DUST Search - The skill gap is too much

Vyzion Eyri wrote:

Marston VC wrote:

If you want a game that panders to newer player then you don't have to play this one...... Lol, personally I like the fact that newblets have zero chance against me. It means I was rewarded for playing such a long time. I would hate this game if it had all the same flaws AND it was that much easier for newbies to kill me. Right now my only solace is that I can occasionally crush a newb and humiliate them by side strafing and not shooting back, only to watch them spend three clips to no avail......

LOL you couldn't catch up to 12 month veterans In one random Saturday? How dare CCP do that to you..... maybe we should just introduce 1 million SP merc packs, that wouldn't be pay to win or anything Roll

god...... This game has work to be done in it, and eventually it will become more newb friendly, (just like eve online did) but that all comes with time.

No FPS rewards veterans to the extent DUST does. To be honest, there's a reason for it. When we're playing on maps, forced to interact with other players over and over, there should be a balance between new and old players. MMORPGs don't need this because PvP is optional. This is not the case in an FPS, and therefore there is always going to be trouble if we continue by this SP model.

Which is why we should consider another way to go about retaining that sense of progression, whilst making sure new players don't leave the academy feeling as if they were just thrown from the kiddy pool into the deep end headfirst, AND ensuring the sandbox of New Eden doesn't turn into a game whose playerbase is divided based on levels, or SP.

The only solution that I can see is to limit the ability to use items with ISK. If prototype gear was so expensive you relied upon PC and EVE pilots (once EVE-DUST ISK transfers are implemented) to pay for it, you aren't going to use it in pubs. And if militia gear remained cheap, newbies would at the worst see themselves up against standard gear.

We're mercenaries and ISK should determine who we fight and what we bring to fights. SP should simply be a bonus, an afterthought.

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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2846	Posted - 2013.06.24 06:29:00 - [31] - Quote @keyser You sound like you are personally, legitimately, undeniably hating me. You are sounding just like regnum. And once again a member of the imps brings up my association with my corp when it has no relevance on the subject. And its always one of you guys doing this to me as i noticed. I thought you guys were hating me for being in PRO so I left it and went to D-Uni hoping that is ok with you guys. But no, it seems no matter where I go you will hate me personally regardless. That said, I bet you folks will still hate me even if I changed my opinions to match yours. What is up with you guys? I hope I'm wrong though and that you guys don't speak on behalf of negative feedback or whoever.
Altina McAlterson Not Guilty EoN. 555	Posted - 2013.06.24 06:31:00 - [32] - Quote Vyzion Eyri wrote: Marston VC wrote: If you want a game that panders to newer player then you don't have to play this one...... Lol, personally I like the fact that newblets have zero chance against me. It means I was rewarded for playing such a long time. I would hate this game if it had all the same flaws AND it was that much easier for newbies to kill me. Right now my only solace is that I can occasionally crush a newb and humiliate them by side strafing and not shooting back, only to watch them spend three clips to no avail...... LOL you couldn't catch up to 12 month veterans In one random Saturday? How dare CCP do that to you..... maybe we should just introduce 1 million SP merc packs, that wouldn't be pay to win or anything god...... This game has work to be done in it, and eventually it will become more newb friendly, (just like eve online did) but that all comes with time. No FPS rewards veterans to the extent DUST does. To be honest, there's a reason for it. When we're playing on maps, forced to interact with other players over and over, there should be a balance between new and old players. MMORPGs don't need this because PvP is optional. This is not the case in an FPS, and therefore there is always going to be trouble if we continue by this SP model. Which is why we should consider another way to go about retaining that sense of progression, whilst making sure new players don't leave the academy feeling as if they were just thrown from the kiddy pool into the deep end headfirst, AND ensuring the sandbox of New Eden doesn't turn into a game whose playerbase is divided based on levels, or SP. The only solution that I can see is to limit the ability to use items with ISK. If prototype gear was so expensive you relied upon PC and EVE pilots (once EVE-DUST ISK transfers are implemented) to pay for it, you aren't going to use it in pubs. And if militia gear remained cheap, newbies would at the worst see themselves up against standard gear. We're mercenaries and ISK should determine who we fight and what we bring to fights. SP should simply be a bonus, an afterthought. If proto gear was that expensive no one would use it because it's really not that much better than normal gear unless you are only talking about 1 v 1 cover to cover firefights. If it was that expensive you'd never want to use because you'd just catch a militia shotgun to the back, or get sniped or run over by an LAV. SP makes a bigger difference then gear so really we're back to matchmaking as the only option.
Vaux Karn The Mercenary Collective 19	Posted - 2013.06.24 07:18:00 - [33] - Quote Ok...so I don't know about anyone else but I am sick of hearing about the skill gap. To put this in perspective, if this were any other shooter the skill gap after a week, much less a month would be *nothing unlocked vs everything unlocked* and the casual players would not catch up until at least 9-12 months later. Also, on the other end of the spectrum, if everyone were limited to what others have suggested (no sp cap until you catch up to the highest skill players) there would be a wall hit in the game after people grind to the cap and then quit for months after over doing it. The cap as is is acceptable but the best solution is the rollover cap which is already being worked on. Enough about the skill gap, if the tables were turned and you were the high sp player, you would be saying that you worked for your sp they need to too. The skill gap is a necessity when you look at the game being, ideally, a 10 year plan. No other game on the market right now is planned to last more than 2 years before the sequel is released to suck up your hard earned money. On one more note, yes there is a gap between me and noobs when I am at 11 million sp, but there is also a gap between me and 16 million sp players. 4 months ago a 5 million sp gap was more hurtful than a 10 million gap is now. Get over it.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 423	Posted - 2013.06.24 12:30:00 - [34] - Quote Marston VC wrote: I VOTED FOR-KODOS wrote: I spent my entire saturday going tthrough my game library playing fps games. Some I had bought but never really played before, even then while i was at a disadvantage of no knowledge and/or experience, it didnt take me long to be able to go double positive every game. I noticed that while many of these games require some unlocks to level the playing field a bit, those unlocks didnt require a whole month of time to get a semi ddecent set up. I realize that dust is a f2p that banks on your wanting to pay to level up faster but even its current offerings arent enough to make me want to put money in this game. A new barebones game type or extended wp requirement to grad from academy should be implemented or at the very least let me buy sp 1mil at a time at a reasonable price. This game has potential but for your average run of the mill joe with little to no fps background it isnt going to be very fun. This is only excluding the poorly made fundamentals as well. my phone hates this forum. If you want a game that panders to newer player then you don't have to play this one...... Lol, personally I like the fact that newblets have zero chance against me. It means I was rewarded for playing such a long time. I would hate this game if it had all the same flaws AND it was that much easier for newbies to kill me. Right now my only solace is that I can occasionally crush a newb and humiliate them by side strafing and not shooting back, only to watch them spend three clips to no avail...... LOL you couldn't catch up to 12 month veterans In one random Saturday? How dare CCP do that to you..... maybe we should just introduce 1 million SP merc packs, that wouldn't be pay to win or anything god...... This game has work to be done in it, and eventually it will become more newb friendly, (just like eve online did) but that all comes with time. So you enjoy being a carebear in pvp land supported by a lol crutch, goti it. You're the reason CCP needs PVE so we can get scrubs like you out of the PVP arena so we actually get "good" competition into this game, not roll over and take it in the butt scrubs.
calisk galern BurgezzE.T.F 320	Posted - 2013.06.24 12:37:00 - [35] - Quote just so you guys know 4000-5000 players is more then enough to implement match making, the last game I participated in that needed match making of sort had a total active population of 200 and they decided not to do it and it's a dead game now, 5000 is more then enough. keep sticking your head up your asses and let the population dwindle, and eventually it won't be enough.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 423	Posted - 2013.06.24 12:44:00 - [36] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: @keyser You sound like you are personally, legitimately, undeniably hating me. You are sounding just like regnum. And once again a member of the imps brings up my association with my corp when it has no relevance on the subject. And its always one of you guys doing this to me as i noticed. I thought you guys were hating me for being in PRO so I left it and went to D-Uni hoping that is ok with you guys. But no, it seems no matter where I go you will hate me personally regardless. That said, I bet you folks will still hate me even if I changed my opinions to match yours. What is up with you guys? I hope I'm wrong though and that you guys don't speak on behalf of negative feedback or whoever. Nah i don't hate you. I dislike your ideas because they are coming from a place that has little to do with PVP oriented gameplay. I very much agree with your comments and ideas on the market and think you've has pretty decent value in those threads. This is about getting a newer competitive playerbase into the game because no matter how much you try to package dust as an MMOFPS, its still a LOBBY SHOOTER. For gods sake defiance and FF XIV have better MMO elements than this game, I CAN FREAKING TRADE IN BOTH THOSE GAMES DURING BETA. This game isn't even open world. If it had any of these elements i would be less critical of the cap, but it doesnt and the open world part is the biggest reason why a cap has to go, you have no legitimate control on where you character plays or battles so there is no veteran avoidance and even if there were, this game is still centered around PVP. And in PVP the key is always balancing the playing field because new players is what drives PVP gameplay along with persistence. But if that lag time is too long people simply won't commit. So the cycles goes Too long to get to competitive PVP-->Drop in player count-->Reduced stability of matchmaking due to smaller pool-->Drop in player count over frustration in match stability-->Further Drop in player count--->New build small surge in count from previous vets mixed with some new--->cycle repeats But each time with diminishing returns on the gains, why? Because the game isn't getting market penetration. It will continue to cease getting market penetration now because dust is in commercial release. While CCP may continue to develop the game it will be harder and harder for gamers to come back to this game. CCP is banking on variables that long don't make sense. The PS one didnt have as long a run as the ps2 did after the next console came out and CCP banking the PS2 sales curves is what PS3 will follow. Problems are the PS3 from PS2 was a ridiculously high launch price compared to date. PS3 from PS2 wasn't as big a leap forward as it was from 1-2 and 3-4. PS3 was much more difficult to develop and it took 1-2 years before devs really hit their strides for the console Online gaming was in its infancy on console during the transition from 2-3 and now is a cornerstone for most gamers and with it whole communities begin to move around that feature and where the MOST will end up. To blindly say people will continue to play PS3 in the same trends that PS2 followed is to ignore the underpinnings for what created that trend and to wash over that those same conditions don't exist this generation. So for people to blindly act as if they know or understand the console market trends or the communities themselves when most who argue against me tend to be PC leets who came to this game from EVE and bought a PS3 strictly for Dust, yea i have an issue with players such as that. Im not saying you are one of them but many of the comments you make seem to lead me to that same conclusion.
Daedric Lothar Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 696	Posted - 2013.06.24 12:50:00 - [37] - Quote MagmaSaber wrote: Uh... You don't buy SP. You can buy boosters, but they only work over time. Buying SP would make Dust pay-to-win, and CCP does not want that. It banks not on you paying to level up faster, but leveling up to save time (in training) and money(ISK, not real money). Aurum is more of a convenience currency, not a winning currency. That isn't the defiinition of P2W.. P2W is buying something you cannot get in the game yourself. The only example is and was the Fused Grenade.. I haven't looked at the Isk version but I hear its damage is lower which makes the AUR version P2W.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2849	Posted - 2013.06.24 13:01:00 - [38] - Quote Keyser Soze VerbalKint wrote: So for people to blindly act as if they know or understand the console market trends or the communities themselves when most who argue against me tend to be PC leets who came to this game from EVE and bought a PS3 strictly for Dust, yea i have an issue with players such as that. Im not saying you are one of them but many of the comments you make seem to lead me to that same conclusion. First, thanks for clearing that up. Second, I never bought a PS3 just for Dust. I have been playing PlayStation games since the PS2 and played a ton of games that are mostly shooters. I also played shooters on the original Xbox console. You know, that big black ugly box with a giant X on it when Halo: Combat Evolved came out? I was also one of many people who observed certain trends in the market as recalls came in with every new console being initially released and see how my friends reacted. I based my experience and knowledge off of that. But as you hinted, there have been recent changes in the market that can make my previous observation obsolete. The PS4 may still take a while to replace at least half of the PS3s that are already out there, but considering the $399 price tag, it may not take so long as expected since money is the primary deciding factor in selecting consoles.


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