DUST Search - HMG still needs more damage in its optimal range.

KOBLAKA1 wrote:

WhiskeyJack Otako wrote:

HowDidThatTaste wrote:

Something needs to be done at close range now that strafing speed has been increased again and our tracking rate is slow.

It becomes very frustrating to be considered a close quarters suit whenever other suit can hop skip and side to side, ahead of my tracking speed. Granted not all can cause they are bad and many still die. But their is a limit to the hmg success based on mechanics not skill of the player this needs to be adjusted.

I've been discussing this with other heavies and we really think the damage needs to be increased at closer range, if we are not going to have our turning /tracking speed increased. The increase in damage may finely put the hmg in a good place.

Many heavies are probably scared to say anything cause we have been nerfed to the beyond and have made tiny little steps to get back to where we are now. And we are greatful for the handouts ccp. But let's make the heavy suit/hmg a truly dominant close quarter machine if that is the way we are going with it.

Let's face it heavies are worthless on open spaces now that range has been increased on all weapons. No problem we adapt we use LAVS, but since most maps are open spaces the least you can do is give us dominant power with higher damage in our optimal range.

The amount can be discussed but I'm thinking at least 1.8 per level of weapon.

Another heavy who thinks he should be invincible...

Dammit you guys are gonna make me do math...

Ok here we go:

So base math is 602 dps with three damage modifiers which any proto medium can pretty much pull off

MAX dps on the boundless (sacrificing tank) = 784 dps

"Wow look 182 difference told you HMG doesnt need a buff..." garbage due to all the disadvantages put upon the heavy.

1 there is almost no dispersion on the AR (especially with the SS skill) so pretty much all that damage is applied

2 HMG doesnt apply all of its damage right way so our dps is shite at first and if we let off the trigger at all (OH) it restarts.

3 Range effective range lets AR users hit us sooner

4 OUR Hitbox is monstrous and so is our head

5 we cant "DDR" which means thats another advantage to the AR user.

6 182 dps is 4 shots or so with AR its 9 with HMG... so turning, strafe, jumping all play a huge difference

7 this is just 1 v1 a heavy is supposed to take concentrated small arms fire not have a close call with 1 guy

In summary while i still believe SMG damage progression is the way it should be a 1.8 damage increase per level of HMG would be entirely fair to all involved parties.

edit: i was going to do a tank disparity analysis as well but i got **** to do. (ie std suit difference in tank heavy vs medium compared to at PROTO)


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HowDidThatTaste Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2912	Posted - 2013.07.03 16:15:00 - [1] - Quote Something needs to be done at close range now that strafing speed has been increased again and our tracking rate is slow. It becomes very frustrating to be considered a close quarters suit whenever other suit can hop skip and side to side, ahead of my tracking speed. Granted not all can cause they are bad and many still die. But their is a limit to the hmg success based on mechanics not skill of the player this needs to be adjusted. I've been discussing this with other heavies and we really think the damage needs to be increased at closer range, if we are not going to have our turning /tracking speed increased. The increase in damage may finely put the hmg in a good place. Many heavies are probably scared to say anything cause we have been nerfed to the beyond and have made tiny little steps to get back to where we are now. And we are greatful for the handouts ccp. But let's make the heavy suit/hmg a truly dominant close quarter machine if that is the way we are going with it. Let's face it heavies are worthless on open spaces now that range has been increased on all weapons. No problem we adapt we use LAVS, but since most maps are open spaces the least you can do is give us dominant power with higher damage in our optimal range. The amount can be discussed but I'm thinking at least 1.8 per level of weapon.
HowDidThatTaste Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2914	Posted - 2013.07.03 16:40:00 - [2] - Quote If the heavy role is to dominate cqc he needs to deal more damage quickly to be able to get to the next fight. Let's face it caldari logies have more shield than most heavies and 2/3 the armor. With extremely fast movement speed and the ability to jump over railings. So saying the heavy hmg combo is powerful because of its ehp is negated by all the modules on a logi suit . Add on top of that the limited mobility the hmg ether needs more range which I'm opposed to because that's not our specialty or more damage in close quarters. Look everyone wants to protect their play style me included but we need to have a discussion on what the intended role of the heavy hmg is. Open space is death for us by 5 people out our range and no way to defend ourselves. Up close the limit on tracking negates our skill and comes down to mechanics so unless they fix the up close tracking speed or nerf all of your strafing speeds then the only logical conclusion is to buff the damage. Am I right yo!
HowDidThatTaste Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2917	Posted - 2013.07.03 16:54:00 - [3] - Quote Superhero Rawdon wrote: meh increase turning/tracking speed increase strafing speed leave running speed alone. im fine with the damage, tbh. the rps def helps with that. i think its stupid that the boundless doesnt even do 20 dps when, like u said, the smgs do more damage. but i really dont have too much of an issue with it. ARs doing over 70 damage tho.....i mean.....really? and i dont have problems with scouts/assaults running/bunnyhopping around me. they learn quick that BS doesnt work with this heavy. so GG. Lol. Are you out of the academy? Do you play PC battles? Please let me hear your advice on GG?
HowDidThatTaste Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2937	Posted - 2013.07.03 17:56:00 - [4] - Quote ReGnYuM wrote: I will fight any heavey buff INB4 [Learntoaim] [AR514] [lolheaviesthinktheirslayers] [heaveyQQ] [nerfstrafespeed] I wouldn't expect anything less from you but add to the argument. What is the role a heavy should play in your opinion? I get it in PC matches we are point defence ( even though many times I was the one with you as we took objectives) What is the role of the heavy in pub matches? Point defence?
HowDidThatTaste Internal Error. 2940	Posted - 2013.07.04 06:33:00 - [5] - Quote KOBLAKA1 wrote: WhiskeyJack Otako wrote: HowDidThatTaste wrote: Something needs to be done at close range now that strafing speed has been increased again and our tracking rate is slow. It becomes very frustrating to be considered a close quarters suit whenever other suit can hop skip and side to side, ahead of my tracking speed. Granted not all can cause they are bad and many still die. But their is a limit to the hmg success based on mechanics not skill of the player this needs to be adjusted. I've been discussing this with other heavies and we really think the damage needs to be increased at closer range, if we are not going to have our turning /tracking speed increased. The increase in damage may finely put the hmg in a good place. Many heavies are probably scared to say anything cause we have been nerfed to the beyond and have made tiny little steps to get back to where we are now. And we are greatful for the handouts ccp. But let's make the heavy suit/hmg a truly dominant close quarter machine if that is the way we are going with it. Let's face it heavies are worthless on open spaces now that range has been increased on all weapons. No problem we adapt we use LAVS, but since most maps are open spaces the least you can do is give us dominant power with higher damage in our optimal range. The amount can be discussed but I'm thinking at least 1.8 per level of weapon. Another heavy who thinks he should be invincible... Dammit you guys are gonna make me do math... Ok here we go: So base math is 602 dps with three damage modifiers which any proto medium can pretty much pull off MAX dps on the boundless (sacrificing tank) = 784 dps "Wow look 182 difference told you HMG doesnt need a buff..." garbage due to all the disadvantages put upon the heavy. 1 there is almost no dispersion on the AR (especially with the SS skill) so pretty much all that damage is applied 2 HMG doesnt apply all of its damage right way so our dps is shite at first and if we let off the trigger at all (OH) it restarts. 3 Range effective range lets AR users hit us sooner 4 OUR Hitbox is monstrous and so is our head 5 we cant "DDR" which means thats another advantage to the AR user. 6 182 dps is 4 shots or so with AR its 9 with HMG... so turning, strafe, jumping all play a huge difference 7 this is just 1 v1 a heavy is supposed to take concentrated small arms fire not have a close call with 1 guy In summary while i still believe SMG damage progression is the way it should be a 1.8 damage increase per level of HMG would be entirely fair to all involved parties. edit: i was going to do a tank disparity analysis as well but i got **** to do. (ie std suit difference in tank heavy vs medium compared to at PROTO) Almost let me help you with your math. Absolute hmg numbers against against absolute numbered of other weapons. Nice try. Balance is an in game mechanics that is all we ask. If it was a spreadsheet number analyzer. I might would agree with you on paper. (This is the problem we are trying to correct.)But your math supposes all hits achieve their downrange target. Dps that miss can not be counted. In you equation. In reality this is not true.
HowDidThatTaste Internal Error. 2958	Posted - 2013.07.04 17:18:00 - [6] - Quote Either fix straife speed back to uprising. Which no one really wants, me included, or increase damage to compensate for the bad mechanic or fix the bad mechanic by increasing the heavy turn/track speed.