DUST Search - ===[Bring Back Skirmish 1.0]===

Maken Tosch wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Skirmish 1.0 may have been fun, but it was broken as ****.

My team pushes forward, takes out the defense relays, and rolls straight toward the outpost within the first 5 minutes.

The enemy team drops in a bunch of HAVs, and everyone else pulls AV weapons.

They shoot at the MCC.

They win.

That is just one example of how the mode wasn't the "God Mode" everyone says it was, and yes, I was there to play it.

Also, if you cleared the relays fast enough, massing AV to shred the MCC was the ONLY counter left to you, because the enemy team could just sit back in the canyons and laugh as all three null cannons failed to do enough damage to take it down before it docked with the outpost.

I'm not saying I didn't have fun with the mode, but it was far from perfect. There were threads about it being broken back during Replication, if you'll recall.

I can agree on that. But if Skirmish 1.0 were to be brought back the same way, it would be different given the current changes we have since the last time we saw it.

1. Dropships no longer act like aerial bumper cars that crush mercs like a hot iron on a roach.
2. Players can no longer directly damage the MCC regardless if they use installations or HAVs.
3. Forge guns and swarm launchers are no longer the OP weapons they once were during Replication.
4. There is a current limit to the number of clones you can use up before losing the match.

There are also some minor changes that can be made to the game mode.

1. Buff up defense relays to take longer to destroy or make them invulnerable until fully hacked.
2. MCC floor shield could not be shot through so that snipers in MCCs will be useless. Don't know why CCP allow this back in.

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Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2795	Posted - 2013.06.22 16:02:00 - [1] - Quote Dev Blog by CCP Frame: http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/06/developing-game-mode-variations/ Quote: There have also been major changes to Skirmish Mode. Players who have been with us since closed beta will remember that Skirmish used to involve a team escorting a Mobile Command Center (MCC) across a map while a rival team attempted to stop them, a setup now commonly called GÇ£Skirmish 1.0GÇ¥. Unfortunately, this mode was not as balanced as we would have liked. At the time it was deployed, the fittings and skills players could select, and the randomization of outposts in each battle, led to uneven gameplay between the teams. Players let us know, so we created a version of Skirmish Mode (commonly called GÇ£Skirmish 2.0GÇ¥) with more symmetry among teams. Anyone who has played DUST 514 should be familiar with this newer setup. There are now two MCCs floating above a battlefield, launching barrages of concentrated firepower at each other. Players rush to capture NULL cannons to damage their enemyGÇÖs MCC as quickly as possible while preventing their rivals from doing the same. CCP, who were those players that let you know? Those players were just wrong. Skirmish 1.0 was a very balanced game. I never understood why anyone in the forums thought they were unbalanced. The game mode encouraged a lot of teamwork, we had to move with a purpose regardless of which side we were on, and it allowed the defenders a chance to regroup and mobilize without getting too redlined because they had an entire base to heavily guard and protect WITHIN THEIR OWN REDLINE WHERE THE NULL CANNONS WERE!!! I do recall seeing a handful of players in the forums whining and QQing about the original game mode claiming that defending the objectives were difficult but they completely ignored the fact that they had every chance to establish a solid fortification while the attackers were busy trying to deal with the defense relays. I also do recall similar players complaining about how hard it was to attack. But those players were wrong as well because they were just not working together as they should have. On top of that, there were plenty of places to flank the enemy but noooooooo they just wanted to run-n-gun like in CoD out in the open for snipers to shoot at and at the time snipers were crap so that's saying something about the unit cohesion of the players. Let's also not forget that during this time in which Skirmish 1.0 existed, players were unable to squad up, unable to form corporations let alone group up with alliances and qsync, and there were no voice comms available. The only reason Skirmish 1.0 seemed unbalanced to some was due to the missing features I just mentioned. I bet you 500 million ISK (or one PLEX) from my Eve Online character that if the above-mentioned features were available at the time, then Skirmish 1.0 would have been loved by every player... even the whiners would have loved it because then they would rely on green dots rather than random blueberries. I bet this feature would also make PC battles more interesting. So on behalf of all of the players on this community who want Skirmish 1.0, I ask CCP to please bring this game mode back. It was fun, it was balanced, I saw no reason why it had to go. If anyone here agrees, put a +1 in your reply and scream HOOAH!!!!
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2795	Posted - 2013.06.22 16:16:00 - [2] - Quote Reserved
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 121	Posted - 2013.06.22 16:17:00 - [3] - Quote Thanks for putting up this thread. I also wish for the return of Skirmish 1.0. The map design back then left room for improvement and was cause for much concern, but the game-mode itself worked very well. The main improvement of Skirmish 1.0 was the linearity of play. Right now, on a five point map, when you are at one objective you have four other objectives to go to next. This makes players scatter across the map a lot and doesn't lead to intense firefights. That's why we appear to run across the map in a random fashion all the time. A skirmish 1.0-style of map could funnel the players into a hard fight over a very small amount of space that shifts forwards and backwards as one or the other side gains the upper hand.
Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 95	Posted - 2013.06.22 16:20:00 - [4] - Quote +1 This was the way DUST was meant to be played
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2796	Posted - 2013.06.22 16:42:00 - [5] - Quote Come on. I'm sure we have more people than this. This is a very valuable part of what we want as a community, is it not?
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 158	Posted - 2013.06.22 17:08:00 - [6] - Quote I think Skirmish 1.0 would be something that could be added as a secondary Skirmish mode just as Ambush and Ambush OMS are set up. We could use a bit of variety and the Skirmish 1.0 game mode is a good setup to learn defense and offense on as it forces you to get better with either starting at an advantage or not. (Watch out for Proto Stomp QQ more on skirm 1.0)
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2797	Posted - 2013.06.22 17:31:00 - [7] - Quote Draco Cerberus wrote: I think Skirmish 1.0 would be something that could be added as a secondary Skirmish mode just as Ambush and Ambush OMS are set up. We could use a bit of variety and the Skirmish 1.0 game mode is a good setup to learn defense and offense on as it forces you to get better with either starting at an advantage or not. (Watch out for Proto Stomp QQ more on skirm 1.0) If CCP fixes matchmaking by then, the QQ part would be a non issue.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2801	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:01:00 - [8] - Quote NO! I will not let this thread be drowned into the second page!!!
Wombat in combat Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 40	Posted - 2013.06.23 00:08:00 - [9] - Quote At Fanfest round tables there was a roaring demand to bring Skirmish 1.0 back. CCP Praetorian then said "Okay, let's bring it back".
McFurious TeamPlayers EoN. 141	Posted - 2013.06.23 01:36:00 - [10] - Quote +1 I've been hearing about this mode since I got into closed beta but never got to experience it. It sounds like the quintessential Dust 514 gameplay mode and I want it.

Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2803	Posted - 2013.06.23 01:48:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for the support, guys. I appreciate it. For those of you who are not aware how Skirmish 1.0 works, here is a step-by-step process on how it went in any given match. 1. Match starts with an attacking MCC slowly advancing on the far side of the map away from the target outpost or city while the attacking mercs attempt to hack and destroy 3 defense relays before their MCC's shields run out. 2. At the same time, the match starts with the defending players having NO MCC on their side but do have a city with 2-3 null cannons located FAR BEHIND the redline where they can organize and fortify their position before the defense relays get taken out. 3. Defending side hope to keep the attacking side from destroying their defense relays. 4. If all 3 defense relays go down before the shields do, then the MCC has a chance to advance further and dock up over the outpost or city as the redline retreats back and exposes the city. But it needs to dock up before its armor runs out. 5. Attacking mercs do everything they can to try to capture the null cannons within the city. 6. Defending side fortifies itself within the city in an attempt to keep the enemy from coming in.
True Adamance PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 219	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:12:00 - [12] - Quote DUDE YOU MAKE ME WANT THIS I WANT IT!
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2052	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:20:00 - [13] - Quote Skirmish 1.0 may have been fun, but it was broken as ****. My team pushes forward, takes out the defense relays, and rolls straight toward the outpost within the first 5 minutes. The enemy team drops in a bunch of HAVs, and everyone else pulls AV weapons. They shoot at the MCC. They win. That is just one example of how the mode wasn't the "God Mode" everyone says it was, and yes, I was there to play it. Also, if you cleared the relays fast enough, massing AV to shred the MCC was the ONLY counter left to you, because the enemy team could just sit back in the canyons and laugh as all three null cannons failed to do enough damage to take it down before it docked with the outpost. I'm not saying I didn't have fun with the mode, but it was far from perfect. There were threads about it being broken back during Replication, if you'll recall.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2806	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:41:00 - [14] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Skirmish 1.0 may have been fun, but it was broken as ****. My team pushes forward, takes out the defense relays, and rolls straight toward the outpost within the first 5 minutes. The enemy team drops in a bunch of HAVs, and everyone else pulls AV weapons. They shoot at the MCC. They win. That is just one example of how the mode wasn't the "God Mode" everyone says it was, and yes, I was there to play it. Also, if you cleared the relays fast enough, massing AV to shred the MCC was the ONLY counter left to you, because the enemy team could just sit back in the canyons and laugh as all three null cannons failed to do enough damage to take it down before it docked with the outpost. I'm not saying I didn't have fun with the mode, but it was far from perfect. There were threads about it being broken back during Replication, if you'll recall. I can agree on that. But if Skirmish 1.0 were to be brought back the same way, it would be different given the current changes we have since the last time we saw it. 1. Dropships no longer act like aerial bumper cars that crush mercs like a hot iron on a roach. 2. Players can no longer directly damage the MCC regardless if they use installations or HAVs. 3. Forge guns and swarm launchers are no longer the OP weapons they once were during Replication. 4. There is a current limit to the number of clones you can use up before losing the match. There are also some minor changes that can be made to the game mode. 1. Buff up defense relays to take longer to destroy or make them invulnerable until fully hacked. 2. MCC floor shield could not be shot through so that snipers in MCCs will be useless. Don't know why CCP allow this back in.
A B Ablabab The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 14	Posted - 2013.06.23 02:49:00 - [15] - Quote I'm all for more game modes! this++
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. CRONOS. 2052	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:20:00 - [16] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Skirmish 1.0 may have been fun, but it was broken as ****. My team pushes forward, takes out the defense relays, and rolls straight toward the outpost within the first 5 minutes. The enemy team drops in a bunch of HAVs, and everyone else pulls AV weapons. They shoot at the MCC. They win. That is just one example of how the mode wasn't the "God Mode" everyone says it was, and yes, I was there to play it. Also, if you cleared the relays fast enough, massing AV to shred the MCC was the ONLY counter left to you, because the enemy team could just sit back in the canyons and laugh as all three null cannons failed to do enough damage to take it down before it docked with the outpost. I'm not saying I didn't have fun with the mode, but it was far from perfect. There were threads about it being broken back during Replication, if you'll recall. I can agree on that. But if Skirmish 1.0 were to be brought back the same way, it would be different given the current changes we have since the last time we saw it. 1. Dropships no longer act like aerial bumper cars that crush mercs like a hot iron on a roach. 2. Players can no longer directly damage the MCC regardless if they use installations or HAVs. 3. Forge guns and swarm launchers are no longer the OP weapons they once were during Replication. 4. There is a current limit to the number of clones you can use up before losing the match. There are also some minor changes that can be made to the game mode. 1. Buff up defense relays to take longer to destroy or make them invulnerable until fully hacked. 2. MCC floor shield could not be shot through so that snipers in MCCs will be useless. Don't know why CCP allow this back in. I'm not sure why they went with a one-way shield either. Worst feature of spawn rooms in Planetside 2. Just encourages camping.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 492	Posted - 2013.06.23 03:22:00 - [17] - Quote Quote: . . .So on behalf of all of the players on this community who want Skirmish 1.0, I ask CCP to please bring this game mode back. . . If anyone here agrees, put a +1 in your reply and scream HOOAH!!!! +1 and HOOAH!!!! EDIT: Shame we don't have any gameplay footage of Skirmish 1.0, because we were under the NDA then... If we could only show the Open Beta vets, and new players exactly what it was like....
castba Penguin's March 11	Posted - 2013.06.23 07:26:00 - [18] - Quote Only been around since early open beta, but would live to play Skirmish 1.0. Seems like a logical fit for FW battles.
Davey Newcome Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2013.06.23 07:30:00 - [19] - Quote 2 examples of what the OP is talking about Issues Solutions Thx
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2814	Posted - 2013.06.23 15:43:00 - [20] - Quote castba wrote: Only been around since early open beta, but would live to play Skirmish 1.0. Seems like a logical fit for FW battles. I know. It's one of those things that had you strategizing a lot. If the attackers were smart, assaults, logis, and heavies would slowly advance together as a group from one defense relay to another while the scouts picked off any snipers perching themselves in the area while creating diversions. If the defenders were smart, they would focus on defending at least two of the three relays while a small portion of their team builds up a fortification within their city setting up traps and blockades in case they fail to protect the relays. This game mode was also done with a particular map that you weren't around to know about but got removed due to memory leaks. http://dust514.com/news/blog/2011/11/vehicular-dynamics-and-mayhem-1-1/ If you look at the background of the image of the tank in the blog, you will notice some tiny plateaus in the back. That was the map we use to play Skirmish 1.0 in. It offered multiple routes to flank your enemy, multiple vantage points for snipers, plenty of cover for tanks and groups to move around in, etc. However, as I stated, there were memory leaks. On top of that, part of the terrain got you stuck or constantly interrupted your sprint.

Meeko Fent Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 100	Posted - 2013.06.23 16:20:00 - [21] - Quote Wombat in combat wrote: At Fanfest round tables there was a roaring demand to bring Skirmish 1.0 back. CCP Praetorian then said "Okay, let's bring it back". Let it be Written, Let it Be so... Thou Awesometh Game Mode of Skirmish 1.0 shouldeth return, and it shalt rule under thy shining sun and Raining Clouds. The People who got Skirmish 1.0 removed had to play on only 1 map, and with these new Niche weapons and new Maps, the "Map Imbalances" can be fixed, and a Map can Just be taken out for Rebalancing the Sides, so this game mode stands a Larger Chance of Surviving, w/o being called Unbalanced. It was the Maps that were imbalanced, not the Game Mode.
IR Scifi Silver Talon Corporation 37	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:11:00 - [22] - Quote Yeah there were definitely some major issues with it but it was a hell of a lot of fun. Setting sniper positions to cover your people running to make the hack, firing like mad from the last remaining rail gun trying to blow up the MCC before it docked, crossing the no mans land to get to the city, sneaking behind enemy lines and turning a blaster turret on them all.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2816	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:13:00 - [23] - Quote IR Scifi wrote: Yeah there were definitely some major issues with it but it was a hell of a lot of fun. Setting sniper positions to cover your people running to make the hack, firing like mad from the last remaining rail gun trying to blow up the MCC before it docked, crossing the no mans land to get to the city, sneaking behind enemy lines and turning a blaster turret on them all. Don't forget the derpships derping.
Tahir Maru Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 6	Posted - 2013.06.23 17:49:00 - [24] - Quote +1 Skirmish 1.0 was great and with balancing changes since then (see Mobius Wyvern's post and Maken Tosch's reply) would be rather enjoyable. The new Skirmish is fun too but the old mode was quite the thing.
Telleth DUST University Ivy League 60	Posted - 2013.06.23 18:45:00 - [25] - Quote This sounds quite awesome with lots of potential for increased usage of tactics. Would love to see this brought back, and we could then hammer out what needs doing to balance it. I wouldn't mind playing a broken version for a couple of months to figure out how to balance it. Could always swap back to skirmish 2.0 if I were getting overly frustrated. Also saw a good idea in another post about using a version of this for PVE. If it favors one side, give it to the npc for survival mode, then to the players for seek and destroy mode.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 2817	Posted - 2013.06.23 18:50:00 - [26] - Quote Once again, thanks for the support. If you're in a player-run corp, let your buddies know so we can keep this discussion going. I want the Devs to see this as clearly as possible.
Jathniel G I A N T EoN. 492	Posted - 2013.06.23 18:52:00 - [27] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Once again, thanks for the support. If you're in a player-run corp, let your buddies know so we can keep this discussion going. I want the Devs to see this as clearly as possible. I'll ask some of my guys to drop a +1 for you too.
IceShifter Childhaspawn DUST University Ivy League 68	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:12:00 - [28] - Quote +1 and Bump
Arcadash A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 0	Posted - 2013.06.23 19:49:00 - [29] - Quote +1
Draco Cerberus Purgatorium of the Damned League of Infamy 158	Posted - 2013.06.23 21:59:00 - [30] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: Draco Cerberus wrote: I think Skirmish 1.0 would be something that could be added as a secondary Skirmish mode just as Ambush and Ambush OMS are set up. We could use a bit of variety and the Skirmish 1.0 game mode is a good setup to learn defense and offense on as it forces you to get better with either starting at an advantage or not. (Watch out for Proto Stomp QQ more on skirm 1.0) If CCP fixes matchmaking by then, the QQ part would be a non issue. I've posted on this thread about a solution I think would be perfect check it out: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=972461#post972461



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