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HowDidThatTaste
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2912
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Posted - 2013.07.03 16:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
Something needs to be done at close range now that strafing speed has been increased again and our tracking rate is slow.
It becomes very frustrating to be considered a close quarters suit whenever other suit can hop skip and side to side, ahead of my tracking speed. Granted not all can cause they are bad and many still die. But their is a limit to the hmg success based on mechanics not skill of the player this needs to be adjusted.
I've been discussing this with other heavies and we really think the damage needs to be increased at closer range, if we are not going to have our turning /tracking speed increased. The increase in damage may finely put the hmg in a good place.
Many heavies are probably scared to say anything cause we have been nerfed to the beyond and have made tiny little steps to get back to where we are now. And we are greatful for the handouts ccp. But let's make the heavy suit/hmg a truly dominant close quarter machine if that is the way we are going with it.
Let's face it heavies are worthless on open spaces now that range has been increased on all weapons. No problem we adapt we use LAVS, but since most maps are open spaces the least you can do is give us dominant power with higher damage in our optimal range.
The amount can be discussed but I'm thinking at least 1.8 per level of weapon. |
SATAN'S PRODIGY
D3LTA FORC3 Inver Brass
11
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Agreed! |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
91
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
HMGs massacre people at close range. If a scout suit can strafe jump out of the way its not the end of the world. Increasing the optimal range is a more reasonable proposition. |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
196
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sounds good to me.
Honestly if there was any logic to this game we would do at least SMG dmg... its a SUB-machine gun but does more damage per shot than a heavy one. Also Minmatar stuff is all interchangeable if you look at the art and read/listen to the design concept. So wouldn't the ammo be the same?
inb4 logic was your first mistake |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon Plus
1636
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:24:00 -
[5] - Quote
KOBLAKA1 wrote:Sounds good to me.
Honestly if there was any logic to this game we would do at least SMG dmg... its a SUB-machine gun but does more damage per shot than a heavy one. Also Minmatar stuff is all interchangeable if you look at the art and read/listen to the design concept. So wouldn't the ammo be the same?
inb4 logic was your first mistake
Logic wasn't your first mistake. 'Logic' was. The much higher fire rate of the HMG is just as valid a measurement of damage as damage per bullet. If you did SMG damage per bullet, that rate of fire would unbalance the weapon.
I think a much more reasonable proposition would be to remove the limits on turn speed, which is a terrible mechanic anyway. |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
3100
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
So... we weren't getting out ranged before? I've been enjoying the tickles letting me know where to go to next lol.
The increase strafe scouts have gotten ... however... has made my HMG feel sorta lacking lol
But a damage buff probably isn't the answer - did they buff turn speed at all? I haven't noticed. |
TheMarkOf22
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
239
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
the last thing the HMG needs is a buff... |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
197
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Sounds good to me.
Honestly if there was any logic to this game we would do at least SMG dmg... its a SUB-machine gun but does more damage per shot than a heavy one. Also Minmatar stuff is all interchangeable if you look at the art and read/listen to the design concept. So wouldn't the ammo be the same?
inb4 logic was your first mistake Logic wasn't your first mistake. 'Logic' was. The much higher fire rate of the HMG is just as valid a measurement of damage as damage per bullet. If you did SMG damage per bullet, that rate of fire would unbalance the weapon. I think a much more reasonable proposition would be to remove the limits on turn speed, which is a terrible mechanic anyway.
find me an SMG that shoots a larger bullet than an HMG. Physics applies to ballistic weapons bigger equals more damage. We can go into deeper definitions if you want SMG is CQC weapon an HMG is not google it. I don't care about the modern day equivalents just the DEFINITIONS of the gun. RPM is not a valid excuse for doing less damage per shot
edit: i also think turn speed is garbage |
HowDidThatTaste
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2914
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:40:00 -
[9] - Quote
If the heavy role is to dominate cqc he needs to deal more damage quickly to be able to get to the next fight. Let's face it caldari logies have more shield than most heavies and 2/3 the armor. With extremely fast movement speed and the ability to jump over railings.
So saying the heavy hmg combo is powerful because of its ehp is negated by all the modules on a logi suit . Add on top of that the limited mobility the hmg ether needs more range which I'm opposed to because that's not our specialty or more damage in close quarters.
Look everyone wants to protect their play style me included but we need to have a discussion on what the intended role of the heavy hmg is.
Open space is death for us by 5 people out our range and no way to defend ourselves. Up close the limit on tracking negates our skill and comes down to mechanics so unless they fix the up close tracking speed or nerf all of your strafing speeds then the only logical conclusion is to buff the damage. Am I right yo! |
DUST Fiend
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
4308
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I say they just do away with DDR 514 like they did almost a year ago.... |
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Superhero Rawdon
Chaotic-Intent
40
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Posted - 2013.07.03 16:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
meh
increase turning/tracking speed
increase strafing speed
leave running speed alone.
im fine with the damage, tbh. the rps def helps with that. i think its stupid that the boundless doesnt even do 20 dps when, like u said, the smgs do more damage.
and i dont have problems with scouts/assaults running/bunnyhopping around me. they learn quick that BS doesnt work with this heavy. so GG.
|
Dexter307
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
38
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Posted - 2013.07.03 16:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
Considering that alot of bullets will miss due to the spread, and that our range is now better because of 1.2, i think the best way to buff the HMG is a damage boost |
HowDidThatTaste
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2917
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 16:54:00 -
[13] - Quote
Superhero Rawdon wrote:meh
increase turning/tracking speed
increase strafing speed
leave running speed alone.
im fine with the damage, tbh. the rps def helps with that. i think its stupid that the boundless doesnt even do 20 dps when, like u said, the smgs do more damage. but i really dont have too much of an issue with it. ARs doing over 70 damage tho.....i mean.....really?
and i dont have problems with scouts/assaults running/bunnyhopping around me. they learn quick that BS doesnt work with this heavy. so GG.
Lol. Are you out of the academy? Do you play PC battles? Please let me hear your advice on GG? |
Fox Gaden
DUST University Ivy League
580
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:02:00 -
[14] - Quote
I have not played my HMG Heavy since the patch but I have noticed the change in the turn speed of my shotgun assault. If the same applied to Heavies a slight turn speed buff may be warranted. A scout should still be able to run around a Heavy faster than a Heavy can track with an HRM, because Scouts are supposed to be the counter to Heavies. (A Heavy who switches to an SMG should be able to track a Scout though.) Only the fastest of Assault/Logi suits should be able to do this, and it should be difficult for them to pull off. It is a fine line. Turn too slow and you can't hit anyone in close orbit. Turn too fast and HMG becomes OP.
If you buff damage and not tracking speed, Assault suits will still just run around you ahead of your fire and kill you regardless. You are basically asking to be able to Not do more damage. |
Superhero Rawdon
Chaotic-Intent
40
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:Superhero Rawdon wrote:meh
increase turning/tracking speed
increase strafing speed
leave running speed alone.
im fine with the damage, tbh. the rps def helps with that. i think its stupid that the boundless doesnt even do 20 dps when, like u said, the smgs do more damage. but i really dont have too much of an issue with it. ARs doing over 70 damage tho.....i mean.....really?
and i dont have problems with scouts/assaults running/bunnyhopping around me. they learn quick that BS doesnt work with this heavy. so GG. Lol. Are you out of the academy? Do you play PC battles? Please let me hear your advice on GG?
lol yes, im out of the academy. 9.4 mil sp lifetime.
honestly, no. i have no PC exp. does that mean that the scouts with shotties *gasp* dont bunnyhop all over the place? does anybody use scouts in PC anyway? j/w, cause i havent heard of anything other than tanks, sqds of heavies and loaded assaults in the PC stories ive heard and vids ive watched.
advice? none. i created a thread not too long ago asking all heavies to reply with advice to playing the game itself. got a good amount of feedback, actually. refer to that.
sry if my first comment came off as snarky, but i 'LOL' at scouts coming at me in a match.
*que the 'u dont know **** bc u dont have any PC exp' remarks* quite aware that PC is SO different from pubs. believe me. i dont chest beat bc i havent participated in a PC battle yet. YET. so i see ure point for asking that. but at the same time.......its irrelevant in regards to my statement. |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2483
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
TheMarkOf22 wrote:the last thing the HMG needs is a buff...
lol.... says the Caldari Logi / tact. Duvolle / RE user
Curious to know what gun you're using now since it was nerfed. |
Bob Teller
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:21:00 -
[17] - Quote
KOBLAKA1 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Sounds good to me.
Honestly if there was any logic to this game we would do at least SMG dmg... its a SUB-machine gun but does more damage per shot than a heavy one. Also Minmatar stuff is all interchangeable if you look at the art and read/listen to the design concept. So wouldn't the ammo be the same?
inb4 logic was your first mistake Logic wasn't your first mistake. 'Logic' was. The much higher fire rate of the HMG is just as valid a measurement of damage as damage per bullet. If you did SMG damage per bullet, that rate of fire would unbalance the weapon. I think a much more reasonable proposition would be to remove the limits on turn speed, which is a terrible mechanic anyway. find me an SMG that shoots a larger bullet than an HMG. Physics applies to ballistic weapons bigger equals more damage. We can go into deeper definitions if you want SMG is CQC weapon an HMG is not google it. I don't care about the modern day equivalents just the DEFINITIONS of the gun. RPM is not a valid excuse for doing less damage per shot edit: i also think turn speed is garbage RPM x dammage per shot /60=DPS...of course rpm matter |
Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2483
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
The lack of logic from CCP in this regard is lulz worthy.
"Hey guys, let's discuss the HMG. Let's give it some power, some range, classify the weapon as a CQC one, BUT make their turn speed slow. It's logical that a person with a CQC weapon needs to turn slow right? EXACTLY!"
Increase turn speed at the very least. |
ReGnYuM
TeamPlayers EoN.
342
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:48:00 -
[19] - Quote
HowDidThatTaste wrote:Something needs to be done at close range now that strafing speed has been increased again and our tracking rate is slow.
It becomes very frustrating to be considered a close quarters suit whenever other suit can hop skip and side to side, ahead of my tracking speed. Granted not all can cause they are bad and many still die. But their is a limit to the hmg success based on mechanics not skill of the player this needs to be adjusted.
I've been discussing this with other heavies and we really think the damage needs to be increased at closer range, if we are not going to have our turning /tracking speed increased. The increase in damage may finely put the hmg in a good place.
Many heavies are probably scared to say anything cause we have been nerfed to the beyond and have made tiny little steps to get back to where we are now. And we are greatful for the handouts ccp. But let's make the heavy suit/hmg a truly dominant close quarter machine if that is the way we are going with it.
Let's face it heavies are worthless on open spaces now that range has been increased on all weapons. No problem we adapt we use LAVS, but since most maps are open spaces the least you can do is give us dominant power with higher damage in our optimal range.
The amount can be discussed but I'm thinking at least 1.8 per level of weapon.
I will fight any heavey buff
INB4 [Learntoaim] [AR514] [lolheaviesthinktheirslayers] [heaveyQQ] [nerfstrafespeed] |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
345
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
The problem with the balance of the HMG is that they are trying to make it into something it isnt-a CQC weapon.
IRL, every movie, and every other game featuring this type of weapon (multi rotating barrel machine gun) it is used as a med - long range suppressive fire weapon with more range than any other weapon firing similar ammunition (assault rifles). I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this point.
The HMG is NOT a CQC weapon CCP! It is a med to long range suppression/area denial weapon and should be balanced as such.
To those who say you can't apply real world weapon properties to a game I say to you:
You can design weapons in a game to operate in game as their counterparts in real life operate in real life. |
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Azura Sakura
Militaires-Sans-Frontieres
181
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:KOBLAKA1 wrote:Sounds good to me.
Honestly if there was any logic to this game we would do at least SMG dmg... its a SUB-machine gun but does more damage per shot than a heavy one. Also Minmatar stuff is all interchangeable if you look at the art and read/listen to the design concept. So wouldn't the ammo be the same?
inb4 logic was your first mistake Logic wasn't your first mistake. 'Logic' was. The much higher fire rate of the HMG is just as valid a measurement of damage as damage per bullet. If you did SMG damage per bullet, that rate of fire would unbalance the weapon. I think a much more reasonable proposition would be to remove the limits on turn speed, which is a terrible mechanic anyway. I can already see the Kb/m users smashing us DS3 users if they take off turn speed x_x |
TheMarkOf22
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
240
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:54:00 -
[22] - Quote
Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:TheMarkOf22 wrote:the last thing the HMG needs is a buff... lol.... says the Caldari Logi / tact. Duvolle / RE user Curious to know what gun you're using now since it was nerfed.
Every weapon I have proto I use, I don't need any weapon to do good.
I can spec heavy right now and I would instantly be the best heavy in the game. |
HowDidThatTaste
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2937
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:56:00 -
[23] - Quote
ReGnYuM wrote:
I will fight any heavey buff
INB4 [Learntoaim] [AR514] [lolheaviesthinktheirslayers] [heaveyQQ] [nerfstrafespeed]
I wouldn't expect anything less from you but add to the argument. What is the role a heavy should play in your opinion?
I get it in PC matches we are point defence ( even though many times I was the one with you as we took objectives)
What is the role of the heavy in pub matches? Point defence? |
lDocHollidayl
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
184
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Simply put a proto HMG heavy facing a proto C LOGI Ar user, the winner is a toss up. The elite Calis will usually come out on top. The HMG is just not scary in CQ. I appreciate that I do not just tickle players at 30 plus meters now but when other weapons and suits go toe to toe with out the speed penalties the heavy is just a suit without a role. Many suits with their massive module count actually tank as much as a heavy.
I have "snuck up" on 2 or 3 players many times thinking I could HMG them. I barely kill one before they turn around jumping and dodging and put me in the grave. I would love to see the chain gun chain saw players up close. It used to. It is not feared in any engagement now.(except by miltia suits) |
TheMarkOf22
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
240
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 17:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
The AR's are garbage in this game, it's a huge advantage not having to ADS in this game.
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Lance 2ballzStrong
SyNergy Gaming EoN.
2485
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
TheMarkOf22 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:TheMarkOf22 wrote:the last thing the HMG needs is a buff... lol.... says the Caldari Logi / tact. Duvolle / RE user Curious to know what gun you're using now since it was nerfed. Every weapon I have proto I use, I don't need any weapon to do good. I can spec heavy right now and I would instantly be the best heavy in the game.
|
Bob Teller
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY
6
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:10:00 -
[27] - Quote
TheMarkOf22 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:TheMarkOf22 wrote:the last thing the HMG needs is a buff... lol.... says the Caldari Logi / tact. Duvolle / RE user Curious to know what gun you're using now since it was nerfed. Every weapon I have proto I use, I don't need any weapon to do good. I can spec heavy right now and I would instantly be the best heavy in the game. Wow,you must be a beast in Dust,we all wish we could be like you...wait no,i'd rather have a life;) |
Cody Sietz
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
349
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:23:00 -
[28] - Quote
Master Jaraiya wrote:The problem with the balance of the HMG is that they are trying to make it into something it isnt-a CQC weapon.
IRL, every movie, and every other game featuring this type of weapon (multi rotating barrel machine gun) it is used as a med - long range suppressive fire weapon with more range than any other weapon firing similar ammunition (assault rifles). I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this point.
The HMG is NOT a CQC weapon CCP! It is a med to long range suppression/area denial weapon and should be balanced as such.
To those who say you can't apply real world weapon properties to a game I say to you:
You can design weapons in a game to operate in game as their counterparts in real life operate in real life. What about tf2? |
Master Jaraiya
Ultramarine Corp
346
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Cody Sietz wrote:Master Jaraiya wrote:The problem with the balance of the HMG is that they are trying to make it into something it isnt-a CQC weapon.
IRL, every movie, and every other game featuring this type of weapon (multi rotating barrel machine gun) it is used as a med - long range suppressive fire weapon with more range than any other weapon firing similar ammunition (assault rifles). I challenge anyone to prove me wrong on this point.
The HMG is NOT a CQC weapon CCP! It is a med to long range suppression/area denial weapon and should be balanced as such.
To those who say you can't apply real world weapon properties to a game I say to you:
You can design weapons in a game to operate in game as their counterparts in real life operate in real life. What about tf2?
What about it? |
Sponglyboy Squaredoo
Not Guilty EoN.
692
|
Posted - 2013.07.03 18:43:00 -
[30] - Quote
TheMarkOf22 wrote:Lance 2ballzStrong wrote:TheMarkOf22 wrote:the last thing the HMG needs is a buff... lol.... says the Caldari Logi / tact. Duvolle / RE user Curious to know what gun you're using now since it was nerfed. Every weapon I have proto I use, I don't need any weapon to do good. I can spec heavy right now and I would instantly be the best heavy in the game. Please do, this is something I'd like to see. |
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