DUST Search - How do you feel about BPOs?

Maken Tosch wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

Geth Massredux wrote:

Zero Harpuia wrote:

The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all.

Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now.

Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it.

So are you mad that there are BPO's in the game... Where are you going with this? Its a BPO, why complain and ***** about it... get over it

- GETH

I'm not mad about BPOs, I just think that having an infinite supply of something is a bad concept for the heavy risk-v-reward system EVE relies on to run its markets, and it will negatively impact Standard and Militia production.

Again, once the secondary market opens up, players will be able to purchase the BPOs with ISK from other players while still allowing CCP to profit so long as the variety of BPOs is kept to a minimum. There is a reason why we don't see free tanks or free dropships anymore and a legit reason why we don't see BPOs for advanced and proto gear.

Of course, the vast majority of the profits for CCP will come from the constant consumption of non-BPO gear that are constantly lost in every match. This will probably make up a large part of the secondary market in the future compared to BPOs.

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Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:55:00 - [1] - Quote The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all. Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now. Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it.
Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Orion Empire 425	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:59:00 - [2] - Quote BPOs should simply be "color scheme modules" that you fit to otherwise normally purchased (and later, manuactured) suits as you wish. This circumvents all impact on economy and industry once those arrive and would allow for those fancy colors to be used on ADV and PRO suits/gear aswell. Ideally there should be nothing gameplay relevant at all that can simply come out of thin air. That's just not how New Eden works for the most part.
Syther Shadows The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 159	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:03:00 - [3] - Quote it would be cool if at the end of the match you got a little bit of each resource in eve and you needed to use them to build adv+ suits and you could buy resources with isk or sell them and if you wanted a factional suit it would be a high resource cost like 5,000 tritanum or stuff like that would be awesome ~
EternalRMG ZionTCD 302	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:08:00 - [4] - Quote You cant apply the same BPO mechanics of EVE in Dust why? Because we gather no minerals, we cant sell anything, we cant explore anything, we can only do one thing Kill Eachother. In dust we die everytime we play, we die really often, In eve you if youre stupid or go to 0.0 with tier 1 ships (and not prepared) In dust BPOs have to be unlimited otherwise they would be plain stupid In EVE the have to have a cost otherwise it would be stupid and the market would be flooded with BPC for a insanely cheap price
Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:10:00 - [5] - Quote Syther Shadows wrote: it would be cool if at the end of the match you got a little bit of each resource in eve and you needed to use them to build adv+ suits and you could buy resources with isk or sell them and if you wanted a factional suit it would be a high resource cost like 5,000 tritanum or stuff like that would be awesome ~ Personally I think we'd need a new set of resources, partially to keep large EVE alliances from owning DUST mercs with fleets of Hulks, and partially because it says in the description of Tritanium that the metal is useless within atmospheres and I'll be damned before I let CCP forget that :3 As for Malkai, I agree with you and have heard the 'BPOs as Pallette Swaps' argument before, but we would need a AURUM refund before that change. I can only think of the rage that it would produce if everyone with 'free suits' suddenly just had fancy paintjobs.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:13:00 - [6] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: You cant apply the same BPO mechanics of EVE in Dust why? Because we gather no minerals, we cant sell anything, we cant explore anything, we can only do one thing Kill Eachother. In dust we die everytime we play, we die really often, In eve you if youre stupid or go to 0.0 with tier 1 ships (and not prepared) In dust BPOs have to be unlimited otherwise they would be plain stupid In EVE the have to have a cost otherwise it would be stupid and the market would be flooded with BPC for a insanely cheap price We do have a resource at this very moment, and we call it ISK. The BPO should not remove your expenditure of ISK, but it should mitigate it somewhat. Make the BPO an investment rather than a replacement, save a quarter of something's value in ISK, technically every four uses you get one use free. Something like that.
Wombat in combat Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 42	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:14:00 - [7] - Quote I'm fine with BPOs as they are right now, standard only gear. Just as long they don't make standard BPOs for tanks and dropships.
Cody Sietz Tritan's Onslaught 226	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:16:00 - [8] - Quote They are perfect as is. We need one for each race and suit variation.
Vanadis Radort Core Industry. Insidious Empire 6	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:29:00 - [9] - Quote Dude, they are just doing money.... And a big error. Cause one day they will delete BPOs from the market (Or Lottery like BPO Tech2 on EvE) and people who paid at the good time have a big big big help... Like the BPOs Tech 2 they don't will delete it from players stuff... And actualy BPOs Tech 2 destroyed the EvE industry and we can't play as "researcher" due to that...
Ferren Devarri ARES.inc 34	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:36:00 - [10] - Quote They should probably add non-AUR bpo's for militia gear, since it's really bargain-bin material anyway and the default loadouts are free as-is anyway. STD, ADV, and Proto gear shouldn't have BPO's (although I'm a little late to the party for standard), since this is where you get into the risk/reward of outfitting for your skill and expected rewards. Equipment brought into a match is a wager, and should be a wager. Once you get a feel for the game and your skill level, you shouldn't have too much of an issue cutting profit using standard gear. If not, you probably should back off into the free militia stuff. Once you start with vehicles, advanced, and prototype gear, the stakes get higher. None of these should ever be 'free', since this undermines the risk/reward metagame. In a risk vs reward sense, it should be a no brainer that if you're getting slaughtered by pubstompers, you don't have much to lose by whipping out the milita gear and go with a 'no money down' approach.

Malkai Inos Opus Arcana Orion Empire 427	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:40:00 - [11] - Quote EternalRMG wrote: You cant apply the same BPO mechanics of EVE in Dust why? Because we gather no minerals, we cant sell anything, we cant explore anything, we can only do one thing Kill Eachother. In dust we die everytime we play, we die really often, In eve you if youre stupid or go to 0.0 with tier 1 ships (and not prepared) In dust BPOs have to be unlimited otherwise they would be plain stupid In EVE the have to have a cost otherwise it would be stupid and the market would be flooded with BPC for a insanely cheap price I'm not shure how helpful this is but, assuming a plex price (20$ from CCP) of 530m ISK (reasonably close to the current jita price), a basic STD suit (6k ISK) would break even after about 40k odd uses and since specialized suits, for whatever reason, are approx. halve that this number gets even more rediculous for them. This means that, for all intends and purposes, BPOs are not worth their money unless you plan to play for the better part of decade and that from a financial standpoint they are already "stupid". CCP can and should implement EVE/Dust trading reasonably soon and when that happens people are bound to realize that BPOs are both uneconomic for most mercs and not more than a potential problem for industrialists. That's why I believe that actual BPOs should behave just like in EVE with production times and ISK/resource cost and that the current incarnation of BPOs are not justifiable in the long run. Let's not forget that it should be easy for CCP to take the current ISK prices of all gear as a base and set the resource and production costs appropriately to allow the economy to undercut these prices so that we all get more stuff for our iskies. The prospect of EVE and Dust forming one coherent economy is one of the USPs of Dust 514 and CCP should really aim to do this right on the first time as to not damage the existing EVE economy. As for refunds. Yes, this has to be figured out but if my above calculation is correct current BPOs are really not as valuable as their unlimited nature suggests so we could figure something out.
Gideon McAllistar HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 14	Posted - 2013.06.23 15:36:00 - [12] - Quote We need to have EVE's player driven market put in soon so that there will be ISK purchasable BPO's. Ultimately what you bought with real currency can be purchased by ISK and made by EVE players which you can sell for big money as if you bought Dust's version of PLEX, give it to a buddy, or make use of it. Current variations of suits are simple re-colors. I think they should have their own look and variants of the same grade of weapon/ suit/ equipment should have their own appearance and not just color. We should be able to recolor everything we own and put our own decal over them of our corp logo or whatever logo or symbol we choose of whatever color(s).' Maybe that's asking too much, but its certainly better than what we have now.
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 985	Posted - 2013.06.23 15:48:00 - [13] - Quote Player market will solve any issues, I would think. Edit-any issues regarding AUR only items.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 80	Posted - 2013.06.23 15:53:00 - [14] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: BPOs should simply be "color scheme modules" that you fit to otherwise normally purchased (and later, manufactured) suits as you wish. This circumvents all impact on economy and industry once those arrive and would allow for those fancy colors to be used on ADV and PRO suits/gear aswell. Ideally there should be nothing gameplay relevant at all that can simply come out of thin air. That's just not how New Eden works for the most part. ^^^ If I'm honest this is the ideal way to do BPOs, ie as skins. However, the greedy ass in me likes having a Standard fit that costs 0 ISK to zerg in. Having any BPOs higher than Standard would be a bad idea.
Jin Robot Foxhound Corporation General Tso's Alliance 985	Posted - 2013.06.23 15:55:00 - [15] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: BPOs should simply be "color scheme modules" that you fit to otherwise normally purchased (and later, manufactured) suits as you wish. This circumvents all impact on economy and industry once those arrive and would allow for those fancy colors to be used on ADV and PRO suits/gear aswell. Ideally there should be nothing gameplay relevant at all that can simply come out of thin air. That's just not how New Eden works for the most part. ^^^ If I'm honest this is the ideal way to do BPOs, ie as skins. However, the greedy ass in me likes having a Standard fit that costs 0 ISK to zerg in. Having any BPOs higher than Standard would be a bad idea. Bad is not a strong enough adjective to describe that.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2814	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:10:00 - [16] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all. Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now. Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it. I'm sort of happy with the way they currently work. So long as there are not too many BPOs. Also, standard BPOs is kind of pushing it. Let's hope they don't go any further. I generally treat them as fallback items in case I have to tighten my belt whenever my wallet runs dry. In regards to guidelines, this is New Eden. Anything is considered fair game. Although I'm not sure about sniping from MCCs part. That's something I'm having trouble trying to decide whether to agree or disagree with. Besides that, players should be able to do as they please with whatever is given to them. People do that in Eve Online all the time anyways. Look at ChribbraX with his Veldnaught in Amarr. He's mining... in a dreadnaught... meant for siege warfare... in high sec. Currently, I don't like seeing the BPOs as AUR only. However, CCP did mention last year that they intend to one day open the secondary market and allow players to sell AUR items to other players for ISK the same way Eve Online players do already with PLEX and vanity items. CCP will still make money because at least one player has to constantly purchase the AUR item with cash to be able to keep the supply in the market sustained. This will also create wild variations in prices in the market as players negotiated or estimate the buying/selling value of the AUR items based on the laws of supply and demand.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2814	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:17:00 - [17] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Syther Shadows wrote: it would be cool if at the end of the match you got a little bit of each resource in eve and you needed to use them to build adv+ suits and you could buy resources with isk or sell them and if you wanted a factional suit it would be a high resource cost like 5,000 tritanum or stuff like that would be awesome ~ Personally I think we'd need a new set of resources, partially to keep large EVE alliances from owning DUST mercs with fleets of Hulks, and partially because it says in the description of Tritanium that the metal is useless within atmospheres and I'll be damned before I let CCP forget that :3. Actually, there are already resources in the planets that are only accessible via planets that Eve Online players need for the production and operation of player-owned structures. These are things you normally get via planetary interaction. If Eve Online players and Dust players were to be given a chance to work together via this already-established mechanic that's been around since the Tyrannis Expansion, then we can see Dust players being able to negotiate with Eve players to make sure they don't get shafted. Either way, Dust players should be the ones to provide the materials in some way while Eve players do the production since Eve players have already established a solid system of wholesale and manufacturing at incredibly efficient rates.
Geth Massredux Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 411	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:24:00 - [18] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all. Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now. Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it. So are you mad that there are BPO's in the game... Where are you going with this? Its a BPO, why complain and ***** about it... get over it - GETH
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 208	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:24:00 - [19] - Quote Realistically they should have started as BPO's being unique skins rather than being actual gear. However, for the BPO gear that currently exists or CCP creates in the future I think will need to stay. My reason for this is that beyond annoying the players who bought it and use it you also have the problem of corporate reputation. That is to say that this F2P game will be funded via people using real money to buy stuff and if CCP gets a reputation for completely altering the items purchased to the point that they can no longer be used for the purpose they were bought then people will be less willing to spend any money on the game again and new players learning this will be less willing to spend any money at all. For example take the idea of BPO skins. I actually suggested this idea as a means of making money a while back and I expect others suggested it even earlier. You could have corporate colours, owned by the corp, and can be only used by players who are currently a member of that corp. You could have unique colour schemes that individual players can buy and be the only one to use it. Then there are themed skins e.g. A superman theme or a dragon design on the suit that could be bought by multiple players and costs less than the unique scheme. Beyond this you have the whole environment colour schemes like day/night, desert, and snow camo schemes etc. Now you spend your money on these BPO skins and CCP decides a year later that these skins are to graphic intensive and now you can only wear your BPO skin in your quarters and not on the warbarge or in battle where others can see it. How would you feel and would you be more worried about spending money in the future?
Rogatien Merc Ill Omens EoN. 96	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:53:00 - [20] - Quote Jin Robot wrote: Player market will solve any issues, I would think. Edit-any issues regarding AUR only items. This. BPOs are fine. Great for grinding ISK for a few months and then you never use that **** again.

Ynned Ivanova Haul Ass Transportation 11	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:03:00 - [21] - Quote Its a free to play game, the people buying AUR and thus BPOs/AUR items enable the free loading scrubs to continue playing this great game. Put up or shut up.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:28:00 - [22] - Quote Geth Massredux wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all. Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now. Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it. So are you mad that there are BPO's in the game... Where are you going with this? Its a BPO, why complain and ***** about it... get over it - GETH I'm not mad about BPOs, I just think that having an infinite supply of something is a bad concept for the heavy risk-v-reward system EVE relies on to run its markets, and it will negatively impact Standard and Militia production.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:39:00 - [23] - Quote Ynned Ivanova wrote: Its a free to play game, the people buying AUR and thus BPOs/AUR items enable the free loading scrubs to continue playing this great game. Put up or shut up. This does not excuse the BPO being far too different from anything else, and removing the aspect of risk. Furthermore they remove the ability to 'siege' a district when and if DUST mercs have to physically move weapons throughout the stars. Just install a BPO and done.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2822	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:59:00 - [24] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all. Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now. Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it. So are you mad that there are BPO's in the game... Where are you going with this? Its a BPO, why complain and ***** about it... get over it - GETH I'm not mad about BPOs, I just think that having an infinite supply of something is a bad concept for the heavy risk-v-reward system EVE relies on to run its markets, and it will negatively impact Standard and Militia production. Again, once the secondary market opens up, players will be able to purchase the BPOs with ISK from other players while still allowing CCP to profit so long as the variety of BPOs is kept to a minimum. There is a reason why we don't see free tanks or free dropships anymore and a legit reason why we don't see BPOs for advanced and proto gear. Of course, the vast majority of the profits for CCP will come from the constant consumption of non-BPO gear that are constantly lost in every match. This will probably make up a large part of the secondary market in the future compared to BPOs.
Kaze Eyrou ROGUE SPADES EoN. 281	Posted - 2013.06.23 20:02:00 - [25] - Quote Rogatien Merc wrote: Jin Robot wrote: Player market will solve any issues, I would think. Edit-any issues regarding AUR only items. This. BPOs are fine. Great for grinding ISK for a few months and then you never use that **** again. This pretty much.
Zero Harpuia WarRavens League of Infamy 526	Posted - 2013.06.23 21:28:00 - [26] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: Geth Massredux wrote: Zero Harpuia wrote: The topic is the question, provide your answer. Are you happy with the way BPOs work, or would you prefer that they operated differently, or maybe even not at all? Are there guidelines CCP should follow for them, or is anything free game? ANything you can think of in regards to BPOs, anything at all. Personally, I dislike the idea that BPO are AURUM only, and that they are not EVE like. In EVE, a BPO just means that you won't lose the Blueprint, not that you have infinite copies of whatever is on the paper. You still need to pony up the components and labor costs. I'd be fine with DUST BPOs if they allowed you to buy copies of that item anywhere regardless of local market availability once the player market hits, but they would still cost a fair deal of ISK(or minerals if there ends up being some new DUST mineral/mining thingy, whatever happens), possibly the standardized prices we have now. Also, nothing above Militia level modules if BPOs are kept at current functionality, Standard level stuff like the MAG tribute suits is already pushing it. So are you mad that there are BPO's in the game... Where are you going with this? Its a BPO, why complain and ***** about it... get over it - GETH I'm not mad about BPOs, I just think that having an infinite supply of something is a bad concept for the heavy risk-v-reward system EVE relies on to run its markets, and it will negatively impact Standard and Militia production. Again, once the secondary market opens up, players will be able to purchase the BPOs with ISK from other players while still allowing CCP to profit so long as the variety of BPOs is kept to a minimum. There is a reason why we don't see free tanks or free dropships anymore and a legit reason why we don't see BPOs for advanced and proto gear. Of course, the vast majority of the profits for CCP will come from the constant consumption of non-BPO gear that are constantly lost in every match. This will probably make up a large part of the secondary market in the future compared to BPOs. Allowing the purchase of BPO with ISK will be a given, but that is not the issue being addressed. No matter who owns the BPO it remains a fountain of infinite X, whether it was bought with AURUM or ISK.


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