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TEXA5 HiTM4N
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
81
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Posted - 2013.07.01 07:00:00 -
[31] - Quote
sadly all dropships are only useful if you are playing people that won't pull out basic swarms or a militia forge gun. whatever group is in charge of the balance for this game needs to be yelled at. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
80
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Posted - 2013.07.01 16:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
TEXA5 HiTM4N wrote:sadly all dropships are only useful if you are playing people that won't pull out basic swarms or a militia forge gun. whatever group is in charge of the balance for this game needs to be yelled at. Well in CCP's defense i can at least manage to take miltia weapons relatively easily, but anything above my 600K dropships has an issue with immensely. |
KOBLAKA1
Opus Arcana Covert Intervention
147
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Posted - 2013.07.01 17:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Suggestion Add in armor plate or shield generating side turrets, it would have essentially the same effect you are after ...shield generating side turrets? There are side turrets that affect your shield as well? Because in Dust there is no such thing at this point in time. And an armor plate would be irrelevant because i fly caldari which means i am a shield tanker.
Remote reppers? |
Sargon Akkadi
Ordus Trismegistus
6
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Posted - 2013.07.01 18:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
KOBLAKA1 wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Suggestion Add in armor plate or shield generating side turrets, it would have essentially the same effect you are after ...shield generating side turrets? There are side turrets that affect your shield as well? Because in Dust there is no such thing at this point in time. And an armor plate would be irrelevant because i fly caldari which means i am a shield tanker. Remote reppers?
Finally, a reason for the side turrets to be able to hit the DS they are mounted on! |
Azri Sarum
BurgezzE.T.F
36
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
I think the forced requirement to have certain slots filled is wrong, for any role. A dropship should have its slot layout, but nothing should be mandatory.
This is what EVE ships are like. You have your slots, your modules, and its completely up to you on how you want to fit things. Its that flexability that lets you create some amazing fits. |
Oso Peresoso
RisingSuns
58
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
you can't fly a dropship without fitting turrets? that's strange. I fly around ships in eve without fitting guns to them all the time. If OP is just trying to save on fittings, then CCP should put in an equivalent to the 75mm Gatling railgun which uses practically no fittings. |
reydient
ROGUE SPADES EoN.
19
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Posted - 2013.07.01 19:33:00 -
[37] - Quote
I think good advice is- increase your resistance not your buff.
Armor tank- Amor adaptation( use the energized plating) Lv 3 Plus Gallente Assault level 5- Thats 25% damage resistance Then you add the vehicle armor skill level five- thats 10 % more : you at 35 % damage resistance
Then you stack an armor hardener- you can switch from 35% to 65% damage resistance: Add a shield resistance module( OR HARDENER )just to buff your base shields and TBAM- your flying high and taking the god forbidden breach forge gun ( at least one hit for sure) |
Pvt Numnutz
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
67
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Posted - 2013.07.01 20:30:00 -
[38] - Quote
This should not happen. There is nothing wrong with the tank that you can give to assault dropships. If you can't fit stuff then get better skills if you still can't fit then get mods for pg (there is no way that you have too little cpu) if you still can't fit after that you're doing something wrong. The biggest advantage assault dropships have is their speed and maneuverability, if you can't use that to your full advantage it doesn't matter how much tank you put on, you'll still get shot down. Even with the 3000 dps you can put out with missiles, if you can't fly well in a ADS then tank won't help |
Cy Clone1
Ill Omens EoN.
31
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Posted - 2013.07.01 20:37:00 -
[39] - Quote
they just need to give dropships pg and cpu equivalent to tanks. Then they'll last a bit longer and maybe be a threat to other vehicles and infantry. |
Pvt Numnutz
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
67
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Posted - 2013.07.01 21:12:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cy Clone1 wrote:they just need to give dropships pg and cpu equivalent to tanks. Then they'll last a bit longer and maybe be a threat to other vehicles and infantry.
Dropships need PG not CPU, every vehicle skill gives us CPU, and the only skill that gives us any power grid is core upgrades for a total of 5% if anything we could use another 1% per level to vehicle enginering. They are effective, I've held points from enemy assaults by myself in my ADS single handedly. What dropships really need is flight instruments and early warning systems which I believe are both comming soon. |
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
82
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Posted - 2013.07.01 21:48:00 -
[41] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:This should not happen. There is nothing wrong with the tank that you can give to assault dropships. If you can't fit stuff then get better skills if you still can't fit then get mods for pg (there is no way that you have too little cpu) if you still can't fit after that you're doing something wrong. The biggest advantage assault dropships have is their speed and maneuverability, if you can't use that to your full advantage it doesn't matter how much tank you put on, you'll still get shot down. Even with the 3000 dps you can put out with missiles, if you can't fly well in a ADS then tank won't help In no way do i deny that the assault dropship's biggest advantage it has going for it is speed. My current fitting has the 2 best torque boosters available, and an overdrive injector to boot. The only issue this presents is i can't include more than 1 shield extender with it (Its shields begin low enough as it is), and if i were able to remove the side turrets which on an assault dropship matter absolutely 0%, i could add those 2 other shield extenders i would need, and in no way would it be the tank my Eryx is either, it would still be very vulnerable, but not as much as it unreasonably is right now.I know how to outrun missles easy, but can't avoid forge guns because they are impossible to detect before they hit you, And this turret option doesn't only refferr to assault dropships, because Logi ships such as the Eryx would be extremely benefited if they could focus to the core on support and moving troops in and out of objectives, while managing a great shield or armor buff. And the fastest, and easiest solution to that would be to enable operation without side turrets. Many here have also made the point that even in EVE you can fly ships without turrets to better your fitting while managing your CPU/PG better. |
Skihids
Tritan's Onslaught RISE of LEGION
1682
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Posted - 2013.07.01 22:17:00 -
[42] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:Skihids wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote:Skihids wrote:CCP demands that you shoot at things. They don't want you playing support.
I don't know how they could be more clear about this:
WPs earned only by killing. Mandatory turret placement. Completly buggered support modules. Then let Assault dropships have the ability to not include sideturrets at least, i get kills all the time by "shooting at things" and the entire statement that "CCP demands you shoot at things" is completely opinionated, in-fact their long term goal is to make vehicles an extremely integrated component into the game, not some run-n-gun call of duty copy that only encourages mindless killing, what are you, 4 years old? And WP is not only earned by killing, i am not sure if you have played dust before cooperatively or even playing skirmish. You can earn WP from capturing objectives, putting Drop Uplinks down, and hacking other units that are in enemy control, if anything i would say that Dust encourages support roles more than just shoot em up roles. I can't even believe someone with 1K likes on here would assert such blasphemy No, I'm not four years old. I'm a bitter dropship pilot who lobbied for meaningful misions for nearly one year and witnessed CCP trash the dropship further with each release. My opinion is sarcastic but supported by the evidence. The only way to ern WPs with a dropship is to kill and blow stuff up. Now CCP Blam is working on a bomber variant rather than fix the shield transfer module or the aclive scanner for dropship use. Your suggestion was made months ago snd ignored by CCP. Stick around for another year and you too can become a bitter ex dropship pilot. It's the moment you begin to give up advocating for the right thing that the mission has been lost. Believe me, i have been replied to by CCP devs (including CCP Blam) as well and promised many things regarding dropships but have been let down just like you, but that doesn't mean i am not going to stop at least making the best effort i can into trying to have if anything a little dent in affecting the horrible managing on behalf of CCP as far as DS pilots are concerned. If anything, you should join us non-bitter veteran DS pilots like myself in constantly reviving this issue, which is a primary goal i intend to keep
By all means, keep at it. Fight the good fight.
The thing is that CCP is plenty aware of all the points brought up by pilots over the past year. We've got half a dozen threadnoughts with intelligent thoughtful content spilling out everywhere back in the dead section of the forums. To continue the fight would mean periodically posting links to the old threads and that would get old for everyone.
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic
82
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Posted - 2013.07.01 22:21:00 -
[43] - Quote
Well as long as i try with literally all i've got to make the current situation for DS pilots better, it will make me feel even more confident that i did everything i could have done, and if CCP decides to truly throw us to the way-side, it would make it that much easier for me to never look back at this game. But there are still many more updates to come, and if by when they introduce the truly large-scale maps that include 24v24 and still haven't made ANY updates to the dropships, i will either respec or back out at that time. But until then, I am trying to make my best effort in making this point as obvious as possible. |
Pvt Numnutz
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
67
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Posted - 2013.07.01 23:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote: In no way do i deny that the assault dropship's biggest advantage it has going for it is speed. My current fitting has the 2 best torque boosters available, and an overdrive injector to boot. The only issue this presents is i can't include more than 1 shield extender with it (Its shields begin low enough as it is), and if i were able to remove the side turrets which on an assault dropship matter absolutely 0%, i could add those 2 other shield extenders i would need, and in no way would it be the tank my Eryx is either, it would still be very vulnerable, but not as much as it unreasonably is right now.I know how to outrun missles easy, but can't avoid forge guns because they are impossible to detect before they hit you, And this turret option doesn't only refferr to assault dropships, because Logi ships such as the Eryx would be extremely benefited if they could focus to the core on support and moving troops in and out of objectives, while managing a great shield or armor buff. And the fastest, and easiest solution to that would be to enable operation without side turrets. Many here have also made the point that even in EVE you can fly ships without turrets to better your fitting while managing your CPU/PG better.
Interesting choice putting two jovians on, you don't really need the second one as the dropship is plenty fast with one and the other low slot could be used for something better what with stacking penalties and all. On my dropship I just use one jovian the rest of the highs I use for my shield tank. You are a fool to say that the side turrets on the assault dropship are worthless, a gunner in those turrets is much more effective than you can be with your little kitten cannon. Why? Because you have to fly the dropship, and fly it well. Also for taking out tanks XT cycled missiles can put out over 3000 dps if you have gunners and all missiles hit. Not worthless, my gunner went 10-0 while I went 4-0, he was more stable and is completely focused on turreting, he even killed a swarm launcher we were fighting. The added dps is essential for assault dropships. Hopefully with early warning systems pilots will be able to react better to forge guns. Ultimatly, I think it would be more creative to come up with other support turrets for logi ships as it would be nice to see a logistics vehicle be used for more than just murder taxi and super buffer tank dropship, something like I dunno, logistics!! |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
512
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Posted - 2013.07.02 00:40:00 -
[45] - Quote
Galvan Nized wrote:This has already been suggested in Feedback/Requests.
Dships yes this is a great idea, weapons being optional Really adds to customization.
Definitely a no on LAVs though. People need to learn how to use the turrets and not just run everything over.
One could sense some schizophrenia in that post =P |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
512
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 00:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
Okay. I totally understand the OP's and many of you others' wish about stripping turrets to save PG/CPU. I wished for that at one point (and still almost fantasize about it sometimes!) but I was wrong.
The is one HUGE REASON WHY ABILITY TO STRIP TURRETS IS VERY BAD:
It screws up the module fitting balance. Every vehicle hull has gone thru such amount of balancing ( Ever noticed how close all sensible fits usually are? No perfect fit fits with huge amount of extra PG/CPU).
The same with every module type. Multiply that by most powerful combinations - that's a enormous amount of variations to consider while balancing.
IF one could leave turret slots empty, in DS's case that would give some 200PG and 30 CPU free. That would mean even +50% boost to PG, all left for other uses! Suddenly tanking modules would have to take dropships with 400 PG and 600 PG into account at the same time!
To make things even worse the same (small) modules have to take entirely different hulls into account (LAV and DS). I'm admiring how well the modules are balanced, most of the time there are sweet bitter choices to make.
So, it's not the balancing being difficult, it's the high probability of balancing becoming impossible. |
Midas Fool
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
45
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Posted - 2013.07.02 03:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote: A dropship is completely inopperable if just 1 side turret is taken out, even on an assault DS where side-gunners are not even needed, nor wanted. If pilots were able to remove side guns for CPU/PG preservation, they could better max their sheild or armor buffs and become the better tank the dropship was meant to be
You're flying dropships wrong bro
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Midas Fool
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
45
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Posted - 2013.07.02 04:02:00 -
[48] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote: A dropship is completely inopperable if just 1 side turret is taken out, even on an assault DS where side-gunners are not even needed, nor wanted. If pilots were able to remove side guns for CPU/PG preservation, they could better max their sheild or armor buffs and become the better tank the dropship was meant to be
You're flying dropships wrong bro
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
85
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Posted - 2013.07.02 04:03:00 -
[49] - Quote
Midas Fool wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote: A dropship is completely inopperable if just 1 side turret is taken out, even on an assault DS where side-gunners are not even needed, nor wanted. If pilots were able to remove side guns for CPU/PG preservation, they could better max their sheild or armor buffs and become the better tank the dropship was meant to be You're flying dropships wrong bro You have no idea the way that i actually fly dropships, so i wouldn't jump to conclusions there. |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
85
|
Posted - 2013.07.02 04:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Okay. I totally understand the OP's and many of you others' wish about stripping turrets to save PG/CPU. I wished for that at one point (and still almost fantasize about it sometimes!) but I was wrong.
The is one HUGE REASON WHY ABILITY TO STRIP TURRETS IS VERY BAD:
It screws up the module fitting balance. Every vehicle hull has gone thru such amount of balancing ( Ever noticed how close all sensible fits usually are? No perfect fit fits with huge amount of extra PG/CPU).
The same with every module type. Multiply that by most powerful combinations - that's a enormous amount of variations to consider while balancing.
IF one could leave turret slots empty, in DS's case that would give some 200PG and 30 CPU free. That would mean even +50% boost to PG, all left for other uses! Suddenly tanking modules would have to take dropships with 400 PG and 600 PG into account at the same time!
To make things even worse the same (small) modules have to take entirely different hulls into account (LAV and DS). I'm admiring how well the modules are balanced, most of the time there are sweet bitter choices to make.
So, it's not the balancing being difficult, it's the high probability of balancing becoming outright impossible. Actually the way dropships are being handled right now in comparison to assault forge guns and proto swarm launchers they are immensely underpowered, and could even use the ability to have more shields to their advantage. Even when compared to their tank counterparts, the amount a tank can actually (tank) is remarkable when compared to the same ISK priced dropship, which has much less shield or armor capabilities. And if your comment to this is that dropships aren't meant to be the tank of the sky then why is a jet in current development & planning? That role is the true attack/fighter role that relies on its firepower, and the dropship is the relatively low firepower/high armor (supposedly) air vehicle. The imbalances are insane right now in vehicles and to think that they wouldn't remove turrets because they believe their balancing is at such a perfect level that all fits are equal than that's completely ridiculous. Dropships have a long way to go before they are actually useful for the roles CCP asserts they are truly "versatile" for.
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Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
85
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Posted - 2013.07.02 04:11:00 -
[51] - Quote
Pvt Numnutz wrote:Serimos Haeraven wrote: In no way do i deny that the assault dropship's biggest advantage it has going for it is speed. My current fitting has the 2 best torque boosters available, and an overdrive injector to boot. The only issue this presents is i can't include more than 1 shield extender with it (Its shields begin low enough as it is), and if i were able to remove the side turrets which on an assault dropship matter absolutely 0%, i could add those 2 other shield extenders i would need, and in no way would it be the tank my Eryx is either, it would still be very vulnerable, but not as much as it unreasonably is right now.I know how to outrun missles easy, but can't avoid forge guns because they are impossible to detect before they hit you, And this turret option doesn't only refferr to assault dropships, because Logi ships such as the Eryx would be extremely benefited if they could focus to the core on support and moving troops in and out of objectives, while managing a great shield or armor buff. And the fastest, and easiest solution to that would be to enable operation without side turrets. Many here have also made the point that even in EVE you can fly ships without turrets to better your fitting while managing your CPU/PG better. Interesting choice putting two jovians on, you don't really need the second one as the dropship is plenty fast with one and the other low slot could be used for something better what with stacking penalties and all. On my dropship I just use one jovian the rest of the highs I use for my shield tank. You are a fool to say that the side turrets on the assault dropship are worthless, a gunner in those turrets is much more effective than you can be with your little kitten cannon. Why? Because you have to fly the dropship, and fly it well. Also for taking out tanks XT cycled missiles can put out over 3000 dps if you have gunners and all missiles hit. Not worthless, my gunner went 10-0 while I went 4-0, he was more stable and is completely focused on turreting, he even killed a swarm launcher we were fighting. The added dps is essential for assault dropships. Hopefully with early warning systems pilots will be able to react better to forge guns. Ultimatly, I think it would be more creative to come up with other support turrets for logi ships as it would be nice to see a logistics vehicle be used for more than just murder taxi and super buffer tank dropship, something like I dunno, logistics!! I wouldn't be so quick to undermine the power of 2 jovians combined with an active fuel injector on an assault dropship, the manuverability it has combined with the firepower of even 1 XT-Accelerated on the front makes the assault dropship nearly un-hittable when it comes to tanks. I don't know why you think it's impossible to aim well while flying in a circular orbit around the target and still maintain fire on whatever you're aiming at, because i can do it every time against tanks without them even being fast enough to track their barrel around to hit me while i circle them, not to mention the XT-Accelerated puts out the most firepower out of all the small missle turrets for each hit, and i can land each rotated shot on the target, especially when it's a tank. |
Pvt Numnutz
BetaMax Beta CRONOS.
71
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Posted - 2013.07.03 03:13:00 -
[52] - Quote
Serimos Haeraven wrote:I wouldn't be so quick to undermine the power of 2 jovians combined with an active fuel injector on an assault dropship, the manuverability it has combined with the firepower of even 1 XT-Accelerated on the front makes the assault dropship nearly un-hittable when it comes to tanks. I don't know why you think it's impossible to aim well while flying in a circular orbit around the target and still maintain fire on whatever you're aiming at, because i can do it every time against tanks without them even being fast enough to track their barrel around to hit me while i circle them, not to mention the XT-Accelerated puts out the most firepower out of all the small missle turrets for each hit, and i can land each rotated shot on the target, especially when it's a tank.
I know how fast that fit is, i have flown many. I also agree its not very hard to move around tanks or get where they cant hit you and keep constant fire on them, even with one jovian powerplant. I was talking about when engaging ground infantry, and supporting a squad of shock troopers which the dropship was designed to do. I understand you like being a mini gunship and all, its alot more effective when you have ground troops and gunners supporting the dropship and the team.
Now, i have to correct you about XT-Accelerated missiles. They arent the end all turret, infact i consider them second best. XT-Accelerated missiles do 445 direct damage, XT-Fragmented also do 445 direct damage. there is only two differences Fragmented do less splash over a larger area, which is good if your supporting a team because even if you miss a little your still helping out your squad, and they cost half as much. So really your just paying for brand.
Infact if you really wanted to make your turrets have the most bang for your buck then you might as well take that other jovian off and put something like a damage mod on, sure you would be loosing 14.6% torque but hey you now have 10% more damage and 5% faster firing speed. This is why i think its better to use that other low slot for something other than speed tanking. This will also allow you to fit a better tank, but hey fit how ya like.
Im not entirely sure how good you are at tracking and hitting ground targets like infantry, however im sure it takes up a good amount of time and concentration, and im sure forge gunners will love that. unless you only hit tanks? |
Serimos Haeraven
Deep Space Republic Top Men.
91
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Posted - 2013.07.03 15:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
While i may take your suggestion about removing 1 jovian and replacing it with a dmg mod, the max dmg % it allows modules to actually effect is only 4%, so I'm still moderately hesitant to doing it. Also, the reason i use the XT-Accelerated isn't because it has a flashy name, it's because of the increased range that allows me to engage enemies from a much farther distance than the other missle launchers. This benefits me immensely in moving fast in dropship battles while still being able to engage the enemy from a long distance, which often times they can't because they usually are never carrying an XT-accelerated on their fit. |
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