4.7 move speed (the move speed for the other logi's except amarr. Change the caldari logi from 4 low 3 equip to 3 low 4 equip (opposite of gallente) and change the shield efficacy bonus to something else. then they will still have a lot of shield courtesy of like 200+ base and 5 high slots but they won't have a OP amount of tank and the ability to omni tank it with plates on the bottom.
And honestly assaults don't even really need a buff. Regnyum beat every logi he faced when we we chilling in some PC no shows in our 1v1 tourney. He runs mini assault. The assaults are fine. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
892
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 16:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
There is no problem, therefore no solution is needed. |
Zatara Rought
TeamPlayers EoN.
454
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 16:41:00 -
[23] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:There is no problem, therefore no solution is needed.
Despectfully disagree. Caldari logi's need a change. The rest are fine though. |
Buster Friently
Rosen Association
892
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 16:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Buster Friently wrote:There is no problem, therefore no solution is needed. Despectfully disagree. Caldari logi's need a change. The rest are fine though. Cal logistics have higher ehp. They are also slower and have half the weapon slots as the assault. Doesn't seem like a big deal to me. |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 17:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
All medium suits should have fewer high and low power module slots. They should gain one slot per suit advancement and all suits should have the same number of total slots. The initial Shield/Armor HP, equipment slots, speed, and sidearm capability should be what separates the suit distinctions. These distinctions should be permanent. No medium suit should have the slots to become faster than a base scout and no medium suit should be able to have more HP than a base heavy.
A suit should always have a strong presence with its niche. When other suits have the capability to equal that niche, the niche is removed. |
Cruxio
Zumari Force Projection Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 17:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:All medium suits should have fewer high and low power module slots. They should gain one slot per suit advancement and all suits should have the same number of total slots. The initial Shield/Armor HP, equipment slots, speed, and sidearm capability should be what separates the suit distinctions. These distinctions should be permanent. No medium suit should have the slots to become faster than a base scout and no medium suit should be able to have more HP than a base heavy.
A suit should always have a strong presence with its niche. When other suits have the capability to equal that niche, the niche is removed.
I was thinking the same thing too, an alternative is that they should give heavies and scouts a built in active module since they lack the versatility of the medium suits |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
43
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 18:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cant belive we are on this AGAIN!!!
there are 3 others topic with enough arguments for ALL-Logi haters. But it's too difficult to reply crappy idea vs valid arguments, so let's open ANOTHER Thread
If you wanna do something simply switch the CAl.LOGI and CAL.A S S bonus
Ah, only for info OP My Amarr logi Suit have less PG than it's A S S counterpart.
SURPRISE !!!!!!!! |
Meeko Fent
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 18:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Change the Cal Logis bonus
Give it a nano jecter bonus
The calamari are minimalists
They probably say " He standing? Yes? Ok, go kill that tank."
That's why they use shields probably. |
ZDub 303
TeamPlayers EoN.
604
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 19:25:00 -
[29] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Buster Friently wrote:There is no problem, therefore no solution is needed. Despectfully disagree. Caldari logi's need a change. The rest are fine though.
No they don't, we just need to give relevant ehp bonuses to the other logi classes. And then a damage bonus to the assault class.
We just need a complete overhaul of racial bonuses in general, cause most of them are absolute ****. |
ADAM-OF-EVE
Svartur Bjorn
80
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 19:26:00 -
[30] - Quote
replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage. |
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Cosgar
ParagonX
2232
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 20:23:00 -
[31] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage. /facepalm |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:18:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cosgar wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage. /facepalm
Adam and Eve has a point. Logistic suit wearers want to be able to tank and by removing the light weapon slot, they can still tank but lack the range of an assault suit.
It's not the first time this idea has been offered and still it's not a bad idea. |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:20:00 -
[33] - Quote
ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage.
Let's make it clear and simple
if a LOGI kill you right now is not the suit the main problem (outside callogi, we all think that need to be reworked) simply because that player will still kill you with any other suit. Amarr A S S have more PG than my AMARR logi with less equip slot and more high base stat, you know what that means? ALL proto module and ALL proto weap with more HP and more speed. So, if a LOGI kill you, you REALLY want THAT player to have more speed, more healt and a sidearm?
I dont have Cosgar patience, to write every day the same f u c k i n g answer to every reply, read the last 3 thread please, and you will find why your idea is not viable in this game.
You know whats sad? I'm starting and ALT because i know that someday CCP will listen all those tears and nerf the hell out of LOGI CLASS |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:26:00 -
[34] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:Cosgar wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage. /facepalm Adam and Eve has a point. Logistic suit wearers want to be able to tank and by removing the light weapon slot, they can still tank but lack the range of an assault suit. It's not the first time this idea has been offered and still it's not a bad idea.
Ok Let's play your game....
How can i support the team if ALL player outrange me ( SUPRISE, NO MORE HARD CAP!!!! ) with base slow speed, lesser health?
You know whatlogi do and WHERE real logi play or you're another ALLtalkNOproof Guy?
Again, Logi play in the same field that A.S.S. play and eat the same ****. With the lack of DPS done to the enemy, how can we be usefull when the useful weap OUTCLASS the most powerfull rep per?
You want me have a Sidearm? FIne I want only logi have equip slot, because you cant supply yourself, you're an assault i will have fun watching you play STONEAGE 514
You know that in this game, those mechanics arent viable? |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2236
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:35:00 -
[35] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:Cosgar wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage. /facepalm Adam and Eve has a point. Logistic suit wearers want to be able to tank and by removing the light weapon slot, they can still tank but lack the range of an assault suit. It's not the first time this idea has been offered and still it's not a bad idea. I'm not even going to waste time explaining... again why this will never happen, because it'll never happen. But if by some chance Remnant sees half the office using logis and decides to nerf htem, I better damn sight not see anyone QQing about the rise in Ishukone SMGs.
But, for the ~100,000,000 time, explain how all logis are OP? All I see are 2 pages, talking about trees, flowers and feelings. Start with the Amarr and work your way up to the Caldari. And since I'm in a somewhat decent mood, here's the numbers for the logis, and assaults so you can compare. |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 21:53:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Eno Raef wrote:Cosgar wrote:ADAM-OF-EVE wrote:replace the light weapon for 1 sidearm only.
now you can fit uber tank but cant be uber dps unless at close range. suit is now not an assault suit as you cant fit assault weapons. proper logistics players would then still be able to full tank and fit all the equipment they need while still being able to do some damage. /facepalm Adam and Eve has a point. Logistic suit wearers want to be able to tank and by removing the light weapon slot, they can still tank but lack the range of an assault suit. It's not the first time this idea has been offered and still it's not a bad idea. Ok Let's play your game.... How can i support the team if ALL player outrange me ( SUPRISE, NO MORE HARD CAP!!!! ) with base slow speed, lesser health? You know whatlogi do and WHERE real logi play or you're another ALLtalkNOproof Guy? Again, Logi play in the same field that A.S.S. play and eat the same ****. With the lack of DPS done to the enemy, how can we be usefull when the useful weap OUTCLASS the most powerfull rep per? You want me have a Sidearm? FIne I want only logi have equip slot, because you cant supply yourself, you're an assault i will have fun watching you play STONEAGE 514 You know that in this game, those mechanics arent viable?
I'm perfectly ok with assault suits having no equipment slot. I'd suggest that scouts keep their equipment slot, however. Stone age people didn't have sidearm weapons, much less fully automatic SMGs, btw. |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:04:00 -
[37] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote: I'm perfectly ok with assault suits having no equipment slot. I'd suggest that scouts keep their equipment slot, however. Stone age people didn't have sidearm weapons, much less fully automatic SMGs, btw.
Why scout need and equip slot, you know, is a scout
You know why i called it STONEAGE 514? because if a logi is not in the match you will see all the big A.S.S CODBOYS melee the enemy to death.
BIG FUN !!! |
Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:20:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Eno Raef wrote: I'm perfectly ok with assault suits having no equipment slot. I'd suggest that scouts keep their equipment slot, however. Stone age people didn't have sidearm weapons, much less fully automatic SMGs, btw. Why scout need and equip slot, you know, is a scout You know why i called it STONEAGE 514? because if a logi is not in the match you will see all the big A.S.S CODBOYS melee the enemy to death. BIG FUN !!!
Scout isn't worth much else and the suit is miserable, why not give them a slot for remote explosives. Logis complain about possibly being made less effective at assault than an assault class while the scout and heavy have received so little love from CCP. If CCP were to make the logi as bad as the scout and heavy, then a complaint from logi's should be heard. Logi and assault to me are very similar but the assault should shine at direct combat than the log, at least that's how it seems to me.
Really though, there will be no balance to the suits so we all waste our time speaking of it. Chromosome came and left, while CCP left us with a horrible suit imbalance. |
Cosgar
ParagonX
2240
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote:Jastad wrote:Eno Raef wrote: I'm perfectly ok with assault suits having no equipment slot. I'd suggest that scouts keep their equipment slot, however. Stone age people didn't have sidearm weapons, much less fully automatic SMGs, btw. Why scout need and equip slot, you know, is a scout You know why i called it STONEAGE 514? because if a logi is not in the match you will see all the big A.S.S CODBOYS melee the enemy to death. BIG FUN !!! Scout isn't worth much else and the suit is miserable, why not give them a slot for remote explosives. Logis complain about possibly being made less effective at assault than an assault class while the scout and heavy have received so little love from CCP. If CCP were to make the logi as bad as the scout and heavy, then a complaint from logi's should be heard. Logi and assault to me are very similar but the assault should shine at direct combat than the log, at least that's how it seems to me. Really though, there will be no balance to the suits so we all waste our time speaking of it. Chromosome came and left, while CCP left us with a horrible suit imbalance. You think logis are better than assaults because they're tankier. Assaults are faster, have sidearms, better shield regen, recharge delay, cheaper fits, and you can make a pretty damn decent assault fitting for way less SP that a logi would need. There are also other factors that people are completely overlooking. For example, if shields had a drawback similar to armor, would the CaLogi's bonus still be OP? |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:26:00 -
[40] - Quote
Eno Raef wrote: Scout isn't worth much else and the suit is miserable, why not give them a slot for remote explosives. Logis complain about possibly being made less effective at assault than an assault class while the scout and heavy have received so little love from CCP. If CCP were to make the logi as bad as the scout and heavy, then a complaint from logi's should be heard. Logi and assault to me are very similar but the assault should shine at direct combat than the log, at least that's how it seems to me.
Really though, there will be no balance to the suits so we all waste our time speaking of it. Chromosome came and left, while CCP left us with a horrible suit imbalance.
Mine statement before was made for giving you and idea of HOW wrong is the concept: XXX is this so MUST do this...
Why you call in imbalance?
Apart of Cal.Logi ALL other Logi suit are inferior to their A.S.S. counterpart ( Cosgar provide the Chart )
Right now is simply wrong saying tha a logi can can tank better than a.s.s.
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Eno Raef
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
10
|
Posted - 2013.07.06 22:43:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jastad wrote:Eno Raef wrote: Scout isn't worth much else and the suit is miserable, why not give them a slot for remote explosives. Logis complain about possibly being made less effective at assault than an assault class while the scout and heavy have received so little love from CCP. If CCP were to make the logi as bad as the scout and heavy, then a complaint from logi's should be heard. Logi and assault to me are very similar but the assault should shine at direct combat than the log, at least that's how it seems to me.
Really though, there will be no balance to the suits so we all waste our time speaking of it. Chromosome came and left, while CCP left us with a horrible suit imbalance. Mine statement before was made for giving you and idea of HOW wrong is the concept: XXX is this so MUST do this... Why you call in imbalance? Apart of Cal.Logi ALL other Logi suit are inferior to their A.S.S. counterpart ( Cosgar provide the Chart ) Right now is simply wrong saying tha a logi can can tank better than a.s.s.
I don't care about the assault vs logistics as much as I care that the medium suits are much more better than the scout and heavy. I don't know how the conversation shifted to me but it did. And so, if my opinion is that important to the masses, here it is. The assault should be stronger than the logistic suit at combat. If the assault is not the better suit at combat, then the balance between assault and logistics should be remedied. Regardless as to whether there is a problem between assault and logistics, they're complaints are null to me when the scout and heavy receive less. |
CharCharOdell
Shining Flame Amarr Empire
255
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 00:23:00 -
[42] - Quote
Or buff the cal assault suit, and every other suit in the game up to the same levels. |
KING CHECKMATE
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. League of Infamy
185
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 00:32:00 -
[43] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved.
Presto nothing, Logitics CPU/PG is already almost at assault level:
PROTO LEVEL CALDARI LOGI: CPU:390 PG:78 PROTO LEVEL AMARR ASAULT: CPU:350 PG:70
You cant reduce their CPU and PG without being a total nerf and rendering them useless.
Nice try.
But no. |
BL4CKST4R
WarRavens League of Infamy
432
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 01:09:00 -
[44] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:So, the current problem with Logistics is their insane tank. Their beefed up CPU/PG - which was intended to allow them to fit equipment - is being abused to allow them to fit complete racks of complex mods. Something that other, non logistics suits struggle to do, or can only do if they sacrifice in other areas.
So, I propose the following: Lower Logistics CPU/PG to be in-line with non-logistics suits. Don't nerf it in to the ground, but rather put it at comparable Assault levels. Then, give all Logistics suits a bonus which reduces the fitting requirements of certain equipment.
And presto. Logistics, without the broken fitting options. Problem solved. Presto nothing, Logitics CPU/PG is already almost at assault level:
PROTO LEVEL CALDARI LOGI: CPU:390 PG:78 PROTO LEVEL AMARR ASAULT: CPU:350 PG:70
You cant reduce their CPU and PG without being a total nerf and rendering them useless.
Nice try.
But no.
Bad comparison...
Logistics suits have 25% more CPU/PG than an Assault suit, that really isn't much when looking at the amount of CPU/PG equipment uses. But because Logibros aren't idiots we forgo proto equipment for survivability, because a dead logi is no logi, and no logi is no support, and no support is a possible loss.
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Geovexen
STRONG-ARMED BANDITS
0
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 01:10:00 -
[45] - Quote
i run minmatar logi. with no equipment i can get a pretty mean strong suit. however i tend not to cuz it's not my play style. in eve there are ship role bonuses that reduce module requirements to promote their use. i think the OP's suggestion is quite adequate. give suits a reduction in CPU/PG requirements for equipment and reduce their overall CPU/PG to avoid tanking abuse and you've got a good deal.
i play my logi supportive so i have to sacrifice my damage (running adv ARs) as well as tank (running enhanced mods) simply to fit equipment on my suit that adequately supports my squad. I think that makes me balanced. however people often forgo the equipment and take advantage of the high CPU/PG. take away the CPU/PG that was allocated for equipment and make it a role bonus and you'll have suits that maintain their purpose and can no longer be abused.
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Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
44
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Posted - 2013.07.07 12:46:00 -
[46] - Quote
But Assault are better then LOGI.
More speed, More high stat and a sidearm.
As an Amarr logi i cant tell how often people understimate the sidearm slot.
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Aizen Intiki
Ghost Wolf Industries Alpha Wolf Pack
47
|
Posted - 2013.07.07 12:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:No. Just give them a damage reduction. Say, 20-30%. Then boost equipment's efficiency. Simple. Peace, Aizen Incoming or outgoing damage reduction? And are you saying, move the module bonus to equipment instead?
Yup. Exactly. They are not supposed to be worrying about themselves, but their comrades. I even put a sidearm on this alt's logi's so I can fit all PROTO equipment. Also, I put flux nades on just to scare off people, not kill them, and because they're easier to fit. This alt isn't very good at fighting, but it kicks ass as a logi bro.
Peace, Aizen |
Jastad
D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E
44
|
Posted - 2013.07.08 11:23:00 -
[48] - Quote
Aizen Intiki wrote:Kekklian Noobatronic wrote:Aizen Intiki wrote:No. Just give them a damage reduction. Say, 20-30%. Then boost equipment's efficiency. Simple. Peace, Aizen Incoming or outgoing damage reduction? And are you saying, move the module bonus to equipment instead? Yup. Exactly. They are not supposed to be worrying about themselves, but their comrades. I even put a sidearm on this alt's logi's so I can fit all PROTO equipment. Also, I put flux nades on just to scare off people, not kill them, and because they're easier to fit. This alt isn't very good at fighting, but it kicks ass as a logi bro. Peace, Aizen
And please, tell me
How can you care for others when your squad is under fire and you cant do ANYTHING because every useful weap OUTCLASS the most powerull repper? And when your squad is under concentrate fire and you cant add DPS because they are too far?
Please, Again, Stop thinking hi creative solution, for easy solving problems. And stop watching PUBSCRUB match for balance |
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